Donβt let the discourse tell you otherwise: the PS5 is doing very well. Tagging another 2.4 million units to its total in the quarter concluding 30th June, the system now sits at 61.7 million units sold. Thatβs a phenomenal feat when you consider all the chaos Sony has had to circumnavigate: the coronavirus pandemic and subsequent semiconductor shortage, record inflation, an acquisition spree from trillion dollar tech titan Microsoft, and unthinkably long development cycles.
Despite all this turbulence, the system is trending less than two million units behind the PS4 launch aligned, a system which cost just $299/β¬299 at this point in its lifecycle and already had a Pro hardware revision available as part of its product line. A disc-based PS5 costs $499 in the US right now, and an eye-watering β¬549 in Europe, where inflation has caused the price to increase as the machine has matured.
Indeed, according to the sales data available, itβs Europe thatβs contributing to the PS5βs shortfall compared to the PS4, as Circana analyst Mat Piscatella noted in March 2024 that the new-gen system is trending seven per cent ahead of its predecessor launch aligned in the US. This is a clear sign that price is by far Sonyβs biggest obstacle β especially when you consider that around half of PlayStationβs monthly active users have yet to actually upgrade.
The problem is this isnβt a mere case of greediness on the manufacturerβs part: Sony is legitimately finding it difficult to reduce the cost of the console. In earlier generations, like PS1 and PS2, it was able to eventually unlock entirely new audiences by driving the prices of its devices as low as $99, but that feels like a pipedream right now. As part of an investor call earlier in the year, bigwig Hiroki Totoki noted itβs proving βvery difficultβ to shrink the PS5βs die size. To make matters worse, crucial components are not getting cheaper either, leaving the console maker with very little wiggle room.
As a consequence, the companyβs said that itβs trying to find a balance between users and hardware sales. βWe want to make sure our business is profitable, as well we want to focus on user engagement, together with sales of units,β Totoki noted. βWe need to strike a nice balance between all of those components.β In other words: if PS5 users are spending more money on games and PS Plus subscriptions, it doesnβt necessarily matter if there are less of them overall.
While this is a sound strategy, itβs still going to need to continue to stimulate hardware sales at some point. Software will always help, and many are pointing to the release of GTA 6 as a milestone moment, as the 2025 title will only be available on new-gen consoles, thus forcing PS4 players to upgrade. According to Ampere, the most popular platform for GTA 5 remains Sonyβs last-gen console, despite the title being available on PS5 for some time now.
The heavily rumoured PS5 Pro, apparently slated for release later this year, will be interesting to observe. In the previous generation, the PS4 Pro contributed approximately 25 per cent to PS4βs overall install base, but it benefitted from the availability of 4K televisions, providing it with a clear and obvious selling point. Sony will not have the same marketing opportunity this time, and with PS5 prices still high as already outlined, it could cost as much as $599/β¬649 at launch.
Sonyβs solution to its pricing dilemma has been to offer time-limited promotional periods; the last few weeks, for example, have seen temporary reductions to the PS5βs price, as well as virtual reality headset PSVR2. But without a permanent change, the system is going to remain out of the reach of most mainstream consumers. Thatβs ultimately going to put a cap on its potential install base, and it may turn some away from console gaming entirely.
This is an interesting obstacle for PlayStation, and itβs a reminder that even in the wake of weak competition, the Japanese giant still needs to work hard. Xboxβs own brand image issues have been tangled up with PS5βs problems, but these hurdles are not the same: PlayStation is doing extremely well under the circumstances, but if itβs to unlock the part of its audience that propelled PS1, PS2, and even PS4 over 100 million units, it simply needs to get the price down.
How do you feel about PS5βs current price? How can Sony reduce the barrier of entry, and where does the heavily rumoured PS5 Pro fit into this? What price should Sonyβs new-gen console cost, and how can it get there? Massage the numbers in the comments section below.
Do you think PS5 needs a price cut? (1,436 votes)
- Yes, the system is too expensive at this stage of its lifecycle
- Maybe, but it just doesn't seem like it's possible right now
- No, it's not a priority because the system is still selling well
How much do you think PS5 should cost right now? (1,417 votes)
- $299 or less
- Between $300 and $399
- Between $400 and $499
- More than $500
Are you interested in PS5 Pro? (1,452 votes)
- Yes, I always want the best possible graphics and performance
- Maybe, but it depends on features and price
- No, I don't think there's any need for new hardware right now
Comments 94
I could see a permanent 50 price cut when the pro releases. I think the PS5 slim will be 400 and 450, with the pro being 550-600.
The console is still tracking close to PS4 sales in a more difficult climate. A permanent price cut makes no business sense at all.
From a purely perception standpoint, how can you price the ALL POWERFUL NEXT GEN CONSOLE PS5 below the 8 year old Switch handheld tablet ($349 w/ OLED screen) w/o making your home console look like a complete failure of a joke? π€·ββοΈ
So no, not NEED. May sell a few more, but not enough to justify the embarrassment. Blame it on inflation, or Covid, or Biden, or Brexit, but things don't get cheaper anymore, just newer and more expensive. π€
Anyway since I wrote this long comment this morning about it being all about the lack of games, not price, might as well repost it here. π
@get2sammyb Money isn't real anymore, people have crypto and record (in the US) credit card debt. What's another $400 or $500?
https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-cards/study/credit-card-debt-statistics/
The PS5 needs big AAA Sony type games, Uncharted, GoW, Spiderman, Horizon, to keep releasing every year to keep the console in the news. Sony really shoved their foot way down into the back of their mouth w/ that stupid "We know generations" comment, whatever it was and how ever much it was taken out of context. The reality is the PS5 can be viewed as a PS4 Pro Phat w/ the amount of games dual released on PS4 and PS5. And we saw a list lately of top played games, and it was all stuff like Fortnite, Robolox and Minecraft, w/ the usual sports games and FPS, I'm guessing most of which are available on PS4 or PC.
PS5 is the most unnecessary console gen upgrade there's ever been, carried I'd say more by Squenix w/ FF16 and FF7 Rebirth than Sony w/ Ratchet & Clank and well what else exactly? So sure, they could drop the price and sell a few more, Fortnite looks slick on PS5, or they could have had another Uncharted ready. Or made GoW and Horizon "we know generations" exclusive.
