Dragon Age: The Veilguard, FC 25 Underperform, Force EA to Lower Financial Forecast

It's not looking good for BioWare. 1.5 million "engaged" users (sales) isn't going to cut it for a game that was in a troubled development cycle for so long.

When you realise BioWare's last critical and commercial success was probably Inquisition in 2014 — Mass Effect Legendary Edition aside — you can't help but feel like the studio's on borrowed time.

Deserved can't stand EA despicable company

DAV seems to have done OK, considering 1) the sales Ive heard for DAI, and 2) the various rubbish and ridiculous hate crusades against it at launch. 2nd best game last year (Astro was best imo).

No Idea about FC25 - was this a bad year (I dont play it so dont know), or are EA doing a Square Enix and expecting too much?

Edit: Clarified Astro was my top game last year following reply a few comments below.

Fifa players saw FC 25 and said "No. Me wait for Fifa. Fifa is the gud futbol," lol.

@Rich33 your comment makes Astro look worse.

@ShogunRok With the way Bioware has been shuffled around within EA, I am sure it's not the studio it used to be.

It probably lost some key people with the Bioware Mythic merge...and then subsequent split 3 years later.

Considering how much Veilguard was shoved in our faces it absolutely is a sorry number. Heck I think even my TV was reminding me to go buy Veilguard and I had never seen game ads on there before.

I wasn’t expecting Veilguard to be an action JRPG but I had a lot of fun playing it and it’s my second favourite game of the series. It’s disappointing to see that it didn’t do well but the market for single player games is diminishing and a sizeable chunk of the remaining audience seems to be miserable c***, so not that surprising I guess.

Guessing FC25 didn't sell as well as FC24 then? Have people finally given up on buying annual sports sims or is this one just terrible compared to previous years?

EA was great for a few years during the PS3 era. Dead Space, Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect, DA:O, BF Bad Company etc. I think it was the success of Modern Warfare and them trying to chase that money that led to deteriorating quality since.

@Rich33 Huh, Inquisition sold 12 million copies so I'm not sure what you heard.

Veilguard is definitely a massive flop. That 1.5 million is actually players not just sales meaning it included all the people who played it on EA Play and it was obviously an expensive game to develop that took a long time to make and burn rate is high for AAA games made in the US.

A multiplatform big budget AAA RPG from an incredibly popular franchise getting those terrible sales is a massive flop no matter how you try to spin it.

@Reform I mean 1.5 million is quite a sizable number by any metric. "Modern audience" numbers would be something like Dustborn or Unknown 9.

What made Origins, and even DA2, memorable experiences for me were the companions. Morrigan, Leliana, Isabela, Anders and Oghren were memorable characters who stood out, made you care what happened to them. The Veilguard companions, for lack of a better term, suck. They're all as inoffensive as possible and I don't care a lick about any of them. There's nothing wrong with having idealogy in games, but this one feels like it's REALLY pushing an agenda, and it takes away from the experience for me. Even though it's an agenda that I for the most part agree with.

The next DA game (if there is one) better be a massive shift back to the style of Origins or else I'll probably be done with the series. Each game, in my opinion, has been just a little bit worse than it's predecessor.

@Darylb88 A lot of people bought the game just because it has the dragon age name otherwise it probably would have done Dustborn and Unknown 9 numbers.

@Darylb88 Was this available on EA Play? If so I'd be interested to see the actual sales numbers.

@Darylb88 Dustborn and Unknown 9 were, pardon the wordplay, unknown.

Dragon Age is an established if relatively dormant IP and should have done much better given all the time and resources it required. I guess every reviewer repeating that same “return to form for BioWare” line didn’t quite pay off…

FIFA’s ‘underperforming’ because the launch gameplay was so insanely sh*t that the community weren’t even spending money on Ultimate Team. The latest patch made it play brilliantly and it looks like they’ve rolled it back partially because there were cricket scores in the nonsense eSports thing nobody cares about.

I’m sure EA will be fine though.

Announce bad news.
Stock drops.
Company and bigwigs buy up cheap stock.
Company announces massive firings.
Stock price goes up.
Company and bigwigs profit.

It’s almost like money isn’t real and the whole system is a scam.🤑

That may be it for Bioware. 😩

@Reform Always beware any game that before release continuously boasts of something other than it's gameplay. Instant red flag.

I think it's game over for both Bioware and EA. Bioware probably will be closed down sooner than later and i can see Tencent or maybe MS acquire EA.

EA used to produced solid games but those days are long gone. I guess it's the circle of life where good things aren't last forever...

