Sony has commented on the PlayStation 5 for the first time, telling a German website that it will release a next-gen console – albeit not any time soon. The platform holder was asked about the PlayStation 4 Pro, and whether the mid-gen device will eventually get any exclusive software. Big-wig Shawn Layden reaffirmed that all of its PS4 games will continue to run on the base model, as it sticks to the tried and tested generational format that the industry is accustomed to.
There has been some speculation that generations may be dead, as hardware manufacturers like Sony and Microsoft adopt rolling console revisions instead, similar to what you see in the smartphone space. But in the interview, Layden is adamant that a PS5 is on the way, although he cautions that “it will probably be some time”.
So when can we expect a next-gen PlayStation platform? If you look at how Sony revised its product line three years into the generation last year, common sense suggests that 2019 would be the right time for a PS5. However, the manufacturer may need to wait for meaningful technical advances, so it could end up being 2020. One thing’s for sure, though: the console will already be in production behind-the-scenes.
[source golem.de]
Comments 104
Good stuff. While it won't be very soon I expect it'll be incoming sooner than Sony would like us to believe at this point.
Still, no big rush required, especially what with the recent Pro update.
It was positively depressing playing new releases on last gen hardware toward the end of that cycle, as long as it doesn't get like that this gen I am happy.
I'm in no rush for them to release a PS5. There's still a lot of life left in the PS4.
i dunno in about 3 years time maybe, once the XBX tech is "old" and Sony can release the next most "powerful" system on the market
i reckon that from now on MS and Sony will stagger their systems ie: PS5 launches, 3 years later next XBOX launches, 3 years after that the PS6 etc, etc
Better not be for a long time lol haven't had my pro for even a year
It'll be interesting to see how the games will be branded and whether they'll work on PS4 too as most modern games are built with scalability for PC versions anyway. We've definitely moved into an area of diminishing returns with regards to what these are capable of with the X being a huge leap in power over the standard One, yet we don't really have the gulf in graphics that we did in previous generations.
Me personally I'd much rather they used the extra power to make environments much more interactive and intricate as opposed to simply drawing more pixels as is the norm. In either case it'll be some time before a PS5 and the 4 has plenty of life left in it yet
I personally think the release of a ps5 will depend on market penetration of 4k TVs. There is a previous thread about this in the forums, https://www.pushsquare.com/forums/ps_general_discussion/ps5#reply-01
I would be happy if Sony were to release the PS5 in Q4 2018. I know that may seem 'too soon' for some - at the 5yr anniversary of the PS4 generation (of which the Pro is very much locked to). I would love to be playing Sony's upcoming exclusives at full 4k with full 4K assets, Dolby Atmos etc. The pro is a decent halfway step to 4k but it is very much rooted to the PS4. Its still 'just' a PS4 (like a Slim upgrade) - albeit with a bit more oomph under the hood.
It was always going to happen so this news isn't surprising at all. Mark Cerny spoke about the Playstation sticking to the generational format back before the Pro actually launched. He indicated then that Sony would be building a 'next' gen console which in fairness has been much clearer than MS with the Xbox One X. On the one hand MS are saying the 'X' is just a more powerful XB1 but saying they are doing away with generations and VR games/headset is exempt from parity too...
They should just wait. Even if they released something in 2020 itd probably still be hard to distinguise from the ps4. Just wait until they can make a huge leap. The ps4 is good enough. Just focus on making amazing games. Open up some more game dev studios or whatever. Get more game made.
E3 2018 will be the tell. If they announce a lot of new PS4 games for 2019 then PS5 in 2020, if they mostly talk about the same games they've been talking about the last 2 years, half of which still probably won't be out yet, then PS5 in 2019.
I was 1 of those people who thought consoles were dead when Wii U bombed but PS4 will hit 80m, so you make PS5. Native 4k, including disc drive this time, maybe 2TB hdd. $399 again, worked well this time.
I'm sticking to my prediction: 2019 reveal, 2020 rollout.
There's a lot of life left in the PS4, especially as Sony seem hellbent on cracking 100million.
https://www.vg247.com/2017/06/21/sony-says-spider-man-has-the-power-to-help-them-reach-100-million-units-in-console-sales-by-bringing-new-people-into-gaming/
The majority doesn't need more powerfull consoles but more innovation in games, IMHO. Everything comes down to games at the end of the day, ever was and ever will.
I am happy Sony are committed to no pro exclusives.
An issue that comes up time and time again is frame rate and every new console promises to fix it.
I think 2020-2021 I do think they will do a second screen idea
tech advancements have slowed down and price is to high. I would love to see a bigger jump when the PS5 hits. 4K 60 FPS or just hold off. Checkerboarding is fine if needed. Top line 4K HDR TV's need to hit sub 1k price mark also!! HDR on 1080P would help also.. 100% keyboard support More USB ports around 2020.
after reading this , start saving money
@BAMozzy It would be too soon to offer a true 4k system (which is going to be the yardstick) that offers a substantial generation leap over PS4 while been around the $399 mark. Leave till 2019 at the earliest for tech to mature and get cheaper while getting some of their studios to have games ready. Personally 2020 is better cos the last of PS4's big exclusives (TLOU 2 and Death stranding) should be out by then.
duh
Day one.
@Gmork___ Jumping up from a PS4 HD console to a 4k console is a big leap. Just because the Pro can give a bit higher resolutions but still limited to HD textures etc is immaterial - its still a PS4 and at the end of the day, not something that should be taken into consideration as its life span will effectively be determined by the 'inferior' hardware.
Its not just 'resolution' that can be upgraded, but also all the assets and audio. The CPU is still a 'weak' point too and the Pro doesn't have much of a 'boost' here or in its RAM. The GPU is enough to offer 'double' the resolution although more often than not, we actually get less than double (1440 and 1800p Checkerboard but 2160p Checkerboard is double at 2x1080p). What we are seeing is PS4 level of assets but with a slight boost in output resolution. A game like Tekken doesn't offer better than HD visuals on the Pro either.
