While future games sound interesting in theory, we already have plenty of older games in our backlog. Oddly, that might be another reason to pick up Sony's shiny mid-gen refresh, the PS5 Pro. PlayStation product manager Toshimasa Aoki has indicated that a specific setting will enhance certain PS4 games and that the extra, boosted performance will even reduce PSVR2-induced motion sickness.
Japanese outlet 4Gamer spoke to Aoki (thanks, PSLS), who said that an Image Quality Boost feature allows for simple upscaling on PS5 currently, without utilising PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution (PSSR). On PS5 Pro, Aoki says this can be used to enhance the performance of titles that support variable frame rates. Elsewhere, Aoki says that this boost will even benefit PSVR2 users, alleging that the enhanced performance (and thus, fewer dropped frames) will reduce the motion sickness some users experience.
Of course, it remains to be seen how impactful these boosts will ultimately be, but still, its hard to complain. What do you think, is a PS5 Pro just what you need to dive into your PS4 backlog? Let us know in the comments section below.
[source 4gamer.net, via playstationlifestyle.net]
Comments 124
Could care less about PSVR games. But nice to see some BC love from Sony. Too bad we can’t get no RDR2 love from Rockstar. So if this gives the game anything I’d take it.
if it wasnt for the price i would probably get one
I would have to sell my current PS5 if I wanted to 'afford' the new Pro.
I kinda want to, now that it even promises small improvements for PSVR2, my PS4 and 5 backlog. Also, after reading a user in here's breakdown of the potential upsides of my use case I think it will improve my experiences overall but only incrementally. So.... I will definitely wait for first adoptee reactions. Might even wait for the first discount of the system! When did PS4 Pro first get discounted!?
It will also sing to you and fill your home with a fresh pine scent.
I have 4 thoughts about this: R. D. R. 2. As mama told me, a simple man should forget his lust for the rich man’s gold. So i will have a simple dream
@EfYI with the current cost of… well everything… I wouldn’t look to past trajectories on when this will be discounted. I would guess when PS6 comes out.
@EfYI I got my ps4 pro with a 50.00 discount on Black Friday just like a month and a half after launch but we are living on a different world now
Really looking forward to it. Glad it’s a very short wait.
I don't see the point of hyping this feature... how many ps4 games there are with unlocked frame rates that do not reach 60 on amateur PS5....
@Enuo and make you breakfast.
Are these VR2’s compatible with PS4? I’m honestly not well informed on technology….
@LavenderShroud PSVR1 = PS4, PSVR2 = PS5
Well I would expect it to. There really is no excuse moving forwards for Sony's consoles to not be able to run it's ps4 catalogue and improve the ps4's games performance levels. The architecture is more and more like a PC so should in theory play every game thus making the PlayStation eco system much more viable and tempting to people who haven't moved on from the ps4 yet.
@Yousef- Gotcha. Thanks for answering that. I wasn’t sure at all.
@LavenderShroud all’s well. 👍
'Because we have nothing new to share to promote this overpriced new thing. Please Buy this new thing to replay old things you've already played, some from a previous generation mind you, but... "better!?"'
(we lost a lot of money making ***** you didn't want, so... . Please, just buy the thing).
Nah, I'm good
PS4 Pro Plus Premium. The best PlayStation 4 (TM) console yet!
I find out interesting that the main thing they keep promoting about the pro is what a great PS4 it is. Plus rebirth.
"We believe in generations. Specifically the 6th and 8th generations."
Yeah any psvr2 games that were held back by performance issues will get a bump, and vr devs are usually responsive with updates.
@Enuo By "fresh pine" you mean "heated plastic outgas" right?
@Medic_alert No, he specifically said games that have "variable fps" (uncapped). So it does what PS5 already does only even more power if any games still weren't hitting 60 (or 90 In VR) . Xbox game boost was about patching games that were capped to double their fps. This isn't that. And publishers stopped approving those so they could sell it as a $70 remaster instead.
I wish we can just get some solid info on this and not these vague explanations 🤦🏻♂️ I think we can already guess that the AI will upscale the resolution, but the current PS5 already boosts PS4 games with variable frame rates just fine, so we need to know if locked 30fps games will get some sort of boost. That's what the people want to know! 😬 Give us the numbers!
@NEStalgia PS6 will be PS4 Plus Premuim Crystal Diamond Premium ™️
I'm dying for the list of PS4 games that are enhanced
I'm waiting for news on enhancing the PS1/PS2 emulated games
PSVR2 / PS5 is already really good at eliminating motion sickness (between this and PSVR /PS4 it’s night and day), but will it prevent ghosting on games that implement reprojection, that’s the main thing.
@Balie3000
If the devs have locked the game at 30, then the game is locked at 30, Regardless of hardware.
@Czar_Khastik then you’re clearly in for a ride when you find out about the ps1 pro! (Source: Trace T. Maybro).
@thefourfoldroot1 Yea I know 😕 I'm just a big dreamer
I see the hype train keeps chugging along. My friend pre-ordered one. I bought a 32 inch Alienware 4K/120 OLED monitor for the price of just the console (without the bluray drive and the stand) to be ready for PS6, which might actually utilise those specs properly.
I thought it was really good of Sony to refund Switchback VR for me because it was giving me such terrible motion sickness. I had to call in to get the refund but I appreciate them breaking their own policy in this case.
I forced myself through the first level and practically threw up. Not only did I get motion sick while playing, I felt motion sickness for almost 2 hours after I stopped, something I haven’t experienced before. Even turning the camera in World of Warcraft was making me sick.
@Czar_Khastik those games already look great in 8k tho. Who doesn’t love 8k polygons?