When it's all said and done PS5 will probably be fine and hit 100mil and the gen will last 8 years like Switch, 10 years if you count all the dual releases w/ PS6 it's first couple of years, who's sales will similarly be stymied by dual releases but turn out fine in the end. Point is, it's not the price, it's the lack of exclusive 1st party big Sony AAA games. The should have had Wolverine ready last quarter, he's kind of in the news lately.
Oh, and when PS6 releases as a digital only console, remember this sentence from August 2024:
"80 per cent of all games sold across PS5, PS4 were for a digital copy, sourced from the PS Store."
Have you forgotten credit cards exist? The price isn't going to stop any 'mainstream' gamer buying a PS5. If they want one they'll get one. Gaming is the number one passtime on the planet. They'll put it on the card. That's why we have a huge problem with debt. People consistently spend beyond their means. Money doesn't feel real, and that's only getting more acute now that we are using cash less often for all transactions.
Another pointless and over the top reaction as usual.
Everything needs a price cut. That goes without saying (not just gaming)
Trending 2% behind a very successful ps4 ( competition is 10% behind its predecessor) so still on target to pass 100m.
It needs games. It needs Sony studio games.
Do I need a PS5 Pro. Not at all. Do I want one? Absolutely!
It's impossible to know right now what the platform really needs. I think it absolutely needs a price cut. The fact that PS4 is still viable in 2024 speaks poorly of the adoption of PS5, and price is absolutely a factor there. OTOH, (other than self sabotage) the big point of failure for Xbox this generation is that they made a major gamble that cost of entry was a major challenge in selling consoles, and bet on a low cost model carving success in the market, and against expectations, that failed to succeed.
Console seems to be in an exceptionally weird place. Cheap (Series S) doesn't really win the market. Yet expensive isn't selling as expected either. Seems to me as general purpose hardware can play more kinds of games the desire for a console at all is decreasing.
"More big games" may well be the answer, and the slump in software might be a hold up until things hit their stride in a year or two. And that's where price cuts may really be important. With the exception of a new GTA (assuming it actually pulls people away from the old GTA which isn't a guarantee these days), for a "narrative" blockbuster game, people were a lot more willing to just splash out $300-400 during a good economy to join in the FOMO than splashing out $500 during a bad economy for the same.
It's a weird juncture where I'm not sure the companies themselves really know what the projections are any better than we do talking here. Nobody seems to know exactly what the market looks like right now, even on the inside. We just all know the market isn't what it was.
The one thing that does stand out to me is that the PS5 and Series X are the best things that have happened to PC gaming in at least 20 years. It will never move the casual mass market console buyer, but for enthusiast gaming, it really marked a transition moment to push people toward the PC ecosystem and evaluate the long term costs.
I do think the PS5 needs a price cut, but at the same time I see Sony trying to do the Nvidia thing and controlling prices from the top down as to where THEY believe the "value" should be priced. But it's also the behavior that will keep console sales slower than the past, and also make the value of PC look better than it did a generation ago.
@The_Pixel_King Same, getting it day 1 (assuming it's a thing in the first place)
I don't think this piece makes any kind of sense. Its selling very well and reducing prices simply means pressure elsewhere to raise them.
You cut prices if you can't sell or you find ways of reducing production costs.
Itβs odd but despite the recession if people want to buy two tickets to Taylor Swift for a grand, they will. If someone wants an iPhone 37 for Β£1300 they will get it. Steamdeck has sold well. People bought expensive new TVβs to watch the World Cup.
The PS5 is an expensive item, but more the point itβs an expensive item that only appeals to hardcore gamers. Families arenβt buying PS5βs to play the next Just Dance or Minecraft or Crash Bandicoot. The big seller last year was the Harry Potter game, because itβs the sort of thing that more casual gamers and kids are interested in. Software sells consoles, and more variety sells consoles to different markets, and thatβs something Playstation and Xbox have neglected.
With the current economic climate, continued support of the PS4, and PlayStation franchises going to PC, it's kind of impressive that the sales have continued. I believe those factors have kept it from staying on pace with PS4, not the price.
$499 USD in 2020 had the same buying power as $605.74 today. Staying the same price might as well be a price drop with this inflation.
they cant reduce the price
in fact price has gone up since it came out. a Β£200 ps5 like we got with ps4 is never going to happen.
@riceNpea "Money doesn't feel real"
I'd argue money isn't real anymore but that's a different topic.
You're right about credit cards to a point, but with debt where it is, we're also hitting a huge customer pullback on spending. Even dollar stores are going bankrupt (tell me this isn't a recession again, one more time!) Maybe for gaming it works, because more and more the gaming industry is starting to reflect a model of pushers and addicts, more than business and consumer, but in general consumer spending pullback is huge right now.
I think the credit card debt is a more complicated debt, less about buying PS5s and tropical vacations and more about the basics costing so much for so many, paying later becomes the main recourse. And of course simply the imbalance that people's existing life is now suddenly priced beyond their means, and people are never going to manage downward mobility en masse well (Tell me how this is not a recession yet one MORE time!)
I also think there's another factor in play here, both socially subconcious and concious. In a time of rapid continuing inflation, a penny saved is a half a penny lost. Spend it or lose it is the general sense now. Whatever you save now, will just buy less tomorrow than it can buy today so might as well YOLO and live large, you'll just lose it if you don't use it. Consumers are adopting the business like mentality of liquid cash being a liability better spent on assets. Unlike businesses we can't just go and buy Bungie and try to make a profit generating asset, so might as well buy it on a "durable good" that you'll get some years from which is the consumer equivalent (and ironically a better purchase than Bungie anyway...)
I don't see a fix to the economic situation. I think it careens into the second depression or a third world war saves us. Or Altman builds Skynet and nothing matters anymore.
I donβt necessarily agree as the sales are still very close to the PS4 salesβ pace, what the PS5 NEEDS is for games to leave behind last gen once and for all, itβs ridiculous weβre roughly halfway into this generation and we donβt have even 5 exclusive games for this gen.