Therefore when Sony bring out its PS5, I fully expect it to offer the full 4K with RAM to offer 4K assets/textures etc and a CPU that can keep up with the games with no bottlenecking. Its not just 'gaming' though that can see a big leap but also the Multi-media aspects too. As stated the leap would still be significant compared to a Pro, but compared to the PS4, that would be much more of a leap.
If they build it right, the chances are we could see a 4k console that doesn't give us the choice between a higher resolution at 30fps or PS4 (1080p) visuals at 40-60fps but the choice between a native 4k/30 or checkerboard 4k/60 - still full 4k image with 4k assets...
I fully expect Sony to bring out their PS5 that can offer 'true 4k' gaming (with 4k assets), 4k HDR bluray and Atmos, Game VRR etc - the only question is when...
I would be actually mad if they made one before 2020.
A safe bet is Sony will have a reveal event early 2020 & then launch November 2020
If PS5 at the very least keeps Remote Play support (for whatever releases it will eventually stop sharing with PS4 and Switch), count me in.
If PS5 is beefed up in the right way to provide full digital/physical BC with at least two previous generations (and I suppose it would be powerful enough to emulate PS2 with relative ease as well, not to mention PS1) AND keeps Remote Play support, count me in.
If PS5 follows Nintendo's suit (like Sony has often done in the past, even trying the "second screen" feature at some point) to become a hybrid system, count me in.
If PS5 does none of the aforesaid, count it in my "will maybe get when I'm retired" distant wishlist bin together with PS3, Wii U and the whole Xbox lineup. Native 4k and VR alone can do nothing to make me play more, let alone interest me more.
But still, PS4 feels like the console that broke PlayStation home line out of the "affordable interactive home theater" reputation zone into being largely about GAMES indeed, so I dare expect Sony to capitalize on that further.
@Fight_Teza_Fight Sony's on one hell of a run right now. The PS3 got a lot of flack in the beginning, but it came through in the end as my favorite Sony system, which is being outdone by the PS4. I too believe the PS4 has a lot of life left in it. I'm completely satisfied with this generation--with the inclusion of the awesome Switch, I'm in no rush to move on to a new system--let the good times roll.
I wonder if the release of PS5 will depend on how well MS do with XboneX?
Also I wonder if Sony will make PS5 a similar setup to the Switch where it's a home console that can be taken mobile? Would be quite cool tbh... (as long as it didn't have Vita SD cards!)
@adf86 Everyone will have their own opinion but I would MUCH rather play Sony's late 2018, early 2019 games on a 4k capable console - not on a console that's basically locked to the HD era and just offering a bit more of a resolution boost. Don't get me wrong as I think the Pro does a decent job of giving us a bit sharper images.
Its barely capable of delivering 1080/60 in some games as they are unlocked. Others are not even able of delivering a 4k - even if checkerboard - image and still have some problems maintaining a solid 30fps. Its still 'currently' the most powerful console but its still more 'HD' than 4k. Game visuals are more than just 'resolution'.
A Q4 2018, say November, is more for the 2019 onwards games. That's still 17months away. It also doesn't mean the PS4 is 'dead' either as we have seen the 'older' consoles go on for 2-3yrs afterwards.
Maybe the fact I have a 4k TV is making me wish for this sooner rather than later but look what MS are offering for just £100 more - a whole PS4 better GPU, 50% more RAM with 70% more for gaming and 50% higher bandwidth. Admittedly the CPU isn't a generational leap but with a lot of the processes offloaded to other areas that the PS4 Pro CPU has to deal with, we don't yet know how significant that customisation will be. You also have a 4k HDR Bluray, Atmos and Game VRR too. In a year, who knows what Sony coul come up with in that £350-£450 price range. I bet it will have a better CPU though. At one point $1k would buy the best GPU - the Titan X yet a year later a $400 GPU (GTX1070) can beat it in Benchmark tests
Technology may not be 'racing' ahead as it once was but that could also help Sony by offering a 4k console with HDMI 2.1 features and 4k Bluray knowing that the technology isn't going to race ahead and need an iterative upgrade in a few years. The PS4 isn't even delivering full HD in a number of games so a replacement isn't that far-fetched. I know its selling well too but you can't sit back on your laurels either. Sony could have a HD console and a full 4k console. My PS4 Pro will still be kept as the 'best' console for playing 'older' generation games - like I kept my PS3 and if I have to play Sony's exclusives on it for the next 2-3yrs (or more) so be it but I would buy a PS5 today if it was released to play games like Days Gone, Spider-Man etc in full 4k. I personally don't need the 4k HDR Bluray player as I have an XB1s and will have the XB1x but I still think Sony should have this as not everyone wants to buy an Xbox or a separate player.
As stated, I know everyone will have their own ideas, their own preference but I personally would love for Sony to bring it out by the end of 2018 so I can play their incredible exclusives at the highest quality and not have to play in 1080p if I want 60fps, not have 'blurry' textures and some competition to the XB1x for 3rd Party game choice. I can assure you that if I am paying £40-45 for a game, I will buy the one that gives the best performance and if Frame rates are identical, the one that looks the best...
I don't think we need any new consoles for at least three years, it feels like developers are only just starting to unlock the full power of the current gen consoles, this generation was very slow to start so i wouldn't want to go through all that again.
I will be slightly hesitant to buy a PS5, Xbox 2 or whatever it will called so early on next time though now that we've started getting mid-gen upgrades, might wait a few years and see if they do them again next generation.
I would buy a hybrid Playstation in a heartbeat, but a PS5 will probably focus on 4K and PSVR, neither of which I care about at all, so I'll probably skip Playstation 5 next gen unless it gets an exclusive I absolutely can't ignore (an exclusive SMT or Persona game, for example, although I can't imagine their next few games wouldn't focus on fully exploiting the potential of the PS4's hardware, even if they also release on PS5).
