Guerrilla Games is continuing to strengthen the team working on its online multiplayer adaptation of the Horizon franchise.
The game – which has never been officially announced but has been acknowledged by the studio – has an all-star team working on it, led by Rainbow Six: Siege director Simon Larouche.
But now it’s added Bungie’s former senior design lead Chris Proctor to its ranks. For those who don’t know, he’s behind some of Destiny 2’s most iconic firearms. He’ll work as a design director on Horizon Online, and will presumably have input on some of the game’s weapons.
While there’s been a number of live service games cancelled across all of Sony’s first-party studios, this is one the company seems to believe in. It’s been in development now for several years, and it must be almost ready to be officially revealed at this point.
While we have no further information, it’s not hard to imagine how an online Horizon could work. We’re imagining something like Monster Hunter, where squads of players need to work together to tie down mechanical aggressors, meticulously remove their armour parts, and ultimately bring them down.
With so many great developers contributing to the project, we’re optimistic about its outlook. Are you interested in an online adaptation of Horizon, though? Let us know in the comments section below.
[source linkedin.com, via thegamepost.com]
Comments 63
I hope its good and not another concord. Live service games have to be really,really good and the inevitable monetisation has to be acceptable to the players especially if its not f2p. I don't hate the live service model but like I said it's got to be very good and just slapping the horizon brand all over it won't be enough if the actual game is bland.
As long as Hermen is in charge of PS Studios, the Horizon IP will be pushed, regardless of its appeal.
I have hope for this one, especially if it is essentially 'Horizon Hunter'.
Do you ever have that knot in your stomach that your best friend may be into some dark <insert expletive>. There's something deeply worrying about how the Horzion franchise is increasingly being forced to become the number one IP (in terms of self-interest, not consumer interest). After the recent performance of Sony (and of Hulst), I'm not not convinced (a) that this is ever coming out - and certainly not coming out in 2025; and (b) that this will be at all successful. Given how little we know, and how much they are still hiring people to work on this (after about 7 years of production-including pre-production)... this has all the ingredients of something that will make Concord look like a work of brilliance.
I hope I'm wrong, but this has such a whiff of toxic positivity to it (and the Horizon curse), that it's worrying for the entire Sony PlayStation brand right now. Because this looks like the definition of a sunk-cost fallacy... re-writing the gold-standard of Concord. And I thought FairGame$ was going to be the new standard.
Sony - time to show and tell, or cancel it. And while you're at it... I'd suggest to stop drinking the yellow KoolAid; coz I think you might be taking the ..... well... you know.
Edit - and to actually answer the question you posed at the end... no, no I'm not interested in a co-op Monster-Hunter-lite. First off, we have the definitive MH game now (like it or not), and secondly... unless this plays nothing like Horizon, then I don't understand how this will work. The AI isn't that great, the designs are limited, and let's face it, being co-op will make a fairly straight-forward game just easy. The only thing that would make this at all interesting is if they do herd battles...where your team needs to take on LOTS of strong enemies. Just making BIGGER nastier enemies doesn't make the Horizon universe better. I'd say my least favourite part of HFW (other than the stupid races) was the arenas. But I think that's what we're looking at... with just bigger arenas and bigger (spongier) robo-dinos.... and a crap-tonne more systems that don't actually do anything except for a very small minority of players that love to engage with systems (and who are otherwise playing MH).
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare @Max_the_German I simply do not understand this narrative at all.
The series has sold millions of copies and has great reviews. People enjoy it a lot.
If you don’t want them to make more then stop engaging with it, don’t buy it, and if it’s as crap as some corners of the Internet pretend it is, it’ll go away.
No matter how “forced” its popularity is, they’re not going to make a game that doesn’t sell.
@get2sammyb have a look at the total number of sales of HFW compared to HZD (including on PC). And my guess is there's a reason it went onto Extra so quickly. I absolutely loved HZD (and Frozen Wilds)... but found HFW and Burning Shores to be increasingly boring (edit - and Aloy to progressively less interesting a character). Happy to accept that's just my opinion... but I'd suggest people look at how successful the Lego game was, and Call of the Mountain (even though it was a pack-in). What evidence is there that this franchise actually has the chops to be their number one franchise (in terms of investment)...
Horizon has massive appeal and has sold really well so hopefully there's enough attention on this live service game to make it successful.