Itβll be until a game that sparks up the masses that the console will take off again, and we all know thatβs going to be GTA 6, plus new games from Naughty Dog, Santa Monica and other PS Studios should be exclusive to PS5 now.
End of the year is stacked for third party games, and at least some of them are from established series and properties that generate sales. Then GTA next year will be a massive system seller. So there is a pretty positive outlook from a pure sales standpoint. So erm, thumbs up for whoever that affects...
But considering a large percentage of consoles end up in homes that play maybe only 3 or 4 titles/franchises per generation, it is hard to analyse how well a generation is doing with the actual gamers, without just going off sales numbers for all of the other games, which do seem to be down. And that is where it is probably falling behind. (Not sure if a slight price decrease or releasing titles such as Concord will remedy this? Hmm π€·ββοΈ)
If the PS5 ends up with similar numbers to PS4, but first party sales end up down, will it really be a success? That is where it will be judged from a user standpoint. And it will probably just mean that more of the user base is on free games and GTA, Fifa and CoD.
So long story short we need some current/pro gen first party games announced, teased, road mapped, and that will help sales with the people that actually make the difference each generation
By this time in its lifecycle, after 4 years, the PS4 had cleared 80 million units so the 5 isn't doing as well as it should.
I assume a big uptake of the 4 came with the price reduction to about Β£300.
Some of the PS5 failing to keep up with its dad is its high price (when 90% of games are available on the PS4) but also, bar a few titles, the PS5 just still doesn't have a system seller and, thanks to backwards compatibility, its sales so far have been on the shoulders of the 4.
While it's true that GTA6 will push the sales up a bit, the 5 is struggling to a certain extent when it's up against the still enduring popularity of the PS4.
I don't think the price is the main problem. It's the lack of games that are exclusive to this generation of consoles.
Many people wont upgrade when they can still play new games on the older hardware.
@IOI and othersβ¦ I 100% agree. PS4 has been around for ages and most games are cross gen or remasters. There arenβt enough actual PS5 games. Lost generation for sure. I said this on the βLollipopβ news article and was met with typical keyboard warrior nasty commentsβ¦ for having an opinion. An opinion many share. π
@sanderson72 your numbers are miles out. Itβs nothing like that sort of gap. Itβs around 1million.
@PsBoxSwitchOwner Not according to this
https://www.statista.com/statistics/651576/global-ps4-console-unit-sales/
That step up in 2017 tells a lot of the story.
I think that the PS5 is about the right price. They were Β£500, at first, and that price has barely fallen, as far as I can tell.
However, most of the software is too expensive, in my view. I think that Β£60 for most games is too high, but even I was happy to pay extra for the special edition version of Horizon FW.
@x3King84 I have a PS3 Slim 2500 series and a PS4 Pro 7200 series and I'd be gutted if either died. I really couldn't care less about the PS5.
@Matthewnh Started at Β£450, rose to Β£480 (everywhere apart from the US for some reason), intermittent cuts down to about $430 and then the cheaper to make not-very-slim is erm, Β£480. Yes, it's due a price cut. Or we need the PS6.
@YeoSprings
But that then means that less stuff is designed to run on the new hardware. So that people shall rarely, if ever, get to see what the PS5 is truly capable of.
I would like to see something that pushes the limits of the PS5, out of curiosity. Is a PS5 Pro even necessary at this point?
@sanderson72 upto January of this year ps5 sales were less than 1million behind ps4. Both around 54-55million.
PS4 did not sell 20million more in 8months.
PS5 pro will bring this price drop. However, one fact is missed here. Most of the guys that will upgrade to PS5 pro will sell their old ones so this will kill some new sales in favor of the secondary market. Still, I think the pro will do good for an upgraded version. If they make Astro version with some cool design, even better results will come
@Titntin Exactly. Everything else in the world seems to be going up in price, but a games console that's selling well needs a price cut?
Surely the parts used to make the PlayStation 5 lose value after so many years? as there's always new upgraded components being made. Just like most things after a few years they lose value, so surely it's costing Sony less now to produce Playstation 5 consoles as it did when it released? Or maybe use cheaper alternative parts in some areas to cut down on cost.
@Matthewnh itβs completely not required. One could argue the PS5 is actually a PS4 Pro Pro.
I donβt think PS5 is too expensive per se but I think it lacks, for some people, a reason to upgrade from a PS4. Same games that should run better but at the cost of Β£500 upfront. Thatβs an issue.
The PS5 Pro could be great on paper but if it plays PS4 games then what is its point? It needs more than just raw beef imo.
Iβm not being anti but clearly there is so much more potential in the PS5 we havenβt seen. 4 years in and every game is cross gen and remastersβ¦. Available on the PS4.
@sanderson72 It wasn't at 80 million, if anything they are neck and neck.
https://www.vgchartz.com/article/460060/ps5-vs-ps4-sales-comparison-january-2024/
The price is fine, there just arenβt enough must have next gen exclusives for many people to get excited about. We need AI to speed up development, and maybe even come up with out of the box ideas or aesthetics that current artists donβt seem to be trying for.
Price drop is inevitable when the Pro releases.
Proud to be that 25 %.
People always want the Neuvillette of all things and bench every obsolete unit "by their standards".
When significant amount still using decade old Oppa Xiangling until Natlan comes out, either or the contents inevitably power creep the units.
I will say, .. not every investment always brings value.
Whether that value comes late on, you can always look back and say, '"hey why would I need a PS6 this soon when I could still run medium Ray Tracing on The Witcher 4?"
Ahem anyways, yes price reduction will always definitely happen if the competitors wills it.
Simply unlock ps portal to stream ps plus. Make it so that it's baseline ps4 streaming or possibly ps4 pro if you have that system. Then ensure that if you are an active ps5 user, then it upgrades to streaming ps5 games. I am sure this will incentives subscriptions and systems
@sanderson72 At this point in PS4's lifespan (November 2013 - June 2017), PS4 was at 63.3 million so the difference is 1.6 million.
https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2017/08/ps4_shipments_pass_63_3_million_as_sony_finds_itself_in_good_health
They're talking/releasing a pro.
IMO the PS5 should be about $299 right now. Also much smaller and in a better FF than whatever crapped outta JPN at release.