@HonestHick So you do care about them then
"is a PS5 Pro just what you need to dive into your PS4 backlog?"
Nope, just need a decent PS4 - the not-overpriced Pro if you can get one.
Seriously, the amateur PS5 is becoming more irrelevant with every announcement New Sony makes...
These improvements will all need a magnifying glass to see too I presume 😂
All this means is that all titles that have a hard time reaching stable framerates, utilize VRR or had a really optimistically set up dynamic resolution, will run more stable, will have higher framerates and will run in higher resolution respectively. For PS4 games, this was already mostly solved by base PS5, so i don't understand why they're promoting PS5 Pro like this, when theres basically nothing to enhance anymore…
(Locked 60 fps can't be any smoother than 60 fps, 150fps instead of 120fps in VRR is useless and 2.8K cap on dynamic resolution means the game can't even get to a native 4K by the design, so more computing power won't help here… Also, PS4 games supported VRR? I don't think so – That came with PS5 era, no?)
PS5 Pro is exactly what I need !
I'll be ordering one as soon as PS6 launches.
Hopefully by then it'll receive more than a handful of new 1st party releases, to actually merit the investment.
@thefourfoldroot1 how does Xbox does it with game boost? Example evil within is locked at 30fps but with game boost it runs 60fps
I cancelled my PS5 Pro pre-order, just going to wait for the PS6 in a couple of years time.
@kingtoten
I just spent 25 minutes looking for evidence of this and can’t find any. Please provide a link to your claim that Evil Within or any other game can break its frame rate lock by playing on series X. It looks like even on PC it needed a patch to remove the cap.
Will it do Dolby Vision? Will it play 3d Blue Ray's? Does ray tracing work in PSVR 2 ? Yes I am not a technical guy. 😄😄😄
Moan moan moan. That's all you ever hear from most people. Can we stop with the constant moaning and look at the positives. If you can't justify spending £700 on a Pro that's fine, but don't then constantly moan. It's a lot of money, yes, but the more of these articles we get, the more people can make an informed decision whether they want to purchase the Pro. No matter what, you can't deny that the machine is an improvement, and will run things better. It's just it gets tiresome listening to all the moaning minnies just because they can't justify the purchase. It's all about options/choices.
As far as i know all of my PS4 games that either received a patch to run at 60fps on PS5 or has unlocked framerate are hitting 60fps on my base PS5
GT7 with PSVR2 need the help from PS5 PRO to improve LOD distance and add more definition, also may hit native 120fps??
@Pranwell
Hear, hear!
Perhaps the day will never come, but I'm waiting for a Pro with a disc drive. I refuse to play the scalping game trying to hunt one down now, and I'm not buying a PS console without one. Your move, Sony.
@NEStalgia do you remember when people on here used to say i didn’t buy a PS5 to play old games? It was in response to Xbox’s push on BC. Sorry i keep receipts. As some that didn’t care much for PS4 games, i would like to see Sony get back to making the PS5 its own Gen. but they might have to play it safe after Concord. Maybe Bluepoint, Naughty Dog and a few others will make that truly stand out game.
@Blaze215 we've done this dance before, I'm still waiting for the "8K" that my PS5 box advertised lol
@BiosNova i care about PSVR games about as much as Concord. However i preordered a PS5 Pro, so i would like to see some good 3rd party titles take advantage of the Pro, please make RDR and RDR2 better.
@Pranwell @Shwing Its the attitude of people like you that is lowering the standard of gaming your the ones that buy any old tat so companies care less about making a decent console a PS4 with a turnip attached and call it a PS5 I could buy a PS5 or a PS5 With two turnips (we all know they were caught on the hop because of microsoft) it is not like we cannot go out and buy one tomorrow we would rather wait a couple of years for a PS6 and anything we missed out on of the PS5's pathetic offering we can gleefully play on the PS6 in the meantime the PS4 without turnips is more than good enough for me .to the People at Push Square i'm sorry this had to be said.
I heard it will also cure cancer and erectile disfunction
@NEStalgia You’re doing it wrong, it’s like this:
Sony - We know generations.
Also Sony - Spend $700 to play all your last gen games at a higher frame rate.
“Get Ready! Get Set! To go spend all your money on the all new, generation* defining, ‘PS4 Go Pro Gadget Go Pro Go’!!! Financing options are available.” 🤑
@Number09
" in the meantime the PS4 without turnips is more than good enough for me"
That's fine, you obviously have lower standards than I do - personally I want as good a performance as possible, and that's what the Pro is giving me. Once again, it's no difference to a PC owner upgrading their GPU to attain a higher quality experience - or someone upgrading their phone. But for some reason people seem to begrudge the PS5 the same courtesy. If it's not for you, it's not for you - we all have varying standards.
…………… *coughs………… bullshot
I don't have motion sickness in PS5 VR2 so I don't need PS5 PRO.
There are a few things all of the "$700 to play old PS4 games you've already played before, but better" people are forgetting. The first is that there are people who haven't had a PS4 or PS5, so the PS5 Pro would be the best choice for them. Secondly, plenty of people have a good sized backlog of PS4 and PS5 games and feel it's worth the jump to the Pro to play them. Lastly, pretty certain nearly every NEW AA and AAA game that releases after the Pro will have Pro features/upgrades. It's not just old titles.
@thefourfoldroot1
Here you go. FPS Boost is amazing, a big reason I bought some of these games on the SeriesX.
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/fpsboost/
https://www.purexbox.com/guides/all-fps-boost-games-for-xbox-series-x-and-xbox-series-s
Pretty sizable list too that Microsoft have essentially hacked to run at 60fps.