Do you reckon GTAV will still be in the top 10 by then?
2019 or 2020 seems like a good bet. PS4 still has a bunch of life.
2019 or 2020 will be perfectly fine for me. the ps4 is a great machine and lots of great games are coming before the ps5 arrives
@BAMozzy The tech upgrade path will shortly decline as the miniaturization of components is reaching its end game.
I think Sony want the PS5 to be relatively future proof and are playing their cards accordingly.
Sony is switching to 3 year hardware refresh cycles, this way technology isnt held back and evolution will continue. Their PS4 and PS4 Pro set up will continue forward on every 3 years and be B/C with each other. Fall 2019 is PlayStations 25th Anniversary and when a True Next Gen 4k gaming console with Native 4k 60 fps and with enhanced graphics will launch. Remember The Last Of Us 2013 then PS4 Fall 2013. Without a doubt to me The Last Of Us 2 is launching 2019 and PS5 Fall 2019.
@Themanhutch Get ready Fall 2019 😉
@adf86 Fall 2019 it is, Its Playstations 25th Anniversary and rememeber The Last Of Us 2013 then PS4 Fall 2013. Same set up The Last Of Us 2 2019 and PS5 Fall 2019.
@BAMozzy Fall 2019 it is, Itll be Playstations 25th Anniversary and dont forget when The Last Of Us launched 2013 then PS4 Fall 2013. The Last Of Us 2 will be 2019 and PS5 will launch Fall 2019.
@kyleforrester87 Without a doubt itll be Fall 2019, thats Playstations 25th Anniversary and dont forget when The Last Of Us launched 2013 and PS4 launched Fall 2013. The same thing is gonna happen, The Last Of Us 2 2019 and PS5 Fall 2019.
@themcnoisy It does seem to be reaching its maximum but that doesn't mean technology will stagnate. Maybe the next step will be based on Quantum Computing.
HDMI2.1 though does seem to indicate that we could be moving towards 8K eventually but some of the benefits of HDMI 2.1 could benefit us gamers - like 4K/120, Game VRR and of course eARC for Atmos/DTS-X Audio. Even if we don't see an increase in 'resolution' to 8K, I still think we are a way off from getting High Frame Rate 4k gaming from a Console. Even when Sony do release its 4k console, there will still be room to improve - whether that's in terms of visual settings (higher quality), Frame Rates or both. I doubt it will be running games at a native 4k, ultra settings and 60+ fps.
It will be interesting to see where gaming goes. In the past, a generation often gave us something unique - whether that was true 3D gaming, CD quality sound, the full spectrum of colours etc but lately, its seemed to be more about resolution than any 'significant' changes. Where games went from say 2 colours, to 8 colours to 256 colours, now we are seeing the possibility of a billion colours or more, much larger colour palettes and contrast ratios (HDR), 3D Object based Audio (Atmos/DTS-X) as well as the possibility of Variable Refresh Rates meaning that developers don't have to target 30 or 60fps but could target 40 or 50fps instead. The reason we have '30fps' if because of a TV's 60hz refresh rate and that fits perfectly as a 2:1 and why 45fps actually feels worse than 30fps but Game VRR can change that. It may not be quite so good as 60fps but 45fps would still be smoother and better than 30fps. It might not be as 'impressive' as jumping from 2D to 3D but it could still be a big thing for gaming. Able to cap a game at 40fps instead of 30fps or even able to run at over 60fps on consoles - of course you would need a new TV to cope with these.
2019 / 2020 makes sense given PlayStation's history.
PlayStation - 1994
PlayStation 2 - 2000
PlayStation 3 - 2006
PlayStation 4 - 2013
@lacerz Yup, Fall 2019 is Playstations 25th Anniversary and when PS5 will launch. Just like how The Last Of Us launched 2013 and PS4 launched Fall 2013, itll be the same with The Last Of Us 2 2019 and PS5 Fall 2019.
@Furtin I am with you absolutely!!!! Believe it or not even with a 30 plus ps4 game collection. I still find myself playing on my ps3 weekly. Great game is what matters. After you deduct graphics, no new ps4 game is as good as U2 or TLoU or Batman AC. Well, Maybe Witcher 3. I actually platinumed a couple of oldies on my ps3 this month. They still look great. For example, I love my brawlers and this generation has yet to up the ante on that field. Better games not more pixels.
Not even news... Just an article to stir up idiots
@AmericanBalls
Wow. You created an account just to say that. Looks like you are what you're calling out.
@themcnoisy Amd 2019 is about 7nm Zen, Navi and HBM3, 2020 is about 7nm+ Zen, a Next Gen Gpu and Memory wise not sure. Well see how it goes down, i think Fall 2019 is a 100% lock for PS5 unless Xbox One X completely fails as i think itll do not bad.
@BAMozzy Dynamic refresh rate TVs would be an amazing idea and stop holding us back to the dreaded 30fps.
Since your knowledge on gaming technology, I've done some research as one of the best lectures I ever heard was in university 16 years ago about Moores laws self fulfilling prophecy so I've been reading up on it, take a look at this;
http://www.economist.com/technology-quarterly/2016-03-12/after-moores-law
I've wondered why processor speeds have hardly increased from 2gz I was using in 2001 (funnily at uni) . So I found the Intel site;
https://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2014/02/19/why-has-cpu-frequency-ceased-to-grow
So a combination of the 2 and the fact smaller fabrication below 10nm is having unknown electrical field effects on transistors and the high expense of any future 10nm or smaller processors, rather than becoming cheaper will hold their price. Worse still they could become more expensive due to chip yield, leads to the conclusion that the PS5 will be the last great generational leap. To keep it competitive price wise it will be late 2019 at the earliest with the best cpu using current tech.
Full 4k at 60fps will be absolutely nailed on.
@Eman619 haha posted the same time as you read the above comment I've just wrote.
