The tech heads at Digital Foundry have gathered to discuss Sony's PS5 Pro reveal, and the conversation is a level-headed one considering various facets of the upcoming console. It's well worth a watch, and we've embedded it above. Perhaps most interesting is their view on the PS5 Pro's premium cost; while many (including us) have been shocked by the $700 MSRP, Digital Foundry reasons that, like it or not, the price tag is about in step with where consumer electronics are heading.
Though the price has gone down "like a cup of cold sick", as Richard Leadbetter so eloquently puts it, he and John Linneman say it's the ever-increasing costs of making high-end devices pushing the console's price up. "Consumer electronics are going up in price generally," Leadbetter says, adding that "flagship [smartphones] are $1,000 upwards typically" and so Sony "probably will find an audience for this".
Building on this point, Linneman says that the relatively flat sticker price of consoles over the years, despite steadily increasing production costs, is partly to blame for the widespread shock around PS5 Pro. "People generally expect [consoles] to sit within a fairly narrow price window," he says, adding that this crept up as HD consoles came in, but that expectation is clashing with the rising manufacturing costs in the electronics space. "Electronics in general are becoming extremely expensive," he says, using phones and graphics cards as examples, and alluding to comments from Microsoft about how costly making consoles is getting. "It all makes sense why the [PS5 Pro] price is so high, it's just that, in this space, it's sort of stayed within a certain price ceiling," Linneman says.
While that's all very reasonable, the group still feels the price is coming in too high. Leadbetter says it's "pushing the limits for sure", and reasons that, if PS5 is "breaking even at $500", he doesn't see "$200 of additional [production] costs [for PS5 Pro]" based on what we've been shown so far.
Again, it's worth watching the whole breakdown video, in which they discuss the presentation itself, PS5 Pro's "big three" features, the disc drive being sold separately, and plenty more.
What are your thoughts on Digital Foundry's comments? Is PS5 Pro's price point justified by increasingly expensive manufacturing and production, and wider trends in electronics? Discuss in the comments section below.
[source youtube.com]
Comments 118
Pure greed it is then 😥
The price is on the cheap side considering all the benefits of the new console as it was nicely presented by Mark Cerny yesterday
It is expensive but it makes the base PS5 look a lot more reasonable in comparison. People complain about that too but international logistics and procurement are horrible now.
I genuinely think it would’ve went down a lot better if they just included the disc drive with the bloody thing.
Even £720 albeit a big chunk of cash would’ve felt ever so slightly fairer than a whopping £700 and then demanding that anyone who still wants a “meagre” disc drive to buy the totally optional £100 add on is just a disgrace.
The problem is it will only get worse because we, as gamers demand better graphics and performance and unfortunately that comes at a greater price with less impactfull results as time goes on. We then moan when that hardware and said price is presented to us. Theyve certainly priced me out of this one.
Still think the conversion rate is well off, at most £600-£650 with a disc drive & stand, may have been reasonable.
I think they could have done a couple of options here.
2tb discless £700
1tb with disc drive £700.
May have ‘looked’ a better deal. I was expecting £630-50 with a drive tbh (at 1tb)
I think something that seems to being overlooked is that you would need an expensive TV to get the full benefit of the upgrade. So with me with my few years old 4K Samsung tv without full HDR I would not benefit much from the pro. You need a OLED and full HDR screen and a right size screen and be the right distance away from it to get the full benefit.
All that power and price, still multiplat devs are still going to consider Series S in overall development and just going to give you San Andreas at 4K60 for £700.
@jrt87 consumer electronics are vanity goods. No one is entitled to them. Folks should be worried about food and a roof over their head.
Whether or not the technology justifies the price tag is completely missing the point, exactly the same as it did with the PSVR2. The problem is Sony having the gall to rinse the whales of 700 quid upwards for very little tangible reward, even if that is a fair price for all the extra terryfloops. The whole sorry affair just reeks of arrogance and whatever the noun for being out of touch is.
@bindiana yes I've realised the same thing. I genuinely can't see any benefit from Fidelity mode on my relatively cheap 4K Samsung in most games, in fact fidelity mode tends to be blurrier with the lower frame rate.
So I do doubt it'll do justice to the PS5 Pro.
Will just stick with normal PS5 in performance mode.
I’ve been saying this for years about the console prices. But I’m sure now many more will believe it since FPS Foundry said it. Remember folks electronics are vanity goods. No one is entitled to their hobby. Besides the pro isn’t needed as there is still the base PS5.
@Ooccoo_Jr I mean I see your point of view, but we can't really answer that question until we see how it sells.