I mean, what do you expect when hardcore dark rpg suddenly turn into light hearted fun adventure with wacky companion and a lesson about misgendering someone, are there not single person on EA that saw this and think "this isn't right, I don't think this is what the gamers want".

Though I haven't played it yet, since Andromeda and Anthem, it's clear the BioWare we once knew no longer exists.

Fully deserved

@PorkChopExpress you are just lying. You dont play it for free and now you claim you would pay 70? keep that EA hate rolling xD

@MrMagic ...DAV isn't or hasn't been on EA Play

A yearly FIFA underperforming? Do I believe what I am seeing? I must be in a world where some people are wising up to the annual full priced, microtransaction riddled sports title somehow! Either that or just that some other mainstream games have been taking up time and money from casual game players which would explain this dip, since that's usually how most sports titles sell anyways

I thought about this for a while and the numbers for Veilguard really aren't good for such a turbulent development. Astro Bot sold this many units in 9 weeks and that was a single console.

The EA FC sales are very surprising. But I think even yearly releases are now struggling under the forever games. EA FC may need to look at a PES style f2p/40 dollar version with annual roster updates and completely rely on Ultimate Team.

I really would encourage either fans of mass effect or action RPG’s to pick up Dragon Age. It starts of slow and as my entry to the series its lore heavy picking up from the previous game.

But it’s just fantastic and so so polished. It’s criminal how more are not picking the game up.

Between this and Prince of Persia I despair a little at sales, especially when I see the top 10 games on PlayStation be f2p rubbish live service

I said this in another article about they only sold 1.5M and they didn't believe me, now you see, Bioware in my honest opinion are cooked, Veil guard really should of been a brand new IP.

BioWare are a completely different company to the one that made ME1 to 3. They’re a shell of what they were. FIFA or whatever it’s called I don’t care about, it can do one. It’s a shame BioWare suck now but hey ho, at least we’ve got some decent devs who are working on some likely amazing games.

@LikelySatan
"your comment makes Astro look worse"
Thank you - I didnt read it like that, but I have edited to clarify Asto was my top game last year, DAV 2nd.

They make a Dragon Age game that is Dragon Age only in name and are surprised that it underperformed?

I actually enjoyed the game, but was only able to do so when I ignored it's name. It has great gameplay but the dialogue is awful and characters lack depth.

Skill Up but it best when they said: "Every interaction between companions feels like HR is in the room"

Make a Dragon Age or a new IP, but don't make a new IP pretending to be Dragon Age. It doesn't bring new people due to lack of interest in the original IP, and it distance long time fans from it.

happy to see this for Veilguard. 1.5 is even lots more than it deserves.

@Gazray
I say this in agreement with you, but the sad thing is that clearly the hate campain against this game has affected its sales numbers. (Which I still think are decent considering the circumstances).

Its a very good game indeed, which came out to decent professional reviews, yet some people allowed themselves to be swayed by others saying it (the game) had an 'agenda', when the people saying this were those that had the agenda.
Now those same people will celebrate if Bioware is shut, and we lose yet another AAA single player studio & 2 longstanding IPs.
Funnily enough, I wasnt a big Bioware fan until this game (DAI was decent), but that doesn't mean I ever wished any harm on them.

The game did have a troubled development, but the issues may well have been fixed given the game we got was so polished.

Lets hope EA consider what has gone on, if not then I hope people enjoy "DA vs ME the F2P shooter"!

Hardly surprised. Hope they all are doing press ups for their stupid decisions over the last 10+ years.

DA:V was expected to fail after they massacred it's scenario. And Fifa? ...sorry FC? maybe footbal gamers ignited their second brain cell and found out it is same game as in last few years, so they don't need to buy it.

This doesn’t bode well for the new Mass Effect which we just heard is still in the conceptualization phase… yikes

@Oram77 they really tried gaslighting you like the writing wasn't on the wall already 😂
Might as well shutter Bioware at this rate, such an inadequate studio.....

@Cherip-the-Ripper Right?!? you can't make this up if you tried.

Most DA titles sold very little at launch, so those are actually decent numbers.

That's a shame,Dragon Age is all I have been playing since Christmas,put about 40 hours into it and I'm really enjoying it.

@themightyant But it's not dishonest, I literally told you is was 1.5M before this come out, so how could I have known that I wonder...

You're right we don't know their budget, but going off it was a 10 development cycle, at point it was going t be a live service game, I going to say a budget of 300M, and with these sales figures... yeah worst selling BioWare game.

