Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

@KAIRU Yes in part, but I've also heard similar things about other games too.

My copy arrived! Only played about an hour so far and basically made almost no progress because of all the Pokemon in the first area you are in. A great problem to have!
And like... yeah. It is so weird, because objectively, it looks like ***** and performance is some of the worst I have ever experienced. Everything chugs, the only time anything isn't chugging is when you stand still, but that seems to be because the game basically despawns everything, even textures, from like 10 centimetres out of your body. Plus, you add to that the static animations, lack of voice acting and it just all feels really rough.

Yet, there is something just so compelling about catching Pokemon. I can't even properly articulate that sense of joy I feel at seeing a new design. I haven't done anything yet but walk down a path and I'm already having a great time and I am itching to go back and play some more. The Lets Go mechanic is a really great QOL improvement, as is the way you manage and heal your party right from the top menu. I also love the bookshelf Pokedex.

On the performance side again, it is also weird, because textures especially are so inconsistent. A pokemon will have like a rich detail of texture like on their skin or something, but then I dunno, they move their eyelid or something and it looks like the texture hasn't even loaded in yet. My character stands in a shirt you feel like you could reach out and touch, while the world around them looks like a water colour painting. I guess they are prioritising the things that matter the most maybe? But it just makes all the bad stuff seem extra bad.

Pokemon is one of the few franchises that remains a traditional turn based JRPG. It may just be a lack of evolution on their part, but as someone who doesn't enjoy the Xenoblades or the Tales of the world because of their weird hybrid battle systems, Pokemon always calls me back because of that traditional foundation.

I said something very similar the time. It feels like Arceus took out everything the fans claimed to be fatigued with in a Pokemon game, to try out new features, but then ran out of time after they designed the real time Pokemon catching and so they just slapped an MMO style fetch quest into every location to give the game something.

It honestly gets kinda exhausting on the other side of the pond at Nintendo Life. The sheer amount of copium from some folks around the Switch. I think some people fear that being critical of something makes them somehow less of a fan of something, so they'd rather pretend the Switch problems aren't there and just mindlessly gush about the benefits rather than admit to themselves that for as good as the Switch has been, it is now actively holding back titles from achieving their greatness. And the sad thing is, given the general scuzziness of Nintendo, I wouldn't be surprised if they drop a Switch successor at the end of the year and rerelease basically all the games that have come out in the last couple of years at a higher frame rate and resolution and charge us full price all over again.

It does feel like that with Nintendo especially. I feel like Nintendo gets away with things both by games media and by general game fans that just simply wouldn't fly under any other branding. I also feel that while Nintendo can release really good games, the slapping of the Nintendo logo onto it seems to always get people to boost it up to apparent masterpiece level that it doesn't deserve. Although I do think Sony gets away with this a bit too, I'll often play a Sony published game and be like "this is really good, but I'm not sure it is 10 out of 10 good".

Ok I'm convinced now: this is the best Pokémon game ever made. As soon as I was done with the tutorial section and arrived in the open world section, the game went from great to phenomenal. The sheer scope of the open world is unprecedented in a Pokémon game. You can go anywhere and there's so much you can do. There are basically three main quests in the game: gyms, titans and squads. In total, there are 18 objectives: 8 gyms, 5 titans and 5 squads to defeat. On top of this, you have tons of wild Pokémon to capture and fill out your Pokédex. Not to mention that there are items to be found literally everywhere. There's so much to do and discover in the game, it's just a completely different experience from what I'm used to with a Pokémon game. Typically, a Pokémon game takes 20 hours for me to complete but I can easily see Scarlet/Violet taking more than 50 hours.

I think it's safe to say that I'm addicted.

No major issues so far in Scarlet, although I'm still early in the game. The tutorials in these games are always so tedious that it takes me forever to get through them.

@JudgeDredd @Pizzamorg I don't mind people being critical of Switch hardware if they're able to articulate their feelings in a constructive way. Sometimes I echo those frustrations.

What annoys me is people feeling like others need to legitimize THEIR OWN frustrations, even if they don't share them. If I don't pretend to care about the things you care about, or even disagree with your complaints, that's not "coping," it's just disagreement, and if you're unable to grant me even a basic level of respect with regard to my intentions, communications are obviously going to quickly break down/become unpleasant.

And for the record: Pokemon Scarlet/Violet are a mess because GF is a flawed developer. Even their older games on GBC/NDS/3DS/etc. had bugs, issues with slowdown, etc. They could develop a game for PS5 and, assuming everything else stayed the same, it would still be an unpolished mess.

@JohnnyShoulder I think it's more that, barring truly wretched stuff, many critics tend to judge games on a 7 - 10 scale. Also, people have learned to have one set of standards for Pokemon games, and another for literally everything else out there.

Which isn't to say some games don't benefit from aggressive fanbases. We've seen what happens to reviewers who give games like God of War Ragnarok and Zelda BotW somewhat lower scores. I doubt that's happening with Pokemon, though, considering most of the complaints issue from or are echoed by the hardcore fanbase.