@Ravix That's all accurate. I think another telling detail is that Sony itself sees the need to sell it's software in the PC market as a major pillar of its finances. If Sony is openly saying that software sales on PS5 isn't enough to run their software business profitably, while it does speak to the costs of development, it also speaks to the type of spending taking place on their consoles. If software sales were great across those 60 million units, they wouldn't need to go outside their bubble. People are buying hardware, yes, but they're not buying the software that goes with it. Maybe buying a sub and trying stuff. Some indies. A big franchise service. But that's it.
Also comes back to consumer finances. $500 for a box, $70 for launch games, $50 for games on sales.... other than enthusiasts, who's going to spend into the thousands on their gaming hobby? And if you're an enthusiast ok with spending thousands on a gaming hobby....why not just buy a 4070, 4080 and call it a day? Even Sony itself seems to get that. Regardless of Herman saying they want to release GoT to convince people to buy a PS5, he's got to know that's not likely, and I doubt Totoki was thinking that when he doubled down on PC as a correction to their cashflow woes to investors.
Sales down, revenue up, hardware sales down, but still ok, but not showing benefits of competitor sales major decrease, software sales that can't even float their own games. No filling in the gaps necessary, it's in their own words.
@Sergo Yes, too few people recognize that. That's the major problem with "pro" mid-gen models. They see an early adopter sales surge. Much of those early adopters then sell their launch model, and the new console market takes a dip while the cheaper used models circulate the market. It's a net REVENUE bump, but fails to increase total install base and thus software sales significantly. While increasing production, distribution, and software support costs. If not going with an actual "annual hardware refresh" phone/PC model, the mid-gen model isn't as financially beneficial as it seems.
Personally I think the price is fine as it is.
Perhaps stop releasing games as cross gen and make them PS5 exclusive, which in turn will then give people an actual reason to upgrade their consoles.
It's getting better but I honestly can't believe cross gen games are still a thing almost 4 years into the lifecycle of the PS5
It definitely needs a price drop. The hardware is already 4 years old, which is old in terms of gaming technology.
I couldn't say it any better than the guy pointing out the price of a Switch isn't going to be higher than the PS5, so please don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen.
@rjejr the switch is certainly an anomaly β it may in fact be the first console in history to not receive an MSRP drop for its entire life cycle (7 years and counting). in an alternate world where the switch sold respectably instead of outstandingly, the switch oled would be priced closer to $230USD and the non-oled $180USD respectively at this point in time. nintento has been gouging people for the past 3 years but steady sales make this strategy viable nontheless. only now are we starting to see hardware sales stagnate and decline a bit so a price cut may be in the cards later this year. certainly once the switch 2 releases next year, the current switch models will receive a price cut, at which point sony could follow with a price cut of its own.
in any case, at present time, i agree that sony can't price the ps5 lower than the switch oled because it would look ridiculous to do so from a power/spec point of view... but a $400USD MSRP for the ps5 physical edition would certainly help make the ps5 platform more attractive for many, boost the rate of sales and benefit sony in the long-run. of course, i agree that the biggest hurdle is software and the ps5 continues to flounder in this critical area. unfortunately, i don't think the ps5 will ever earn a high perceived sense of "value" due to its high price point and lack of enticing software exclusive to the platform. that ship has sailed... at this point it feels like we are destined to receive another 6 single player 1st party (ps5) exclusive games at best (as well as a bunch of service games). that is, until said games hit the pc down the line...
ultimately, it appears that there are 3 factors hurting the ps5 then... price point, lack of ps5 exclusive software and a general sense of "value" to the consumer that is not being met. sony most definitely underestimated the importance of the perceived "value" that is gained with true software exclusivity. nintendo, on the other hand, understands this only too well.
I bought my PS4 slim with three pack-in games (The Last of Us, Uncharted 4, and... DriveClub) for Β£280 in 2016. That's Β£370 today. If an equivalent PS5 bundle existed, it'd be over Β£500. The PS5 is absolutely worse value than the PS4 was.
The lack of exclusives highlights the relative lack of value. When there are a lot of games, I can amortise the cost of the console over more things and its value increases.
Can I afford a PS5? Sure. Do I think its value matches its price? Absolutely not.
I'm hoping the PS5 Pro will push the Slim closer to the equivalent of that PS4.
I think that they will cut the price of the base PS5 when they release (or maybe when they announce?) the PS5 Pro (late September?).
Maybe cut the Digital PS5 base model to Β£300 and the Disk to Β£390, with the PS5 Pro up at Β£500 (digital-only but compatible with the existing disk add-on).
I'll definitely pick up a PS5 Pro. I end up using the PS4 Pro sometimes when one of the kids is using the PS5, so having another console in the house would be handy and better resolution and ray-tracing would be nice.
PS5 is likely ahead 7% in US because of the collapse of Xbox.
Just give me PS5 Pro I want the best performance for my Sony X95L 65β and Dolby Atmos system
And of course for the games.
As for the price of PS5 and Xbox Series x they are overpriced for coming up to 4 years old.
But isnβt everything to expensive at the moment in the UK.
@Porco " the switch is certainly an anomaly "
Or it was just first and now the other consoles, along w/ phones, PC, video cards TVs etc, will catch up? π€·ββοΈ
PS5 will get a price cut when Pro launches, probably, and I would like to see it as $350 digital $400, but inflation says no. That and the "Class war" is over and working people lost, greed is good, and we're all screwed, so... π€
@NEStalgia excellent post, mate.
I would never waste my money for underwelming PS5 despite the fact that I have PS+ subscription until 2031
I am happy with my PS4 and I'll have a look at PS5 Pro but it is more likely that I'll pass shameful PS5 generation alltogether and I'll check PS6.
I never buy overpriced consoles just like I never buy "scalpers" story.
Hardware wise, PS5 is very weak machine for native 3840 x 2160 resolution not to mention inadequate storage (ssd) and unnecessarly & disturbingly big size and weight
As I menton at the very beginning; I will never waste my time or money for PS5 disgrace...
Better times and options will come in future...
Maybe a big release, get a bundle together.
The PS5 is my least favourite PlayStation so far and I think at this point it sells purely based on the brand.