@Raffles
Yes we know boost exists, that wasn’t in doubt. You might be a bit confused. It sounded like you meant the series X automatically can go over a games hard 30fps cap without changing the game code. But now you are linking to talk of a boost program that requires work to go over those limitations. Indeed, a program that seems scrapped.
In you article it says: “ Microsoft has since explained that there are no more plans for FPS Boosted titles "in the immediate future", primarily due to "finding where some of the limitations of our current technique is."”
Your first link said it released in 33 titles.
We were discussing whether the Pro could go over a cap without more work, and no, because that’s what cap meant. Just as the X can’t.
This FPS boost program is different to series X or PlayStation back compat mode, which will be useful in games mostly with variable resolution.
@Almost_Ghostly
Yes, it’s mandated that every new game released must have a pro mode. Which is a bit sad as far as I’m concerned, as devs focus will start shifting from coding just for the base model.
@thefourfoldroot1 You appeared to dispute the idea that FPS Boost exists, saying "if the devs locked the game at 30, it's locked at 30 regardless of hardware".
Clearly that's not true. Even though it required work from Microsoft, there are plenty of 30fps games running at 60fps on a SeriesX, with no developer input.
So maybe it's you who's confused?
@Raffles
Well, obviously devs can go back and reprogram if they want. If a platform holder has a program that lets them go to the devs to change the code, fine. But in the context of what everyone was talking about that is not relevant. This is about hardware. The Pro specifically.
VR sickness is VR sickness, what a load of bollocks. I suffer pretty bad with it, its basically your brain saying your moving but your not moving. FPS games totally mess me up.
Oh good, but that doesn't mean Sony will make more AAA psvr2 games so.. whatever
@thefourfoldroot1 I apologize maybe I gave you a bad example since I can't find any evidence myself here's other examples
All ac games runs 60 fps on SX (if i'm not mistaken Blackflag and syndicate are the only ones that run 30fps )
Also Watch dogs 1 & 2 run 60 fps on SX but on Ps they run 30fps
I can Confirm watch dogs because I personally played it myself on SX.
Unless last gen some games on Xbox were uncapped and some games on PS were capped that's the only thing that comes to my mind.
@thefourfoldroot1 "Which is a bit sad as far as I’m concerned, as devs focus will start shifting from coding just for the base model."
If the Pro is similar levels of adoption as PS4 Pro was, they won't. Getting a "pro mode" means just adding a mode with higher target resolution or fps targeted. A lot of devs will just set the slider and build to meet the requirement if it doesn't seem like a big portion of their market. SOME devs will release terribly performing games and say "well it works well on Pro" though. And looking at MH Wilds' PC specs being absurd, I'm betting that's a big one that will do that. 4060 to do 1080p@60 with DLSS+Frame Gen? Yikes. REEngine sucks.
@HonestHick LOL, yep, and who can forget Jimbo's "why would anybody want to play this" (old Ridge Racer), and here they are with their newest console and can't stop talking about PS4.
@Medic_alert Fair enough. But, yeah, a game that's already uncapped should already be able to do this on PS5, and a game that is capped, can't just magically do this on fast hardware, not even on PC, the game needs to be modded, which is more or less what MS was doing before publishers started refusing. If it had fuzzy upscaling before it will probably scale sharper if it's using PSSR.
@kingtoten
I think everyone is getting confused here by “boost mode” on Series consoles, and just games performing better on new machines if they have dynamic res and uncapped resolutions. The games you mentioned were part of a limited time Series boost program that required each game to be manually worked on by a dev. They are in the list provided by Raffles above
https://www.purexbox.com/guides/all-fps-boost-games-for-xbox-series-x-and-xbox-series-s
@NEStalgia
Yes, I agree. But towards the end of the gen your second scenario will increasingly come to pass. When things should be being pushed to the metal, instead of having incredibly well optimised games for the hardware as in prior gen’s, we’ll now be getting excuses.
@thefourfoldroot1 Yeah, I agree. I fundamentally disagree with the whole notion of "pro models" and "mid-gen upgrades." PS4 Pro was fine, it was mostly just "PS4 for 4k displays." PCs with an upgrade treadmill available is fine, and in part is fine because you can scale your graphics accordingly to your hardware anyway, but on console the entire point of the console is that the games are supposed to be scaled to run right on it to begin with, and this, as you say, just gives devs an excuse to not do that. Although TBH, if the state of how games have been for the first half already is anything to go by, I suspect half the games were going to run like garbage on P5 whether pro existed or not.
It's a weird gen. The hardware was just too underpowered because it launched too early, and while PC experienced this paradigm shift to using AI scaling and framegen, and games are designed with that in mind, the consoles for some reason didn't bother taking that seriously in their 2019 designs, and it feels like all current games are just made with PC/next gen in mind, and as long as it putters along on current consoles for a few years, good enough....they can sell the remaster in 3 years at $80. In comes PS5 Pro to add the key missing feature, for a premium, devs will love that PS5 joined their current development strategy.....and it'll apply to like 10-15% of the console base. It's a mess, really.
@Medic_alert Yeah, I forget the interviews and all that talked about that, but that's why we stopped seeing FPS Boost titles. They ran out of the ones they could get working easily, they had some that worked but had some game breaking bug somewhere in the game that they couldn't get past so they had to cancel them (a few released and then they pulled them due to finding a bug it caused.) And then a lot of publishers started to decline allowing their game to be modded, presumably because they realized instead of MS giving free 60fps patches, they could charge $70 for a "remaster" instead.