Really not sure why you are batting so hard for this game, it flopped that's that.

I don't see how it can be a surprise that DA:FailHard didn't make the numbers. It was awful, but if they had released it under a different name like CheeseAge:The Therapy Sessions then it might have done OK.

And 1.5 million user engaged doesn't equate to 1.5 million sales. It taking into account anyone who played a demo or expressed an interest, or got a free copy woth a pack etc. And it doesn't account for refunds and returns - those would have been player engagements. My guess is that the real sale figure, copies in the hands of players who paid for it and didn't refund it are way south of that.

@KingPev @themightyant According to IGN the full game was available with EA Play Pro for a while and they are most likely counting the players who tried just the 5 hour trial on just the standard EA Play as well.

https://www.ign.com/articles/dragon-age-the-veilguard-had-15-million-players-in-first-two-months-ea-expected-3-million

The game has also been on half price sales all through the holidays.

@themightyant You say you like to deal with facts and yet you provide none yourself, considering you keep asking for "sources" this sure is ironic.

@themightyant Ah I see, so you can just use a blanket statement and I quote "Peple pulling statements our their rectum", I suppose judges can find someone guilty with a mere "oh their source is wrong"

@themightyant Yes, source = the game flopped.

Wonderful news!

@Fartingale the market for single player games is decreasing? Elden ring and Dragon's Dogma say otherwise. Stop with the cope.

I finally started Veilguard last week, and so far I'm loving it — really liking how its evolved over the series, and would love to see the series continue.

@Zeldorf Dragon's Dogma 2 sold only 1 million more copies than Veilguard, so a bad example to use. For a more successful single player Capcom game... choose any Resident Evil.

@Rich33 They said it performed below expectations. It hasn't done ok.

Haven't played Veilguard yet, and FIFA can suck it.

The writing was on the wall. I think most people with any real familiarity with this industry knew. If the publisher is quiet about sales, it is usually underperforming. If the publisher says no DLC planned, that's not a good sign either. They announced that right near release. Why? Because they have the preorder numbers.They already knew.

The metadata and extrapolations you can make from third party websites like psnprofiles were pretty accurate for both Veilguard and Concord it turns out. It seems they can't really hide the sales numbers as well as they used to.

It kills me that everyone was pushing 'Veilguard is the best selling single player release on Steam' articles. Those were so transparently misleading as to be virtually false, as EA just began releasing their games on Steam.

I don't have a bone to pick with Bioware or this game. But video game journalism needs to step it up and stop doing this weird circle the wagon thing every time a game lands itself in the culture war debate. It discredits everyone.

And then you consider the (unsubstantiated but highly plausible) claims of access journalism EA engaged in when it released. Picking and choosing who to send codes to, I think they knew this game was gonna make the wrong kind of headlines. They had to know. Surely it was pegged as review bomb material from a mile away by anyone at EA who has been paying attention the last couple years. It lends credence to the selective distribution of review codes thing for me. It certainly tracks.

And all it took was one random YouTuber (SkillUp) to blow the lid off. What a world. If I want serious impressions of a game now, I go to YouTube and... that's not something I ever thought I'd say.

The one thing I'd say to temper this all is Dragon Age games tend to have a long sales tail, and I'd wager it doubles this number in the next 5-10 years. So don't sign Bioware's death warrant just yet. I mean, I wouldn't blame you if you did but there is hope is all I'm saying.

@Oram77 Over roughly the same period that Veilguard sold 1.5 million units, Jade Empire managed 500,000.
Because 500,000 is a smaller number than Veilguard, Jade Empire is closer to being "Bioware's worst performing game" than Veilguard is. I couldn't say for certain that other games performed less well- Baldurs Gate 2 taking 10 years to get to 2 million sales suggests that at the three month mark it also hadn't hit 1.5 million, but I can't tell you that for certain. Neverwinter Nights also took about 4 years to hit Veilguard's sales figures (and due to it's almost Elder Scrolls modding scene NWN has had a ridiculously long tail)
But yeah, this saddens me because Jade Empire is an amazing game and if sales figures were related to quality, it would be one of if not the best selling Bioware game.

@Darylb88
Considering the IP and the fact it was released on multiple platforms, no that number is a joke. People laughed at sales numbers for both Astro Bot and Stellar Blade, which only released on one console. They each had similar sales to DAV and neither have the legacy.

@Wiceheid Never heard of this game before, went and looked it up, and made the low sales numbers are down to two factors.