Their are two issues. Sony doesn't want to lose money selling the ps5 so they will keep it as high as possible as long as possible. I think that despite the ps5 claiming the top spot the new console sales are stagnant. The other issue is Sony keeping expecting to sell more consoles even if they don't produce many new games. It seems Sony wants to focus on live service games, which can be hit or miss. For every COD, Destiny 2 and Fornite their are 10-20 Babylon Fall. Godfall was a disaster on the Playstation but it has seemed to do well on the Xbox.
Bring in the Pro! I wanna get one and Astro bot
Why does it need a price cut if it's selling at nearly the same pace as the PS4?
Price cuts are something you hold in your pocket to stimulate sales when demand dips. It doesn't sound like demand has dipped.
And, really, all they need to do, realistically, is maintain interest in their ecosystem until GTA VI releases. That'll sell PS5s for the next decade, probably.
All a moot point once GTA 6 comes out. Gamers still on PS4 will buy into PS5 in large numbers.
The other point is Sony need to release more must have first party games. Titles like a last of us 3 or a ghost of tsushima will move consoles and is the cure to the online rhetoric thay ps5 has no games
Can't see console price falling - at least not any time soon. Market forces won't allow it currently
The ps5 is still great value for money. Its a superb console with a lot of brilliant games even with a lack of first party exclusives...but it's still selling shed loads so I'm not convinced at all that the lack of first party exclusives are putting people off. It dosnt require a price cut at all.
itβs just weird to me how itβs ok for the ps5 to be $500 despite the launch OG ps3 being the same price and offering way more for its time, but was criticized. the ps5 is not worth $500 by 2020 standards, and the library is weak . Not to mention it has almost no features.
Not really. Itβs still selling exceedingly well, faster than PS4 was at this same time in its lifecycle, had there not been a massive shortage at the start due to Covid, semi-conductor shortage etc. then it would be well ahead of the PS4.
We've been so used to the benefits of Moore's law, we're not ready for a world where the law is ending. Tech won't get cheaper at the rate we're used to anymore
With 50m MAU still on the ps4 I think this is the reason ps5 sales are slowing down, Sony did try at the beginning of the generetion to push players to ps5 "we believe in generation" but the reality was different. the pool was very big to not release games for the last gen. With the most engaging games like fortnite/minecraft/roblox/fifa/nba/cod eg still releasing on older gen consoles this gen has a serious problem to dominate.
Is this not a UK based site?? If so it's very odd to only quote dollar and euro pricing...
Unless the PRO doesnt have a disc drive, I sadly think the price stated in the article is a pretty large under-estimation.
PS5 gets a lot of flack for being the βworstβ ps console and βunnecessary.β I actually think itβs an impressive bit of kit. Load times/download times and the easily expanded storage are great. For the most part the games look and play great. The pandemic and the rapidly changing industry have caused huge problems in an industry with development timelines that are difficult to change.
Also, everything in life has gotten much more expensive, so of course the software and hardware has as well. Itβs a bad situation but if labor and cost of living risesβ¦ so do hobbies like video games.
Jim Ryan gets a lot of crap, but his supervision of the PS5 launch was epic and is a huge part of the reason why its sales are not far behind the PS4. Sony had to deal with the pandemic, the rise of βlifetimeβ time-sink free to play games, and MS attempting to buy itβs market share and is still maintaining its position in the industry. Sure itβs a bummer we are not getting first party Sony style games at the same rate we used to, but most of the articles and comments focus on the negative when there is actually a lot to be positive about and a lot to look forward to. The big releases are coming and they will be announced and released on a short timeline, which I think is actually preferable.
What if GTA6, MHWilds moves Xbox Series Ss instead...
From a consumer perspective, i personally want a price cut so i can buy one + a bunch of games and one additional controller.
But from business perspective, is price cut really necessary when PS5 are selling well and generate great income with the current price? If they do price cut, they would get more sales but less income.
Went maybe, $300 and maybe. In US sure $300 is something but $800 AUD. I got a Switch when it was $300 but is $450 to $500. You can tell why I bought a Switch for near US price right.
Retro consoles I get for $60-100-200 even if other models to keep them going. Games I won't buy for $100+ usually $5-28 to $50 & under. Especially not PS3 Lollipop Chainsaw copy for $200 no matter condition/rarity/etc.
PS+ MP or skip if solo. Games being retention, safe design whether artistic thinking or get it done, real world logic/make whatever works and is very safe and disappointing.
Enhancements/gimmicks are 'fine', OS/folders (groups/library still based on Xbox One & I hate them there, so PS5/Switch as much as Xbox One/Series share the OS details WHY?). PS4/Wii U folders any day.
No interest for PS5/Series & have access to them from family members. I don't have to buy them but still feel too safe/not exciting enough, good with old gen still.
Have no interest in the games. So few are good, many not exciting/otherwise game design is too safe I can't be excited enough to play retro games with more exciting mechanics. I look broad, I play different genres unlike those that go 'oh you only play 1 genre/only trending games'.
I branched out to a Vita/Wii U/3DS/Switch/N64 & other models of 360/PS3/PSP/DS with multiple retro games some obvious major IPs, others left behind IPs, others gems. Modern gaming I buy a few but most don't interest me/many at all each year don't appeal. AAA, AA or Indies. So I'll clearly spend the money. XD
Social factors/consulting are one thing (writing or personality notice), graphics/story is another but boring gameplay/mechanics/movesets is a big one for me.
When old games give me more creative ideas for modern games lacking gaps & when modern lack them & instill no creativity just looking at how dull they are other than 'offer this because your game is so dull & basic of a core/movesets/world personality or level design'. How exciting! XD
Trends, systems I don't like (skill trees among others), boring missions in open worlds/linear games, dialogue & movesets/modes/general gameplay/interactivity, regardless of genres as broad as I play many of I'm not happy with the state, we get these days not IP strictness/narrow vision, gameplay safeness. Experiment/straightforward with balance.