Obviously on PC there's always community mods that try to get games to 60fps, but even there it's kind of rare, because a lot of games that are locked at 30fps have actual game logic, sound, etc tied to the 30fps loop and too much of the game breaks if you try to speed it up. Or then you have modern cases like FFXVI that has an official 60 mode, but even on PC, even on 4090's something inside is so tied to 30fps that it still just doesn't work well. The game dives into the 40fps's even on 4090 without dynamic res and framegen. People can get to to stable 60 static res without frame gen if they turn off the RT features. On a freaking 4090.... A lot of times a 30fps game is simply internally 30fps and nothing really can change it without redoing a lot of work. I'm sure that's the issue with everyone screaming for Bloodborne. It probably has internal systems and all timed against the rendering, and forcing it starts breaking the game. I'm betting a Bluepoint remake of that will be a PS6 launch title.
But yeah, I can't figure out what they're talking about here, because what they describe is what PS5 already does. Unless they mean games the PS5 still can't hit stable targets. Or maybe what they mean is dynamic RES (not fps) will stay at max res. Something like that makes sense. But the hardware can't magically make a locked game unlocked. Neither on console nor PC does throwing a 5090 at it make it run faster if it's internally limited. All you can do is max its max.
Their messaging is becoming Xbox-like. Maybe they share their staff lol. I mean, yeah, you know my opinion that a 45% GPU boost and an AI upscaler is kind of sad for the money. BUT at least you'd think they'd market that aspect of it which is what it really does. Instead for some reason they won't talk much about that and keep talking about how it's a great PS4 in ways that don't make sense. It's like they've given up on anyone caring about PS5 games and just want to sell improved PS4s since everyone loves that console lol. And then they're trying to market it based on "reduces PSVR2 motion sickness". Kind of a weird angle. They sold so few PSVR2's, and they're not marketing an improved VR experience, just...reduces motion sickness, where anyone with VR motion sickness probably didn't keep their PSVR2 anyway.
It's always been that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, and I suspect here this is a case where, Jim commissioned the product, Cerny designed the product Jim commissioned, and Japan is scratching their heads figuring out wtf it's for.
@Balie3000 You are overcomplicating this. Think in PC terms. Whatever the cap (30, 60, 120 fps), if a game drops frames on the PS5, the more powerful GPU of the Pro should help them get closer to the target framerate.
The extent of it depends on how far the PS5 is from that target, and also the cause of the performance bottleneck: if the game is mainly CPU bound, the Pro will actually do very little.
Another potential gain that people don't mention as often, is resolution. Most current games employ some form of DRS (dynamic resolution scaling). And when they run on the Pro, they should get much closer to the resolution ceiling, improving image quality. And that is exclusively dependent on the GPU.
@NEStalgia Se the reply above. It's actually quite simple. Think Elden Ring. It's like upgrading your GPU. The messaging sounds weird simply because they try to put very technical stuff in layman's terms, adding silly marketing terms.
Not sure if you watched the Digital Foundry hands-on video, but what sold me on the Pro was the footage from F1 2024. The added ray tracing features genuinely looks like a generational leap.
Sure, few games will take advantage of the new hardware to that effect, but the potential is definitely there.
@NEStalgia i remember all the PS fans on here saying they didn’t buy a PS5 to play old games. I also remember them saying they all had gaming PC’s so Xbox games were no longer a miss for them. But i digress. We all know better than that.
@Number09
Make your own decisions with your own wallet. This attempt to belittle something you don't want to win an internet argument is really, really sad.
Also, for some of the others in the comments, if you can't see the differences in this comparison video, you are deliberately trying to extend a meme. Stop being so obtuse.
@Art_Vandelay Right, for PS5 games that struggle to hit targets. But this statement is about PS4 games. What PS4 games failed to hit targets on a PS5. And if PS5 is poor though that it can't even run PS4 games to spec, why does it exist?
@HonestHick Deep down inside, everybody is Patcher.
@NEStalgia HAHA. That dude makes the weatherman look like a future teller. If half of what he said was true, MS wouldn’t be doing an survey asking dev’s for feedback. I don’t know. But i am looking forward to playing Diablo 4 and others on PS5 Pro. Xbox is just doing next to nothing at the moment. SF DLC was trash, i ain’t paying $30 for it. They needed Gear of War E-Day ready for this holiday to go toe to toe with PS5 Pro and be a huge standout game in an empty slot. Once GTA6 comes out is when all these other big games are suppose to hit. Good luck, as we have seen one major game can take up loads of players time and money. Fortnite takes away money from others devs and games as much as it makes for itself. Cause 1/3 of the gaming population is playing it.
I’m buying a PS5 Pro so I can finally get 8k 120 FPS on my Ace Attorney games and other visual novels. Gonna be skipping text at the speed of light!
It is an expensive console, so I would hope games performance are improved enough to be noticed by the player.
Those of you who get one I hope you enjoy it.
I got my PS5 slim digital last week and that's enough for me and my old TV.
Woah, it obviously does that what it should be doing. What it also needs to do is be forward compatible, meaning ps6 with slightly degraded performance, but I'm sure that'll be where Sony cuts the line with their "we're moving away from hardware generations" talk. Prove me wrong and I'll consider getting a pro once it's cheaper.
Play all of your old PS4 games....again !
@HonestHick Well, I think Indiana Jones is their big holiday game, and it has much broader appeal as a family title than e day so they had their lineup right. But, then.... They decided to put it on PS and make it better on the pro so.... They dgaf. To be fair though Xbox point is they always have had a pro and it's much better and more expensive than PS5 pro, so I don't think they're worried about that. If you into the Xbox ecosystem and want ultra pro performance, they've got Windows keys for $100 for you, byod. And really that's not a bad viewpoint. But I'm still not sure they should be sharing the pot with the company the refuses to share its pot.
Then again, originally Sony didn't view Xbox as a competitor and intended to publish on Xbox. It was Kutaragi that threw a fit and stopped that. So even 20 years ago, Sonys own thinking wasn't so different from Microsofts now. And to be fair, kutaragi nearly destroyed PlayStation after that.
