
There’s been all kinds of speculation about PSVR2 and its supposedly slower than expected launch. Bloomberg had previously reported that Sony had cut its production plan for the peripheral’s launch by more than half, although this was all based on its own calculations, and the Japanese giant would go on to deny them. It since followed up with a second article late last month, citing analysts which claim the headset has got off to a “slow start” and will need a price cut to avoid “disaster”.
Now renowned Apple insider Ming-Chi Kuo claims that the firm has cut its proposed PSVR2 production plan by 20 per cent in 2023. This is obviously nowhere near as bad as Bloomberg’s original report, but is in no way a positive result either – assuming it’s true.
We pointed out how we’re a little concerned about the headset in a previous post, noting that there’s no real software roadmap for the expensive device, outside of Firewall Ultra and a smattering of third-party titles. Obviously the launch period was impressive, absolutely bursting at the seams with arguably too much day one software, but a lot of it was made up of re-releases and enhanced ports – rather than original new titles.
In a lot of key territories, Sony has decided to sell PSVR2 through its own PS Direct storefront, and its marketing has largely been laser focused at enthusiasts – outside of a rare misfire of a commercial featuring Ozzy Osborne. As a result, it’s still far too early to draw any firm conclusions about the headset’s future, but it’s clear the company has its work cut out now that the excitement of the launch period has passed – this thing needs a proper roadmap, otherwise the stench of failure may start to stick.
[source medium.com, via resetera.com]
Comments 95
You know what assuming makes you, don’t you?
So, what we have now is another “source”, with completely different numbers to the first…
Right. Good to know I guess.
I’m sure if Sony were desperate, and sitting on loads of stock as a guy getting paid by Bloomberg wants us to think, they’ll maybe do something drastic, like put some in shops for sale. Doesn’t seem they are even that desperate though.
I've said this on a previous post before , but PSVR2 is going to be a complete failure. This was always going to bomb . Especially considering the expensive tech that's inside.
Gt7 in VR though! 🔥🔥🔥
@thefourfoldroot1 Ming-Chi Kuo is very reliable to be fair.
Great technology..that probably isn't going to be backed very well ....just bought gran turisno 7 and started it in vr...
@StylesT Amazing, isn't it? Hard to go back to playing GT7 on a normal TV.
I mean are we saying all VR is dead? I don't think that's the case so PSVR2 will be fine. There's plenty of games coming out for VR cross platform, so just chill.
@get2sammyb
The Apple connected guy, saying that everyone else’s headset is having lower sales than expected, and:
“ Apple’s announcement event is likely the last hope for convincing investors that the AR/MR headset device could have a chance.”
He seems to have his opinion predefined.
While I don’t particularly care how many headsets Sony sell as long as we keep getting games, I have gotten pissed off recently about all the unfounded rumours passing for news. I know you are pushing for more money, your “supporter program” shows that, but man, you have to be careful not to irrevocably damage your reputation.
While I think that it is a little early for doom and gloom, the next PS showcase / SOP, whatever it will be, needs to address PSVR2, especially regarding first party. The announcement of a new Astro VR game or a Firesprite project might ease quite a few minds.
Sony definitely needs system-selling software for PS VR2. If they opened it up to PC support as well, they would shift so many more units. I'm not sure if they'll do that, but that's already part of the problem. The ceiling for PS VR2 will always be the number of PS5s sold and the attach rate will never be 100%. They need to raise the ceiling and the easiest way to do that is add the tens of millions of PC gamers.
Too expensive for casuals. It is no more complicated than that.
@TheCollector316
Why would they sell more loss making headsets in order to occupy their core audience on a platform where they get no cut from software sales?
@LifeGirl
True, but you have to ask how casual a PS5 owner actually is at this point. It’s not like it’s cheap itself. And the sales expectations would have been calculated based on PS5 ownership.
@thefourfoldroot1 You should apply to PR at sony man
I hope it gets supported longterm but I'm more than happy with it so far. Still playing GT7 almost daily and I'm looking forward to RE4.
@MaajorVit
Why? I don’t like Sony, I would be terrible at it.
They need to let other places sell it instead of just ps direct
Tbf that 20% wouldn't need to be taken away if they just lowered the price by £100, even id get one at that price. But they are stuck now as surely announcing a price decrease so soon after release would cause a lot of commotion and some refunds.