@AmericanBalls Another Goner born yesterday.
You know something's gonna be big when start refferring to Next-Gen as "Mid-Gen".
@themcnoisy LOl yup just noticed.
@lacerz you're right, where's my manners? You sirs, are all idiots to not assume there would be a ps5(next generation console), and brush your teeth!
@AmericanBalls keep on rocking in the free world.
I hope you understand me
@AmericanBalls Hey stop calling us idiots, I prefer the term extreme gaming enthusiasts. We can all debate the likelihood of another generation of consoles, as a number us have a level of trepidation following the release of the pro and x1x. Debating or commenting on the possibility of a sweeping business strategy change from Sony regarding the notion of console generations is actually worthwhile.
Glad i didn't waste money on a mid-gen upgrade. My launch Ps4 is still kicking. I dont care about VR or 4k. So bring on the PlayStation 5. 2020 or bust.
If they're smart they'll stylized it as PSV
Somewhere between 2020 and 2021, we'll have the option of hardware and/or streaming instead. The Last of Us 2 will launch before PS5 and it's not going to be ready before 2019.
@AmericanBalls you can call me an idiot anytime buddy, life is short n sweet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaRd7TBq4Og
@Number09 not really, but glad we can get along.
@themcnoisy hey I'm just a troll dude. And you do make a valid point about the debate of console strategees being worthwhile but what I was saying is to assume there'd not even be a ps5(next gen PlayStation console) you'd of course, have to be an idiot.
@themcnoisy There is a limit to how small something can be and still be functional. However there is alternatives to trying to reduce the size down and still keep the same 'performance' and that its to consider stacking. Instead of fitting the same (or more) transistors into something half the size, they could consider a multi-layered option instead - if they can find away to manage the heat effectively.
We may not be seeing CPU's with much faster clock-speeds but we are seeing multi-core CPU's occupying the same (or smaller) space. How the software works with multi-core CPU's has changed too. At one point, you could only allocate processes to a specific core and something, like instruction to the GPU, when that reached 100%, things would slow down until that core could clear that backlog even though the other cores were sat relatively idle. Ryzen has 2 threads per core and with Simultaneous Multi-Threading, this gives these CPU's a bigger advantage than just a standard (single thread) multi-core CPU.
The size of the console isn't a major factor - not if you are looking at building a 4k device that's at least as powerful as the XBX - or even one that's more powerful. The XBX is smaller than the XB1s and Sony could go a bit bigger on their APU - add in some more cores - the more cores they add, the lower the clock speed, the less heat. Go with a new CPU structure - like Ryzen which may also offer some Back Compatibility thanks to the x86 architecture. I think HBM2 maybe too expensive but could give us 9-10GB at around 350MB/s to handle the 4k assets and still build it small enough to fit on an AV shelf. They don't have to jump to 7nm at launch. The PS3 launched with a 90nm Chip but the Slim dropped to 45nm. They could keep to 14nm until 7nm becomes financially viable. Just by eliminating the bottlenecks in the CPU, combined with the RAM for 4k Assets, a more powerful GPU to render 2160p, a 4k HDR Bluray, Atmos and Game VRR, that is a sizeable jump from the PS4 Pro, let alone the PS4 and of course it would be 'free' to offer higher frame rates in online MP games too. It wouldn't have to be capped to 30fps because of the PS4's 'poor' CPU. It could also give the PS5 a significant edge over the XB1X too. The opportunity to play games like Destiny, Bloodborne 2, Days Gone, Last of Us 2, Spider-Man etc at 4k/60 rather than 2x900-1080p/30
MS built a bit of leeway into their GPU. Each GPU is built with 44cores but with every manufacture process, occasionally you get a core fail which would make that GPU 'scrap' so to cut down scrap, they have a few extras. The Dev Kits use 'perfect' 44cu GPU's. Sony could something similar - build a 64cu GPU and disable 4 in the domestic PS5.
Point is though, Sony could and no doubt will want to offer its users the full 4k gaming experience - not just a console that basically just increases the resolution output but not the 'visual' settings. If anything, the Pro is built more to offer VR gamers a better experience and as a side bonus, a boost for non-VR games. When they do this, I don't know but its inevitable. I think 2018 makes sense myself. As you know I own a Pro too but I still see that in exactly the same way as a 'Slim', Super Slim etc. Ok so it has a bit more oomph but its still a PS4. If anything, I see it as a halfway step to see the PS4 through this generation and offer those with 4k TV's a bit of a visual boost - a bit of 'extra' sharpness. If Sony hadn't brought out the PS4 Pro, I would still think that this generation would 'struggle' to reach much beyond the 5yr point. I know people will say that the PS4 is fine, whilst playing games with dynamic scaling and unlocked frame rates - happy with sub 1080/60 - even the extra power in the Pro can't run some games at 1080/60 consistently - Infamous, Rise of the Tomb Raider.
Of course, if the PS5 doesn't come out in 17months time, I will still keep playing PS4 exclusives on my Pro as it will still be the best place to play them, but I would still prefer to play these on a more powerful system. I want a 'difficult' choice to decide which console to buy multi-platform games on. I want Sony to push MS and MS to push Sony.
I am not expecting a PS5 till 2021 at least , bought a PS4Pro happy with it ( sure it can use a little more)
I don't want to hear the games you bought won't work on PS5 just yet but I do see Sony using PSNnow in the near future for also PS4 games
@FullbringIchigo Not happening and I wouldn't expect it like that
@Shepherd_Tallon It was never going nowhere with either company people read way too many exaggerated articles to begin with , I see console hardware still coming both companies are focused on that
@BAMozzy thats the main reason the ps5 wont release in 2018, the 1070 from nvidia is over £500 alone and thats not even one their best gpu's. The ps5 has to have at least a comparable graphics system in place to that. I dont think Sony can afford to offer a gimped 4k machine after the pro so they will go balls deep with a great cpu, that also means waiting it out to see if the nanotech is financially viable.