There's definitely a debate here about whether they should have even bothered if they can't make something like this for less, but we can't answer that question today.
The price has shocked a lot of people. And it's probably not worth it for most.
But Google is casually selling the fancy new Pixel phones for £1,750 and I don't see any uproar. As the article says, it's probably about the expected price.
If it was £649 with the disc drive, it'd be a pretty decent deal.
I think Sony is missing a trick not offering monthly payments like Xbox do (did?).
@MeatyPlasmaBaws
You have a 20% VAT baked into your 699.
The US price has no taxes included.
@Barryburton97 Yeah I have been casually on the lookout for a cheap OLED but not hugely bothered at the moment unless a good deal comes up. So for me it would have to be an upgrade on the TV first before considering the pro and there is no way I can justify both, its very hard to justify one at the moment!
You could probably make a good case for the price by considering what you're getting, the current cost of components and the fact that they're not really drawing in new customers and thus not subsidising the cost like they usually do.
However, the problem is that, despite all that, it isn't very palatable to the overwhelming majority of customers. To the point where you have to wonder if this entire endeavour is even worth the R&D put into it.
Maybe there is a market segment out there that makes it all worth it for Sony, but it feels like they're also damaging their own brand a little bit in the long run. Or perhaps that's just because we're all part of this bubble that cares about this stuff, while the vast majority of gamers simply doesn't give a toss.
We all now have a hunk of a machine promising 4k/60FPS and now no developer will push for that as they now have a “Pro” version. Essentially locking us all into an empty promise from Sony.
The thing is, only 14% of gamers invested in a PS4 pro. 14%..! And that console sold at the price of the original PS4, with the original model selling at a lower price. I said when Sony raised the price of the PS5, and the accessories, that this was Sony preparing the ground for a super expensive PS5 Pro model, and I was right. However, the real question is, just how many PS5 Pro consoles do Sony expect to sell? Surely they cannot expect to sell in the region of 14% again? I'd be surprised it they actually reached double figures. Sure, the Pro will sell out when it first releases when early adopters buy it in time for Christmas, but after that..? I just cannot see it selling well.
I do have to wonder whether Sony watched the PS5, when it first released, going for over a £1000 on eBay, and thought to themselves, we could have sold the PS5 for much more. Indeed, I think the only reason it did sell for £450 was because Microsoft announced the price of the Series X the week before. Rumours at that time were that Sony were looking to charge up to £600 for the PS5, and the price of the Pro, and the increases to the price of the original PS5, does tend to suggest that maybe those rumours were true.
Three things strike me though, the first is just how much will the PS6 cost?
The second is, for those of us that buy both the Xbox and the PS5, at what point does the combined price mean that really, you may as well get a PC. I mean, it's almost as if that's what the likes of Sony wants.
And then the third is scalpers. Man, I really hope they go in hard on the Pro, only to find that they cannot sell them. That would be some justice then for the way they behaved when the original consoles released...
It's nearly double the price of its current equivalent model whilst using the same CPU, RAM, has a slightly bigger GPU (only marginally bigger than Series X's by the way) and some form of AI chip, oh and a bigger SSD.
Should it cost more than the standard PS5, of course but nearly double? Come off it
But on the slight chance they are correct, then the console market is finished as the masses will not pay this much going forward
@Czar_Khastik don’t forget the important part; we didn’t get a multiplier shooter, but we did get a multiplied priced system. Revolutionary.
Well, I was also not happy with the price, but taking time to think about it, it is not bad decission. Why?
We just have an option for better hardware. No guns to the heads. Just an option. (yeah, lack of disk is crazy but Xbox will come out same , you will see).(lack of stand ... pure insanity on all levels)
And also, it will sell. Oh it will sell good. Remember the reactions for Portal? Or the Edge controller? PS4 pro made arround 15% of the ps4 sales and it was a success. You will see same here.
@Barryburton97 I think with phones, you could buy a bleeding edge Google one for £1,750 or you have the choice to buy a Samsung one that does 95% of the same stuff for a third of that.
Here it's proprietary Sony hardware - no clones available. You're right it's a shock with the expected price as the PS4 Pro was what, £400 brand new? For whatever reason, the cost to build a PS5 hasn't dropped (allegedly, but why then the cheaper to make Slim?) so a model with more stuff in it will cost more (bar the disc drive) Consoles are supposed to be throwaway items when the next one comes in but £700 for a barely better than the last Pro is profiteering at its worst.
I'm hoping beyond hope that Nintendo come out with a Switch 2 that starts to level this playing field.
@carlos82 the go faster stripes are worth £200 of anyone’s money!