@get2sammyb "they're not going to make a game that doesn't sell"... er... recent history might suggest otherwise. I think there's one thing you could say about single player Horizon - but I'm not sure that anything that Sony does in the GaaS arena is unsinkable.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare Okay, so ignore the franchise, don't engage with it, don't buy it, and let Sony burn all their money making games that, according to you, don't sell.
It's not hard.
@get2sammyb as I said - I hope I'm wrong... time will tell.
Trouble is, if this... game... doesn't hit the mark (and there's a high chance of that), it will impact the dev, and don't want to see that.
Horizon is one of Sony's IP's that I really like, I'd hate for Guerilla to end up being stripped down or worse, with heavy impact on future Horizon SP games...
@Shinnok789 They seem to have staffed up specifically for this game so I think it's mostly a different team.
I'd love to see the sales of Horizon when you strip away all the pack-in free copies that were given away with hardware purchases.
I genuinely wish I cared, but I just don't anymore. I've basically lost all faith in Sony's ability to deliver this generation. :/
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare
It officially sold 8.4m copies in 14 months. That’s a massive number, regardless of it doing slightly worse than Zero Dawn(in units, not revenue). 8.4m is more than any of the Greek God of War Games, it’s more than the first 3 Uncharted games. It’s more than every game in some series, that people still clamour for on the internet, ever managed: Resistance, Killzone, Twisted Metal, Socom, Gravity Rush(probably every Japan Studio Game ever), Jak and Daxter(it’s more than the entire trilogy combined actually), Infamous, Ratchet and Clank etc. etc.
Oh, yeah, it’s more than Bloodborne(7.6m in 7 years, having been available for $10 for years) and Days Gone too.
I genuinely think this game could be good. When I played HFW I remember some cut away dialogue in one of the villages talking about the clan wars. With multiple clans building up their respective village and fighting other clans over resources etc, with emergent gameplay during battle with unpredictable involvement of machines (e.g. a thunderjaw or tremortusk randomly stumbling across the fight and causing chaos requiring you to make choices over whether to run, take advantage of the distraction to take out other players etc), and most likely the ability to capture and harness powerful machines to support you in battle - I think it has alot of potential to be really good.
Also no doubt a big component of the game will be to team up with other players to take out machines to gather valuable resources to upgrade weapons, armour, gain special abilities etc. It all seems quite logical for a live service game. And I can see how special machines with unique resources and characteristics will be dropped into the game to keep things interesting
Personal preference would be to keep all the space mumbo jumbo out of it though. I MUCH prefer the more grounded stories the original games were telling
I’d actually be more interested in a Monster Hunter Style game than the third Horizon game. I think it could be brilliant.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare @Max_the_German I see people say this but is it true? Lets look at the facts.
I wonder if you have the same bias of being 'forced' into series/IP that have many more releases than this over 8 years? If not why?
It seems from the outside YOU don't like Horizon - which is absolutely fine, we all like different things - but it's seemingly not representative of the masses like you say. Gotta agree with @get2sammyb here, if anything looks 'forced' it's you attaching your own biases onto it.
@themightyant exactly. There have been far more God of War games that sold far less. GoW didn't pull huge numbers until the reboot on ps4.
@get2sammyb Usually the impact doesn't stop at that respective team... not to mention the effect on the IP itself if one title fails...
But I guess we'll see.
@naruball Indeed, and plenty of IP that release far more titles in a shorter time-frame. Did they feel the same about
2 games and 2 spin-offs in 8 years does not feel very forced to me. Are they saying they want FEWER games? That's usually the opposite of what everyone is complaining about.
I don't think this will flop or be a huge hit. It will simply be something that happens and be of little interest to most.
I suppose that one of the key factors will be if it's free or not. Saying that, I don't see this as something the kids will flock to and I don't see the older demographic being prepared to pay for it either.
Personally, it's disappointing that Guerilla has put so much time, effort and resources into an IP and type of game I have no interest in. The whole world, clothing design and style is so naff. The studio is talented, but essentially dead to me now. I don't think they'll ever make a game I'm interested in again. HFW is the last I'll buy in that franchise, I'm still struggling to get through it 3 years after release.