I cant see the PS5 releasing at over £400 either, therefore it could even even release in 2020!
@Ben_Rage_V2 ps3 was the best.I'm still playing my ps3
@Ralizah a hybrid sucks.you want it to be like Nintendo.no thank you.PlayStation is the king.Nintendo is losing third party with their weak console.ps5 4 k
@ApostateMage hahahah lol
Sony: There will be a PS5.
Me: Duh.
I'd say 2021 is good for release. That will give them the next year or so to gauge interest in the Switch and see if they want to jump on that bandwagon (please don't.) By 2019 AMD and nvidia will have rolled out tech that will make the XBX look like a child's toy, so we'll be getting dat Native 4K for sure.
@BAMozzy Plain and simple the tech isnt there in 2018 for a Next Gen Leap. A 8 Teraflop Gpu would get u 4k native though, 2019 is 7nm Zen, Navi and HBM3. Sony isnt going for the smart phone cycle which would be 2 years after the PS4 Pro, The Last Of Us launched 2013 and PS4 launched Fall 2013. The Last Of Us 2 will launch 2019 and PS5 will launch Fall 2019 as thats also Playstations 25th Anniversary and when PS5 will launch. A True 4k Native Next Gen gaming Console running 60 fps with Enhanced Graphics.
@themcnoisy There are several GTX1070's on the market for less than £400 and some are around the £450 but none are over £500. I think you are thinking of the GTX1080 which is around the £500 price point- the cheapest being around £470. People thought that MS couldn't release a 6tflop console with all that RAM for £450 and watercooled too with a 4k Bluray Player, for just £450 - £100 more than the Pro. Don't forget that the $1k Titan X was beaten by a £400 GTX1070 in just a year.
@Eman619 Its not just Pro that is a factor, its the PS4 and its life cycle that will determine when Sony releases its next gen hardware. It has nothing to do with 'smart phone' cycles either. Its to do with offering their user base a truly 4k game experience. I could argue that the Pro was nothing more than a way to prolong the console life to get to the 5yr point because a lot of games are not capable of running at full HD on their ageing PS4.
Just because 'coincidentally' the Last of Us launched a few months before the PS4 is neither here nor there. God of War Ascension, GT6, Beyond:Two Souls etc all released in 2013 - Beyond two souls only a month before the PS4 launched and GT6 released a month after in Dec 2013. All the Last of Us release did was give Sony a reason to sell it to us twice. I have both the PS3 and PS4 version.
You can also look at when Sony stopped manufacturing the old Consoles. The PS1 was discontinued in 2005 - a year before the PS3 launched. The PS2 was discontinued in the same year as the PS4 launched. The PS3 was discontinued this year. Sony has often had 2 generations in production so with the PS3 discontinued, it could mean they are gearing up for a next gen console.
I find it funny that at launch, people were 'disappointed' in the power of the base console(s) - MS in particular. With the Pro, I hear a lot people saying that's how powerful the consoles should have been at launch but disappointed Sony didn't add in a 4k HDR Bluray player, upgrade the CPU etc but as soon as the threat of a new generation is around the corner, people want to cling on to the old...
@BAMozzy I fully understand ur point, i thought for most of the last year PS5 is Fall 2018 for sure. Especially with Analyst Damian Thong bringing it up 3x. I got lucky and got a new 55inch LGB6 last October for $1699 total. I traded in my PS4 since launch for PS4 Pro right away. If PS5 launches Fall 2018 im in without a doubt. It was mostly obvious to me that PS4 Pro was a push for PSVR and if PS4 Pro never launched PS5 would of been Fall 2018 guaranteed. Sony has easily noticed the negativity from the fanbase about PS5 2 years after PS4 Pro and might have changed course. I also realized after the PS4 Pro launched that Sony might be switching to 3 year hardware refresh cycles, this way technology isnt held back and evolution will continue. That a Next Gen Playstation launches for 3 years then a B/C Playstation Pro version comes in for 3 years and the cycle continues on every 3 years. Well see how this goes down, im in and support what ever happens.
@Eman619 If they build the PS5 powerful enough, you won't need a mid-cycle iterative console to help see you through the generation. The reason we had one this time was because of external devices - like 4k TV's and VR.
If the PS5 can offer 4k gaming with 4k media as well as Atmos and Game VRR, then making a slightly more powerful console is virtually pointless. I doubt Sony will allow 60fps (or more) in MP games if the PS5 can only run them at 30fps. You aren't going to get a 'significant' boost in visuals if the PS5 is running at 4k HDR. Unless something comes along - like a new VR headset that needs more processing power or 8K TV's come along. Sony could easily hold on for 5-6yrs at least.
Of course there's gone to be a PS5, the question becomes will they bundle it with the next iteration of PSVR.
And now the internet rumors will fly off the wall!!!! Anyways, glad it won't be for a while now, as I don't feel like forking over more money and the announcement could possibly hurt the PS4 (granted the PS4 is killing all others).
@BAMozzy well written response that Bam. Im saying late 2019 as I just can't see the 4k 60fps for complex games being built for sub £400 right now (even with my suspect math) Obviously Sony have some smoke and mirrors up scaling tech but it needs to be native, else be ripped to shreds by the likes of digital foundry. That's my take on it anyway.
Totally agree that if the ps5 covers the 60fps 4k base we won't see a ps5 pro. Your point on the base ps4 is right on point.
@BAMozzy Sorry but that statment is wrong. Microsoft have also clearly stated that they are looking and designing the next Generation Xbox. Just like Sony the Xbox One X is a iteration of the Xbox One Just like the Pro for PS4, a Next Gen is definatly going to happen. Personaly my self after getting the Xbox One X, I dont want a New Pice of hardawre from either Sony or Microsoft untill 2020 earliest.
I should have gone to computer gaming years ago at least then I could have just upgraded it instead of buying new consoles.