VR2 support? I thought the f**king Sony stopped its support. Just judging by the RELEASED games calendar in 2023-2024. What a disgrace.
Devs are apparently loving the PS5 Pro, Digital foundry seems to approve of the improvements, Many news-sites have tried to build a PC with the same or similar performance for the same money, but they have all come to the conclusion that you can't.
Yet people here are kicking, crying and screaming and making fun of the PS5 Pro.
YES it's expensive! But apparently it's still the cheapest device you can get with that kind of performance.
It has Pro in the name, it's supposed to be a console for the absolute enthusiast, not a successor to the PS5.
Only reason I can see why you are upset, is that you can't afford it for that price, or can't justify paying that much for gaming.
On the PC side on the other hand, people pay the double, triple or even quadrupple without too much complaint.
Take it easy, the PS5 Pro might not be for you then, just get the regular PS5 all games will still work on it, and wait for the PS6.
Yep, 60 fps Red Dead Redemption 2 please and thanks in advance.
Yee ha! R*
@DaniPooo YES it's expensive!
For what it is yes. Some plastic and metals and silicon, have you seen the mainboard of a ps5?
yikes!
@NEStalgia i watched a video today from a reliable leaker that said Sony and Apple are in talks to work together to bring PS exclusive titles to the Mac. Apple will eat the cost of development and pay the marketing and advertising. Could be an interesting move for both. But it just goes to show Sony is looking at other places then PS to get its numbers up and thats with twice as many consoles sold as MS. We will see a lot of changes heading into next gen and Phil was right when he said the way games get made and delivered is going to change for everyone. Another quote of his taken out of context by the diehards only to be right in the end. I would love to see less exclusives if it meant more players playing and buying games. That would help the industry and get us more games in the end. I’m taking the Sony Apple partnership with a grain of salt until i see more of it. But that source is a good one. Remember when everyone was saying Forza was the game coming to PS5 and i was saying Indiana Jones. I got that from him. Not to brag but i got that one right haha.
@HonestHick lol Sony + Apple partnership sounds like the perfectly ideal soul mate match made in hell 😂
But yeah I could see that. So long as it's a plus and not a negative to PC and they don't start Apple exclusive nonsense that's interesting. and frankly more indication that even Sony knows consoles are on a limited future.
Edit At least Apple people get Bungie back? 🤣
@NEStalgia HAHA yeah some of the older heads come back to Apple. Man i don’t even know if any of them are around that was over 20 years ago. Funny how it comes full circle tho.
Apple has some good tech in gaming, Metal and of course the strongest processors using half the power consumption than other processors that are slower. So thats some Apple magic there. But i can’t see Metal and those processors pushing 4090 graphics so it will still be limited, but it does expand Sony’s reach and of course gives Apple a little bit of gaming they lack on the non mobile side. Of course Apple has MS money or more so they got the coin that Sony don’t.
As for consoles, i mean they are the same as they were 20 years ago, outside of the Nintendo market, it’s around 180 million players with Sony taking 120 ish of that. Leaving MS with around 60 million so of course they need to spread their reach out, otherwise everything they produce would be at a loss. Interestingly enough even with 120 million players or so Sony is finding themselves needing PC, Apple and Nintendo. Again Phil was right and the proof is right in front of us and yet so many on here defend Sony to the Hills and back. They clearly have issues and it’s not just Concord. I look to see if anything comes of this Apple and Sony talk or if it just fades away. But i could see it happening if not soon in the future for sure.
@HonestHick It's easy to make a weak processor seem fast when you have total control of what's run on it and when you force everyone to stop running what they want and run what you tell them too instead.... if apple ruled pc gaming, Pc games would have generations and $115 remasters.
I think the main problem is the whole idea of exclusives doesn't work anymore. Yeah it'll force some people to buy the console that wouldn't have but if it doesn't get them to buy lots of other games it doesn't have a point, mainly because only 10% install base even buys the exclusives. It just not why people buy consoles anymore. I think if 50% install base bought them like Nintendo things would be different, but that ship sailed.
@NEStalgia yeah no way more than 10% are paying full price for those games. Sony see’s the numbers, they know they have to expand, but they might not want to or don’t have the infrastructure in place to do so. But it’s coming, they will partner up with someone. I just want to see what this site is going to say when games do start to go day and date with PC. Cause thats another when not if. I do however think Sony will never bring games to Xbox. I just don’t see thier leadership doing it. But i understand if we will see any ports from Sony to the Switch 2? That could be really cool. It be one way to sell games in Japan again. Haha
@HonestHick I'm still not convinced they're doing day and date or 100% pc releases. As a pc customer, I'd like them do, but I'm not sure they intend to. They seem happy using them as bait for selling consoles. But it's still third party that really sells consoles.
I'm not sure I see them going switch any more than Xbox. Big market but too different a dev process and too dangerous a competitor. I think I lot of the classic ps crowd would be happy with only a Nintendo these days.
@NEStalgia if that’s the case, and it very well could be then that only leaves apple and there is no way in the early stages that is going to make very much money for Sony. So if they stick to 300 million dollar single player games on their consoles only, then they are looking at likely small profits again and having to raise game prices or find other ways to make cuts. I just think they are in an odd spot more than people think. Not going out of business odd or anything to bad. But certainly on thin margins and likely less and less investor interest as it’s pennies on the dollar trading.