PS Virtual Boy
@Intr1n5ic I still think it'll get basically every third-party VR game. If you're making a VR game, why wouldn't you release on it?
Having them not available for purchase in person in physical stores doesn't help. And as good as the PSVR2 tech is inside it, the price still remains an issue for many. A little price cut, availability physically in stores and more games coming over time could help it do much better numbers?
@UltimateOtaku91 Thing is, they'd probably lose a lot of money too. I know this thing is expensive, but it's not really overpriced — you do get what you pay for.
Tricky one, though. Let's see how the next 12 months go.
@thefourfoldroot1
Are they selling PS VR2 at a loss? Then the benefit is preventing failure of their device, so it receives continued support and future sales. If they are not selling it at a loss, the answer is obvious.
@get2sammyb Oh I don't doubt that, I was talking about first party support, I should have been clear on that. More games of GT7's quality from Sonys studios is what I'm hoping for.
This is what happens when you launch a product without giving considerable thought.
Stadia?
@TheCollector316
Given how much equivalent tech goes for in the PC space, most think so. Taking into account R&D cost and such too.
What they do have is a large attachment rate for those sales. PSVR2 gamers buy a lot more games than casuals. And that’s where all the money is made. Competing in the PC mod space, not even just the PCVR space, with only your own games rather than a 30% cut on everything sold, and figuring in losses of PS5 sales…I just don’t see how it would make financial sense. And selling more loss making hardware is worse than selling less loss making hardware.
@thefourfoldroot1 They don’t have to. They can make a profit by selling to PC user. Sony can sell a token to unlock for PC. That way they can get many more devices out there. That would also help PC game developers port stuff over to PS5. It would be a win win.
@Wheatly psvr2 doesn't need halflife alyx, would be bloody nice but I'd argue resident evil village and GT7 are bigger draws than alyx to the majority of console gamers. Plus it didn't exactly sell millions of value indexes did it? (Though I will grant it had a high entry point).
All this doom and gloom makes me laugh, 300k in one month for an expensive luxury item is pretty good in my opinion. Let's see how it sells for the rest of the year. Let's see what they have planned for the Xmas period.
Just going on Bloomberg numbers which Sony have never confirmed or commented on is just weird to me.
I'm confident Sony have some great games coming, tons of 3rd party support and pcvr ports.
@KnightRider1982 considerable thought? They launched with 40 plus games and there are over 100 in development/ being ported as we speak.
I can't say whether the speculation is overblown, but there are several factors to consider. Sony only recently made the PS5 itself readily available outside of having to join a limited queue or pay through the nose to a scalper. COVID or no, it was a rough, ROUGH launch. So two years on a lot of people still haven't yet even purchased a PS5, let alone considered a peripheral that costs even more. Ditto "AAA" first-party, current-gen games support; outside of Horizon: Forbidden West and God of War, there hasn't been that much to draw consumers to the main console yet that can't be found on competing platforms. So price point aside, PSVR2's "slow start" may not be its own fault so much as the fact that the PS5 itself is still trying to recover from one.
I bought a PSVR2 so obviously I'm rooting for it to succeed. But Sony has to put in the effort to make that happen with marketing, making it readily available (that means including brick-and-mortar retailers), putting kiosks out in public for people to try, and most importantly gathering as much quality GAMES support as possible, including the likes of Beat Saber, Half Life: Alyx, and other proven system-sellers. They also need to expand PSVR2's functionality because frankly it's embarrassing that the original PSVR enables users to view 3D movies and sporting events while PSVR2 users can't. Kinda undermines the whole "superior architecture" vibe.
I've said it before and it bears repeating: if PSVR2 fails, it's entirely on Sony. And if it does, it's going to alienate every consumer who took a chance on it.
I hope it’s not true, but Sony has made some questionable decisions like PS direct. I’d have one if they hadn’t done that. I was quite excited about it too. They limited promotion and sales on purpose then ended up potentially needing to cut production/estimates a bit. .
I think it’s safe to say someone got a little excited about noble ideas and over estimated the lack of any negative impact those ideas would have.
They really need to just put it in retailers and not further nichify an an already niche device.
To me the games it has suck, and theirs nothing announced thats exciting.
