Topic: The Push Square Football (Soccer) Thread

@dryrain: I'm an Everton fan too.

The atmosphere in Goodison is terrible these days. I travel back daily from Maghull via Goodison way to the Mersey Tunnel so go passed the general direction which fans of both Liverpool and Everton travel to and from games. Most of the fans are 40 plus year olds. I think younger people are priced out.

I'm gonna be honest - and this is the biggest problem. I earn above average wages for the area I work, an affluent area of Merseyside. Aaron Lennon earns the same amount I earn in a year in 3 days. That's preposterous.

@dryrain: I definitely agree with the walkout. Football's nothing without the fans, so why should they be overcharged? Ultimately, if prices are raised, it's going to impact the team negatively. If you look at the owner's website, they talk about "turning fans into customers" which just puts me off. £77 is about a day on minimum wage, which is insane. I know that's the premium ticket but it's still annoying.

Plus I was thinking of going up to Anfield with my dad to see a match at some point (I live on the South coast so I've never been before) but it looks like we'll have to postpone that, which sucks. We tried to get tickets to the Capital One Cup final, but they're expensive too. I would've thought the new expensive TV deals would lower prices, but it seems to have done the opposite.

@TripleGK We're in a bad place at the moment. Firmino's in excellent form, but Coutinho and Sturridge, arguably the best 2 players we have, haven't even had a chance to play together this season. I can't wait for when Firmino, Couts and Sturridge are playing together.

Also, who does everyone think will win Player of the Year this season? Mahrez is my pick, so far.

The problem is that if people buy the tickets regardless, the prices won't come down. £77 is outrageous, but as long as Anfield, Old Trafford, and the Emirates remain full - and they will - then why would the suits ever drop the prices?

I don't know the statistics of how many seats are £77 in the new Anfield stage and what the average price of a ticket is. I know £77 seems a lot to me but how does that compare with a 'box' or other grounds? Is the average price at Anfield going to be more than at Old Trafford, the Etihad or the Emirates for example? Comparing Season Ticket Prices to Germany or France is a bit off in my opinion. I know its more expensive in the UK but so it seems are our Transfer prices.
If there are only a 100 seats that are at £77 but the average is comparable to other clubs in the top half of the EPL then I don't really see the issue but if the average is above these by a significant margin, I understand why people are upset. I know I wouldn't pay £77 to watch my favourite team lose a 2 goal lead at home and put in some very average performances!
If Liverpool were the force they once were and had more world class players on the pitch instead of mid table (at best) players, I think paying £77 for the best seat in the house wouldn't be so much of an issue - at least for some people. Those on minimum wage can still get in to see LFC in one of the other seats. I know that the prices range from £9 upwards - although I think the £9 seats are for kids.

Its not just about the fact that there will be 200 seats at £77 its the general high price of tickets. The new TV deal give them an increase of 50% on the income which they have not factored into their business its gone into a separate pot.

@Anchorsam_9: Mahrez is my shout for POTY, he's played some fantastic football and plays the game the way I love, taking people on, dribbling, direct football in essence. Scored a cracking goal against Man City too.
As an Aston villa fan, this year has been awful as you can expect, we can't even get someone to buy the club! 😂

@Hego: Don't worry, you can probably expect to pick up a point or 3 against us next week when our defence falls asleep again.

Also on the topic of ticket prices, I think that the Premier League should follow in the Bundesliga's example. It's easily the best league for fans in the world thanks to low ticket prices because they realise that fans make the sport, not money. I remember seeing a quote from the Bayern Munich chairman who said something along the lines of: "We could raise ticket prices to £300 and we could make an extra £2 million, but what's 2 million to us? £2 million gets argued over 5 minutes in the transfer window, but for fans £300 is a much bigger sum. We don't treat our fans as cows and try and milk them. That is the biggest difference between us and England" That's the kind of attitude I wish more English clubs had

@anchormansam_9 The German league treats its fans well. Across Europe fans are treated better than they are in England.