Puzzle has been great, hack n slashes vary, Tactics same, visual novels fair, arcade racers fair,
shooters (themes/modes or not being trending MP nonsense, a good mix of mechanics in a solo/split co-op mode, instead playing older gen shooters, Indie boomer shooter differ of course),
platformers (AAA/Indies fair attempts, not the talent/personality that's exciting, some simple, some minigames, lack fun mechanics/worlds) instead 5-7th gen ideas
RPG (prefer Tactics, turn/action probably doing fine),
racing sims (modes basic & too much brand/business model pushing), older gens with more mechanics/mode depth & unique modes,
& action adventure disappoint with business models/trend priorities &, gameplay safeness/simplicity.
Remakes don't bother unless games I can't easily access of SNES/GameCube or others ($200 SNES in reach but the games are a bit high of price/I need more research of the gen first) maye buy, ofhers vary. But if a PS2/PSP/PS3/OG Xbox/360 game for cheap, fhen old one. Condition sure but even still. If remakes cut features, will get the originals.
@TheArt the test is going to be whether NCAA moved series s with its launch. That game has the most casual audience most likely to grab the cheapest option jut to play that game.
PS5 needs a price cut and it's long overdue.
Not only the console but psplus too with the basic one cost $80, compared to $60 but usually people can find it cheap at $40 back then on ps3 & ps4 eraπ
To everyone who is saying: βMoney isnβt real, just put it on the credit card.β
You must be living a very comfortable life or are financially irresponsible. The PS5s price (especially in Europe) makes it a luxury product. 550β¬ is a lot of money for a machine that can only play games. And I would argue it makes it too expensive for non hardcore gamers.
The PS4 at 300β¬ was a great deal for people who occasionally wanted to play FIFA or Fortnite. They wonβt get the PS5 at itβs current price. And theyβll lose even more incentive to do so if Sony continues to release their exclusive games also on PC.
@TheStormGL Games consoles are by definition luxury products. And it doesnt just play games. it's a full media streaming device and disc player.
Prices have risen by about 23% since the PS5 launched and if its price had tracked inflation it would be about Β£550 now.
Conventionally consoles go down in price as their original production costs, like chip dies, are amortised, but inflation in this case has offset that. it needs to be remembered that developed economies have not seen inflation like this for 40 years - this is why their central banks fought so hard to bring it down: it makes everyone poorer.
There is also less competition, to be frank. Microsoft have done just about everything wrong you might expect this generation and Sony simply doesn't need to pursue aggressive pricing to maintain market share.
it can use episodic spot pricing to gain consumers who are highly price sensitive. The cut will come - a few weeks before Christmas to activate those looking for a bargain. But cutting it now, and losing all the revenue from those who start buying seasonal gifts early is just bad business.
@PuppetMaster Keep in mind money in the video game business comes from software sales, not from hardware sales, and while the total consoles sold is "not that much less" than PS4, the data has a few components that should be worrying from the business perspective.
The number is shrinking, not growing, even as the competitor's market evaporates (not picking up new customers from shrinking competitors, i.e. those customers are leaving the market).
This should be their peak market with Xbox down and Nintendo winding down and the road will get rougher once Switch 2 is announced, but it's already down.
Some of the current hardware sales totals are padded by impulse buys during the shortages where people were buying them simply because they were the thing to buy and it was hard to get, but by people who didn't really intend to buy games.
Software sales are down. Software revenue is down. Most revenue is coming from subscription. RED ALERT! The bread and butter is sinking.
Finally Sony's own "console seller exclusives" are no longer sufficiently profitable selling only in their ecosystem. That hits more at the business model itself.
If looking at nothing other than hardware units sold it may be easy to say "everything's ok, no need to discount", but when you look under the hood, the business isn't that rosy. The hardware only exists to drive software sales, and the software isn't selling like it should. Price is not the only factor involved in that. But the more hands you can get the hardware into the broader the software sales base. Price cuts contribute to that.
Fixing SOFTWARE pricing has to come next though. Yes, people, and especially whales may line up to buy $70 games. The problem is they only buy the biggest most sure-fire hits at that price then spend little else.
@rjejr yea, i guess it will all depend on the extent of which hardware sales decline for the ps5. that said, i think sony is betting the farm on gta vi to correct the situation and keep things respectable for them... that is the one and only game that has the potential to course correct the entire industry all on its own. a $400USD ps5 digital edition packed in with a voucher of gta vi may be exactly what the doctor ordered
@x3King84
Thatβs exactly the point.
For as long as developers are obliged to make PS4 versions of their new games, then the potential of the PS5 will remain completely handicapped.
How many games are there out there for the PS5, that run exclusively on PS5 - and do not have a slightly-less-pretty PS4 twin?
Very few. And one of those is preloaded onto your PS5 to begin with! Thats the problem.
I bet that most of your PS5 game library are updated versions of PS4 games, right? Mine too.
@Porco As the last person on Earth to not have played GTA V I really don't get all the hype for GTA 6. I know it's like the best selling game of all time or some such, and people seem addicted to their online, but who knows if 6 will even be any good? You're far from the only person to make the point, I guess I just don't believe hype anymore. Every game is the next big thing, until it isn't.
That said I do think Elder Scrolls 6 will be big, but not until PS6. But what do I know, I don't play those either. π€·ββοΈ
@Matthewnh yep⦠They are pretty much all PS4 Pro Pro games.
Itβs such a bizarre generation.
Price is always important but I go with lack of 1st party exclusives as the main issue here
Thing is, Sony were recently selling the PS5 disc version for about Β£400 - so was that not sustainable or were they just offloading the old fatties before the new slightly slimmer fatties came in?
@x3King84 @Matthewnh I don't think it's developers being obliged to make PS4 versions, they're thinking of profits and if the old one is still capable of running a game, why not? Even if every PS5 owner has sold/retired their PS4, there are as many PS4s out there as PS5s and if they can sell it on the old platforms then they'll do it. Some studios can only prioritise one platform and it makes sense to aim for the PS5 going forwards but for the others, the PS4 will still be a thing for the next year or two. The Star Wars Jedi: Survivor announcement is one such case - no need for it but potential profits talk. Might run quite well on the Pro.
@rjejr @Porco I honestly do not get the hype at all. I played GTAV. It was ok. Just ok. Pretty average game, pretty typical sandbox. A few good characters, one character so base and obnoxious it ruined the good characters for me. It had only a few heists. It seemed like a perfectly middling game with a big budget. I have no idea how it exploded into being this icon of everything gaming.