I’d imagine an online Horizon would be endless chasing of increasing damage numbers with any tactical gameplay from the single-player games gutted in favour of a never-ending grind that just so happens to be sped up using real money. To be fair, you could just have any plot stuff outsourced to ChatGPT and it would be indistinguishable from the quality of the NPC interactions of the other games. I’m sure the chuds could make their sex doll protagonist of their dreams in a character creator even if the lack of any dialogue or emotion would only take it one shade of cardboard below Aloy as a protagonist.
@themightyant I think that the PS+ argument can go both ways (either sales tanked because it went on PS+; or after a lot of early sales, it dropped off hard and so they put it on PS+). I can't remember seeing any information from the leak that suggested either way WHY it was done (then again, happy for someone to show me).
At the end of the day - I'm one person - and everyone can either agree or disagree. Happy for the sales to be good - and if people enjoy it, that's good for them. I just don't need to agree with this idea that a GaaS game in this franchise will be worth the investment.
@themightyant Also... I think you might find that a lot of PlayStation gamers are getting a little tired of Sony putting so much focus on so few IP. Which I think is at least one very strong reason to invest in Intergalactic.
Wtf is a snaffle
@Toot1st it's a cute way of saying steal.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare if I've learned anything from the internet is that people are easily influenced. Definitely more than they realize. Someone says they don't like x game because it has z and the rest simply follow and swear they felt that way all along. We saw it happen too many times and recently with X-men.
@themightyant I‘ve never claimed that the Horizon IP is not successful (it is) and that I don‘t like it (I don’t). I just said that Hermen Hulst pushes it, because he felt in love with his baby; which is a bold claim I must admit, because I can’t look in his head like everyone else.
The danger here is this falling in love with your own product. This can make you blind. Hulst still seems to be (too) powerful, after his Concord debacle he should step down completely imo.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare Of course you don't have to enjoy a GaaS game of a series you don't like. But you also don't have to come in and write a dissertation making lots of negative assumptions with little to no evidence. If you don't like a game series, why not just move on.
Re: Insomniac leak, the emails are pretty clear that from their view it was PS+ that killed second year sales. Data from the leak showed Sony had forecast $124 million in year 2 sales but this dropped to just $35 million while it was on PS+.
But the emails also suggested the number of players they got from PS+ was large enough that it likely affected year 3+ sales too. I don't have those emails to hand (it was 1.6TB of data) but a search will probably find it online.
But if you want further evidence of how it didn't work ask yourself how many first party AAA games Sony has put on PS+ after just one year since? Zero.
It must be good if bungie are allowing it to go ahead ha
Horizon must be the franchise that gets the most unneeded hate, I persoanlly find both games to be extremely fun, with HFW being one of the best looking games out there!
@Max_the_German Why should he step down after the Concord debacle? Executives are usually judged by their overall recent record not just one success or failure... and PlayStation just posted record profits and revenues.
Of course his specific domain is PlayStation first party games, tv & movies etc. We know the TV and movies are doing well and the gaming we can see from their supplemental information that first party continues to be around 10-12% of their overall revenue from games.
As for "he felt in love with his baby", do we have ANY evidence of that? I'm not trying to be mean, to single you both out, but this seems to be based off nothing more than "it's an idea in my head". Call me crazy but I like information to be a little more concrete than that.
@themightyant just saying... a projection is a prediction... not a reality. Unless you see the monthly sales trajectory, and when the prediction was made, I'd say it's about as useful as a third elbow (to be polite). It's entirely possible that it WOULD have sold as many as predicted - I don't know. I am however totally on board with the fact that HFW sold well out the gate... I bought it at release too... based on a rock solid HZD. In the same way I bought Burning Shores - because I wanted to see a pure PS5 game as good as it could be. In both cases, I felt that the simplicity of the first game was encumbered by unneccessary systems that in the end didn't add a lot, and a narrative/character writing that made me be less interested in Aloy as a character with each game.
Edit - so I'm not trying to be antagonistic, and I don't want to have a battle... but I don't think the link you posted, and comments about leaks really provides a lot of detail that you think it does. None of us (I assume) are privy to actual internal decision making - and the only things that I've seen re: HFW on the leaks were the Y1-2 drop-offs... compared to HZD (which I have to say was not that useful, given a new IP, and the fact that HZD had a disaster launch for hype against BotW). I'm still not aware of any other real leaks about what Sony actually thought/planned.