I wasn't surprised with the price tag. The standard PS5 is still $500 so I figured it had to be at least $600 but with how everything is going $700 isn't that surprising.
That said, it's way too expensive and so I will not be getting one. Just seems like a total waste of money to me.
It makes sense in the fact the PS5 is around the $500 and hasn't dropped in price, in fact actually gone up in some regions since launch, that the PS5 Pro is that expensive.
If they had built it to target $100 more than a PS5, it wouldn't have the 'specs' to make enough of a difference. Therefore they opted to keep it under $700 by removing the disc drive as well. However, the fact that they decided to build to a $700 price point is more the issue when Consoles are traditionally the $300 low cost mass market entry point for gamers and $700 is close to PC pricing. An nvidia RTX4070ti is around that price with DLSS 3.0.
When consoles cost $300, paying $500 just for a PC GPU made consoles seem like the best bang for buck - but now it seems Consoles are becoming more expensive - after all, you are 'expected' to Subscribe on a Console (a minimum of $80 a year) to play online, access all content in games you've paid to play. If you intend to keep playing for 5yrs, that's an additional $400 required too.
Personally i'm getting a Pro because i held off on getting a PS5 because of this, i just hope FFXVI gets a pro patch too
You're right, @Sergo, the Pro will sell, but I cannot see it achieving the 14% of the market that the PS4 Pro achieved. The PS4 Pro sold at the original price that the PS4 sold for upon first release, with the PS4 having been lowered in price. Hear Sony are asking for £300 more than the original PS5.
If the PS5 Pro makes up 10% of the PS5s sold, I'd be surprised. That's still a lot of sales, and money for Sony, but many people that would have traditionally upgraded to the Pro during past generations will now balk at the cost of the PS5 Pro, stick with the standard PS5, and await the PS6 (and hope it's price is not similarly ridiculous)...
@Sergo the issue isn't so much just this PS5 Pro but as much what comes afterwards, you'd have to imagine the PS5 successor costs even more than the Pro does and likely won't use physical media as standard. Leaving consumers locked into whatever Sony wants to charge for games as they don't even sell digital codes outside of their store anymore
The big 3:
1. Costs more than the average monthly salary in 75% of European countries
2. Priced at £699 in the UK which is about 25% more expensive (after US tax) than than the US
version at $699
3. It's for the p(l)ayers and has 3 stripes on each side
Absolutely it makes sense & future consoles will be even more expensive. The PS6 will cost well over £900 basically consoles will cost the same as a high end PC they cost a fortune to make. Maybe stick to your PS4 if you don't want to pay such a high price. Gaming consoles are a high end luxury item after all
There may be all sorts of reasons as to why electronic devices, including the PS5 Pro, have risen in price. That doesn’t change the fact that the average wage in Europe (and especially in Southern Europe, where I live) hasn’t risen enough to a level that may be considered fully aligned with these kinds of prices. It may be different in the US and elsewhere, but that’s how we have it over here.
I’ve been priced out by Sony this time, simple as. I just can’t afford the PS5 Pro; no way, not when I have to pay rent, taxes, and all other sorts if living costs. I don’t live badly, but I know I can’t fork out €800 (mininum, excluding accessories) for a gaming console. €600? Maybe, I’ll think about it … but not €800.
If we are indeed looking at these prices for consoles, then I’ll just have to put up with that - hoping that prices decrease in the future, obviously. But at that point I’d also starting looking at the PC echo system. I might as well, given that consoles seem to be closing the price gap.
I actually cannot believe I would say that, seeing as I’ve gamed my entire life on console only, since the NES in the late 80s. I know PC brings with it a host of other issues (and is certainly not cheap), but I don’t know … I just feel disillusioned with the console gaming industry right now.
This was my reaction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t0Jh3Bae9k&ab_channel=HitlerRantsParodies
@Vaako007 Nobody should have to worry about food and a roof over their heads.
700 + 100 + 100 Unit , Disk Drive , Cover Plate for the disk drive.
1000 and i bet they bring out a few games that only work on the pro i hope they dont.
It may make sense in the abstract. I’m sure there was a thorough analysis done at Sony before pricing.
But consumers are simply not going to buy at this price. They aren’t. So you either wait until PS6 or you recognize that the price has to be lower to get people further attached to your ecosystem.
@nedbvai LOL, right. A 4 year old ps5 not having a price cut, and the Ps5 Pro being almost double the price for a slight improvement sure makes sense. Yeah. Makes sense.
The problem is for some reason people act like video games aren’t a luxury hobby, when they are.
Some of the same complainers will happily by a new phone every year or two despite minimal upgrades.
If the console is too expensive for you, then maybe it isn’t for you.
