@Ravix Dallas definitely has a tendency to take their foot off the accelerator and get lazy. They are better than they used to be, but still slip up like the prior version of the Celtics. They did sustain the best record in the league over the final 20 game stretch of the season, and have mostly stayed focused the first three rounds. (They tend to lose game 1 for some reason). But the fatigue thing (mental and physical) is real. Luka mentioned it again last night after the game and has several times through the post season about the grueling nature of playing so many games.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Malaise I haven’t followed it as close but it does seem to mirror what’s going on in the NBA. Oilers are the ‘little team that could’ who clawed their way through the early rounds and ended up against a Florida team who had mostly dominated and then just got overwhelmed. Hockey is a little less predictable, so I think Edmonton has a better chance of a comeback
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution that's what I was going to ask. What did you make of the "porzingis can play under certain special circumstances" deal?
To me, just looking at it, I took that to mean, he isn't cleared to play, but if Boston were up big he could trot out at the end to be involved and maybe shoot a few shots in garbage time 😅 which to me fit in to the dangerous mindset of "we might win tonight"
Don't know if it will be the same again today. But like we both said, it's going to be an interesting game psychologically on all sides.
@Ravix Yes, that was my thoughts exactly — KP isn’t necessarily ready to go, but if there’s some chance that he can participate in a blow out victory, or maybe a scenario where it’s really close and they need some crucial rim protection or floor spacing, then they and he might sacrifice his bodily integrity for the win. I have no idea how dangerous his tear and dislocation is and whether he could permanently disable himself, but it might be worth it to him to ruin his future career for a championship. There’s never any guarantees at this stage.
Honestly, I think Lively did the same — I’m not sure if you saw it but I think it was game 3 at Minnesota where Towns’s knee smacked him in the back of his head so hard that he could barely stand up even 15 minutes later and wobbled to the locker room clearly dazed. There’s no way he didn’t have at least a mild concussion. But he only took one game off and they trotted him back out there in game 5. He hasn’t quite looked as dominant since then, until finally that most recent game where the old Lively seemed to be back. Not to mention Luka has had blood on his uniform in almost every game this post season, often bleeding through that left knee. He’s had some bad looking injuries that I have no doubt he would have taken many games off if these were regular season games, but he continues to play 40+ minutes every night (well… when he doesn’t foul out 😅) and is getting pain shots into his ribs between games. Definitely Porzingis wants to play so he can say he actually won himself a championship, but his injury doesn’t sound to me like something that can be played through - if the area of the ankle is torn that keeps the tendon in place, any bit of torque on it will just dislocate it again, I would guess. But if he can hobble through without having to put and lateral or rotational strain on the area then he can probably function. So no quick lateral movement. But when you’re 7’ 3” with that long of a reach, you don’t have to move much to affect someone’s shot.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution in terms of rim protection I'm a little bit annoyed we haven't trusted Kornet a little bit more. Tillman does okay with backing up and moving his feet, but Kornet has been quite an inspirational figure throughout the season, nothing super special, but his personality really works well to calm everyone else down at times, especially when out there with Pritchard or Hauser, and he can make some blocks and offensively he is a lob threat/pressure relief.
I know in playoffs minutes change and players get sacrificed, but when something has worked all season long in various games, and then you just ignore it, it can be a bit disheartening. Obviously Luka would smoke him, and we play a switching one on one defence, but at times I want to see a few possessions of Kornet, especially now lively is looking good.
I didn't see the incident you mentioned, never get to see much west coast basketball, but Lively has impressed me in terms of attitude and desire and has stood out as a real difference maker for Dallas. As well as being called Dereck, and having a slightly similar look about him... he strikes me as their Derrick White, in terms of if he plays well it covers a lot of mistakes and makes your winning margin go up. One of those players you just want in your team regardless of position as you will just win more when he is there.