Everyone is different - and yes - I don't represent everyone, and if you (and everyone here) felt the game was great, then this also doesn't invalidate my opinion. Same as I'm not invalidating yours. However I just think there's some questionable analysis being done to interpret HFW's performance (and yes, I'm sure PS+ killed off whatever interest there was in buying the game). I'm just not as convinced that it had the same legs as HZD (an opinion). Edit - and once again, just my perspective - I've played HZD multiple times (including buying the remaster) but I have zero interest in re-playing HFW.
I love the Horizon games (if hunting robot dinosaurs with a bow is wrong I don’t want to right) but I’ve never been interested in the Monster Hunter games so I’ll pass on Horizon online if that is the formula it follows. I’ll be there for Horizon 3 though.
@Carnage Just my speculation.
This will do well IMO. Don't have a great track record for predicting games as what appeals to me is clearly different to the mainstream but the potential idea of this seems unique enough yet compelling enough to capture a chunk of players.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare There is the narrative that sony only creates horizon games and nothing else.
New sony only makes AAA games, so in that sense there are by definition fewer IPs because less games are created.
This generation: spider man (miles morales + spiderman 2), ratchet&clank, the last of us remaster 1&2 (+ "soon" Intergalactic + cancelled multiplayer adaptation), mlb the show (20-24), gt7, horizon forbidden west+call of the mountain (the lego game is only sony published, not even Sony's idea), god of war ragnarok (+ cancelled multiplayer adaptation by bluepoint), returnal (+"soon" Saros) , ghost of (tsushima remaster + soon Yotei), Demon's Souls remake, Concord (butchered by the community), astro bot, (+ "soon": Marathon, Fairgame$, unannounced "gummy bears" project, unannounced new IP by santa monica, several cancelled projects: new IP by Bend, new IP by London studio now closed).
Sure some IPs have multiple installments, but I guess the cost of modern games requires that assets are re-used i.e. succesful games are followed by a sequel. Then there were quite a few unsuccessful and cancelled projects (not sure whether it is worse than in the past), and maybe You do not like any of these IPs, but is that "few" ?
@Oram77 the hate seems to stem from the Aloy being into girls.
@themightyant "Uncharted? 3 games and 2 spin offs in the first 5 years."
This was a totally different era, a beloved game franchise (still is) and not gaas. Just sayin'
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare
Yes, this was literally in the leak, they had it on a sales graph with monthly sales data and the point it enters PS Plus is highlighted. The sales were tracking at a normal rate and then flatlined the month before it entered PS Plus. If you search for it you can probably find it but it looks like a lot of these graphics have been scrubbed from a lot of sites.
You know what happens when bungie gets involved... games get cancelled.
I bet this could turn out good but I'm probably not going to be part of the audience for this. I'm not a MH fan so if that's what they are going for then I'm not interested.
The real question though would be can they move MH fans off of MH? More than a few games have tried but from an outsiders perspective it seems like Capcom has a pretty strong stranglehold on that market.
@BeenGamingSince_83 The Uncharted F2P GaaS game, Uncharted: Fortune Hunter, came later. It was a mobile puzzle game with unlocks for outfits, accessories outfits especially for Uncharted 4 multiplayer. Just sayin'
Regardless that was just one example of MANY series I could have mentioned that have had far more than 2 main entries and 2 spin-offs in 8 years yet people don't usually accuse them of 'forcing' them on us. It's really not that many games in 8 years compared to other IP.
Just in case anyone is interested... so we've had a new hire as a Design Lead; and at the same time GG has posted the following positions in the last 6 days: (1) Principal Producer (Features & Gameplay); (2) Director of Product Management; (3) Senior Game Systems Designer; (4) Cinematic Technical Designer; (5) [Contractor] Workplace Manager; (6) Cinematic Director; (7) Senior Infrastructure Engineer; (8) Principal Tools Programmer.
When I read the article suggesting Proctor was working on the Horizon Online, I automatically thought this didn't bode well (given that rumours suggested a mid-year release). Reading through these job-listings however, I'd suspect this is actually setting up the H3 team, not the online team. So perhaps they're not resetting, but staffing up for the next tranche (as none of the job listings are for online experiences). If these jobs were for Horizon Online - then that would be a serious reset.
I'm a fan of the first two games but a big part of what made them great was the sci fi story - especially engaging in the first title. Live service doesn't lend itself well in this respect and it's such a monopolized space, any new IP is a risky venture. This will need some new ideas that help it stand out from the crowd as it can't simply rely on returning players as many primarily solo players like myself don't necessarily dip into live service (unless it's Helldivers 2!). I sincerely hope they pull it off.