PS4 Pro wasn’t for everyone, and still sold well. Same will happen for the PS5 Pro.
@Zeke68 Spot on but you forgot about the Top cover bit of plastic to go over the disk drive thats another 100 please.
For how expensive it is, not including the vertical stand is ridiculous.
@Sergo Exactly how I was thinking. I mean it's just an option and it doesn't mean you should get it. I mean Apple Watch Ultra was never for me and I'm just happy with my normal Apple Watch but someone else out there need this Apple Watch Ultra.
@Jacko11 "The problem is for some reason people act like video games aren’t a luxury hobby, when they are.
Some of the same complainers will happily by a new phone every year or two despite minimal upgrades.
If the console is too expensive for you, then maybe it isn’t for you.
PS4 Pro wasn’t for everyone, and still sold well. Same will happen for the PS5 Pro."
You are one of the problems with this situation tbh. The Ps5 Pro will be pretty much twice as expensive as the OGPS5 that included drive and stand. And you defend it, that's the whole issue here. We can't let them get away with it!!
If we do, PS6 will cost 1200€, The PS6 Pro 1500€ and people like you can never complain about it, because you more or less 'greenlit' it if you accept the Ps5 Pro's price!!
This isn't about "affording" as much as pull the reins on Sony and the gaming industry imho.
Edit. And the PS4 Pro had pretty much same releaseprice as OG PS4 so bad example mate.
It also makes sense that I wont buy it at that price.
@sanderson72 yes phones aren't a perfect comparison and there's much more competition in that market.
But then again, you can easily buy a tidy PS4 slim and a pile of games for £200 and have 90%* of the fun of a brand new PS5 Pro.
The new game console market is very price sensitive when compared to most others.
(* Not a scientific study.)
@Luna-Harmony I don't know where you got that information but the detachable drive comes with its cover plate included. The situation is bad enough as it is, no need to make it worse.
@Ainu20 I think it was a joke.
Funny, I remember they made the EXACT same argument at the launch of the PS3. "It's actually a good deal for what you are getting because it has a Blu-ray player."
Yeah a $200,000 Ferrari is probably a good deal for what you get, doesn't mean people can afford it. The PS3 launched at that price and Sony spent the vast majority of that gen catching up to Xbox.
Disk drive, that stupid little vertical stand, full ps1 / 2 and 3 support natively and maybe the outrage of the price wouldn't exist. I'm amazed they didn't opt for some sort of ps3 emulation at the very least.
@Zeke68 I just don't know on here anymore. I thought repeating it two posts in a row was a bit weird.
@Ainu20 I could have misunderstood, but that how I read it. Like, 'Sony will make us pay with blood for 1000's of small addon-costs' kind of statement.
@sanderson72 bleeding edge samsung goes for that price.
700/800 isn't a lot of money for a luxury purchase these days. People still think it's 2004.
@LowDefAl Very well written and balanced post. 👏👏👏
The only thing i'd add is that Sony's investor briefings consistently mention for the next upcoming quarter "Decrease in hardware losses due to lower unit sales" which seems to indicate they are still making a loss on hardware, just less or a loss than before.
@JohntheRaptor Absolutely. Someone was talking to me about "two ninety nine" the other day and how cheap things were (Referencing when PS1 was announced for $299 / £299) but that was almost 30 years ago and with inflation that $299 / $299 is now £595.56 OR $617.61. By inflation standards (which granted is not the same as buying power) the PS5 was cheaper than the PS1, but people forget this.
I would argue against the increase of manufacturing cost.
Raw Material prices in general are not stable, labor usually going up. However, manufacturing itself gets more and more efficient, more automation, leaner processes etc.
If, by any means, the cost go up, it's from my point of view more related to supply and demand.
I think it's a fact, that many more players in the industry are using electronics or electronic components in their products, most prominently the automotive industry.
If 5-10 years ago, the average car had a rather small display with poor SoCs installed, most of the newer cars, especially China EVs, are basically high-end smartphones on wheels. And they are using chips to utilize game engines for their UI or navigation apps (e.g. Mercedes uses unity in their future MBUX).
Even if these players don't use exactly the Playstation hardware, they will anyway use up production capacity.
The effect is the same, hardware can be more expensive. But not due to increased manufacturing cost, more because the producers can ask whatever they want. Nvidia is a real live example.
Just my opinion and personal analysis. No source or data to back it up
@Czar_Khastik What benefits? There is barely any difference between PS5 Pro and performance modes on a standard PS5. Not one that would demand such a high price.
@Zeke68 you’ve genuinely said nothing here.
Gaming is a luxury hobby. That can come with a cost, of which the PS5 Pro does.
