Topic: Detroit: Become Human

Well... I played and finished Detroit over the last few days. Let's just say I didn't end up with the ending I wanted!

Overall, what an outstanding game. I have tried all of Quantic Dreams' previous game attempts (Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain & Beyond Two Souls) and none of them could keep me engaged for longer than a few hours, or really engage me in the first place. This one was different. This is easily David Cage's best work when it comes to storytelling, and generally a fantastic story. I only have God of War left from my Black Friday haul, which seems to be generally agreed upon as having the best video game storyline this year, but I'd be surprised if it can beat Detroit. Never has a game managed to make me so tense that I can literally feel my heart beating in my chest — on multiple occasions.

That's to say nothing of the graphical fidelity of this game. I came off of having just 100%'d Spider-Man in a few days, and being very impressed with the graphics and cutscenes there. This was on a whole other level. The facial rendering (as also mentioned by @Th3solution) is probably the best I've seen in any video game ever - period. The environments were gorgeously crafted, although not as unmatched as the facial animations. Really a very stunning game. The joystick movement for actions was pretty much perfectly implemented and no longer the hassle I felt it was in Heavy Rain, and the movement was more fluid and responsive than ever in a Quantic Dream game. The flowcharts were a great addition, and I spent quite some time simply studying them and looking at the player stats. (Apparently only 4% managed to have the Kara ending I got, which makes me feel even worse about it. I'm so upset!) There definitely seems to be a lot that could've gone different, and judging by the flowcharts it definitely seems like it's the most expansive choice & consequences-game out there. I don't think I've been this engaged in a video game story since Mass Effect, and that's high praise coming from me. I could definitely see myself replaying this in the future, and I almost want to start another playthrough right now. But no! I must resist! I've got a God of War, Red Dead Redemption 2 and Dreamfall Chapters to get to. For now, I'll just wallow in silence, thinking about my horrible, heartbreaking endings.

If anyone's up to discuss the game's story further, I'd be more than happy to. This is game I could talk about for ages, although don't let that scare you off!

@Tjuz Great to see your positive response to the game! Although the ending wasn’t quite what you envisioned, the ride getting there sounds like it was as utterly engaging as mine was. I agree with your impressions nearly 100%. Although it is not a perfect game, it is so very unique and fascinating in its presentation. I thoroughly enjoyed it as well. And like you, I would really like to play through again and explore different branching storylines, but I need to push through some backlog instead. I have GoW and Spider-Man still to play and am knee deep in RDR2 at present.
It’s too bad @beemo deleted his account because he had posted his playthrough results and they were incredibly different. My results had a lot of similar outcomes that you did, with a few notable exceptions at the very end of each storyline.
(I tried to go into more detail but for some reason the spoiler tags aren’t working for me right now) 😠

I voted Detroit as the best story for 2018, granted I haven’t played the other notable games, but to me the way the narrative was crafted is truly wonderful and quite an accomplishment. I know different people will have alternate views as to the quality of the story, depending on the choices they made and outcomes they get.

@Tjuz
Im glad you enjoyed it but you definitely need to re play ASAP!
You made so many 'wrong' decisions (that is if wrong means the opposite of a best possible ending, since I dont really see them as wrong but more as simply your own story)
Just reading your path with Connor you need to understand Hank. e.g. Leaving him risk death over an 'acceptable'. % is giving Hank proof that Connor is a mere dispensable and despicable machine. Shooting the android is an easy mistake but ultimately a wrong choice in Hanks view of compassion vs cold machine. In the same idea, sacrifice (and for that matter death and new model coming up) is supporting the idea of Connor as a disposable machine. .
You definitely need a supportive public opinion and Hank friendship.
I do agree though that violent revolution is the reasonable path because they are simply being slaughtered at that point. Thing is a peaceful march does help going through the border but there r other options with e revolution path which I prefer. I also feel there are worse ending for Kara, sick ending... The beauty of this game is, even if you think you got the best ending (as in the one making you happy), you still can have missed some awesome stuff them singing etc. Leading to the same outcome.

@Th3solution Sounds like we're pretty much at the exact same place in our gaming lives right now! I'm going to play God of War next and then try to get back into RDR2 and hopefully finally finish Chapter 2 after tens of hours of play. I might finish Dreamfall Chapters as a palate cleanser during RDR2 if I risk ''geting over it'' again. I also just finished Spider-Man, so sounds like we have fairly similar tastes! I would love to hear you go into more detail regarding your playthrough if you end up getting the spoiler tags to work. Detroit would certainly be my favourite story of 2018 so far, but Spider-Man is the only other 2018 I've finished. I'll be interested to see what God of War ends up doing for me, and possibly RDR2 once it picks up it's pace and really get the main storyline going.

