Topic: PS5 Rumour and Speculation Thread

So with the mid-gen refresh behind us, I've started thinking about how long till the PS5 comes out. We're already a couple years into this generation, and in theory the next gen shouldn't be more than say 4-5 years out at most.... but what could a PS5 really offer that would warrant being called a new generation?

4k TVs do not have good penetration into the market in general yet, and not too much demand really outside of enthusiasts. They'll slowly penetrate the market, sure, no doubt, but the Pro already does a decent job of servicing 4k. I can't see 4k compatibility being what a PS5 has to offer. 8k could become a thing, but I don't think in time for when the ps5 should release.

Which made me think, I wonder if instead of traditional generations they'll release a ps4 Pro+ or something, and go that route instead of traditional generations... or can they really get away with splitting the userbase and forcing a new PS5 console purchase just for better 4k support than the pro?

November, 2019. It'll definitely be outputting in 4K, but I genuinely believe virtual reality will be a big part of it. Will be interesting to see how people respond to that, but I'll be shocked if they just give up on VR — it has the potential to be so huge in my opinion, and the improvements they can make are so obvious yet very achievable.

Honestly, I feel that generations are over now. Instead of a new machine we are just going to see revisions every couple of years.

CNN interviewed Andrew House a few weeks ago and I think he said that consoles doesn't have to have a 5-6 years life span cycle and the Pro is a good upgrade for those who want a better gaming experience.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if we see a PS5 by November 2018. Yes 2 years from now!

By that time, the PS4 will be 5years old and whilst I do expect that most games and developers will still be supporting this system, I wouldn't be surprised to see a new generation released either. Sony are not a company that stops supporting its older consoles as soon as the new console is out but they are also not a company that waits until the last moment to bring something new out either. Just because they bring a PS5 out, doesn't mean the 5yr old PS4 is dead - this still allows a crossover period of a few years too. As 'good' as the PS4 is, it can't manage the full HD and consistent frame rates now so I can't see it improving over the next 2-3years when developers have much more powerful and more modern architecture to create games on.

4k and/or HDR TV's may not be the most common TV in peoples homes right now. However a few years ago, analysts predicted that 4k would be in 50% of peoples homes in the US by 2020 but with 4k and HDR now becoming much more accessible - the XB1s offers 4k HDR player and HDR games, the PS4 offers HDR games, the Pro offers (upto) 4k HDR games and of course the Scorpio is expected to offer (upto) 4k HDR as well. There are many people who have upgraded recently to 4k HDR TVs purely because of these consoles in the past few months so I wouldn't be surprised to see that those analysts were very conservative in the estimations. After all HDR requires a 4k TV.

I think that Sony will bring out the PS5 by Nov2018 (for the 2019+ games effectively). I am basing this more on what the PS4 can offer and the fact that the PS4 Pro is locked to this generation too - meaning that it won't get games that can't run on the older system. I am not factoring in the Scorpio, which could be a lot more powerful. The GPU alone at 6tflops is as powerful as the PS4 and Pro combined. Of course a lot is still unknown and what is known could still change between now and release. I don't expect Sony will sit back for a couple of years and be that 'under-powered' by comparison. I would also be very surprised if the Scorpio doesn't also have a 4k HDR Bluray player too - something Sony consoles can't offer and something I would expect to see on the PS5.

Sony's Mark Cerny spoke about 'generations' and Sony's future plans. Their next console will almost certainly be a new generation rather than some iterative option crossed with a next generation like Project Scorpio appears to be. Sony seem to be sticking to the traditional console cycles. I know they may have stepped out a bit with this iterative PS4 Pro hardware (nothing new in console history but new for Sony) but we have seen a lot of technological advancements that have 'aged' the PS4 far more quickly - VR, 4k HDR etc. The fact the 'Pro' has a lot of room to improve the experience in games running on 1080p screens - whether that's VR or TV's show how 'dated' and incapable the PS4 is. Not saying its useless and/or poor of course. I am not just referring to 'downsampling' higher resolutions to 1080p TV's - nice as that maybe but the difference the Pro can make to dedicated 1080p modes over the base PS4. This generation we are seeing more and more games using dynamic scaling as well as unlocked frame rates to try and get games to run more consistently. Games running at low-medium visual settings and still not able to hit 1080p and those that are at 1080p are generally only 30fps - or should that be upto 1080/30 but could be 900p or drop to 20fps (or less) - This is where we are at after 3years! Where could we be in a year? 2years?