Playing Devils Advocate, although the clubs earn a lot of money from TV, sponsorships, gate revenue etc, the overheads (wage bill - not just for the 14 players you see on the pitch but the rest of the squad, the managers, the backroom staff, the youth etc, the cost of running all their facilities - training grounds, youth pitches etc, transportation of players etc, policing of matches etc) are high - very high!
Money in is not always guaranteed either - certain money maybe a little more guaranteed than other income. Short cup runs, no European football etc is certainly going to hit their potential income too. I doubt Anfield will be full in the early rounds of the capitol 1/fa cup against a league 2 side playing our u21's and yet the costs are going to be similar to a capacity crowd.
I understand that some of the Tickets are subsidised by the cost of the more expensive seats - enabling LFC to give some local kids a chance to get into the ground for nothing, others for a low cost comparatively. These seats could easily be priced and sold for an Adult and maybe bring the cost down of the more expensive seats too.
Its a catch 22, We want to be able to buy the best players and pay their wages, increase the number of tickets for kids and local people etc but unwilling to contribute to building the club up. Its not like FSG are as rich as Abramovich or qualifying for the CL every year.
Like I said I am playing a bit of Devils Advocate here and I don't have all the facts either and certainly no information on other clubs, ticket prices, income/expenditure breakdowns etc.
But 1 question I would ask though, Would you pay a few pounds more per person per match IF that money went into investing into the Team? Purchasing players, paying wages etc to get back into the CL every year and challenging for ALL cups and top spot in the league? Again I don't know where this 'money' is going but if it was going directly into improving the team, would the fans be more accepting of these prices?

@dryrain: Amen to that. I've been to a German league game in Berlin and it works out much cheaper, plus the atmosphere's better because more fans can go. I just wish English clubs thought that way.

@BAMozzy I see where you're coming from, but I still find it hard to believe that, just like the Bayern chairman said, a couple million really makes a difference to the club as much as a ticket price increase would to a fan. What many clubs (and companies in general) don't seem to realise is that, if you treat your fans well, they'll repay you. Bayern keep their prices on the cheap, and they can still afford to spend tens of millions on new players, so why is the BPL any different? Lower the prices, and more things will sell. As the club gets more popular, sponsors will pay more to get on the shirt and TV channels will pay more to access a bigger audience. I don't know much about business, but I kind of feel that this works.

@BAMozzy: "I doubt Anfield will be full in the early rounds of the capitol 1/fa cup against a league 2 side playing our u21's and yet the costs are going to be similar to a capacity crowd."

Its always full. If Steven Gerrard came out on a Monday morning and took a dump on the pitch thousands of people would turn out and proclaim it to be the best dump ever. It always full every game.

"policing of matches"

Paid for by our taxes

"although the clubs earn alot of money"

Liverpool FC have the 8th highest turnover of cash in world club football, the sums of money we are talking about is the gdp of some countries. Until last year when plans were finally announced the ground was a relic, they put negligible cash back into the community and the surrounding area was (arguably still is) a ghetto. How can you have tens of millionaires without a worry in the world less than 100 yards from a struggling family on the breadline?

I see your points - but they are completely invalidated by the fact other huge football clubs and countries football cultures are more rewarding to their fans than our own and pay for the same facilities and staff. The reason transfer budgets and wages are so high is because this countries fans pay through the nose to watch a game and subscribe to sky.

"Short cup runs, no European football etc is certainly going to hit their potential income too."

Most big clubs factor in going out in the 3rd round of the fa cup, losing in the early stages of the other cup and being knocked out early in the champions league. Clubs which have gambled with their finances such as Leeds, Portsmouth and Plymouth Argyle all suffered with accounting irregularities and individuals taking cash from the clubs for themselves - such as loaning money to the club with crazy high interest. The big elephant in the room with this subject is the financial fair play rule, every club can only pay to its means so if every club had its fans interests at heart we wouldn't have mercenaries holding clubs to ransom. But that's not the case and fans have to walk out.

@Anchorsam_9: You're not wrong but you're also naive. There are a finite number of seats in a stadium, so as your fanbase increases, demand for the tickets goes up. You can't simply "manufacture" more tickets to sell like you can mugs and shirts, so therefore with increased demand comes higher price points.

I'm not sure how the business model at Bayern Munich works, but a few other things to consider: Premier League is the most globally appealing league in the world. That adds to the demand (and thus increases the prices). Premier League is also more competitive than any other league, where Bayern Munich are virtually the only "force" in their respective league.