And, y'know, it's not JUST a Pokemon thing. Bethesda and From Software games often tend to suffer from horrible performance issues, bugs, etc. and still manage to score well. Much better than Pokemon games tend to, frankly. So it's a longstanding issue.

@kyleforrester87 All of the games from Sw/Sh onward have a cut dex. I'm sure most people have just decided it's not worth screaming about anymore. Pokemon fans have learned to either deal or move on from the franchise. Given how well these games continue to sell, I'm guessing most decided to deal.

Playing in handheld is definitely a better experience, I don't know whether it just hides rather than genuinely improves the framerate and rough edges to the visuals, but ultimately the result is the same. That said I do feel like I get additional microstutters in handheld which I either didn't get while docked - or just didn't notice because I was distracted by everything else.

I feel like I triggered something very personal here and I am sorry.

However, I still don't fully agree - I hope I don't offend further!

When it comes to the Switch, the hardware issues are rarely just a matter of opinion, you can tell people those hardware issues don't bother you personally, but that doesn't mean the hardware issues aren't an objective fact. That is where the line is often crossed for me on Nintendo Life, rather than in the other direction. People who say they aren't bothered by hardware issues and then pretend like the hardware issues aren't there period. This to me is cope.

@Ralizah Yeah there are toxic sets to most fan bases pretty much everywhere, be it in gaming, sports, TV & films etc. Just hope we are not getting to the stage where it affects people being able to give an honest critique.

@JohnnyShoulder Toxic fandoms suck, but I think the issue of review scores and reviewer honesty are more structural in nature.

The problem with our current system of relying on review score aggregators is that outliers who provide critiques outside of the mainstream viewpoint are singled out by default. Even worse when you have big studios doing stuff like giving out bonuses when games hit certain metacritic thresholds, since extreme outliers can have an outsized effect on the score itself.

How it must suck to be a critic, play the latest God of War, Uncharted, Mario, Zelda, or what have you, and suddenly think: "This really isn't all that great, is it?"

@nessisonett I've seen a number of these amazing, Bethesda-tier bugs being posted on social media.

@Pizzamorg I'm neither "offended" not "triggered." And, by the way, I'd appreciate it if we lay off dismissive language like that. Let's talk to one-another as equals.

Most of the regular users on NL are perfectly well aware of the limitations of the system. If anything, it's the people who like to come in from other communities and whine about the capabilities of the system who often betray a lack of any sort of mature perspective on the issue.

Last gen, I primarily played AAA games on my PC at higher resolution and framerate targets than what the home consoles were capable of outputting at the time. But I didn't go into dedicated communities designed for fans of those systems and troll about how weak and incapable they were compared to my rig, or how [insert framerate/resolution target] is "unacceptable" in [current year]. It's profoundly childish behavior, y'know?

Anyway, you said:
"People who say they aren't bothered by hardware issues and then pretend like the hardware issues aren't there period. This to me is cope."

Not being bothered by a fact and pretending a fact doesn't exist are two ENTIRELY different things. I've seen the former happen many times, but, for the life of me, I don't recall the latter ever happening. Care to reference an example?

Nintendo Life's review made it sound like the opening part of Scarlet was a slog, but it went by really quickly for me and I'm already in the open world carving my path. The map is so big and full of things to see and do, I can see why people have felt addicted to this so quickly!

Thanks to picking the fire starter I creamed my first gym challenge which was the bug gym leader. The little olive challenge you do beforehand is weird, but pretty funny. Not done much else yet, just enjoying myself exploring and finding/catching various Pokemon.

My apologies. Your post came across very strong, so I thought I hit a nerve. If I hadn't, then my bad!

The rest of the post I am not fully sure what you are referencing, me or generally? Cause I am a regular of NL, we have spoken loads of times over there 😂 I have never gone onto that forum only to talk about the weakness of the hardware, but if it is pertinent to a discussion - such as with the new Pokemon game, it is of course raised.

If you are speaking generally, then yeah, people joining that forum to talk about how the console sucks would suck, but I am not sure I have ever experienced that either?

(I also ain't trawling the forum to find you the countless examples of cope over there on NL as much as you won't show me the evidence of proverbial invaders).

@Ralizah I think the fact that I can’t even see who you’re replying to probably says a lot. Also the fact they clearly speak in buzzwords like ‘cope’ and ‘triggered’. The best thing about these forums is the ability to have mature conversations and if someone can’t do that, then it’s not really worth engaging!

@Pizzamorg It's fine. Tone can be hard to detect on the internet.

Anyway, I'm not passive-aggressively making digs at you. We've talked plenty of times, and I've frequently defended your posting style, since I do think there is some value in people offering critical viewpoints on any forum as long as they're not overly inflammatory, and your posts usually aren't. I didn't mean to 'other' you or imply you weren't also a regular.