@Ravix Yes, the +/- when Lively is on the floor with Luka is really high. He should be a starter, but as a rookie coming off the bench, he fills his role well. He’s key to the Mavs future too, since he’ll be chasing around Holgren at OKC, and Wemby at San Antonio for many years to come. It was interesting to see him hit that one three pointer the other night, since he doesn’t shoot those but if he can develop a decent 3 pt shot then his value skyrockets.
Maybe we’ll see some Kornet tonight. Tillman actually had a decent game 3, but it would be good (for Boston) to see some more bench production. Teams tend to shorten their benches for playoffs, but Mazzulla basically limits it to eight deep except for the last game when everyone got garbage time minutes on both sides. Starters should be nice a rested for this game though. JT and JB only played about 27 minutes each.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
A dominating performance by Boston. Congrats to them. I think unquestionably the better team overall. Dallas played quite poorly, but credit to the exceptional play of the Celtics. Now on to the Summer Olympics!
Oh, and here’s pulling for Edmonton!
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution indeed 😁 and Luka is going to be having nightmares about Jaylen Brown all off season. Such a well deserved MVP.
That was my favourite part of how they played that game. They forced Dallas to revert to their worst selves and it is so intelligent to do that (plus needing the skill and concentration levels to stick to it all game) "If he [Luka] gives up the ball I'm not letting him get it back, so if he wants it he will have to bring it up himself" I believe was the quote, and the whole game descended into Luka and Kyrie trying to get their own shots and playing slow off the back of it. I hope the media and league took notice, because he has done that all season long testing himself getting ready for moments like that. And that is one of the biggest changes and reasons they got it done this year. It's not often the case in sports where someone gets paid and then decides they need to add a lot more to their game and double their efforts and keep growing as a player.
And also, Derrick White. What more can be said? He basically got curb stomped and didnt even come out of the game, got a block on Lively at the rim, hit some big threes. Just love that guy 😁
Tatum resisting forcing it and getting over ten assists early is definitely a new thing this year too. I'd say that when it was pretty likely they'd win he tried to pad his scoring stats, but he mostly did it in an aggressive way, rather than a jack up three way, although there was still a little bit of that creeping in. As long as he keeps growing, it's all good. And the monkey is off his back now. You could tell it had really affected him, not having won before (even though he is younger than both LeBron and Kobe were for their first I believe?) His reaction was the most Garnett of them all because of it haha. Spent about 2 minutes bent over wailing and blubbing on the bench and didn't know what he was doing. And he even did his own "anything's possible" type reaction later on in the courtside interview 😅
I still haven't got used to the whole procedure in American sports where the owners get the trophy first though. It kind of kills all celebrations, and isn't something we get in European sports. I've seen it a bunch, and it always seems super awkward and smacks of "we own you all and take your effort for our own rewards hahahahhahahahhaha" but whatever, it is what it is 😁😁
@Ravix Yeah, I’m really impressed with the Celtics (although I stand by my well-documented thoughts about KP) and although I still think they aren’t quite the look of a dynasty, they are going to be in the mix for a while. Unfortunately all those injured stars who didn’t play in the playoffs — Giannis will be back, Halliburton will be back (and getting better as a young player), Embiid will be back and healthier, Randle will be back to help Brunson, Mitchell will be back, Butler will be back (but apparently a 76er, maybe?), …man, the East was a bloodbath of injuries this year. That’s the #1 or #2 guy on most of the playoff teams. Not saying Boston couldn’t have beat those teams fully loaded with their stars, but the gap is definitely narrower than it appeared this year in the East.
In the West, Dallas also got lucky with Kawhi Leonard only playing half the series. The only other major injury I recall in the West was Zion. Both those guys are the Kristops Porzingises of their respective teams and seem to always be injured. But Dallas also has to contend with an improving Ant Edwards (he’s barely gone through puberty and he’s already dominant 😂) and that really young OKC core. And Denver’s not going anywhere so long as Jokic is around. Mavs getting back to the Finals again is highly unlikely unless they add better 3-pt shooting and their defense a little more.
