Earlier this week, EA CEO Andrew Wilson set the internet ablaze with comments suggesting that Dragon Age: The Veilguard would have performed better if it had live service elements.
Plenty of people have fired back against such a notion, but few have done so with the clarity of lead Dragon Age: Origins writer David Gaider.
Posting on social media, Gaider says that while he can "kinda see the thinking" behind Wilson's take — with company bigwigs typically looking at the profit margins of live service titles and concluding that everything should follow suit — there's still more than enough room for beloved properties, like Dragon Age, to do what they do best.
"There are certainly all sorts of lessons a company could learn from a game like Veilguard (I still haven't played it, so I'm going off what other people have said), but "maybe it should have been live service" being the takeaway seems a bit short-sighted and self-serving," Gaider writes.
He continues: "My advice to EA (not that they care): you have an IP that a lot of people love. Deeply. At its height, it sold well enough to make you happy, right?"
Indeed, it's clear that The Veilguard failed to meet its publisher's expectations. A report from the EA itself claimed that the action RPG had "engaged" 1.5 million players — and so it's strongly assumed that its actual sales figures are fairly low.
"Look at what [the property] did best at the point where it sold the most. Follow Larian's lead and double down on that. The audience is still there. And waiting," Gaider concludes. And quite frankly, we couldn't agree more.
Obviously, there's a larger conversation to be had here with regards to why The Veilguard underperformed. From its deeply troubled and lengthy development cycle to bad first impressions and a choice of tone that never seemed to click for many fans, we could sit here all day and debate the perceived fall of such a popular franchise.
But right now, it's just nice to see someone as respected as Gaider — who played a major role in establishing Dragon Age's lore and setting, while also penning some of its best characters — jump in with such a rational response.
What do you make of this whole saga? Imagine a timeline where Dragon Age gets the Baldur's Gate 3 treatment in the comments section below.
[source bsky.app]
Comments 28
Totally agree with him, but EA will use this as an excuse to make ME live service, then kill what’s left of BioWare when it fails. And again, that out of touch idiot must not see the high amount of live service failures recently.
"with company bigwigs typically looking at the profit margins of live service titles and concluding that everything should follow suit"
The actual problem is CEOs don't even look at the real numbers. They look at the profit margins for the 3 or 4 live service titles that are very successful. They seem to completely ignore the wasteland of failed live service titles. Some of which die in less than a month.
Veilguard was fine , was it dragon age ,no it wasn't, but as an action rpg I enjoyed it very much, they tried to appeal to a minority, and the majority didn't like that ,so they didn't buy it , lessons should be learned if they want to make money.
Recent picked up Veilguard and I'm quite enjoying it!
I'd played the game previously on my cousin's account. Then, I bought it last week using PS Stars money (It was on sale). It's a great game! It's fun and engaging. Maybe that's all it needs to be? I dunno...
Should have made it Dragon Age and it might have sold like Dragon Age
Yep and no doubt this guys remarks will be proven true whenever the Witcher 4 comes out!
It’s almost like they didn’t see the absolute disaster that was suicide squad. Dragon age origins is one of my favourite games of all time. Incredible story, fantastic characters, interesting world. It’s not difficult to keep to that formula. Veilguard was a totally different experience with the dragon age name slapped on it. That’s why it hasn’t been as successful as ea hoped. Not because it wasn’t live service. No one wants that.
I'm curious as to what the live service vision for this title would have been.
It wouldn't have been a TESO/FF MMORPG, that's for sure.
I'm assuming more of a Suicide Squad or Division type of experience?
Well the former is a no-no.
Could I see myself playing a fantasy RPG that worked a bit like Division? Yeah I think I could.
Not with the bizarre tone of Veilguard though with that childish Marvel-esque dialogue and the forced politics.
If they'd taken it seriously and been authentic and gritty, then I think that would have worked for me.
@Ultimapunch "They look at the profit margins for the 3 or 4 live service titles that are very successful."
I think you need to take this a step further - they almost treat "live service" as if that is a genre itself, not paying attention to the genre of game they're trying to apply "live service" to, and the genre that the most successful live service games actually fall in to.
If CEOs think a live-service racer or live-service RPG will pull in the profits of live-service battle royales like Fortnite and Apex, I'd question whether those CEOs should actually be CEOs in the first place.
@AhmadSumadi @SuperSilverback
Is it a dragon age game - I dont know - 1 & 2 didnt interest me for whatever reason, and DAI was OK.
But it is a great game that should have sold far more if not for widespread erroneous and nasty criticism that had nothing to do with the game whatsoever.
Glad you are enjoying it - if more people gave it a real go, im sure they would have more fun.
Pfft, we were told by every outlet that this game was a return to form for BioWare. Obviously a person who worked on the original game has no idea what they’re talking about!
Bioware is dead
Putting the bar at baldurs gate 3 is what killed veilguard sales.
EA shipped a complete, polished single player game without micro transactions and people couldn't value that.
Of course EA will turn back to live services. People have literally told them that with their wallets.
A Larian like aproach of 6 years of development is not on the table.
This was a shot on the foot for fans. Had veilguard made expectations, feedback could have been taken into account for the next game. Now, there is no more devs and no more dragon age.
And this is why the next Hogwarts legacy game will be live service ....
@Rich33 DAO is a great game! Inquisition is a masterpiece. But DA2. DA2! Is the farthest I’ve ever seen a game be from its predecessor in terms of quality. It’s so bad that I hated even seeing Hawk in Inquisition lol.