The only thing I can really guess is that, like fortnite, it's not a game, it's a social media platform and virtual hangout space. Nobody buys it for the video game, everyone (adolescents) buys it to chill with friends in a virtual space, talk on the "phone", and "hang out" and "do s--t" they'd get in trouble doing for real. Only a guess, but that's all I've got because the actual game is average at best. It's all pretty lowest common denominator stuff. It's popular because it's base and vulgar in the way a middle schooler thinks is awesome. I'm sure that's the secret sauce to success, but still...
I do also wonder if the hype for GTA6 is real or if it's marketing presuming so. Consoles bet the farm on it. 2K literally cancelled half the company to focus on on it. Fans here clearly assume it'll be what solves the console ecosystem's woes. Maybe it will. But if it's mostly a social media platform there's not much to compel people to move from V to VI. Their friends are all on V, might as well keep hanging out there. Heck, they don't even have the series writer anymore.
@NEStalgia San Andreas was the best-selling game on the PS2. RDR2 sold 61+ million copies. The legacy of this developer did not begin with GTA V. Do you seriously think GTA VI isn't going to make mad bank and move tens of millions of PS5s? And probably even more PS6s when the time comes, lol.
@Ralizah " Do you seriously think GTA VI isn't going to make mad bank and move tens of millions of PS5s? "
Well I can't speak for them, but yeah I do think that's what they're thinking b/c it's what I was thinking when they agreed w/ me. Well to be fair it was more of a "I don't get it, who knows how good this game will do, maybe it won't move the needle?" more than saying it would flop. My reasoning being, GTA games are for the hardcore gamers, not the casuals waiting for a price drop, and the hardcore already bought 60 million PS5, so even if, or ok when, the game sells well, that doesn't mean it will move consoles. By the time it comes fall 2025 or later out most people who want a PS5 will probably already have one. π€·ββοΈ
https://www.gamingbible.com/news/gta-6-release-date-update-621268-20240809
@NEStalgia " fortnite, it's not a game, it's a social media platform and virtual hangout space "
I play Fortnite every weekday, weekend's are for better things, and I socialize and hang out w/ no one, it's a time waster for me. And claiming victory at my age over all the kids, especially the ones who stop and build. π
@rjejr @Ralizah Maybe. I still don't think it's a given that gta6 replaces gta5 online as the default hangout. It'll sell great, sure, but will people jump over on the online, the real cash cow?
That said I still don't get the insanely hyped nature of the series. I know it's an adolescent/tween magnet with the immature content, but Houser is also gone.
@rjejr GTA is up there with Fortnite, Minecraft, Call of Duty, and Mario Kart in terms of its casual appeal, though. It's part of that elite 10% of top video games that sell to the mass market, whereas almost everything else sells to the core gamer crowd.
LOTS of casual gamers are gonna buy a PS5 to play this. So many. Rockstar is arguably the biggest developer in the world
@NEStalgia At least GTA has a sense of legacy to it. Lots of people grew up on the series, and it really revolutionized sandbox open world game design.
Whereas I look at what's popular in terms of music, celebrities, etc. and I suddenly feel like I'm surrounded by aliens.
@Ralizah "LOTS of casual gamers are gonna buy a PS5 to play this"
It's so weird as I'm just not feeling it. Or don't get it. Or understand it. Can't put my finger on it? π€·ββοΈ
I guess I'm just too negative of a person to ever expect anything that's the "next big thing" to pan out. You ever hear of Segway?
In case that doesn't come across right it's not that I just don't play the game, I don't play FIFA, CoD, or Minecraft but I know how big they are. And I know GTA V continues to be the top selling game every week for the past 10 years. I suppose it's a "lightning never strikes twice thing". Or is it " catching lightning in a bottle"? I'll just end here w/ "I'll believe it when I see it". π
@NEStalgia We agree on a lot of stuff so I shouldn't be surprised but you and I having such a similar take on GTA 6 is still weird. I guess it's b/c you seem to be coming from a place of knowing what you're talking about and I'm just gut feeling it as I have no concept of their online. Or maybe we're just both too cynical. π
@rjejr Yeah, I mean the game wears it's identity on is sleeve, it's a world built on base, juvenile, often just gross humor. In a way that explains why it's so popular but it still doesn't because that has little to do with the online which is that it's popular for. I think it'll definitely sell, and sell consoles, but because gamers seem to be locked into a perpetual cycle of "must play whatever everyone else is playing", but whether or not it can move the mass of non thinking potatoes that live in the online..... Remember overwatch 2......
@NEStalgia I know Overwatch 2 came out and didn't do as well as 1. I know Destiny 2 doesn't seem to have gone over as well as they had hoped. I feel like Splatoon 3 came out too soon after Splatoon 2 but Japan was like GIVE US MORE. And I feel like it's been too long since GTA V for GTA 6 to have the same impact, people change, gamers change.
I hear ya about the FOMO though. That should be there marketing line: "Buy GTA 6 B/C You Know All Your Friends Will" followed by #1337 or some such. π
@NEStalgia @rjejr i can fully understand both of your sentiments there. the franchise has blown up to such an extent, that the hype and PR surrounding it will inevitably create unobtainable expectations for many people, especially for those who were never onboard with the experience and everything the games represent. when viewed without all that noise, however, they are just well made games that have continued to set a new bar with each entry.
as someone who was there day 1 with GTA 3 on ps2, it really did blow my mind what i was whitnessing. it wasn't the first open world, sandbox game to exist, but it was certainly the grandest and most immersive during this infancy stage of polygonal gaming. it set the new standard for the industry going forward with its writing and narrative as well (OK, no, metal gear solid and the numerous squaresoft games did, but gta was among the top). with each new entry, expectations grew as did the sales. what is most impressive about gta is that it somehow managed to exceed the lofty expectations and continued to outdo itself.
i wouldn't call myself a gta super fan, but i've enjoyed my time with them, outside of gta iv which i found to be borderline unplayable due to the terrible camera and aiming systems, not to mention sluggish performance (on ps3, it felt like it was running at 20 fps. i'm not a performance snob but it felt like sludge moving around in that world). but gta v was WOW! at the time of release β it really did push ps3 to its dead limits from a technical standpoint and the story/writing was certainly above average and memorable.
there is something unique about the property in how it can be so mainstream yet so unapologetic and unique in its vision. it is refreshing to see a major publisher put out a game that has zero interest in being politically correct or focus tested. they have a vision and they will stand by it no matter the outcome. it might not be for everyone, but with gta v reaching 200m copies sold, they are doing something unheard of in connecting with their audience.
btw, i am referring strictly to the single player games. i have never played gta online and have absolutely no intention of doing so. i agree with your viewpoint on it being a social media platform and casual space to screw around in. it remains to be seen if rockstar will even attempt to make a gta vi online or simply expand what already exists. it will be risky, whatever they decide to do on that front as we know it is too easy to break something that already works.