To me, I want to see a real reason to upgrade into a next generation outside of 4k graphics and faster frame rates. I felt that PS3/360 era really made that jump in 3d realism and storytelling from the PS2. With the exception of VR, there has been some great games but nothing that hasn't felt an iterative improvement. I look forward to seeing what they have up their sleeve.
I also think that the PS4 has just hit its stride and needs another couple of years before the PS5 announcement.
@themcnoisy As stated, my hope is for a Q4 2018 release - in place for the 2019 games - not arrive by the end of 2019 for 2020 games, I really think that's too long.
There is nothing wrong with Checkboarding technique at all. In fact Rainbow Six Siege used it to great effect and its PC option, 'Temporal Filtering' is hailed as a revolution.
Taken from GEForce.Com - nVidia's own site
"Temporal Filtering" is, in our opinion, a revolution for gaming, enabling significant bumps in image quality and performance, without a reduction in detail of other settings. Essentially, free performance with no readily-seen drawbacks.
If the PS5 can offer every game in at least 4k Checkerboard, with 4k Assets and Textures, as well as Atmos/DTS-X, 4k HDR Bluray and Game VRR support, it will still represent a major upgrade over the PS4.
The problem with the Pro is that it still has to upscale a LOT of games - Granted games like Horizon:ZD runs at 2160p and of course Fifa and Skyrim run at Native 4k but a lot require upscaling - 1800p checkerboard games, 1440p checkerboard games. Incidentally Uncharted 4 runs at 1440p as does Titanfall 2.
Even though 1440p is actually rendering more pixels per frame than 1800p checkerboard, 1800p looks a lot better, a lot sharper. You yourself must be able to see this owning a Pro and 4k TV. I bet you can't see the artefacts from Checkerboard rendering at 1800p either.
Digital Foundry have no issue with Temporal Filtering. Its the ignorant few though that can't differentiate between an upscale and checkerboard render. A checkerboard render is still delivering a 'true' 1800p or 'true' 2160p image. Why? Because its pulling half the image from the previous frame instead of redrawing it so you get a 'full 1800p or 2160p' image. Anything less than 2160p (like 1800p for example) is upscaled - like the XB1s does with all those 900p games. 1440p is equivalent to 720p in HD so games like Titanfall 2, Uncharted etc are the 4k equivalent of 720p - but also use the same HD level assets as the base PS4 - these are not scaled up in line with the resolution.
Games are not 'rendered' in a 'flat' image - like a camera taking a 'snapsnot'. They are made up in layers in the GPU and calculated in a 3D space. Objects a certain distance away will use lower level textures than those close by. In some cases 3D objects will be replaced with 2D clip art until you get close enough that they need to be replace by a 3D version. The lighting and Shadows are often only calculated a certain distance in front of the player and most often Shadows are not 'Dynamic' and low quality too.
What Temporal Filtering allows is for more GPU space to increase all those visual settings and draw distances, without tanking the frame rate. In Watchdogs 2, running at 4k Ultra Settings, the game ran at an 'unplayable' 20fps on a GTX1060. However when Temporal filtering was switched on, this jumped up to 37fps - nearly double the frame rate.
What this means is that we could have games running at a Native 4k/30 or a 'checkerboard' 4k/60 and from a general game-playing distance the difference between On and Off is nigh on impossible to detect. I would happily take checkerboard 4k/60 over a native 4k/30 - especially as I don't sit with my face 2" from the screen looking for artefacts...
The point I am making though is that Sony don't really have a console for the 4k generation. Yes the Pro will boost the output resolution in games but can't scale up the assets in line with the increased resolution. It's also lacking in the 4k multi-media department too. It doesn't need to hit 'native' 4k with every game but would need enough to hit 'true 4k' (as in delivering a full 4k image by either rendering all (native) or drawing half (checkerboard) and pulling the other half from the previous frame) and all 4k assets so no upscaling is required - including textures. People think 'true' must mean 'native' but it means that the image is full 4k (no upscaling) with full 4k assets - essentially the same as switching on Temporal Filtering on a PC. When DF did their comparison of Watchdogs 2 on Pro vs PC, they had Temporal Filtering switched on and they also did a video about what PC developers can learn from Consoles - things like scaling and Temporal Filtering options in ALL games as often Frostbite games don't do any scaling or checkerboard rendering on PC but do use it on Consoles.
When you look at what that extra £100 buys - its essentially a PS4 and PS4 Pro combined (4.2 + 1.8 = 6, The extra RAM and Bandwidth, difficult to know exactly how much the customisation has helped in the CPU side) and a 4k HDR player (these aren't cheap to buy separately). Its not unreasonable to think that a year down the line, Sony could beat it with a custom built APU (CPU and GPU in one), at least match it with 4k HDR Player, RAM, Atmos, Game VRR etc and still sell it for £450 or less.
Incidentally, a developer from Respawn revealed on NeoGAF that internal testing is showing that Titanfall 2 can render up to 3,200p. In other words, it can hit about 6K resolution - not necessarily 100% of the time - depending on load. If that means that TF2 can run solidly at 4k with a locked 60fps and 4k Assets, the extra 'overheads' can be used to improve shadows, reflections etc beyond that of the 'console' standards.
I would love to play Sony's upcoming games in true 4k and not feel I have to buy on Xbox just to get my full 4k gaming experience on multi-plat releases...
I can't see MS bringing out a 'new' generation console (if they go that route) or a new upgraded version in the next 3-4yrs if they are emulating the PC market - ie the equivalent of buying a new GPU every 3-4yrs. If Sony do bring out the PS5 in say 2-3yrs (2019/20) MS can, a year later, bring out its new upgrade and beat Sony. In a 3yr cycle so to speak where you get a 'console' and iterative hardware, 2 out of 3yrs would be MS's (in terms of having the most Powerful console). If Sony were to release in 2018, beating XBX, they would have the 2yr advantage.