Therefore I think we will see a PS5 in Nov2018 (I know some think that's too soon but I am sticking with my opinion), It will be a true 'next' gen console in the traditional sense and I wouldn't be surprised if its at least 8tflops (Cerny said recently that 8tflops is what is needed for 4k) maybe 8.4+ (double the Pro) with 12-16GB high bandwidth RAM and new (Zen or next) CPU and of course the 4k HDR Bluray player too.

I have committed this to the 'Thread' and in 2yrs time, we will see how accurate my predictions are...

I would have preferred to have seen a PS5 instead of the Pro with backward compatibility for the games. I know Sony have said the Pro will have no bearing on the introduction of the PS5 but I think it will end up delaying it by a few years. I think it will come 2020.

2021, I reckon. I think they'll try and make it last as long as possible, and suck the most out of the console as possible. Why not? It's been selling flippin' well. Plus, I don't think the console has lived up to its potential in terms of a games library as of yet, and that will take time. People are still getting used to the hardware even now, including me.

Typed 4K HDR into google 1st ad was Sony .co.uk.
Xbox 360 no blu ray.
Sony as a brand has most markets covered you could easily be playing your Blu Ray Film on a Playstation 4 on a Sony KD-75XD9405 .
There is no doubt Sony will have an ace up it's sleave when they give us the Playstation 5 Microsoft gambled that digital would be the future and Nintendo have announced cartridges if we do move away from Discs it will be up to Sony as microsoft found out with the Xbox 1 scrapping the dvd for the Blu Ray . (1 time it looked like Blu Ray was destined for the bin Sony won that 1.

HD 4K 4K High Dynamic Range (HDR) Sony again has this market covered

Sony even has your music covered .

There have been slip ups the Playstation 3 being the most obvious we are talking pricing (possibly because Sony had a Blu Ray } that was their downfall Here is something I am not proud of ............
I had the grey box that churned and cluttered its way through my games and bought titles like Final Fantasy 7 then the blockbuster darth vader like shell Playstation 2 that had thousands of games even when the playstation 3 was out for 2 years I was so much into my Playstation 2 I had forgot about the next gen {Pro evolution soccer was being slated on next gen } until GTA 4 came allong. I decided to look into next gen and being a Sony fan boy my 1st stop was the Playstation 3 but with the prices being far to high {Possibly because of Blu-Ray} I committed the ultimate sin and purchased a Microsoft X Box 360 I swear the Asda checkout girl did a haunting hahaha as I handed over 129 quid for an arcade version got home played GTA4 and all was good with the world I even got sucked in with the 360 and bought over 50 games.

Then Sony announced the Playstation 4 the price of Playstation 3 dropped and I got myself A Slim 320gb for 70 nicker second hand and to be honest I felt it was too noisey but it played all or most of my media Microsoft X Box 360 does not play MP4. most dissapointing not all Playstation 3 games would save the game install so the noise was such a distraction I did not enjoy gaming.
Playstation 4 had been out about a year and there were mutterings that the 500 gig hard drive was not enough so I held on for a 1tb 279 quid at Smyths with a copy of UNCHARTED: The Nathan Drake Collection wich was swiftly exchanged for Pro Evolution 2015. I am happy with the Playstation 4 its quiet ample storage capacity play station store has good offers there are games on that store that are not in the shops {Dark chronicles Final Fantasy 7) yes even this old goat has non physical games my best buy was Grand Ages: Medieval fot 10 pound and 30 pence And with Push square giving it a 7 it was a no brainer.
Sony has been a big part of my and probably your life and hopefully will well into the future now that the V.R. and Pro are out Sony should now think games .
Games are fun Gimmicks are noisey lets have fun gamers and heres to a future on Playstation 4 who has many years ahead . I hope
Final Fantasy 15 is the reason I purchased a Playstation 4 plus you can edit in Pro Evolution soccer.

PS5, sometime between end of 2018-end of 2019. No later than that for sure. That's not to say PS4 won't be supported until 2021 or whatever.

Damn, 2021. That's a futuristic date alright. Yet so close.

Give it 2 to 3 years and we should hear news about the PS5 from Sony with some ideas about what to expect. I don't think they're suddenly going to drop numbers from their consoles. Seems a risky thing to do but we'll see.
As for VR, I think it mostly depends on how this first iteration goes, Sony are pretty good at dropping support for something and forgetting it existed if it doesn't sell particularly well.

I think we will be lucky if the PS4 lasts until 2020. Again I am not saying its a 'bad' console - but look at how its 'struggling' to run games at locked HD resolutions and frame rates - even at 30fps in a number of cases. This is part of the reason we are seeing a mid-generational upgrade. The other option would be to move directly to the PS5 within the next year. Bringing out the Pro is not going to extend the PS4's generation beyond the capability of the base unit.