Edit: the mechanics and graphics are already better than Monster Hunter Wilds for example (although I'm thoroughly enjoying that too).
Good for them, but I only care about Horizon 3. I hope that's coming along nicely as well.
Removed - flaming/arguing
If I’m not mistaken, recent follow up interviews about the shutting down of TLoU Factions 2 was less about it not being a good game or a projected commercial success, rather the studio realized that to do it right would commit them to pouring massive resources into it and would sacrifice their ability to focus on their passion for their single player projects. I can only assume this Horizon MMO will demand the same reallocation of creative and development energies…
I don’t doubt we’ll get a single player Horizon 3, but I can’t help but think that this game will hamper Horizon 3’s development (or any other potential single player projects). Unless Guerrilla Games is somehow better equipped to juggle it than Naughty Dog, who have admitted now that trying to do both live service and new SP games well was not possible.
Either way, I don’t know that I’m interested in the MMO style but I like the IP. I’m trying to keep an open mind.
@Retron You can say the same for Mario Kart since that was heavily bundled with the Switch.
Must be for another horizon online game because the co-op game should be near to release
I could see it working if done right. I agree with the sentiment that it's probably better than a third Horizon game, since I think the gameplay potential of the IP is mostly played out on a single-player level.
@nessisonett "I’m sure the chuds could make their sex doll protagonist of their dreams in a character creator"
In a Sony-published game? Yeah right.
@AdamNovice Mario Kart stays at the top of the charts regardless of whether it's part of an active bundle deal or not. Let's be real.
Oh boy... here comes another stinker.
Removed - flaming/arguing
@ChrisDeku I'm with you on the Monster Hunter style of game set in the Horizonverse, could even have it set when Humans first started coming out of the creches to explain why its all new and no one is as efficient as Aloy is at taking down the robodinos
I do not like the idea of “live service” games, in particular.
I cannot actually understand how Horizon could function as a “live service”. Perhaps they are trying to go down the route of “co-operative” play, like Monster Hunter? And have no story at all?
But “live service” will always make me think of Concord, and Anthem. Two huge disappointments.
@Retron weren't the bundled PS5/HFW more expensive than the base PS5, by like $50? I'm pretty sure they would count that as a sale since it wasn't technically bundled for free, just at a slightly discounted game price, right? I could be misremembering though so don't quote me on that.
The Horizon games are great but I rank the first as a better game compared to the second. Story was more interesting to me, it seemed predictable in the second game.
The nerve some people have to come to this comment section with a bunch of nonsense, get thoroughly corrected and still keep going. The internet at its best.
On topic: I was late to the party on HFW, just finished it last month, and gosh. How much better this is compared to HZD. Just fixing the inventory management alone made me sink dozens more hours. Best open world I played since Cyberpunk. I'm very excited for Horizon 3 and whatever this online game turn into
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare
You’re not the only one. I absolutely loved HZD as well but was surprisingly bored after the first 5h or so of HFW. And you’re right: The sales for HFW are what, less than half of those for HZD? Millions of consumers clearly agree with our sentiment.
The insane level of push for this franchise is unprecedented for Sony, to my knowledge, and it would be unusual to not see the coincidence that this only started after Guerilla’s former studio head became a big PS boss. It feels adjacent to nepotism.
All this being said, I actually have a fair amount of confidence that this online game could be big—as long as they stay solely focused on making a fun game with an addictive game loop that has an attractive art style. With the talent they have, as long as they avoid other distractions, this feels like it has a good chance to be successful.
@Max_the_German it must have some appeal since its one of their best selling ips
@ChrisDeku according to vgsales days gone sold 8.9 million copies (500 more than HFW) and it didn't even get a sequel.
@EDNoresult Days Gone sold 7.46m copies by 2022 according to the Insomniac leak.
Fobidden West sold 8.4m units in 14 months, that doesn’t include the PC port or anything. It also sold these units at a high average price.
The reasons Days Gone didn’t get a sequel are complex and various. It’s not simply a case of it not selling enough, its sales are quite strong(with some caveats).
Im a huge fan of the series and im very much looking forward to horizon 3. But i have no interest in multiplayer of any game. I think them going wirh a more styleized look with this is a plus. I think it has possibilities but ultimately time will tell.
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