I own the first PSVR, and have enjoyed my time with it the few times I played it. But I would never again pay that high of a price at launch for something I played on occasions.
Also, their QA is not very good right now. I received my new VR a few days ago and the lenses are dirty on the inside and I can't clean it. Have to file a warranty replacement because I threw out the original box.
Here we go again. And why not? It's a proven way to get clicks.
I heard they've sold just over 460k so far from someone who would know, so I find this all very amusing.
PSVR2 is insanely good value people trust me. If you’re on the fence, don’t be! Go out and get one from wherever you can and buy GT7, Jurassic park and Cities VR. In tbe words of the great Ray Winston of’v Bet365 commercials… You’ll Lave it!
Agree or not, these gadget sales are heavily based on individual feelings of buyer.
And now imagine, just imagine, that one person in SONY marketing switch on one of his brain cell and say: "What if we send few VR panel sets into retailer shops, where customers can experience it on their own eyes?"
For now they made opposite. Locked any experience behind "buy and than test" instead of "test and buy" and that is deadly for this products (pretty expensive products).
@PlatinumKing can't stop playing it. It's just amazing. It will take another generation of HMD tech to have really great visuals. The sweet spot of PSVR2 is really small, and greater FOV would be appreciated 😅... Anyway it's great. I've had the PSVR and also have a quest2, it's not much better than Q2 in PCVR apart from the OLED screen.
I love my PSVR 2 and I want it to succeed, but I can see why it’s failing.
For one thing it really needs a huge game to make people take notice like idk maybe Half Life Alyx… I’m certain there are many gamers that so desperately want to experience this game that just don’t have the means to run pc vr like myself. Now it can be argued that one game alone won’t sell such expensive hardware but I’m sure there are people on the fence that need that one final push.
Secondly I think Sony has been doing an awful job marketing it. It just doesn’t feel like they are pushing for it to get exposure beyond the hard core audience that already are aware of it. I’ve had this conversation before with friends, but I feel VR is something you have to experience first hand. I think hosting demo events (maybe partnering with a store like Best Buy) to allow people to try it for themselves would go a long way to show the value in the platform.
And finally the one unavoidable problem is not everybody is going to have the necessary space or are willing to rearrange their home to accommodate for it.
I do have one other personal issue that has kept me from playing it for the past few weeks as I just adopted a kitten and the fact that it’s wired is an issue because she likes to go after the cable while I use it so I’m still trying to figure out a solution for this 😂
I'm starting to wonder if people even know what a realistic total sales number for this headset to be considered a success is. Most games that are considered successes on PS4 only sell around 5 million copies, I would assume that if VR2 gets at least half that over its lifespan that would be a success. Anyone that things this thing is a 10mill 20mil product is just outright delusional and calling it a bomb because it doesn't or won't hit those numbers is just stupid. Honestly I'd say it'll be a modest success if it hits at least 2.5mil.
I honestly don't even consider this alot more expensive than the psvr1. The bundle that had everything in the box cost $499 so it was only slightly cheaper for all the things you likely needed. I think it's biggest problem is the economy right now with inflation causing people to not wanna spend that much on it.
@Yozora146_ Half of the PSVR1 sales for a headset that should be able to last longer and be easier to develop for would be a big failure. PSVR1 sold 5 million in 2019.
Really think Sony is waiting until the rumored showcase to show a lot of VR games off.
@Jaz007 aye, I agree it would be a dissapointment but given how terrible the economy is in a lot of places I'd assume that should be taken into account.
I was a day one PSVR owner. From day one I had issues with tracking which I just couldn’t fix. The drift was insane. Within five or ten minutes I’d be facing out my window instead of toward my television. I was having to reset it every minute or two, which is frustrating when you’re playing Thumper or something. I tried everything. Closer, farther, brighter, dimmer. Eventually I stopped worrying about it and sold it on. I kept buying the occasional PSVR game as I figured once PSVR2 was out, I’d hop back on board.
Then they announced there was no backward compatibility. Some games would be upgraded and some wouldn’t, and some were paid and some were, well, most were paid. It killed my enthusiasm for the product, especially after how well they handled BC with the PS5.
I just don’t have any interest in paying out the nose for tech that won’t be supported in a few years, while sitting on hundreds of dollar’s worth of games I can’t play.
People need to chill out. Sony WILL have plans. Breathe people, breathe.