As I said earlier, I fully expect Sony to support the PS4 well into the PS5's generation. Sony have always (so far at least) supported the old generation for longer than other manufacturers and I don't expect this generation will be any different. I do wonder though if they will stop making the 'base' spec PS4 and offer a 'slim' Pro spec PS4. As such, I don't expect the PS5 to end the PS4 immediately but to offer a crossover phase for a few years whilst people transition to the new gen.

I don't expect that we will see a 'PS5 Pro' necessarily. Another more major reason we are seeing a PS4 Pro is because of the technological jumps we have seen in the last 3 years. Display technology has increased by 4x the resolution (4k) and also offering much greater contrast ratio, much wider colour gamuts and true 10bit colours too (HDR). Not only that, VR has been realised. Whilst PSVR may only have a HD 1080p screen, the additional processing needed to deliver increased frame rates, motion tracking with minimal/no Lag etc.

Looking ahead, If the PS5 can continue to deliver games to the standard of the technology they will be connected to, then there is no need to release a Pro version. If for example the games are giving us 4k HDR visuals at consistent and decent frame rates, what can a Pro realistically offer to justify its existence? A higher visual setting alone is nice but hardly worthy of upgrading too. I guess if we are getting a lot of 1800p checkerboard rendered games, running in native with higher settings maybe enticing. PSVR2 maybe another reason to bring out a Pro - depending on its specs (higher resolution screen, new and/or better tracking that requires more processing power?). The thing is though that these are a relatively minor jumps compared to 1080p screens to 4k HDR and bringing VR out.

Yes 8k TV's could be a reality as could 12bit colour and Dolby Vision HDR - the only real difference between HDR10 and Dolby Vision though in what we see is the 12bit colour - HDR10 has 10bit colour but could have the same peak brightness . Obviously there is a difference in how these operate - DV requires silicon to send and process the metadata on a frame by frame basis where as HDR10 is open source and the metadata is sent at the start for the whole content. Both these HDR formats though are minimum 4k and should also apply to 8k screens. Whether we see any significant difference between 4k and 8k on average sized TV's at average seating distances is debatable and I can't see 'gaming' reaching that level in the life-span of the PS5 anyway. Therefore the likelihood of a 'Pro' is minimal at best.

Sony are still (I believe) keeping to the traditional console generation format. Microsoft on the other hand look to be moving more towards a PC style, no generational upgrade path where every 3-4years, a new console will be released that plays all existing Xbox games, some at improved performance. Whilst many games will run on the older system, some will be 'new hardware' (like Scorpio) recommended (ie will run on old hardware to some degree) or minimum required 'new hardware' - like we see on PC games now.

PS5 will have to deliver some significant improvements over the PS4Pro if it is to justify the upgrade for existing users and entice new users. With that in mind I foresee the following as viable possibilities. My guess is that some of you guys can think of more and equally viable boosts.
Improved 3D visors (drop down mask or open visor for AR)
Vocal interactions with NPC instead of clicking responses options
3D & 4K Disc player
Haptic Gloves
4TB HDD
Most games download only. Only digital media, no Discs.

@nathanSF: I fully expect the PS5 to offer full native 4k, HDR and up to 60fps gaming from the very start - not upgrades/updates. This will of course just be downsampled to 1080p screens.

I really expect that it will also have a 4k HDR Bluray player too and that games will release on Disc as they do now. I cannot see this changing in 2-3yrs time as physical sales are still over 3x that of Digital. Its to much of a loss to remove that option and I see no reason that manufacturers would risk not giving gamers a choice - especially as the device will no doubt have a disc player.

Size of storage is an area I can see being improved on. Preferably increasing the size of Caddy to 3.5", whilst not helping the form factor, will offer so much more in terms of capacity.

Most of the other things you mention are not 'upgrades' per se - Voice commands are nothing new in essence but to offer a more dynamic conversation is almost a ridiculous expectation. Not only would developers need to put in an extensive vocabulary of every language the game is releasing in, they would also need to build in an exceptional AI that can determine the context of the spoken phrase as well as recognise all the many different accents and phraseology. That is very unrealistic to expect in the next generation and even attempting to do so would detract from any processing and memory requirements for the game. At most you can still expect the same dialogue options but with voice recognition determining which choice you picked. Still think pressing a specific button is quicker and essentially doing exactly the same.