@JJ2 I will definitely replay it! Possibly after I finish the above three games I mentioned. I don't want to risk not being able to get into it since I only just played this. I was actually quite surprised at how terribly I performed since I generally am able to easily achieve the ''best endings'' in video games. The way you explain Hank's behaviour definitely makes a lot of sense, and is a point of view I hadn't really taken into account. I definitely understand why he reacted the way he reacted to the two major decisions more so now. I'm sure it also didn't help that I died three times, which only reaffirmed his belief of me being disposable. I did try really hard to actually be friendly with him in conversations though, and while I'm sure that wouldn't have been enough, it would've been nice not to see the huge red arrow every time I was trying to be nice but either Connor phrased it in the worst way or Hank was just unnecessarily hating on me!

It did feel somewhat sad when Hank just rejected to help Connor at the end. I thought we were actually making progress once I didn't shoot the android and sacrificed myself for Hank, but I believed he was still either hostile/tense with me at that point because of the damned conversations. Sharing the moment with him where I ended up getting him killed by new Connor and he actually reacted gratefully to be able to see his son again instead of angrily was very nice though. I wasn't expected to be that touched by Hank at that point into our relationship. I don't know about the sick ending for Kara, but that sure doesn't sound good. I do hope I can get her out alive in my next playthrough in whatever manner. Also, singing??? I love it when characters sing in any form of entertainment, so I definitely missed out on that.

@Tjuz
I have nt actually experienced the Hank outcome you mention, I didnt know it even existed. I did check out a few bad ending on youtube (which I dont even want to experience for myself) and its amazing how many you can have. I obviously dont want to spoil it for you, but there s even a full fight scene to the death between them (Hank vs Connor). In my best (prefered) playthrough Simon is dead but I just feel it made sense in defining deviant Connor personality in ways I dont want to spoil. My Connor never died (in that playthrough) and I feel thats the way it should be. Talking about -sick ending' is just my way of describing those endings I found revolting...

I’m really excited everyone will get a chance to play this gem. Yeah, it’s not perfect and the narrative gets a little loose at points due to the multitude of options to select choices and affect outcomes, but it’s amazingly done. The graphics are probably the best character models I’ve seen on console. (Well, by ‘best’ I mean most realistic appearing)
I would love to read opinions of my fellow Push Squarians who are getting to experience this for the first time.

@RogerRoger Yeah, I forgot I gushed about it from comment 38-43 😊 ... but yes, it’s definitely worth your time and it’s a fantastic game to just try out for no cost on PS Plus. I think I completed it in about 6-8 hours if I remember correctly. It could even go faster depending how your characters fare. There is really no other game like it that I know of — not with the depth of narrative choices as this. I forget how many endings it has, but when the variable paths you can take are brought into account, there has got to be dozens and dozens of possible story outcomes. I predict you’ll adore some of the characters. Just don’t be expecting the tightest, most error-free narrative in gaming. By virtue of what it is, there will be times when you feel cheated by an outcome or feel like the story jumped over and reached a conclusion that seems to have left out important plot details. But I don’t think those moments detract from the amazing accomplishment that QD put together. I know you like Sci-Fi settings too, so that will help your enjoyment also. If you (or anyone else who is gonna give it a go ... I saw your comment on the main article @Ralizah 😉) hates it, then I’ll feel bad for cheerleading the game, but at least it’s “free.”

And I suppose Rog, I owe you a Hitman or Lara Croft Go review if/when you play this one 😄.

I often thought of getting this on release - I'll try and make the time to try it out... If I can clear the 80gig to download it that is!

@Th3solution When I finish Horizon: Zero Dawn, this will likely be the next PS4 game I gravitate toward.

@Ralizah It’s a perfect palate cleanser after a large open world epic.

It’s no Virtue’s Last Reward, but the multiple endings and pathways definitely has a Zero Escape flavor.

I'll be jumping into this very soon! I'm trying to convince my wife to play it with me instead of watching Netflix when the kids go to bed She's always been into the interactive story telling type of games like the Telltale series so this shouldn't be too far off. Glad to hear it generally has glowing reviews!

@RogerRoger Oh I can't wait to read your impressions of what happens later!

@RogerRoger Great to hear you’ve jumped feet first into Detroit and I’m glad you are enjoying it. It does a lot of things really well and a few things not so well, but the overall package it very impressive.
I love the relationship of Markus and Karl as well as Hank and Connor. They seem much more organic that Kara’s relationships. I’ll not spoil anything, but suffice it to say that there is a time or two that I was tempted to reload a prior decision because I wanted my relationships to turn out a certain way and occasionally the game’s consequences seemed a tad arbitrary. You’ve probably already run into a little of that, and I guess it’s unavoidable in a game of this nature. Overall, though, I think the game rewards you with interesting narrative consequences that mostly make sense. And thankfully, I think most of the tedium with housework and such is front-loaded in the early hours. I don’t remember the latter half to be filled with quite as much of the mundane. I think you’re right — part of that early housekeeping is to establish an emotional investment of the character roles.
I look forward to reading how things turn out for your characters! Of the various outcomes and storylines that people posted of their first playthrough, I don’t think I saw the same one twice and no one ended up getting my final result that I know of.