I completely agree with him. He has gone on to a rhythm game and Eternal Strand switch so many Dragon Age terms in it.
But point stands did the big wigs forget about game of the year Inquisition and sales for that or orher entries. Idiots.
As if Baulders Gate 3 did or didn't steal it's thunder, as if other games of the month didn't make Veilguard have a challenge to sellz as if backlogs or other factors/other money towards other games.
Fans were put off that did or didn't buy it too. Very few 1.5+ million dedicated or newcomers bought it. Try and push in directions people actually wanted.
They have a short sighted/don't look back mentality and need to look back/pay attention to fans and the correct Devs or people with a better idea.
As if live service Dragon Age would sell it'd put people off even more and sell worse like Anthem. Do they learn or listen to their own dumb thoughts or think, 'we know things, I see it now' to themselves. XD
Just because EA doesn't have a wide enough mind to open compared to other games, their Indies or past non live service titles then looking at the live services pie chart and have their heads in the clouds.
I don't want to heard anything from the people that write dragon age veilguard, that game should have been live service games without story 😂
@Rich33 the reveal trailer did put me off to be fair, thought it was toon cartoon or something. But the actual game is not like that. It's alot more action based combat than the rest, but if feels very Dragon Age in every other way to me atleast. Go to location, get a new ally, do a load of quests. Some stunning areas to. Still think DA1 is the best in the series, but enjoying Veilguard alot more than I thought I would
Maybe one day they realise "modern audience" direction was source of failure...
ZeroSum wrote:
Errr... looks at Genshin Impact a live service RPG that made it's parent company more profit in it's first year than all of PlayStation.
Not to mention World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XIV, Honkai Star Rail, Path of Exile, Wuthering Waves, Zenless Zone Zero and dozens of others. There are MANY super-successful live service RPGs of different flavours that bring in insane amounts of cash. That doesn't mean I want Dragon Age to be a live service, but it could be.
Bioware really is dead now.
Some of EA's general belief logic is getting so far fetched it is literally bordering in fever dream territory.
I genuinely loathe live service titles and the monetization that goes with it.
The worrying trend isn't the fact EA has got such a lob on for these types of games because at the end of the day, money talks. It's the seemingly relaxed way a once frowned on tactic to syphon huge profits of cash from players is becoming disturbingly normal.
I agree 10000000000%.
Been playing a trial of veilguard. My issue is that the UI feels worse (and I didn’t enjoy da2 or dai but could get through them) it is trying to be an action rpg but doesn’t nail the ui at all for me. I may eventually get it to add to the “when I am bored pile” as the game is pretty and I wanna see how the story ends but the game play is not fun so far.
The discourse around this game is both insane and inane. And the fault lies on both EA and the hate vultures that call themselves gaming influencers.
Veilguard is gorgeous, it's well polished; the combat - for all the ***** it got for the changes done to it over the course of the various games in the series - is fun and fluid; the story is exciting, the side quests are interesting and help develop the characters, main story or world further; the banter between main characters always makes me stop and listen, snicker, laugh or wonder. It's not perfect and it has some inconsistencies here and there, particularly in interactivity or uneven writing. But overall it's a great story-based, action RPG.
Yes it's no longer a cRPG like early Baldur's Gate or a tactical/action hybrid RPG like Origins, but that's the past, it's not what this game is. It's also not what I still to this day want, which is Dragon Age Origins 2, essentially. But on its own merits, The Veilguard is a good game. And if you didn't get it because you subscribe to the anti-woke stupidity or you just let the hateful discourse pouring out of Twitter, Youtube and other places influence you, then get a ***** spine and try things for yourself. And judge them for yourself. Not under the shadow cast from a influencer that is farming hate and attention for money.
On the crap the EA CEO said... Well, it's EA. They're basic bitches that have always gone for whatever makes them big bucks, and that involves properties that appeal to the masses.
BioWare and EA are not a good match. They have never been. BioWare is responsible for what it creates, but the malignant influence EA has exerted on them since the purchase has compounded BioWare's troubles immensely.
BioWare would do better in the hands of a publisher with less money but more tact and insight. Less greed but more taste. EA would rather kill the studio for good and keep the IP than ever sell it, as that's what they do. But they are not a good match and what we have witnessed over the years is the result of a greedy, big numbers and big bucks obsessed corporation pushing a studio that was intelligent and creative to create products that are not right for them. And suffer for it.
This will not end well. Not unless somehow BioWare manages to convince EA to sell it to a publisher that cares.
For me, the issue was simply how connected these games all seem to be. Sure, some people love that, but relying on players (and many potential players who may never have played a prior game) to remember or makeup choices from 10ish years ago is just dumb to me. If you won't make games in a timely manner, then don't make them all so deeply connected. Just tell a new story with new characters in the same world.
I only played DAI. I thought it was okay, at best. I remember being so pissed that archers couldn't aim and shoot like a TPS that I ended up playing the entire game as companions who I liked controlling better. That's it. That's what I remember. That and the elf dude ended up evil? Or something.
I'm not so deeply into the lore and characters that I can recall a single damn thing about the story or the world (other than it being very empty). The window of when I'd conceivably give a ***** simply closed.
Then, nothing the game offered in previews and trailers looked like the sort of game I'd expect for the series. Simple as.
@Cornpop76 What forced politics were in the game?
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