Sony rarely sells consoles at a profit. And no doubt they aren’t making any here either or at least very little.
I’m sure if PS6 is £1000 it’ll still sell a ton no doubt.
@Zeke68 Hahaha! I haven't seen a good Hitler Reacts in a while this had me rolling.
@darylb24
The PS5 is already considered a luxury item, the PS5 Pro is even more so. The Pro is most definitely not a product for the masses. It's a niche luxury item for the most dedicated of gamers.
UK imposes a 20% VAT tax and that 699 includes that. That's the UK's doing, not Sony's. The US's 699 includes no tax.
How do so many people not know about VAT, I don't understand it.
Console Timing / Price/ Power will likely be the big conundrum with PS6 - release it too early and it will not be much more powerful than PS5 PRO, or it will be similar power difference to PS4 Pro to PS5 but cost around the same as PS5 Pro - £700.
Cant see it happening for another 4yrs tbh.
@Jacko11
If you think about it, if you want top of the line graphics, tons of storage and easy tv accessibility in a fairly compact design with one of the best controllers on the market included, 700 is not that bad.
In my case, since I already have a PS5 it's hard for me to justify another 700.
Plus if they somehow got it down to 600 it would have cannibalized PS5 sales. I think that's one of the reasons they also opted for 2TB of storage.
Watched the whole DF reaction video earlier - trouble is, as they do keep rightly stating, without full specs its really hard to form a real opinion at the moment.
Sony really needed a 30min livestream to go into more detail, particularly given their target audience.
@AlexPorto it ain't for everyone
@GreatAuk exactly!
Thank you for being one of few who actually understand and make sense of it.
The thing that gets me with this price is some mug will buy it. After a year or two tops, the thing will be worthless & found in CEX when the next big thing arrives. If I'm expected to shell out 700 quid or more I want more than 3 years out of this thing. Sony just don't get it, the console space & consumers are different to the pc crowd.
@Axelay71 100% agree with you, Sony doesn't get it and as you can see, guys like @Jacko11 and @GreatAuk doesn't get it either. This is a console, NOT A PC!!! sigh
@jrt87 If you took that as a humble brag then so be it. I understand that people have disposable income. Hence the success of the west and all of the excess. Plus time for people to complain about vanity goods. All I'm saying is that people need to stop complaining about the prices of things in this hobby industry. People should stick to whatever budget they have and not bemoan that a new console is coming out for gamers that want more powerful hardware the base that was designed 5+ years ago. People are really overreacting to this whole PS5 Pro.
@Westernwolf4 With the way things are tracking. The best Sony games will come out when the PS6 PRO is out. So those that buy a PS5 PRO will get very good use out of it and not feel inclined to get a PS6. Unless Sony is forced to make a really strong base PS6 because the next Xbox is alleged to be a significant leap.
@Rjak agreed mate. Even with the lowest job in any country on, a person should still be able to afford a roof over their head and food.
@Malaise 40 ps5 games at launch with the pro enhanced patches and 8500 ps4 games getting a game boost mode that's a lot to choose from
When this is on a shelf next to the 2TB xbox that has a new paint job ($600), it will seem like a bargain for what you get.
I get what everyone is saying about the price, I really do, but what are you all intending to do with your existing consoles exactly? When I upgraded to the PS4 Pro I sold my PS4, which softened the blow. When I bought a PS5, I sold my PS4 Pro, which made the PS5 more affordable.
Sure, if you're still on the PS3 and skipped last-gen, and were looking forward to the PS5 Pro to give you access to the last two generations of games running as well as they possibly can, I can see why this is a massive investment.
But realistically, if you're going to go for the Pro aren't you going to recoup around 40-60% of the cost of it straight away by selling your current PS5 console on the second-hand market (depending on model, condition, buyer, etc)?
@GreatAuk
People in the US don't know about anything outside the US, generally.
@TheArt
Or series S issues keep devs off xbox since games don't sell there anyway.
@mazzel Nevermind just cars, its the hype for Generative AI which has driven the most recent demand for high-end chipsets.
@TheDaddyOtaku
Actually it seems to me that UK citizens don't even know their own country's tax system. They are the ones talking about unfairness in the cost.
@Zeke68
Consoles have always been PCs, they just happen to be dedicated to gaming. How do you expect to get top of the line graphics in a machine that costs 400 or 500 bucks? The PS5 cost is basically a miracle.
The whole point of the pro is to be the best. Consoles have all the same components inside as PCs do. It's going to be expensive.