@get2sammyb @StylesT Impossible I'd say, I tried it and didn't complete one race!
where is resident evil 4remake VR updates? where is astrobot 1 VR and its sequel? portal 3 vr?
@Zander1992 "PSVR2 is going to be a complete failure".
For the gamer inside me, it has been the biggest success since the original PlayStation.
I’m sure I saw somewhere that the Apple AR/VR headset is going to be priced near the $3000 mark .
@Wheatly I actually think that support for psvr 1 was pretty good and didn't "dry up". Even in the year of the psvr2 announcement (2021) we got Hitman 3 , Moss 2,Wanderer and Doom 3 all of which I'm sure were paid for in some way by Sony.
Saints and sinner 2 is even releasing soon as well.
@TheCollector316 I'll break it down for you:
Companies exist to generate profit to shareholders, hence financial incentive is the only incentive.
The small margin Sony has (if any) on the PSVR2 device itself is not enough financial incentive for the product to exist. As with any corporation that is in the games console business, the real money comes from the software side. The hardware is a mean to an end.
Sony gets a 30% cut on every third-party game sold on PlayStation. 100% on first party. Sony makes no money on PC software sales. So why on Earth would they support PSVR2 on that platform?
The timing for the launch of this thing wasn't ideal: arguably still not a big enough number of PS5s in homes, coupled with massive inflation and a solid but not amazing lineup. And the cost doesn't help either. It looks like a great product, just not one with an inspiring library right now, and too expensive for people looking to get by.
@Art_Vandelay
Quite simply, they would sell PS VR2 on PC to boost the install base and keep the device alive. Any game of theirs they sell on PC, they would get at least 70% of and that includes their PS VR2 games, so it would not be 0% PS VR2 software revenue like it is now. Of course, it matters if Sony decides to make PS VR2 software of their own or not. A larger install base would certainly help with that decision.
Even scalpers couldn't make any money. In this day and age, that tells you all you need to know.
Amusing that the 'pancake' label that VR fans love to throw about as some weird slur is going to end up squashing this monstrosity flat.
Good thing a respected "Apple Insider" would have no motivation or reason to try to make bad PR for Sony PSVR2, right?
JFC.
@BusyOlf Yep, and it's going to be more for work in the "metaverse", educational training, and the military.
@Wormwood23 you do realize he was not trying to put Sony down right? He also pointed out lackluster sales of Meta too. He focuses on Apple and is pointing out that Apple is going to have a huge uphill battle to selling their expensive headset and it will likely not meet expectations. He is a financial analyst; he doesn’t give two craps how Sony does or if Apple sells more headsets.
As someone who follows Apple and knows the source well it cracks me up that people here are somehow alluding to the fact that Kuo has an “agenda” against Sony. He doesn’t give two craps about the PSVR2. He is a financial analyst focused on the supply side in China and is simply warning Apple investors to not get their hopes up that the Apple mixed reality headset is going to be the next iPhone or iPad. Has very very little to do with PSVR2.
@Wormwood23 I thought Microsoft and the US military were each others hand puppets when it came to AR tech on the killing fields?
@get2sammyb exactly and the focus of his statement had nothing to do with PSVR2. It was on Apple and the uphill battle they will have. He also talked about poor Meta sales too which further backs his point. If anything, he is concerned about the entire VR market.
@Art_Vandelay 💯
@BusyOlf actually I think the technology was so bad and the military was pissed they want their money back
@Styledvinny79 Plan how to scratch whole VR, because it is dead end as same as 3D movies.
Go figure a product that literally has not been made available for sale anywhere people actually buy things that you have to be actively going out of your way to find it to find out it's available is selling slowly? I'm shocked! I'm aghast! I blame Jim Ryan! (No, really.)
@get2sammyb PSVR2+GT7 killed the whole Forza, and basically every other racing series for me permanently, that's for sure!
@Wheatly The headset hasn't been out of stock, but actually the controller charger was for a while...weird...but true.
@get2sammyb
Thing is with the Q2 at £399 and the Pico 4 for the same you can have 99% of the experience + wire-free on the PC where games tend to be found 30% cheaper and in addition there are a whole load more of them for VR.
If Sony realises they are in a competitive market with PCVR they will see their price isn't, well competitive. In a captive market against the Xbox then they have no competition and hence the price.