Offering an AR visor as a peripheral could no doubt be offered now. It would take the HUD off the screen but at most I can see this being just an option. Knowing how people didn't want 'glasses' for 3D and some of the limitations of AR at the moment, getting it to synch perfectly with the screen - even if you move your head whilst watching - is no easy task. Last thing you want is the map blocking (or even overlaying) the centre of the screen.

Haptic gloves are another peripheral that essentially could be implemented now in essence. I certainly wouldn't expect these to be anything more than an option at best.

These last 3 though are nothing to do with Sony in essence. Yes they could build the last too as peripherals but unless developers build games to implement them, they are just 'gimmicks' and useless. Voice commands have been built into games before and again only if the developers want to implement them. Consoles over the past few generations have usually offered some microphone.

Each new generation tends to offer a significant improvement in power more than anything else. How developers use that or what it can enable (like going from 2D to 3D, increasing the size of Open World games without adding in loading screens or hidden loading (like walking through narrow, empty corridors between areas), proper day/night cycles and dynamic weather). The basic control scheme hasn't changed in years now but that hasn't meant the controller hasn't evolved. Maybe the DS5 will replace the touch pad with a touch screen with stereo speakers, trigger feedback/rumble - maybe even some paddles or buttons underneath.

I really don't expect to see anything uniquely different in essence - significant upgrades to the hardware that will enable developers to create more 'unique' games and experiences. We could see things like real-time growth for environments for example, towns/villages grow or fall further into ruin, Dead things decay whilst the living grow and that could also be impacted by our actions in game - cut down a tree for example and it decays but the wildlife around it grows... No longer will we see the same NPC at the same point in sawing a log, building a house etc these could progress! That is evolution of games and game development - not some gimmicky peripheral or loss of choice/features.

@BAMozzy: I have said before how I enjoy your comments informative non patronizing and generally straight to the point and finally on topic.

Your comment "We could see things like real-time growth for environments for example, towns/villages grow or fall further into ruin, Dead things decay whilst the living grow and that could also be impacted by our actions in game - cut down a tree for example and it decays but the wildlife around it grows... No longer will we see the same NPC at the same point in sawing a log, building a house etc these could progress! That is evolution of games and game development - not some gimmicky peripheral or loss of choice/features".

This would be very welcomed by myself and would be a big forward move in gaming.

Playing Pro evolution soccer season after season and no player ages feels like a Simpsons episode.

I have wanted this since the PSone days and I hope Playstation 5 will .

For the Players.

@Bhattiboy: Thank you

I think most people though find my posts to be nothing but a wall of text - not that I intend to change. I prefer to explain fully to avoid misinterpretation.

The 'evolving' world scenario is the next big step that could move gaming forward. We could see this in combination with Dynamic weather - snow falling and settling gradually turning the world white before slowly melting away and bringing with it the joys of spring - the sound of wildlife/birds etc as well as the trees growing leaves and the flowers coming into bloom. I get fed up visiting a village and seeing the same man sawing the same length log, still hasn't progressed despite the fact its been days! I get fed up with spending time in perpetual winter or summer and dynamic weather seems to make little difference overall but for the ambient lighting and visual effect these bring. As soon as the rain stops and the weather brightens, you have no indication it was raining a few minutes earlier.
I know that this is possibly beyond the technology we have available in consoles alone but with the power of the cloud, it could be a reality. They could use the processing of this to evolve games naturally. Take an online game like Destiny (not necessarily Destiny itself but the concept of it ) for example, the core environment (the map and shape) maybe would stay the same and for some the changes on a daily basis may seem minimal but for those that haven't played for months, the difference could be more pronounced as certain areas may well have more environmental growth. The snow in the plaguelands hasn't changed in depth yet I never see it snow or it melting in the sun.

I don't expect this type of feature to be necessarily in an offline game - I expect that would be more 'scripted' change but with the power of online servers and combined consoles, this could be achievable. More 'minor' changes like the Dynamic weather and the way it impacts on the environment though could be - like snow and melting, rain puddling and slowly evaporating, rivers swelling etc...