@RogerRoger I thought the same with that Marcus section scanning for graffiti, iirc it was my least favourite section of the game. And yeah Kara' s story does get more meaningful eventually (well at least my playthrough did, yours may turn out a bit differently).

@RogerRoger Your playthrough is falling pretty close to mine, with a few small exceptions, so I think our play styles are similar. I tend to avoid unnecessary violence, look for peaceable solutions, but sometimes certain characters just tick me off and I have to go Rambo on them. Still, even with relatively common goals, I think I see your and my narrative paths starting to diverge slightly. Very interesting.
But yeah, spot on with your impressions so far. Although I don’t remember that area having poor visual fidelity. Perhaps it’s related to your being on a Pro and I’m on a standard PS4. I could have just been rushing through that part and not paid attention because as you say, it was a little bit of a lull there.
Keep it coming! It’s fun reading and experiencing it again in my memories.

@RogerRoger Sounds great! Yeah the pacing is one of the pitfalls for sure, so there is a little fill-in that has to be left to the imagination, especially with Markus. I think Connor’s arc is probably the best paced.
And yes, Chloe (I think is her name) manages to be one of the stars of the game even with such a limited amount of screen time. I loved her and the way they integrate such a simple yet immersive device like that into the game menu. Why it’s never been done before, I’m not sure. Imagine playing Uncharted and having Sully or Elena greeting you on the menu selection screen. Maybe it wouldn’t work in another game not centered around androids and AI, but what a charming little addition it is.

@RogerRoger Womderful summary and I’m inwardly breathing a sigh of relief that my recommendation was not in error. So glad you enjoyed it.
As for your playthrough— I fell for the romance trap with North and the “try to save all my companions” lure. With North, it really was annoying how there were times when I connected with her but then she kept being so violent in her approach. I was able to have a pacifist approach while also maintaining at least a decent relationship with her somehow, until the end. In a moment of panic, annoyance, and “feeling the victim” due to the attacks on my nonviolent android demonstration, and with my party’s lives on the line, believe it or not, I triggered the dirty bomb and destroyed most of Detroit. It was strange that I did that and I can only claim spontaneous moral weakness (or temporary insanity), because I effectively negated what I had been trying to accomplish the whole game in the one knee-jerk moment. I wish I had stuck to my guns (or stuck to my “no guns” as the case may be) and allowed North to be killed and taken the route you did with Markus because I like how that ending sounds. Alas, the game was able to paint me into the corner, and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Nevertheless, I do think there was a moral lesson for me there about letting other people dictate your own emotions and reactions. I let passion and escalating “this is so unfair, I’m trying to be peaceful here and they keep forcibly treading on me” feelings drive me to my breaking point and I snapped. Believe it or not, it’s a real life occurrence. [pardon me as I wax philosophical for a minute...] Society doesn’t care what I may think as an individual and may constantly barrage me with attempts to accept its own world-view. The only person I can directly control is myself and the moment I stray from my own moral compass I have effectively relinquished that control to others. So I immediately regretted torching the city, but at the same time I was highly moved by it and learned something about myself.

As for Connor and Kara - I ended up with basically the same course with Hank and it was, as you say, probably the most satisfying conclusion and story arc. With Kara, I connected with her maybe a little more than you did, so I tried to keep the approach calculated at saving her companions, so I elected to again follow “the ends justifies the means” mantra and stole the families tickets, and make my way into the border of Canada by sacrificing one of the androids at the checkpoint. I was too thick to see the hints at Alice being android, so they reveal was a little more interesting to me, but I do think Kara’s story was still the weakest overall. But I still liked it enough to feel for her plight

The amazing thing is that although our endings were somewhat similar, a few of the stories people posted here were quite different. I think it must have been the user beemo who deleted his account and now the post is gone because I can’t find it, but I commented about saving Luther and Rose and he was like, “Who’s that?” Like he somehow managed to never meet them I think. His Alice was killed off so early that he didn’t even meet the same characters I did. Pretty interesting.

Which brings up the point of replaying the story - I never played more than one playthrough. I felt closure with all my characters to the point that I didn’t play again. I did the same for Heavy Rain. However, chatting about the game now has me curious to play again someday. But there’s a strange feeling of my playthrough being “canon” for me. But with the inclusion of the flowcharts, clearly the game is designed with the intent to inspire players to experience different pathways. Supposedly the platinum isn’t that difficult to achieve and doesn’t require you to see all the options.