As for Boston, they have a couple key decisions. Tatum just won himself a huge contract, reportedly it may be the biggest contract in the history of the league. Brown’s contract is already huge and is the highest in guaranteed money in the entire NBA. He and Holiday are already both in the top 25 most expensive contracts in the league, so add Tatum now this offseason and you simply can’t pay everyone. You’ll probably eventually lose White and Houser (I can’t believe how little that guy is paid) and Horford to age, but it looks like all three of those guys have one more year on contract.
As for Dallas, they will probably renegotiating Luka I think I read, but he’s got still 4 yrs on contract. Jones Jr is going to have to be resigned, and Hardy will need to be locked down as the heir-apparent to Kyrie. Otherwise, they need to hit the market for a more solid #3
Edit: oh yeah, about the owners getting to accept the trophy — I agree it’s really awkward. They often don’t look like they even know what’s going on. 😅 They’re business people and shouldn’t really be there during that emotional moment.
Been an interesting road here but looks like we’re gonna have a heck of a game tonight. Neither the Oilers or Panthers are going to go quietly. I’m no Oilers fan but at this point I’d like to see them take it. Should be a good one!!
“Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.” C.S. Lewis
@Jimmer-jammer It ended up being a good game but just a gut wrenching outcome for the Oilers who had clawed back from 0-3. I don’t know what’s worse - getting swept in 4 games or losing by smallest of margins in 7 games.
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Malaise Three of the last five Cups going to the sunny shores of Florida! The irony. And last year to the dry and blistering desert of Las Vegas. 😂 Our poor Canadian neighbors up there who grow up on the ice and snow can’t catch a break. We don’t even play hockey down here, and certainly not in the hot South and desert basin West. 😆
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Ravix As a follow up to previous discussion —
NBA free agency period has been pretty crazy. But sure enough, the Celtics inked a new contract extension with your boy Tatum to the largest contract in NBA history, eclipsing the current largest contract, Jaylen Brown’s 😅. Tatum’s new deal is 5 year, $314 million. So the two richest contracts in NBA history (by total value) now belong to the current Celtics team. 🤯
And they still found a way to extend Derrick White. Amazing. And then the owner put the team up for sale… 😂
Mavericks have picked up (an admittedly old and declining) Klay Thompson, so that’s interesting.
The major signing that I’ll be curious to follow though is Paul George to the 76ers to now join Maxey and Embiid for a ‘big 3’ over in Philly. Early thoughts would be that makes for a possible challenger in the East, to go along with Milwaukee and NYC (when healthy).
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
@Th3solution I honestly haven't kept up with much NBA news, other than the two celtics contracts that popped up on my phone feed, which we knew were happening anyway. One minus for living in the UK is this kind of thing doesn't make regular news or sports broadcasts, so, if I'm not actively watching on league pass, I barely hear anything from stateside 😅
I'd have to look up the ownership stuff, but I suppose it makes sense to do it when there is most value haha.
As for other teams, I knew of the PG move, but mostly because they basically let it slip during that broadcast he was on in the finals, so I'm not surprised 😅 would you say PG is ball dominant or not right now or a good fit for playing with Embiid and Maxey? I don't think i've seen him play much to be brutally honest. To me, Philly just have to give Maxey the green light, as he is a special talent and genuinely exciting to watch so I hope they are a good fit for entertainment value. Celtics got banner 18, I just want to see really big matches from now on, and Celtics x 76ers is just fun to watch
Oh, I did hear of all the Lakers stuff. Do you think JJ Redick and Bronny x LeBron is good, or is it some crazy LA side-show kind of stuff?