@Zeke68 exactly that, for me as a gamer & many I'm sure the appeal of a console is having that great gaming box, devs pushing it to the max. Five or six years of great gaming, affordable hardware. It's been like this since Atari. If Sony want this route make it modular a plug in upgrade mid cycle
Guys, no one is making you buy the pro. I had the PS4 and I didn't buy the PS4 Pro.
I'm 50/50 on the PS5 Pro. But I don't really need it.
@Zeke68 You thought you was that guy with this reply 😂 do you realise how much PC’s cost?
Have you seen the specs inside the PS5 Pro?
You’ve just destroyed your entire argument with that reply. Never play yourself.
@DonJorginho agreed. If they included the disc drive and a stand, it'd still be overpriced, but at least it'd be a LITTLE more reasonable.
Makes you wonder if Sony will backpedal a bit and include the disc drive at no extra cost due to the backlash.
@GreatAuk
LMAO cheers!
@jrt87 Bingo.
I wonder how people will react when Nintendo announces their $500+ console^^
@Fiendish-Beaver Well, maybe but I would bet that it will sell. Everything jump in prices and still sells. Btw, I see reports that the external drives are being soldout at rapid rate. So it seems people are getting ready to buy it. For example in BG, as of today, there are none available
@carlos82 true. But isnt this what all are doing. Netflix and the likes, movies only in their network. Microsoft. Spotify. Everybody wants to give but only in their yard. Yes, I agree this is bad for us and this is why I think we should push for physical.
As for prising. Yeah, with PC parts, TVs etc. And not to mention phone prices where phones come without charger ... Why is sony differnet? Not saying that it is good, just all are doing that *****.
@Khwarezm89 Exactly, should we now lash on Lambo that we can't afford their new Revuelto? Are they bad? No. Did Sony stop PS5 and left only Pro at high price? No. Room for everybody.
PS5 is a loss leader or break even to tempt people into the eco system and make on software. PS pro is a premium item, it won't be tempting anyone into the eco system, so correctly the add a margin probably 20-30%, seems fair to me.
I don't get all p!ssy on the internet because the Xperia 1 IV is £1200 when you can get a basicphone 101 for £79.99 at the local market. The world's gone mad. If you don't see the point in slight improvements for exponentially more cost that's all good, the is product to meet your basic needs. For those that have and want the extra bells and whistles let us have them and pay the price! I'm game!
"$1000 phones"
He's right for the wrong reasons. PHones went up from $400 to $1000 for flagships not because they got that much more expensive, but because of market conditsions where carrier subsidies stopped paying for new phones and the improvement in technology and market saturation slowed down the volume of sales considerably, making a margin increase per sale the next go to step to make up the difference of radically reduced sales. That was because it was a new product class that reached saturation and sales volume nosedived.
If that same reasoning applies here it's an indication that Sony sees the console market saturated and expects a nosedive in sales. Otherwise, the reason doesn't hold.
The other reason is simply Apple flexing their "luxury brand" status and nothing else. A flagship iPhone became a designer product like a Gucci bag. And they priced it as such. You don't pay that much because it's electronics, you pay that much because it's a designer fashion accessory. Then Samsung followed, and holds similar status in the Asian market.
"Electronics in general are becoming expensive"
It's funny we've gone back to the 1980s where electronics are luxuries for the rich in the age of supposedly technology and AI. All things go full circle.
@StrickenBiged completely right, I just choose automotive as a prominent example, but you are absolutely right that many other industries have an increased demand as well!
@NEStalgia you might be on the right track, however, here in China, the market is far away from being saturated. The local Brands unfortunately follow the price trend, with high-end Huawei Phones and Xiaomi phones easily reaching the 1.000$ as well (I'm typing from a 800$ Xiaomi phone right now and it's only the pro version, not ultra...).
I agree with your margin theory, since consumer hardware usually has a low margin and apple was just testing the waters the recent years to see what the customer is willing to pay.
The other players got more confident and followed...
@NEStalgia
The original iPhone wasn't subsided on any carriers and it was $499. It sold like crazy.
@GreatAuk Yeah it's not really about being subsided or not but the phone industry overall had very rapid sales in a new market and the subsidy helped existing sales turn over every 2 years in general.
Prices rose because Apple designer fashion, but also because sales catered and people started keeping them much longer as the tech wasn't evolving much. A phone from 5 years ago and a phone today aren't so different for what anyone but gamers do on it. In that sense high price indicates either awareness of sales drops and stagnation or just the designer apparel charge.
What a load of hoarseshait, tbh. Basically it's "industry guy saying things to justify industry things"
@Jacko11 Speak for yourself, dude. You can't possibly shill for Sony and project on other people that they're wrong for stating that's it's ridiculous.