Whilst Hardware has slowed down in terms of power, we are still a long way off from running current games at 4k ultra settings and high frame rates - even in the PC space. Resolution is likely to plateau for a bit but games will constantly evolve too. We are still likely to see textures and shadows draw in as we move forward as well as medium/low quality shadows on consoles so there is always going to be room to advance. The differences may not be resolution jumps with iterative hardware but frame rate jumps - even with Game VRR and HDMI2.1 allows for 4k/120 (as well as Atmos through eARC), AI, - a more fleshed out world with more wildlife, Photo-realistic hair/fur, insane levels of destructability and physics etc etc. Also in VR too.
As stated, if Sony were to release its PS5 in 2018, I would buy Day 1 - simple as! If not, then I will wait until they do but I will still be wanting one, still want to play Sony's great line-up in true 4k. I know some will say resolution, visuals are not 'that' important but I bet some would be 'disappointed' if the Last of Us 2 only ran at 720/30 on PS4, 1080/30 on Pro. People are complaining now the Pro's CPU is too weak to run Destiny at 60fps and I wonder how they would feel if Destiny 2 looked like the PC version on XBX with the only difference being frame rate but a scaled down version (1800p with lower textures and visual settings) on Pro? Would they want Sony to bring out the PS5 sooner and with a better CPU to hit 60fps??
Yet again I have typed an essay - Sorry - its easily done when you are passionate about something...
@RustyBullet The future for Xbox are without Generations and being B/C, full power will never be Exposed and there will never be Exclusives, Playstations strategy is the opposite and will always be way more successful. http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/xbox-one-and-done-microsoft-says-it-s-moving-beyond-console-generations-1326744
@Rudy_Manchego Playstations 25th Anniversary is Fall 2019 and PS5 it is.
@JoeBlogs Fall 2019 is Playstations 25th Anniversary and when PS5 will launch, 2019 is all about 7nm Zen, Navi and HBM3. Im very looking forward to seeing how things pan out.
2020 at the earliest me thinks.
Take your time, get a dev kit into the hands of top developers as soon as possible. Let it cook.
@Eman619 Good point - then yes, 2019 it is!
@JoeBlogs Oh completely - games are looking better and better. I've got the Pro and Horizon was just a thing of beauty. I have just got a second hand PS3 and I can see the visual step back.
I just feel that we could of got a version of Horizon on PS3. It would not have looked as good, you wouldn't of had as many robosaurs on screen or they wouldn't have been as cool but the gameplay could have been done. I don't think the same was true of the leap from PS2 to PS3 say. I am hoping I'll be wrong and I love the better visuals, it does really help with the immersion!
@JoeBlogs Completely agree with how developers are going to leverage tech now the PS3 is behind. I think Horizon and UC4 show how much potential there is. It is just gameplay wise, there isn't much more other than spit and polish between UC1 and UC4. Maybe Death Stranding will change all that if it launches before the PS5!
from sony's perspective, they'd need to look at what the first party studios could deliver for a PS5 launch. possibly guerrilla could start on horizon zero dawn 2 for PS5, or sucker punch's game could be 'held back' for PS5.. but the vast majority of their studios are on a cycle for games on PS4 til late 2018, and given how long it takes to develop modern AAA games, most of those studios probably won't have anything new ready til 2020 at the earliest, so whether sony could have enough content to carry it forward so that 2020 would be the second wave is debateable. i know games are scalable so they 'could' be made for PS4 and 5, but i'm not convinced a significant majority are going to buy a new machine if it's just higher resolution graphics, and it's possibly underestimating the task if the new APUs are significantly different from the current one. in my opinion, there's no point to PS5 unless the CPU is significantly upgraded, at least double the performance of PS4's jaguar - it'll be necessary to hit 60fps more often than not, which i think will be the next shift in console games rather than hitting 4k in ultra settings, especially if we're considering 2018 or 19 when i'd wager a majority of gamers will still have 1080p TV sets/displays.. but by then, i think sony would still be looking at achieving 4k with temporal projection, so whether that's enough of an upgrade to market i'm not sure. i still think Q4 2019 is likely.
@leucocyte I agree, Fall 2019 is Playstations 25th Anniversary and PS5 should launch . 7nm and all the Next Gen Tech will be there. I'm sticking with Fall 2019 as it would be a Next Gen Leap. Killzone 5 will very likely be a PS5 launch title. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psu.com/amp/32269/killzone-5-release-leaked
@Eman619 It seems they are expecting a big order in the latter half of 2018... Even 14nm could work if its 'cheaper' and use a 7nm for a slim model later down the line...
@leucocyte Sony could have held the Last of Us for a launch game on PS4. The could have dual launched GT6 too, could have kept Beyond:Two Souls back a month or two.
Alternatively, just bring out the games on PS4 when they are ready and then port them up as a remaster for the PS5 - like they did with Last of Us.
There is a big difference between a game running with just a higher output resolution and going all in to 4k. As you also state, its not just the resolution jump that can benefit, but also all the art, assets and textures. They could also use a lot of the power to improve the visual settings, the lighting, shadows, reflections, draw distances etc. Another area that can benefit is frame rate and being freed from the limitations of the ageing PS4. Even IF the Pro could do 60fps in MP games that are 30fps, you won't get that. Then of course you also have Atmos/DTS-X audio, the 4k Bluray player and Game VRR too. I know that Game VRR isn't relevant today but if you are building a next gen console, its a good idea to include it. In every sense of the word, this represents a sizeable jump from the PS4. I know its not as 'big' a jump for Pro gamers but still a significant jump none the less. Going from around 1440p (which the Pro does - 1800p CB is actually rendering fewer native pixels than 1440p does and 2160p CB is a few more) to 2160p is no different from going from 720p to 1080p. Not every 'Pro' enhanced game even offers UHD resolutions either - Tekken is full HD and and Overwatch only changed the HuD to 4k. Dirt 4 requires you to watch DF to see what impact the improved settings actually made and in truth its so minor, you wouldn't notice - another 1080p only game...