@RogerRoger No apology necessary, I always appreciate reading your thoughts! I was anxiously awaiting to see them. And I love talking about games like this. That’s why the PS forums exist, after all.
In response, regarding the dirty bomb — I think by the ending sequence I had forgotten about it actually. In my mind I never really considered it a viable option. Then when our backs were against the wall, North presented the trigger to me as bullets reigned down from the humans soldiers and my party’s demise seemed imminent. “Aha! Here’s a way out of this mess,” were my thoughts in the moment. So I think the move was more one of desperation. I didn’t want to have to do it, but the humans forced my hand. Perhaps North’s incessant prompts to be violent softened my subconscious, as you say. It’s been a while since my playthrough, so I’m forgetting the exact details of how things unfolded, but that’s how I remember it. Whether North would have triggered it herself, I don’t know. My inclination is that she was deferring to me and probably would have lived (or died, actually) with my decision. I’m not sure though. Let me know if you find out! If I play again it will probably be a while

Of interest, at the time of my playthrough, only like 2% of people got my same ending. I think that number is right; I know it was in the single digits. I think it was probably because most people had either gone full violent or full pacifist by the time I reluctantly triggered the bomb to end it all Do you remember the percentage of players that got your ending?

But the emotional and ethical impact of the story is great. Yeah, it’s a little formulaic and predictable in its themes, but actually, how many games have tackled slavery and social uprising in this manner? I can’t think of any. Maybe Assassin’s Creed Freedom Cry and AC Liberation? I never played either of those, but I got the feeling they were about freeing slaves, but I’m pretty sure they don’t tackle the question of “What makes a person, a person? Who is deserving of individual rights, privileges, and liberty?” I like games for mindless fun but I also like to sometimes be challenged morally with something like this. The last game that made me ponder this much was NieR Automata, which ironically also centered around androids, but had quite a different but equally compelling narrative

I hope more people are able to enjoy Detroit Become Human. It really is one of PS4’s gems. With the direction Quantic Dreams is going, I’m not sure if we’ll get another game like this any time soon.

@Frigate Well, I’m not sure I completely understand the gaming industry, but my general feeling was Quantic Dream was reeling a bit in their business strategy lately. Their games have never set the world on fire sales-wise and thankfully Detroit was a decent retail success at 2 million copies, but it was largely overshadowed by God of War and Spider-Man last year, not to mention the multiplatform games like Red Dead 2, Far Cry, COD, etc.
Then we have the allegations from former employees about work conditions, the lawsuits and counter-suits... it sounds like a mess. Then on the heels of Detroit hitting market with a subdued splash compared to Sony’s darling GoW and the pending legal battles, they sell out to the Chinese investors. Well, they didn’t sell out completely, but NetEase bought a minority stake in the company. I could be wrong, but all this smacks of panic by the company. They spent tons of time and resources on Detroit, probably suffered a little bit in sales because of the lawsuits and had to do some PR repair and get their own legal counsel, which can’t be cheap ....and the announcement about NetEase and that they are going multiplatform in the future makes me think they will lose their ‘smaller studio’ independence and probably will end up being forced to make a Battle Royale online shooter or something ridiculous like that to make money. I’m exaggerating a little here, but I fear we may not get forward-thinking, creative, innovative, and artistic games like Detroit and Heavy Rain from them in the future. In my experience, when you get large corporate investors involved, they only want to see large profit margins, and that usually means following the big money, which rarely means letting people take a chance on something creative.

I hope I’m wrong.

@RogerRoger Yes, there was some reported issues at QD, and Cage and company have vehemently opposed the allegations. I’m caught somewhere between “where there’s smoke there’ fire” and “innocent until proven guilty” as far as my mind on it all. Actually I’m leaning a little more toward “innocent” since after QD’s public response denying much of what was reported, the issue has seemed to die off. Yet the change in corporate direction shortly following said issues has me to believe it’s not as simple as just a spurned former employee casting unfounded aspersions. I don’t know. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt usually. I actually hate how in today’s world of Twitter and Google that word travels fast and the court of public opinion in the mob mentality of the internet becomes “the truth” even when accusations are completely false. Usually the damage is done in the first few days of something going public and people never hear the end of the story on these legal battles.
I don’t bring it up to suggest support for or condonation of work place harassment. Nor do I want to give the impression that Cage and company are vile corrupt taskmasters. I’ll leave that to the judicial system and honestly I don’t know if I really even care that much. I just fear that the development of great games such as Detroit may be adversely affected. But as you say, Cage is probably not going to be easily swayed creatively from what he’s done for years.

In answer to the question of North - yeah, I think I let her keep the trigger and she presented it to me in the moment of our dire need. I can’t be sure of that because it’s been so many months ago but that’s how I remember it.

I’ll be curious to hear about Deus Ex. I have Mankind Divided in my PS Plus backlog, but honestly I haven’t prioritized it to be on deck anytime soon. If it sits well with you I may move it up the ladder a little more.