The PS6 will cost at least this, but i reckon it'll be $700.
People seem to ignore that gaming has actually been getting cheaper vs inflation for the last 2 decades, which isn't sustainable.
My thoughts are that they should've thought more closely on how to keep costs down.
Covid really did a number on this, but at this point it's companies greed and i think the cure is to not buy.
I remember the days when manufacturers took a loss on the console to recoup on game sales. The infinite pursuit of growth will hit a wall. Games already got their prices raised too and we have been changing to digital where physical disc, box and retail have been eliminated
It's just too much damn greed and i am well sick of it.
Uh as if the PS3 versus 360 prices weren't clear as different hardware. But people still had AV TVs then HD TV they upgraded to as well.
As if the Xbox and PS5 aren't clear of hey one has 2TB and is the same. As if the part differences between Switch and Series S besides being mobile and not of parts.
As if PC parts can be looked at.
As if consoles can be at a loss or not for the Pro in this case for the price and what it actually offers. I mean it could be overclocked for all we know, is that worth a price upgrade to overclock the same parts?
The PSSR sure makes sense to for that I guess the effort into it.
There are many reasons they can, have and see how much people will pay, how much parts actually cost which sure makes sense there. It's a niche product and all that too.
@Kidfunkadelic83 they should’ve had the ps5 with pro specs from the start . people are upset about this “mid gen” upgrade bs. people overspending for the same generation - pro or not, it’s still just a ps5
@maybemaybemaybe hard to believe that when the industry standard for mediocre games now is $70
@Jacko11 I never said Pro is a PC? What are you smoking ?!!
This isn't a PC it a console. I didn't 'destroy my argument' in any way kid. Stop moving the goalposts to hope to win your imaginary "chatfight".
You wont win anything with your flawed arguments. Like ever.
Now learn to read and try to understand what you read and you wont make yourself look like a fool online.
@GreatAuk "Consoles have always been PCs" Tell me you started gaming 5 years ago without telling me.
No, you're wrong. I played consoles from 1970's and forward and that had nothing to do with PC's at that time... sigh, the level of education these days are mindblowingly low.
Maybe it’s because I’ve gotten older, but at the end of the day the PS5 Pro is something I don’t need to improve on something I have no problem with for an amount of money I don’t want to pay. I’m not angry Sony is offering this, I think the best thing to do is not buy it, and show Sony that we don’t want or need this. If we buy it they will just continue bloating with pointless tech and charging money above what the average consumer is willing to pay.
I would think the amount of people sticking with their PS4’s would already show this.
@Zeke68 “This is a console, NOT A PC!!! sigh” - literally you bringing up PC.
“do you realise how much PC’s cost?
Have you seen the specs inside the PS5 Pro?” - literally me addressing you bringing up PC clearly suggesting the price shouldn’t be close to the same because its not PC.
Yet PS5 Pro is using PC like components to be more powerful, therefore justifying its price.
It seems it is you sir, who has reading difficulties as well as a clear lack of understanding of how things work in this industry.
@LowDefAl Completely agree. The only frustration for me, as someone pointed out on another thread, was that I THOUGHT this was going to be a product aimed at me - an enthusiast gamer with some disposable income - just as PS4 Pro was.
To find out, at the last moment, it really isn't due to price feels a bit like a bait-and-switch. Even though I KNOW that is rubbish because they hadn't said ANYTHING about PS5 Pro before, many of us were still believing this was for us up till the price reveal. That isn't good marketing.
@Jacko11 This.
While I'm not commenting on price point or even if PS5P is even needed, video gaming has ALWAYS been a luxury hobby. Just take a look at the price of games, ATARI or NES vs the average wage back then.
@Jacko11 And STILL you don't understand what I mean.
A console aint a PC because it uses a few of the same components!!!
PC: PERSONAL Computer - like in you can PERSONALLY choose your own components, Operating System and peripherals.
Console You can't change ***** in it!!! It's a premade, same for ALL closed OPTIMIZED system.
A console should be an easy and much cheaper way to play the games for it's intended lifespan.
But people like you, PC-nerds, are clawing your way into the consolehobby, preaching for more, faster bullocks that has nothing to do with consolegaming in the end. IF Sony wants to do highend consolegaming this is what we should have got with the OG PS5!! Not this nickle and diming the crap out of their most loyal customers (like myself!!)
I play 10 hours a day mon - fri each week, pretty much every week of the year apart from summerholiday and christmas, but I don's want it to be a PC, I know I bought a console and Sony should of course relase hardware - but now they sold us the PS5 and PSVR2 - maybe they should spending that Pro money on actual games for us to buy?!! Crazy idea right?