VR headsets simply dont sell for $600 notes these days. Not like the $399 ones do that offer 95% of the experience.
It has to be £399 at most imho; crikey just over 6 months ago the Q2 was selling for £299; against that price the PSVR2 is simply not a sensible proposal.
Removed - unconstructive
@Mikey856 Bet365 is gambling though, so too is psvr2 it seems.
Rather than focus on crying to regulators around the globe about the MS ABK acquisition, maybe Jim should be focused on games and lowering the price for this product.
@TheCollector316 Again, you're failing to do the math.
On one side, you have the revenue from the few Sony first-party games potentially sold on PC. On the other side, you have the massive engineering investment to make this thing work reliably on PC. I guess you have no idea of how expensive this would be. The PC ecosystem is a mess, and the VR scene there is a nightmare. The risk far outweighs the gain. Sorry, not gonna happen.
I get that you want PSVR2 on PC. It would be a great deal, that's for sure. But note: a great deal to you, not to Sony. Wishful thinking always gets in the way when making this sort of analysis. Look through your own bias.
@get2sammyb Not if you're about to vomit after 2 minutes with the headset on.
Well, just another "analyst" trolling the f out of everybody.
Stop reacting to click bait y'all!
Just buy a PSVR2 for a change!
<3
You know things aren't going so well for a hardware product when there are more articles about how badly it's doing than there are about anything being released for it.
It has also quickly become the sort of thing that when spoken about in presentations is going to be more of an annoyance that takes up time than something to be interested in. The discourse around it is already starting to get tiresome.
@get2sammyb you say the same about Jeff Grubb who’s been promising a PlayStation showcase for 2 years tbf 😂😂
PSVR2 certainly has its work cut out for it. Even if you are fortunate enough to be able to afford it in a tough global economy you have to ask yourself if you can justify the purchase. I certainly can't at this point in time given the size of my current backlog and my previous experience with PSVR. I know I would be infatuated with the VR2 for a short period of time but then go back to playing other games and the unit would just gather dust and take up room in my apartment. I hope I can pick one up in a few years when it is much cheaper and has a selection of games I actually want to play on it. By that time the system may already be dead. So be it. That's Sony's problem to figure out, not mine.
Cost of living crisis, £550 🤷🏻♂️
VR is DOA at the moment, even Apple investors are asking Apple what they have planned for a sector that the general public are showing very little interest in. I think it’s cool, but does cause me some eye strain. I won’t be getting Sony’s, Meta or even Apples VR sets. But for those that like it, i hope it remains relevant enough to be a thing.
What’s with gaming media trying to kill VR before it can get going? Constantly reporting on rumors that make little sense when one stops for even a moment to think about them.
It’s a premium product that can only be purchased from Sony directly. I don’t buy for a second that they thought they would sell 2 million units in the first month of release when it took PSVR1 10 months to sell a million.
Yet gaming media insists on doing everything they can to bury it before it even gains traction. Self fulfilling prophecy so they can be right I guess.
It’s a terrific piece of tech with an incredible fun and large library of games already. Honestly, shame on this site for adding another negative voice to unsubstantiated rumors.
I’ve said since they announced PSVR2 the way to avoid failure was to make it work with PCVR. VR is incredibly niche and a lot of VR enthusiasts are PC users. Opening the hardware for use with SteamVR not only would have sold a lot more hardware but way more software. It was too costly a product to release to such a limited potential user base in what is already a recession in all but name here in the States. Not shocking. Hopefully they don’t ditch support super quick.
@Smiffy01 @Boxmonkey yes it is if money is a problem. If you’re lucky enough to have some put aside for extravagance (and why not) Then it’s totally worth it I say. VR is the pinnacle of gaming!
Maybe it's just me but if I wasn't into playstation or visited gaming websites I wouldn't know psvr2 is even a thing. They don't seem to be shouting about it much, or at least I personally have seen little to no advertising since it's launch.
@get2sammyb It is selling much better than Quest pro right now. And it is performing much better than PSVR 1 in the first month. In fact, PSVR 2 beats Quest 2 AND Quest pro in its sales in March in Japan according to some Japanese data. So far there is only one source saying PSVR 2 is not selling well, i.e., Bloomberg. YET most PSVR 2 are sold through Playstation's website. I seriously doubt the speculated figure that Bloomberg obtained from IDC.