@HonestHick Heck half the problen with investors is New Tulip Mania. Nobody wants to invest in anything when they can invest in AI companies and 10 mil becomes 100 mil becomes 3bil genuine 2 tril in 5 weeks. (All for companies that lose more money than Xbox and make nothing. )
@NEStalgia no kidding. Most AI uses at the moment are not useful to me. I’m sure it will get better in time. But yeah investors may look at video games and say to small of returns and takes to long to make enough money. Seems risky on anything not named Mario Kart or Fortnite or GTA.
@HonestHick Yeah the AI hype is extreme but where it is right now. I use it occasionally. But it's mostly just another search engine more than anything that can handle more nuance in searches. Half the time the answers are bad or wrong or clearly pulled from reddit. Seems more useful for graphics than anything else.
There's been a few studies, one showing that basically it brings the most incompetent to be equal to the competent but slows down anyone that already knows what they're doing. thus it's main benefit is the ability to replace anyone skilled with kids, interns, and generally entry level forever and get the same results. Endless pay cuts for all. Minimum wage forever!
The other one I've seen is I thinkn from open ai about how much it's used for what. #1 by far was homework. #2 was basically sex chat. Actual business use was pretty down the line. So basically every investor is throwing endless money at a thing that makes no money, costs fortunes to run and is mostly used by school children so they don't need to think and as a sexbot....... Can we PLEASE just nuke Wall Street? Just a small crater, I'm not asking for a lot.
So it wil make old games look sharper with PSSR and run better when the game has an unlocked framerate. Wasn’t the unlocked framerate allready better on PS5? So the only difference will be the PSSR?
@IamJT Unless PS6 costs more.......
@NEStalgia never liked Wall Street, never will. It’s math that don’t math. Crooked system.
@HonestHick 1+1 = 423billion. -1=800billion. Numbers seem off? Phone the fed to print some more money and inject it. =1 trillion!
@torquex does the RTX4090 graphics card contain any other exotic materials? diamonds, gold, intergalactic anti-matter perhaps?
That's a gaming graphics card for the price of about 3 PS5 Pro's.
It's not really about the materials used
@NEStalgia and then wonder why there is no middle class economy left in the United States. Gee really? I wonder why?
@HonestHick Take a glass half full, pour it out into the other glass until it overflows. Still half full! Just have to adjust to the new level of damp surfaces meaning half and you're all set!
I'll never get "used" to thew new economy. In my world, most people are middle, there's some wealthy that live somewhat better than average but still in the same world, a tiny number of "rich and famous" and a small amount of poor. This new echo of the late Roman empire of patricians and plebeians, where all economic activity exists for the top third, and the top third alone, I'll never adapt to, never accept. Thousands of years of wars to end that system, all for nothing, we went right back to it.
@NEStalgia 1000% correct. This current leadership in office has really widen the gap. Food is up 40% or higher on their watch and they ruin what the last administration did for gas prices and other things. The inflation we are seeing right now is the highest in over 7 decades. Forget about house prices. That is just out of reach for most workers these days. Then we got the PS5 Pro hahaha. I really have to eat some crow saying my guess was $600 for the digital and $650 for a disc version. I couldn’t have been more wrong haha
@HonestHick I'm waiting for slavery to go mainstream again. It will. You know it will. We'll rebrand it so it's not called slavery but that's what it'll be. We're 3/4 there already. We're already at a point there's no reason to save money. Every penny you don't spend today will be worth half a penny tomorrow, if you have a bank account balance you're doing it wrong. I don't know when it crashes but I don't see how it doesn't crash. I also don't see a way to fix it. Prices need to crash hard but that'll only happen in recession or at this point depression which may be worse. Wages are never going to magically jump up to match. And even if they do it'll be more that weve seen. The people making 150k will make 300k, the people making 40k will make 48k and be comparatively worse than where we are.. I don't see a way out short of depression, then war, as always. Yet they won't let that happen and will keep printing money to keep it going continuously making it worse. Maybe the plebeians need to be wholesale purged? A new Holocaust where the well born can take their world back from the unwashed inferiors once and for all? I don't see any good ending, just an array of bad ones.
History days wars are the only solution. Big ones. Yet even China hesitates on that front now. Someone will jump eventually.
And then yeah, Sony . All the "but inflation " "but everything is more expensive"...
2015 $2500/mo. -1k housing -800 food and utility -400 PS4 pro - 60 game, and a few pennies left for savings.
2024 $3000/mo -1.4k housing -1300 food and utility - 700 PS5 pro - 70 game.........................
.....
Can consumers do a wall Street math thing and make that leave an extra thousand? Or a Fed thing and just xerox some $100s?
@NEStalgia i hate to agree with ya but sadly the world is a bad bad place. I have a savings account, not much $15k and it took me 5-6 years to build it. Maybe i should build that PC before the banks crash and my savings is gone. I guess I’ll wait for the 5090. That will only draw enough power to make my utilities go up 18%. But hey at least i can play Gears of War E Day in 4K 120.
@HonestHick 4k120.... But only if you turn SSR and AO off, and enable dynamic res and frame gen. Game will work ok on 6090 Super though I'm sure
Yeah that$15k will buy you a rig and a box of oatmeal today, but in 4 years you'll only get a CPU and a 3oz smaller box of oatmeal.
@NEStalgia got that right. Sure ain’t going to buy Salmon and Steak. I read an article on the 5090 yesterday with some speak leaks and it crushes the 4090 obviously, but is rumored to be much higher in cost. As if the 4090’s are cheap. I am like man thats going to hurt. Not that anyone needs it. Most used GPU on steam is far below that, so the devs have to target what the market is using. I am going to laugh if Xbox comes out cheaper than PS5 pro in 2026 and blows the doors off it. Cause I doubt Sony does much of a sale on Pro. Maybe $50 bucks if they need to off load some from the warehouse. Like now, i was in Best Buy today and i seen PS5 slim and Series X for $449.99. Pre Black Friday sale or what!