@Ravix I’ve seen some of George’s play over the last couple years, and I find him to be an unselfish player who can be ball dominant when he needs to be, but isn’t really an ‘alpha’. He’s probably lot better than people realize, and has overcome some of his reputation of choking in the playoffs. I think he’ll be a good fit for Maxey and Embiid. He played to some success next to Kawhi and Harden, who are both ball-dominant, even though I’d argue that (depending on Kawhi’s fragile health status) he was the most talented guy on the floor. He actually reminds me a lot of Tatum, actually. Similar skill set and demeanor.
As for Lakers, I really like JJ Reddick as a commentator and he seems to understand the game really well. I have no idea if that will translate into being a good coach but it worked out really well for Steve Kerr, Rick Carlisle, and others who have made the transition from the TV booth to coaching. As for Bronny and Lebron, … ugh, I think it’s a really weird situation. Seems to be more of a novelty than anything. I haven’t watched Bronny play, and I think he’s probably several years away from being worthy of significant minutes. The issue is that now it becomes a strange power dynamic and Bronny will probably get playing time he doesn’t deserve because it’s a circus side show people are going to tune in for to see the ‘father and son’ duo on the court. Not to mention that just in general mega-stars’ sons often disappoint and are rarely as good as their fathers, for whatever reason. Of course, the jury is still out on that with Anthony Edwards, depending if you believe him to be Michael Jordan’s son or not. 😅
“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
Next season is going to be strange. I’m a massive Dallas Mavericks fan and I think the pickup of Klay Thompson is great. I’m bummed that we got rid of Josh Green and Derrick Jones Jr — two great defenders — but we will see how it unfolds. Our starting lineup looks dangerous next year, but it’s the bench I’m concerned about, unless Klay comes off the bench as the 6th man.
I also think Chris Paul going to the Spurs is a low key incredible move. While CP is in the final stages of his career, he will be a great mentor/leader for Wemby. In fact, I think that changes the dynamic of the entire team, so much so I can see them possibly making it to the play-in’s.
@Kraven but the problem still remains. Luka can be tricked into playing greedy, slow basketball and be disconnected from the team on defense. Do you think that will ever change, or will it be a matter of winning in spite of that, because of his pure talent? How great were Dallas when he was connected in game 4? It baffles me that he doesn't want that to be the standard, because he can clearly do it.
The one truly good thing Boston did this year was deciding in pre season the only thing that matters is winning, and the only way to win is as a team, and to not think of the offense and defense as seperate phases at all, so everyone will have to sacrifice an element of their game to achieve this. And they did that from day one through to game 5 of the finals. With a few minor hiccups along the way where they needed a slap to get back on track to doing that. And all that under a microscope where it felt like everyone legitimately thought they had to win every single game or it was a failure. That was the weird part of the pressure from the media and fans.
Apart from Tatum looking a bit sulky at times everyone pulled together in every moment that mattered, and when he wasn't being sulky he improved two major parts of his game, strength for driving in the paint and playmaking.
But Jaylen Brown is the one Luka needs to learn from. He went from absolute villain (for no real reason other than he used to sometimes dribble up a corridor and get stripped or lose the ball, and because he volunteered for the dunk contest because no one else in the league would bother) to conference finals MVP and Finals MVP for the work he put in all season because he decided "this year I'm going to make all defense" an achievement he legitimately should have made too.
Do you think Luka has that dog in him? Because that would be insane to see if he decides to put in the work on that element of his game. It could be game changing for the entire sport if he did that too. Because the league is getting a little bit softy softy if you ask me, where people love players like Tre Young and aspire to be sh** on defense 😅😅😅
@Th3solution@Malaise As a born and bred Flames fan, it’s not in my DNA to root for the Oilers, and even I was hoping for an Oilers win! To claw their way out of such a hole, it’s hard not to appreciate such heart. That said, I was more than happy to see Tkachuk and Bennett lift the cup. Gut wrenching indeed for the Oilers but at least McDavid left with the Conn Smythe, much deserved. Ultimately, it was some excellent hockey, which is what we’re all there for.
“Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.” C.S. Lewis
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