It's also worth mentioning that, if I understand correctly, Bayern Munich is essentially publicly traded - the fans all "buy" into the club. If you've got the billions to buy out the likes of the Glazers and Abramovich, then you're welcome to purchase a club and put it in the fans' hands. I'm not sure it would be the best investment ever, though!

@iDangerMouse_: I have a feeling Spurs might actually win against Man City, with Alli in crazy form I can honestly see it happening. Leicester will probably win as well, considering they're somehow getting better!

By the way, on the topic of ticket prices, I found this really funny interview with a fan who gets pretty angry by the end of it. https://streamable.com/4o5x (contains swearing, if you care about that)

Spurs to beat Man City as much as they have spent on the defence they are vulnerable at the back and with spurs good defense they should win or at the least a draw.

Leicester I think will beat Arsenal. Every season Arsenal show promise. The excuse used to be that they were a young side now I think it is that they are inconsistant and choke.

Spurs 2 - 1 City
Leicester 2 - 2 Arsenal

Spurs 3-1 City
Leicester 2-0 Arsenal

Was sad to see Leicester lose but they did well to hold on for so long. Really the loss was of their own making sending off was right and free kick was a stupid error so late in the game.

But the moment of the weekend for me was Messi's penalty to have the confidence to pass the ball rather than shoot was something special. If it has failed then it would have looked stupid but it worked and Suarez scored. Pure magic from the great Messi.

@iDangerMouse_: I think it's between Tottenham and Leicester now. Man City are looking out of form, and Arsenal with inevitably make it hard for themselves. Leicester have the easier run-in, but Tottenham have a really solid defence, a deep squad with tons of reliable subs, and some really competent attackers. The North London derby in March is going to be huge!

On another note, Liverpool looked a lot better with Sturridge on the pitch yesterday. Admittedly it was against Aston Villa, who I honestly feel sorry for at this point, but I'm so glad Sturridge, Origi, and Coutinho are all back. Can't wait to see them play more.

Was great to see my team hit six - albeit against a poor villa. Great to see Courtinho and Sturridge back, Origi too but the link up play between the front 3 was great. Timing can't be better for us with Augsburg (twice) and the final as our next 3 games. Hopefully have a few more defenders back from injury too. Matip to join in the summer as well...

Barcelona and in particular Messi though are incredible. Some people are criticising that penalty as 'disrespecting' the opposition but Cruyff did it (ex-Barcelona player/manager) and some of the 'tricks' (Cruyff turn) to bamboozle defenders. Neymars flick was great too, it got him out of tight situation and kept possession. Not only is it entertaining, its effective as well. Disrespecting the opposition in my view, is where you could score but choose not too and instead just opt to keep possession - to the point that you stop the ball from crossing the line. Is it disrespectful to humiliate a team by scoring 6+ goals?? It also showed how much more of a team player and unselfish Messi is. You don't get Ronaldo passing the ball - you don't see Messi sulking if a team mate doesn't pass but scores himself...

@TripleGK: Schalke have now confirmed that Matip will be leaving to join LFC at the end of the season! Disappointed we couldn't do the deal in January as I think that would seriously have helped us in the business end. With our weakness at defending set-pieces, it could have made the difference in several games we have played - West Ham FA Cup for example. Not only does he have a great record in defending, he also poses a big threat on our own set-pieces too. His ability to play in CDM can't be overlooked either. Maybe in big games we will see him play there, with 2 defenders behind him. We could be very difficult to break down...

Being knocked out of the FA cup could be a blessing in disguise. Instead of 4 games to play in Feb, we now have 3 left. Next we travel away to Augsburg before a the home tie against them a week later. City have 2 away ties Chelsea and then a long trip to Dynamo Kiev on the Weds before meeting us in the final. Although they have an extra day preparing, they have more games in a shorter time as well as more travelling. We could have a lot more players fit for that final too with Skrtel, Lovren, Lucas, Lallana etc back. I doubt we will see Gomez again this year but Ings could feature before the end of the season as he started out-door work at the beginning of Feb - Obviously I doubt we will see him for a while. I know its great to have Coutinho and Sturridge back but I also think we need our defenders back too.

After this weeks results, 5th is certainly not out of the equation - just 3pts away - and that's a Europa place. Unless we win the Europa itself, I doubt we can get a CL spot. With so many important games to play now, its great we have our best players. It would be great to get a 'good' result in Augsburg and be able to rest a few key players for the final.