@Porco Heck I remember when "Grand Theft Auto" (Not GTA, but long-form Grand Theft Auto 1!) was hyped to heck and back and I tried it and found it interesting in concept yet shockingly boring. But boy did it sell and get hype. That game had no edge, it was just a top down camera driving cars into things to follow the arrow to the next phone booth. I think somehow the appeal of being a criminal on the run is what somehow connects with people. There were no characters or story, just smashing stuff with a top down 16bit looking car. But people went crazy for it. I think that theme just hooks seemingly a lot of people for unknown reasons to me.
2 and 3 I will however say were, for their period in time, a cut above and something totally different. I get the appeal there.
Although with 6 it's still going to be interesting without Houser, the main writer behind the characters and storytelling people liked in the series, if it will become a "Saints Row" kind of problem or not. Some of those aspects you describe liking about it are probably attributable mainly to Houser's writing, love it or hate it. I'm not a fan of the content, I don't "get" base, juvenile humor (which has made American TV almost unwatchable to me, nothing that's supposed to be funny seems funny to me....despite being American...), but I admit Houser's is quality writing for what it's supposed to be.
At the same time I'd argue that the "single player" game has almost NOTHING to do with GTAV's success. It's 99% about the online and has been ever since it launched. That's the part I'm not sure will translate easily to 6. Taking a huge GaaS like that and uprooting the whole user base entrenched for a decade may be an impossible task. Imagine WoW2 launching and just replacing the whole WoW population. No matter how well received 6's single player game is, it's the online it will live and die on. It may well be that 5 continues to outsell 6 for the forseeable for that reason.
@Porco I was just discussing GTA V w/ my soon to be 22 yo college graduate who has a lot of friends who play a lot of video games but doesn't know anyone who plays GTA V and no one has mentioned GTA 6 so I guess maybe that's my reference? They actually mentioned "lighting in a bottle" but did say it was sure to move some PS5 though how many is anyone's guess.
So now I'm intrigued. Not about the game itself, don't really care, but it's reception and impact. Like, will it really run ok on Series S or are we looking at GTA on PS3 levels of unplayability? Or Cyberpunk on PS4? And will Switch 2 be in the discussion if Series S can run it properly? Will it be optimized of PS5 Pro?
So many questions for a game I'll never play. Something to watch for after the election I suppose.
@NEStalgia " just replacing the whole WoW population "
As part of the conversation w/ my kid, see above comment for further details, we decided FF 14 had replaced WoW. I can't imagine a WoW 2 doing well. See Destiny 2 and Overwatch 2 and Plants vs Zombies 2. Sequels are rarely a good idea. π
@rjejr Nah, XIV and WoW are definitely independently thriving games that have some similarity and a ton of differences...I don't think one replaces the other. Heck, XIV didn't totally replace XI which is still running with a small but loyal population.
@NEStalgia "didn't totally replace XI"
Maybe they'll all finally switch to GTA 6?π
@NEStalgia at the time i wasn't even aware of gta 1 and 2... those games certainly had their fans. i even heard some purists complain that gta 3 had lost the spirit of the series and heavily disliked the idea of the franchise going full 3d (despite there being a top down view in gta 3 which nobody used)
as for houser, he was tied to the development of 6 for several years before he left (the game began development all the way back in 2014... he left in 2020, so plenty of time to leave his mark and establish a foundation for the story). but yea, game development is messy and his departure during the critical phase of development could certainly worsen the output. remains to be seen how it all turns out.
@rjejr interesting to gain the perspective of the younger crowd. if the 20 and under demographic have no interest in gta, that would be something (generally speaking, of course). the majority of sales will likey come from those in the 30s and 40s who grew up with gta, rather than those who have yet to be "initiated"... all that said, i think modern gamers are starving for something big and it won't surprise me if gta 6 smashes all the sales records on its release.
since the game has been in development exclusively for current gen hardware (with no pc port in sight β rockstar usually waits years to release the pc port), i think it will run great on ps5 and series x. but yea, series s is a big question mark. if we are to believe that 75% of series consoles sold were series s variants (as of 2022 according to reports with a decline afterwards) then it is safe to say that at least 10-15m series s consoles were sold. rockstar has a clear obligation to put the effort in with so many people being impacted there... despite this, it is anyone's guess how that all turns out
@Porco For better or worse, I don't think it matters if a game is good or bad, big or small, I think sales are driven by hype and hype alone now. Heck Cyberpunk smashed records and literally didn't even work at all on most of the installed systems. Granted there's a good game in there when it's all working.
This has hype and marketing money so this will sell great. Best of all time, maybe, hard to say. At launch. What's more interesting is if it has that 3 generation 10+ year long tail to it V did or if it's just another launch blockbuster.
Also 10 year dev time....can we think of any games with 10+ year dev times that weren't a train wreck? (even if it sells great? )
@Porco " it is anyone's guess how that all turns out "
But until then I think I'm going back to my regular game watching. "The Plucky Squire" was supposed to release last year, and maybe earlier this year, but still no release date, and Sony's big game after Astrobot, "Horizon Lego Adventure", still isn't dated despite supposedly releasing in the next few months. Yes I know they said "Holiday 2024" but to me when you're in August that is in the next few months. GTA 6 might as well be 2026 as far as my old swiss cheesed brain is concerned.
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