1) Was on Xbox and not the 360
2) Was a brand new IP and didn't garner enough attention

I think comparing a brand new IP game coming out in 2005 to main line entry in Dragon age, will make the sales of Jade Empire look bad. All I'm saying is everyone expected DAV to way better at launch then what it's currently doing.

@Wiceheid

I'll check out Jade Empire.

One little thought I'd add is games back then - even the best selling ones - didn't move the numbers they do today. 5 million units for a triple A game was an amazing success in the Baldur's Gate 2 days. Now, it's a common sales target for AAA titles.

Bigger market (although it has since stagnated) could explain the increasing sales expectations. 1.5 million today for an around 10-year dev cycle AAA household brand name like Dragon Age with I'm sure an insane marketing budget probably isn't what they were hoping for.

It's alright though, EA will make the money back easily with ultimate team card pack microtransactions.

@Rich33 oh, no that's how I read it lol. I'm only kidding though. The YA tone of Veilguard isn't my jam, and I do believe it may have killed the series, but meh. Too much great stuff out there anyway.

@Wazeddie22 @Andee
Really glad you are enjoying it. The combat system only got better as I got further on imo (I was playing Crow Spellblade), and its one of the only longer games I felt didnt lose 'steam' in the middle or towards the end, just a nice ebb and flow. The companion questlines are generally very good too.

I though DA Inquisition was decent enough, but this game was far superior imo - I just hope the haters dont win and we get a sequel.

@Oram77 Yes, there are reasons Jade Empire didn't sell well. But when judging the statement about Veilguard being "Bioware's worst performing game"- a statement made without caveats- all that has to be done to disprove that statement is pull out one game with worse sales figures. There can be all sorts of reasons why a game performed less well than Veilguard did, but those aren't relevant to the question of "did Jade Empire perform less well than Veilguard did". Only the number is relevant for that. But Oram, the fact that this is a Bioware action RPG from peak Bioware that you have never heard of speaks volumes as to how well it did.

I agree completely that Veilguard has done badly though, but you need extensive caveats to claim that it's "Bioware's worst performing games"- caveats that basically rule out Bioware's entire back catalogue. UnlimitedSevens point about how sales figures expectations have changed is a fair one after all. But it does mean the only meaningful comparison you can make sales figures wise is with Andromeda and Anthem (especially as Veilguards "12 million sales" figure took about a decade to get to). When you're only talking about three games from a company that's been around for a quarter of a century, statements like "Biowares worst performing game" just feel dubious to me.

@UnlimitedSevens I hope you do check out Jade Empire and that you enjoy it as much as I did!

@Rich33 Yeah, I only got around to playing DAI last year (once I knew Veilguard was coming I finally pulled the trigger on it!), and yeah i'm loving just how streamlined and efficient the devs have made to QoL things, mainly like gear/item upgrades and management — and yeah they've completely overhauled the combat, for the better in my opinion — it's a lot less automated than in 1-3 (so horses for courses I guess!) — playing a Shadow Dragon / Rogue

Only minor nitpick is that you only get two party companions, so group banter is a little limited compared to previous games.

@Wiceheid Just an FYI (not like it matters) but I wasn't the one who said the worst performing game.

@Andee
Its a long time since I played DAI, but I remember the combat was one of the things I got most tired of by the end - yet the improved system meant the total opposite in DAV - I enjoyed it more the later on I got, particularly with some of the mid to late bosses / optional bosses.

@MrMagic Like it said 1.5 million of anything is a decent number. For EA, probably not but it was more than enough for Sony with Astro Bot. I'm not arguing that the game was a financial success because it clearly was not. I was just saying that 1.5 million does not represent this "modern audience" people keep banging on about.

@Reform It wasn't on EA play for consoles. It might drop there in the future though like most EA titles. The estimate is 1.5 million sales.

@dskatter Like I mentioned previously 1.5 million of anything is a decent number. It clearly didn't hit it's financial expectations but that doesn't really matter beyond EA deciding what they want Bioware to do next. I was commenting on this "modern audience" notion which I found to be strange given we kept being told that it exists yet it is very small. I have never played a dragon age game before as I like JRPGS and i liked the world and gameplay (I didn't like the writing).

@Gamer83 The IP has been dormant quite a long time, but yeah I'm not saying it was a success, read my other replies for what I was on about.

@Darylb88 Note the wording. “Engaged,” not “sold.”

Words matter. That could be people who bought it on steam, hated it and refunded. It could mean people who got it for free via GeForce Now. It could mean the same copy gets played by two or more people after a copy gets sold and bought used.

If they actually meant sold, they’d have said sold.