In terms of trolls, I was thinking of... other users, who would go onto NL, make inflammatory posts, receive pushback, and then run off to their usual haunts to cry about it. Although they seem to mostly have moved on at this point.

All the same, I do think your particular complaint in this thread isn't... well, based in reality. I don't need you to trawl for specific examples. If it happens enough to be worth mentioning, then surely you can provide a basic anecdote about this happening, right?

There's a difference between denying reality and accepting the limitations of a piece of hardware. What I frequently see is people trying to spread discontent about how the hardware operates, and Nintendo fans pushing back against that. I don't really see Nintendo fans outright denying objective facts about how the platform operates, though.

Is there some fanboyish behavior on NL? Sure. There's plenty here as well. It's probably inevitable in any fan community.

@nessisonett You know, it's interesting. I have a TON of people on my ignore list, but very rarely do I not see full conversations on forums like NL or PS. Probably a good sign.

It's been useful for making article comment sections tolerable, though.

I beat my first Titan! It was kinda... nothing really? Just a bigger version of a regular Pokemon and it had no level so I was fighting it with a level 4 Flamigo I picked up along the way (I can't believe the game includes a literal Flamingo btw with it just taking one letter out of the name).

I'm catching quite a lot of weird Pokemon on my journey already, I dunno how much are exclusive to this generation or not, but I'm creating quite the carnival of freaks.

I also thought that Crystal form thing was kinda nothing in the lead up, and it is kinda silly with the hat, but I actually quite like the effects it adds to attacks and the dramatic shattering when the Pokemon faints. I miss Dynamaxing though.

Had you asked me a year ago, I probably could have. However, I long discovered it is a lost cause to discuss such things over there. People will put their backs up and the discussion just circles the drain, so I have mostly tried to avoid such discussions on there unless it is started by someone else and everyone is on the same page (like over in the Pokemon thread - although I dodge that now, because some people threatened to post stuff now the game was out and I don't want any spoilers).

There is a reason I have so many people on my ignore list on NL and vice versa, I clashed with a lot of people there who only want to see the good and don't want to even face the idea the bad exists. I guess some would say it commendable, I just found it a graveyard for any kind of proper discussion about anything.

Although if that person you tagged me has me on their ignore list or the other way around, I don't remember why, I don't remember who they are at all 😅

I'm about a third in the game I think, and it has already hard crashed three times.

LMAO. Apparently if you plug in two controllers and push forward on both you can run twice as fast. They keep outdoing themselves.

https://mobile.twitter.com/munosnail/status/15942925388983214...

Here's the expectedly harsh DF breakdown of Scarlet/Violet. To dispel that 'weak Switch can't handle big open world games' narrative some people are adopting to defend the game, they compare and contrast it with titles such as Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Breath of the Wild, and Game Freak's own Pokemon Legends: Arceus.

It's a shame, because Scarlet/Violet do seem like fun games, despite everything. I wonder if we'll eventually hear Cyberpunk 2077-esque reports about crunched developers desperate to string a coherent product together to meet a deadline.

@Octane You see a buggy, unfinished game rushed out to launch.

I see a speedrunning strat.

@Ralizah Crazy seeing it next to Arceus, it looks really rough. Arceus had its problems but I thought it actually looked pretty nice a lot of the time, especially the sky and some of the lighting.

@kyleforrester87 It really is a step down in almost every way. Arceus looks better (the trees are still pretty ugly, but I only expect so much from this dev), performs MUCH better, was relatively bug-free, had greater draw distances, was significantly higher res both docked and undocked, featured responsive gyro aiming for when you threw a pokeball, and, of course, really shook up the entire gameplay loop of Pokemon, where you could catch Pokemon out in the field instead of being yanked to a separate battle screen every time, had to avoid being ambushed by wild Pokemon, etc. It was also surprisingly tough for a Pokemon game.

If you married all of those improvements to a game with multiple towns, gym battles, etc., you'd have close to an ideal 3D Pokemon game. Which Scarlet/Violet could have been if they'd been allowed to develop something according to a more realistic timetable.

@Ralizah SV doesn't have the option to throw Poke Balls at wild Pokemon, that's fine by me. You can however throw out your first Pokemon to auto-battle wild Pokemon.

What's annoying is that they removed the aim option that was present in Legends. You press R and you throw your Pokemon in a random direction. That's fine if there's one Pokemon on the overworld, but if there are a dozen, you cannot aim in a specific direction. This game is literally one step forward, ten steps backwards.

@Octane I've been making heavy use of Let's Go mode. It's useful and, honestly, pretty hilarious at times. The first time I used it was particularly amazing: my Pokemon ruthlessly slaughtered an entire wild tribe of Lechonk, and then proceed to hunt down and kill, via surprisingly protracted chase, a terrified straggler that attempted to flee from the carnage.

And yeah, the lack of pokeball aiming is pointless and annoying. It makes trying to target Pokemon in trees a pain. Why take that out? The aiming in Legends: Arceus worked perfectly!