@HonestHick Yeah I was afraid of that. I'm thinking 2k and that's just asinine. 1600 was too much but it's just not worth it past that. Not even for VR. I got the 4090 but if the prices are right 5080 will be 4090s price. It's really getting priced for a bizarre extreme market like the Titans we're but now for the new economy. Problem with the new economy is there's enough really rich Saudi princes and Russian oil tycoons the the global economy to justify pricing things like that.
I think "high end" is over unless you're looking for status symbols. especially with AMD leaving that market entirely because there's no profit in it. It's the realm of supercars now. It actually costs that much to make it but nobody should ever actually buy it.
Vr "needs"it still but if not pushing high end vr NOBODY needs that card. at all.
@HonestHick also sale prices.... Yep sign on the economy... Retailers starting to get it that prices NEED to get lower. Even if push square "luxury" "bUt InFlAtIoN" people don't.
Quality over quantity. You're outlook might be different to mine? You're also comparing high end gear to mid range conslow, i mean console.
@torquex Again, a high end graphics card is not more expensive because it contains more expensive materials. It's mostly more expensive because it's more powerful and people are willing to pay for that.
That being said, with the graphics card that cost like 3 PS5 Pro's you can't really do any gaming, unless you also buy the rest of the computer.
Don't forget to buy a blueray drive for your new expensive computer build! it seems like something people really forget a lot given how poorly blue-ray drives are selling these days. But apparently it's extremely important as people scream that they won't by a PS5 pro unless it comes with a Blu-ray drive...
So what is a gaming console? It's a gaming computer basically.
If you are ok buying a gaming PC without Blue-ray drive for way more than the PS5 Pro, how can you then criticise the PS5 Pro for not having a blue-ray drive while being less expensive and still being able to outperform some of those gaming computers?
Because you CANNOT get a PC that outperforms the PS5 Pro in terms of gaming at the price of a PS5 Pro. Not yet anyway.
And when you do, then it probably doesn't come with a blue-ray drive.
To say that the PS5 and PS5 Pro is of low quality is also incorrect.
The PS5 has quite high quality and well considered cooling and build. The plastic used is of high quality with a lot of attention to detail.
I really don't get your argument.
You actually get a lot of machine for the money with a PS5 Pro.
Is it expensive? Yes
Is the cost justified? Yes (because getting that kind of gaming performance and hardware anywhere else would be more expensive)
The materials used is not important.
The RTX4090 has the pretty much the same materials used as the PS5, but less materials.. Yet it's way more expensive..
And you can't do sh*t with an RTX4090 without buying a lot of other things as well.
So complaining that the PS5 Pro don't come with a Blue-Ray drive and that it's too expensive is childish.
The price is justified, but perhaps more than you are willing to pay for a home console connected to the TV.
Perhaps you are upset that it's not the same price ass the PS4 Pro, well that's fine I guess but Sony has only made one other "Pro" system so it's not like you can say that this pricing breaks "tradition". Plus.. it was a different time and different economy back then, keep that in mind.
Hey mister no need with the insults. Just as a reminder, opinions are ok are they not? again you are comparing the definitive platform with mid range console gaming systems, also it is my opinion that the gaming console sytems are ok but too expensive for what they are. Gaming Consoles should be cheap systems not £700 cheap, lol.
And i never mentioned anything about the disc drive exclusion?
Sony are greedy gits just like nvidia boss
@torquex It's not an insult, it's a fact.
If you feel insulted as an adult about that, then you prove my point.
In some cases there's really no discussing opinions.
Would you discuss whether earth is flat or the moon is made out of cheese? I don't accept "opinions" that are completely ridiculous.
The fact is that in terms of gaming performance, the PS5 Pro gives you bang for your buck. You cannot get better gaming performance for that price.
Hmm, you say that it's too expensive for what it is.
I don't quite understand, there is the regular PS5 for you to buy, which is a more traditional console with a lower price.
The PS5 Pro is not a PS6, it's not the successor of the PS5.
The PS5 Pro is a premium console for the enthusiasts, it can be however expensive Sony wants it to be, it's not targeting the masses, it's targeting the people who are willing to pay extra for the performance. And people who already have large TV's with HDR, VRR and 120ghz.
It's ok if you don't wanna buy it, that means that you are not the target audience. Not the end of the world, you can still enjoy all the games on the regular PS5.
It's just your opinion not a matter of fact, the ps5 pro is too expensive it's a rip off and that's my opinion, Comparing the RTX 4090 with ps5 pro or even the ps6 is pointless because the hardware and engineering support is on a different scale than a console gaming systems. I game on the ps5 it cost me £380 in a sale nearly a year ago, it's ok nothing special and i would rather have payed less, lets face it who wouldn't want to pay less? if you don't then you're stupid. PS5 Pro at £700 is a rip off.
I never said you couldn't i said the pro is a rip off.
In your opinion, get real.
@torquex How is it a rip off if it delivers the best graphics performance for the price?
The price is justified in this case. You cannot call it a rip off just because it's over your budget.
You have to look at it objectively, what do you get for the money and how are other products delivering a similar experience priced.
This is not my subjective opinion. The fact is that the PS5 Pro is priced pretty well for the performance it delivers. So it's really not a rip off.
A rip off would be if it's more expensive than it should have to be. Apples storage upgrades for example are a rip off.
Especially since you can get away with less of the super fast internal storage and instead using pretty fast external storage.
Most people would be totally fine with that.
And other competition offers much more affordable options.
That's a rip off.