The funny thing is PSVR 2's sales is far better than Quest pro. And no one seems to be talking about how bad Quest pro and its sales are. I don't think Sony can make more than 2 million PSVR 2 this year. That's why it is still selling it in its own website cause Sony will not be able to meet the demand. And Sony just started to advertise PSVR 2 for the same reason. So far all the rumors about PSVR 2 not selling well is generated by one and only one source, i.e. Bloomberg. And Bloomberg claimed that the sale figure was given to it by IDC. But IDC did not publish the 270,000 figure. That figure was disclosed by Bloomberg, not IDC. And there is no way for IDC to get the real figure because most of PSVR 2 sales went through Playstation's website.
@rakghoul
The update for Resident Evil 4 Remake VR, what will be a free add on to the game that came out two weeks ago, is that they’ve just begun work on it. I wouldn’t expect it until early 2024.
Astrobot in any fashion has been a surprising no show.
Otherwise, the lineup is nuts and I say this because I’ve played almost every game for it so far. Even stuff you might not normally think twice about like Zombieland is some of the most fun I’ve ever had in the realm of gaming.
My problem is the price. I have no doubt it’s worth it but also, that doesn’t automatically make me able to afford it. Someday I’d like to get this, and I plan to, but right now there’s no way in hell.
High price, not BWC, small library, no PC support. Not surprising at all why this thing is not selling.
Still waiting for the 100% so we can move past this pointless resource glutton.
Niche product is niche
With all the negative articles written about it, its failure is quickly becoming a self fulfilled prophecy, the same way the vita failed thanks to the Western media constantly bashing it the months before it came out. Then it became the butt of the joke and gamers had no interest in it.
I fear the same is happening with PSVR2.
@SilverShamrock they just like traffic and nothing attracts attention as much as failure. Simple as that. Same with pop stars (remember Britney Spears in 2007/8?), movies, etc.
The average reader can't distinguish between rumours and facts, sadly.
@cburg ah, yes. Because that's how companies work.
It’s great it just needs to be at least available on Amazon, and more games like walking dead
The next Stadia.
I can't understand how the guy in the video disagrees that the launch lineup is poor. 🤦🏼♂️
@Zander1992 VR was always going to contribute to the obligatory decade long stretch of misfired experimental tech. Last time it was motion controls. Before, it was 3D TVs. It's bolstered by a small portion of the community, backed by a tiny hardcore install base, and eventually dropped entirely, just in time for the next gimmick.
As a more casual PS fan, I'd like to share my input to provide some perspective "outside the bubble", so to speak.
I haven't bought one, despite owning a PS5, and both PSVR and HTC Vive. Here's why:
1) After the initial wow factor wore off a month or two post-purchase, VR (at least for me) became nothing more than a more cumbersome way to play less extraordinary games. It's fine once in a blue moon, like a theme park. But not something I want to partake in often.
2) Having been burned by Sony abandoning the Vita and PSVR with mediocre support once it was clear they weren't that successful, I told myself never again will I buy any Sony hardware besides home console, unless it's proven a success first.
3) It's too expensive for the experience it offers. $550 is a lot either way, but if it were something I would use a lot, I'd justify it. But I wouldn't, so I can't justify it.
4) There's no must-play games that makes me say, "wow, I gotta play that immediately!"
As for why it's not doing so well, VR is an extremely niche interest. I understand betting big a few years ago thinking it might blow up, but it just hasn't. Most ppl aren't interested in strapping a massive helmet to their face, especially wired and especially requiring separate hardware. The enthusiasts will, but they're a very small minority. It's also extremely expensive, and is only sold on their direct site.
VR might be able to survive being wired, and even requiring separate hardware, but until it's as slim as a pair of glasses like visor and at a $199 price point, it's not really going to catch on beyond the enthusiast crowd. I think AR is where the future is at in the near term, with new waveguide technology making it compact enough to look like a normal pair of thin-frame glasses.
It's not that the product is bad (though the lack of new compelling software is notable), it's just too expensive and too niche an interest for most consumers. I imagine most who were curious about VR during the boom tried out PSVR or Rift or Vive or Index, got their fill and realized, like me, it's just not something they end up using long term.
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