@BAMozzy The main thing u have to take in account is that Sony announced that they are not following a smartphone cycle, which automatically puts PS5 at Fall 2019 or Fall 2020. Fall 2019 is way more guaranteed as its PlayStations 25th Anniversary and that 7nm and Next Gen Tech is available for a PS5 launch Fall 2019.
I would like that they pick a resolution and deliver on it. tired of comprised weird resolutions and lower textures, etc. been a long time sony owner and would consider switching next gen if competition looks better.
@BAMozzy - if you're looking at Q4/2018 for PS5, i don't think the market penetration for 4K TVs will have surpassed 1080p HDTV (or anywhere close) - in my opinion sony wouldn't really gain much to effectively release a PS4 pro pro catering to a small end of its market - it could wait a year when next-gen CPU/GPUs would be available (as far as PS4/XB goes, both are last-gen rather than current-gen CPUs), and 4K/TVs have greater market share. texture pixel density, multi-sample anti-aliasing, greater shadow maps, draw distances, etc. are all very well for people who like to pixel count and i'm sure sony could release a PS5 in 2018 and improve all of those over the PS4 pro, but at some point there is a diminishing set of returns compared to cost on resolution/graphics, particularly for non-4K owners. personally i think simply offering better visual and audio improvements is not enough to tempt people, and i'm not convinced that within 18 months sony would have a device capable of offering improved graphics over XB1x and at a standard 60fps. for significant frame-rate boost for everyone regardless if they have HD or UHD display, and visual enhancements for those with UHD, the minimum a PS5 would really need to target is a 100% boost compared to the PS4 CPU, and at 200% boost to the Pro's GPU (with the necessary RAM/bandwidth improvements to accomodate it). possible for sub-£400 within a year and a half? i doubt it.
sales for blu-ray are in massive decline, despite the fact that the number of households having a blu-ray player has gone up. certain titles, and especially many tv shows don't even get blu-ray releases, and availability of 4K-UHD stuff (in the UK at least) is shockingly bad, i don't think it will ever prove to be a viable format - unless the additional capacity is required for games, or there's little cost difference to having a 4k blu-ray drive, i'd say a PS5 doesn't need it. i wonder what % of PS4/XB1 owners have never played a blu-ray movie...
also, if PS5 has backwards compatibility with PS4 (though this may be harder to achieve than many people assume), then there'd be really no need to 'remaster up' end-of-life PS4 games, in which case it would be imperative to have new content for PS5 - that's highly unlikely for end of 2018. not sure how well "surprise! Last of US 2 is a PS5 launch exclusive!" would go down with the playstation base (though it would definitely persuade me). and what happens in the case when multiplayer on both PS4 and PS5 offer 60fps? for example CoD / Battlefront / Battlefield / Uncharted.. are we going to get into a situation where some games could offer PS4 and PS5 to play together (eg. a hypothetical battlefront 3) and some don't (a hypothetical destiny 3)?.
2018 won't happen. If PS5 was being released in 2018 we would be hearing a lot of rumours alongside next-gen gaming engines at E3 a few weeks ago.
If you know what kit is available from chip manufacturers you would know that the hardware wouldn't be much different to Xbox One X and PS4 Pro hardware anyways if Sony did that.
A lot also depends on where AMD, Intel and Nvidia will be hardware wise in the coming years.
I love that PS5 graphic at the top of this article...
The Sony ribbon on a black background, is there a PS4 theme of that?
It would look amazing on my new OLED. PS4 theme please...
Not much of a surprise really.
We all knew the ps5 would be coming.
Hopefully no sooner then 2022, the ps4 is doing quite well for it self.
gotta be 2019 , that year TLOU2 will be released as well , the last great PS4 exclusive.
@spakai Yup, just like The Last Of Us 2013 then PS4 Fall 2013, Fall 2019 is Playstations 25th Anniversary and when Sony will launch A Real 4k Native 60 fps Enhanced Graphics Next Gen Console . AMD has a early head start on 7nm and all the Next Gen Tech will be there for PS5 Fall 2019.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11558/globalfoundries-details-7-nm-plans-three-generations-700-mm-hvm-in-2018
@kyleforrester87 The Last Of Us 2, Death Stranding and Sucker Punches new ip which i heard is a melee combat cyberpunk game should be the last 3 PS4 Exclusives in 2019, before PS5 launches Fall 2019.
Meh... i'm fine with my new PS Pruh. I mean i just got it last month. No way will i get another PlayStation, unless it's white.
@JohnKarnes There already are HDR 1080P tv's.
As long as the PS5 is coming out around when Cyberpunk does and not a year later, I am happy. Other than that, I am content with the PS4 Pro.
release date april 1st 2019
PS5 should (and could) be in the same form factor as the Switch.
If 4 years from now the PS5 could bring us PS4 Pro performance with the unbelievably accessible form of the Switch.
PS4 has power, but Nintendo have brought WAAAAAY more to the table this gem and delivered probably the greatest leap in gaming hardware in history.
Evolve that with the power current gen static console hardware like PS4 to next gen and you’ve got something even more amazing. Graphics and production costs are both sky high right now, following Nintendo’s lead and trying something innovative in Sony’s legacy for a change would stand them in good stead.
Not before the end of 2020.at least at Novembar 2020,for us who can buy our first console, PS4Pro in begin of 2017. You don't wanna go rush with PS5, because all hardware will be more reduce the price over the time and we need console with backward compatibility, with 60 fps for all PS5 games, we need disk too, so and stand or camera in the main package and compatible with PlayStation Gold and Platinum headset and of course, compatible with PSVR!!!
@Eman619 Fall of 2020 at least, bacuse many people are still buying PS4 SLIM & PS4Pro like them first console ever. Do not rush Sony with PS5...
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