I played 99% 3rd party this generation and I think it sucks if you consider how little input Sonys own teams have during the first 4 year of PS5s lifetime. It started off fine, died out, and this year they had a fluke with Helldivers 2 and a superb entry with Astro Bot2.
But nothing to really look forward to apart than a PC-priced Pro... That is a bleak future.
But hey, be you and cheer that crap on, I wont!!
@Zeke68 you’ve said nothing again.
I’m not a PC nerd either, I have a gaming laptop that has been used once in 5 years and that was for a week long Sims 4 binge and a failed attempt at installing Battlefront 2 mods.
I’ve been playing consoles since 1996.
It’s you who doesn’t understand and no matter how many times you use bold or capitalised text, your argument is still going to fall through the cracks because it’s uneducated.
You are ignoring all the costs of developing and shipping this machine across greatly varying global markets. With no account for inflation or the fact that gaming is a luxury hobby.
This is not a console for the general consumer, its for people who want more from their console, like they would a PC when upgrading parts.
Honestly calm down, think about what your saying and the “facts” of your argument, and you’ll realise that this conversation has been a wash since your first reply.
@Zeke68
The PS5 is my first system. I am 10 years old. My mommy and daddy got it for me for Christmas. I was so happy.
Let me ask you, if consoles aren't computers then what are they? PC is shorthand for computer. It doesn't have to take the form of a bland gray box about 20 inches tall and 8 inches wide.
Did the Genesis have a motherboard? Did it have a sound chip? Did it have a CPU? Did it have video RAM? Did it have a display processor?
Now what does that sound like to you? A coffee machine?
I dont get why people get so upset over Sony releasing better hardware. Do they also get upset by Apple releasing Pro versions of their phones? People just buy the regular phones and move on. Why get mad at someone for buying the Iphone Pro Max? And why get mad at Apple for releasing it?
@GreatAuk The Genesis was a console made of electronic components. Just as it sounds.
@LogicStrikesAgain It's nothing against new hardware, it's the nickle and diming us that is the point. But you have the usual defenders above so that is just getting worse thanks to people like them.
@Zeke68 But when so many analysists telling us its largely due to inflation and rising component pricing. And we can see it for ourself, for example in other hardware which have prices that have gone through the roof. Consoles arent created in a bubble, they are dependent on component pricing.
And we can verify by trying to build our own PC with equivalent specs that its not possible to create that for the same price. So why do people keep insisting its because of Sony nickle and diming us?
Look im not saying we should accept everything from greedy companies, but having some business logic it makes sense to have a profit margin. Not every console, especially something niche like this can be sold at a loss or break even. Cause its not meant to sell in large volumes so that strategy isnt a very suitable approach for this
@LogicStrikesAgain The PS5 is 7% more expensive to make 2024 compared to the release day one PS5.
And everyone here must understand one thing: And this is important! When Sony or any company talks about we break even, we take a loss and so on when talking about their product it's ALWAYS including the percentage that is calculated including the dividend (spelling?) to the shareholders and the mothercompany itself. In this case Playstation. So if they cut down their share of 20-30% of the units price and took out lets say a profit distrubition of 10% the actual console would be 10-20% cheaper. And now I'm talking about the regular PS5.
My entire point from post one about the Pro. Don't support the greedy shareholders and uppermanagement of Sony/Playstation just 'because'.
It only hurt us customers in the end. Hence me getting a "little" worked up when uninformed people invent reasons to protect that greed. It sounds good what they say, but it ain't right to be honest.
But I leave you guys to celebrate the overexpensive Pro and I will remember every defender here when the PS6 is released. And I'm not going to be thankful of the sheepmentality, that's for sure.
Over and out on this subject.
@Zeke68
I get it. Corporate greed has actually made gaming kinda crap since Embraser Group and other big companies started buying everything during the pandemic thinking they had a new constant revenue stream. Games are rushed, there is less inovation, prices keep going up, and everything is micro transactions and monitization scheems. But here is the rub...MOST...not all...but MOST of us don't care, we are still going to open our wallets on day one and say "Thank You Daddy". Is this right, probably not, but it doesn't matter as we just want things so we feel better.
@GreatAuk I'm fully aware of VAT. There is still a big difference in cost once both sets of tax are calculated.
Even if the price matches the hardware it's Just so unnecessary for the tiny impact has on a game
@darylb24 without the 20% VAT the system would be 580 pounds. The average exchange rate to the dollar has been about $1.25 over the last 12 months.
That translates to around $725 dollars compared to the $700 the US pays. So your system cost is 25 dollars, or around 20 pounds more than the US retail price.
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