@BAMozzy: Sawing the same length of log for days - excellent. It's how I felt about my life playing Elder Scrolls Online and gave that up after a couple of months. As for the AR, a screenless, darkened room would be an alternative - to give you a virtual holodeck.
I did play a helluva lot of Destiny (co-op mostly)- with all the Expansions; weather patterns and day-night cycles would definitely still see me there.
The evolving world is a Brilliant Idea. But my feeling is some developers need to get the basic everyday logic into order. Take Destiny for example. In the tower there's been a robot with a broom next to a puddle since the game began. You'd think we'd have the tech to create robots that would notice that. Or have robots been unionised? "That is a puddle, not my job, I do broom work."
And why would the postmaster, a robot, need a computer screen, you'd think having the thing connected to the network for direct data communication would be a default feature. Or is there no wi-fi in the tower?
Speaking of which, the North and South Tower entrances have been crying out for a fresh coat of paint since the game began. And the obvious one - why is it that we can port up to the ship from a cavern or inside a building but not warp down the sparrow.
This got me thinking. Is lifelike weather possible for multiplayer? I mean having several people experience the same weather patterns from different points of view since each person would experience something different.. Static objects or particular effects like a gunfire missing someone in front of you but hitting you; building falling, landslide, is easy but with weather I wonder if a lot of compromises would perhaps be necessary that would add too much incongruity to some scenes, events? or just limit what each player experiences to the point where the inner logic of the game or 'suspension of disbelief' is broken.

Interesting reads from everyone.

I agree that I think they will focus on VR in the next major iteration. I expect a PSVR 2 to be potentially bundled with a console maybe or released at the same time. It will get rid of all the additional processing units and improve on visuals/controls etc. They are defo playing the long game with VR. The rest of the console will see an incremental improvement on hardware, will beat the scorpio but not significantly. As for when, I think another 2-3 years. 2019 at the latest. Another year or so after Scorpio. I expect BC for this next gen and they will support PS4 for a good few years after PS5 or whatevers launch. BC will also work on PSVR.

It is in Sony's interest to maintain generations more then it is in Microsofts.

@BAMozzy: Your welcome Sir.
The subject got me thinking and the only thing that kind of touches it is the Harvest Moon series by Natsume.

Not familiar with that series but expect its similar to some of Facebooks games where you plant a seed and at set intervals it loads up the next visual progression. For example after 10mins you get a shoot suddenly appear and ALL shoots of the same seed look the same, 10mins later, that shoot suddenly jumps to the next progression and so on until it suddenly reaches maturity. If you are there to Harvest, its great if not, after a set time, it goes beyond harvestable and you get a 'rotten; look instead. There is no real growth as such - just loading up a new asset each time at a set interval. What I am referring too is a real time growth were a certain amount of randomness occurs. Trees can take on there own unique shape instead of just 1-2 different shapes for each type. Seasons could be represented by deciduous trees changing colour through the autumn, losing leaves in the winter before growing new leaves and branches in the spring...
Deserted villages gradually become lost to nature and other villages becoming towns and pushing nature further back. The Witcher 3 has this in a very small way. If you clear a village of monsters, it becomes inhabited - they also recognise you for doing so but the village doesn't grow or change significantly. If you opt not to clear the village, the wildlife doesn't spring up and eventually engulf it, doesn't make the buildings fall into a state of disrepair etc. I would like to see that happen. If you clear a village, the new settlers build it up, expand etc - if not it falls to nature eventually leaving little evidence it existed unless you stumble over it whilst trekking through the woods but by then its too late to be 'populated' but the monsters could be more numerous having bred...

i'm inclined to agree with BAmozzy, and think that Nov 2018 could be a real possibility, or possibly Mar 2019, for PS5. i think the area most in need of a significant upgrade is the CPU. the jaguar processor in PS4/XB1 is not really fit for purpose (though AMDs next-gen CPU (zen) is architecturally quite different, so PS4 backwards compatibility might be an issue come PS5). ironically, i think if sony had gone with a dual-cell set-up (two PS3 CPUs with 14 SPEs - as they own most of the manufacturing plants, its production is extremely cheap) we'd see much much better framerate performance on games, though obviously wouldn't have benefitted nearly as much from the ease of development for PC/indie developers. the existing GPU is quite capable of delivering consistently good full-HD images.

for PS5, i'd be inclined to believe that developers will go even more nuts with gfx, effects, etc. and we'll still see games struggle to hit target resolutions/framerates. give them more resources, and they'll just find new ways to bottleneck them. 4K/60fps would have to be the target for a proper generational leap (though it'd actually be a tough sell when a significant portion of your target audience won't have a UHD TV set). in addition, it'll need to be capable of delivering the performance for the next iteration of PS VR, a headset with increased resolution, say 2x1440x1620 @ 90-120Hz. could be looking at a 10+ T/flops GPU (currently ~£500 in 2016), an 8-core 3.2-4.0 GHz CPU and 16gb GDDR5X RAM. the reliance on physical media isn't going to disappear anytime soon - console owners seem to have more of an attachment/collector mentality to tangible products, so a UHD (or high capacity blu-ray drive - some games are already more than 50gb after patches) will also be included.