With the PS5 Pro you can't make this argument. And that is not an opinion, that is fact. At least for now
In a year or two you will probably be able to make the argument that the PS5 Pro is a rip off as new products are released that can do what the PS5 Pro does for the same price or less.
But for now you can't make that argument.
Now stop talking about opinions, this is not about opinions..
Yeah I can and yeah it is. I wouldn't stop anyone buying one and I'm looking forward to the teardowns and general reviews but it's still expensive and I live in rip-off Britain.
have a nice day and if you buy one enjoy.
In your own opinion, lol we can do this all day but let sleeping dogs lie cos it can get a bit woof.
Enjoy your day and I look forward to your review and any pics or videos if you buy one that is.
Take care
@torquex It surprises me that you don't know what "rip off" means even though you are a native English speaker.
Otherwise, perhaps you could explain how this is a "rip off"..
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/rip-off
By "charging too much", they don't mean that the price is over your personal budget.
They mean that the price is higher than it should have to be. That you are overpaying, that you are being cheated..
I could be ripped off buying a hamburger even if I could afford 200 of them. If the hamburger is of the same quality as the competitors hamburgers but three times as expensive. then you can call it a "rip off". It's a price that you can't justify.
It's not so much about whether or not you have enough money to buy it.
So since the PS5 Pro IS fairly prices for what you get, it simply cannot be considered a "rip off".
Is it expensive? Sure! I never said it wasn't expensive.. But it's not a "rip off".
You are not being cheated into paying too much.
But I would be happy to hear your counter argument if you have any.
But saying "Yeah I can and yeah it is.", "that's your opinion" or "my opinion is" can't be considered proper arguments.
They are just baseless statements without factual weight.
Have a great day
I'm on low income of course most tech items like this are expensive, they are a rip-off to me, I don't care what you think, who are you?
Not here to argue all day over some bits of plastic/metals/silicon, lol £700, get lost chump.
@torquex Again, rip-off does not mean expensive.
That is not the actual meaning of the word.
Who am I? That is not important for this discussion.
Just some old stubborn dude on the internet, that's all you need to know
Dictionary = "To cheat or swindle, especially by charging an excessively high or unfair price"
That's exactly what I think, hence rip-off for what it is, meh.
You want to buy one? go ahead I'm not stopping anyone lol, I'll wait as long as I really want to and maybe, maybe I'll get one in a sale in the future sometime? also, for me personally there are no interesting games to play, most are crap that I wouldn't pay a tenner for, again, I'll wait for a sale. £700 lol, what a rip-off.
@torquex you are not per default being cheated, or paying excessive/unfairly high price, just because it's expensive.
Again, the PS5 Pro IS fairly priced, one might even argue that it's a generous offer, because it's the cheapest way to get that kind of gaming performance.
So yes, it's expensive, but you are not being cheated or swindled to pay more than what the hardware is worth.
It's an expensive machine that is worth the money.
the pricing makes sense..
And I am not saying that as a fanboy, it's an objective observation.
I would like to buy it, but I have other priorities, engagement coming up and a trip abroad so I will put my purchase on ice for now, and depending on my situation and so on, I might wait to see what the Switch 2 can do. That might be an even better purchase for me since I will start to travel more and spend less time at home.
But just because I can't afford it right now or have other priorities in my life it doesn't mean that the product is a rip-off.
It's not an unfair price. It's just expensive
It looks like many are ok paying that price, but I'm not and never ever will be. Don't take me too seriously I always call expensive items a rip-off. Last November I purchased a PS5 (CFI-1216A) in a sale for £380 and I would rather have paid £300 because that's what I think it's worth but that's me, £380 is a rip-off lol.
Enjoy your day
Well, the fact is I think it's too expensive for what it is, and depending on the game they are still capping some at 30 fps, that's just so funny to me and all because they want the ray tracing tech that lowers the performance, wait what? meh but whatever I suppose, I would rather spend more money and go PC for better performance with regards to frame rates, refresh rates, free multiplayer and in some cases cheaper games. I have seen some PS5 games nearly £70 on their digital store front that I think is a rip-off, that's my objective reply with a large portion of my personal opinion/s.
@torquex
So ok I can see how you get annoyed with some of the points that you have pointed out. However this is more an issue with developers not doing a proper job updating their games for the PS5 Pro. We have some examples of games that do benefit quite a bit from being PS5 Pro enhanced. Final Fantasy VII Rebirth comes to mind.
This is not the best way to judge if the hardware is worth the money because it has just been released and developers are still figuring out how to make the most of it.
The only way to objectively judge wether the hardware is overpriced or not is to look at the specifications of the system and compare it with other systems of similar hardware specification and then ask the question, How is it priced compared to these systems?
It's ok if you say: "I don't wan't to spend that much money on a gaming system", "it's too expensive for me" or "I have other priorities".
I only react when you say that it's overpriced or a "rip-off" because that just isn't the case.
It's like if you would say that a gold wedding band with diamonds is a rip-off despite being the least expensive Gond and diamond wedding band on the market.
Sure there will be cheaper wedding bands if you can live without pure gold and diamond and that's totally fine for a lot of people.
But for those that are looking specifically for gold and diamond it's actually a great deal even though it might take them quite a while to save up money for it.
It's the same when you start talking about bespoke hardware fore raytracing and deep learning hardware for upscaling and such things. These things are still expensive. If you don't care for that stuff then you don't need to buy them.
But that doesn't mean that it's overpriced or that you are being ripped off..
@DaniPooo
Hi friend hope you are doing well.
I can definitely live without, its ugly metals/gemstones most of the time if I'm honest, it does not appeal to me personally, but I can see the appeal with its investment relating to the monetary value. To me the PS5/Pro is not the same.
Not going to change my viewpoint nor opinion but for anyone else just enjoy.
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