@Mega-Gazz my point was that Lootboxes are not OK just since they share some similarities. My point was that there are multiple ways to obtain what you want in an CCG.
But what can get in a lootbox is only available from that lootbox.
Now onto CCG in particular, I do think that they should be considered a form of gambling that targets children exclusively.
The solution to this is that they could let people purchase the cards they wanted rather than pay for a chance to get you want to get. There are places that sell certain cards individually, so that exists as an option.
@naruball if the same practice is in a game, then that means the option to sell, or trade it for the card you want, or purchase the card you want outright then I would consider it to be gambling.
imho the key differences is that there are alternatives to just buying card packs or lootboxes.
I will say that I do think that CCG do need to some form of regulation.
But if they give people multiple ways of getting a certain card then the chance of getting what you want is less of a gamble but more of an option.
I've actually fought him multiple times, if I'd known he was supposed to be some kind of special hidden character I would have made a video about it....
@dryrain I think that the least that will happen is that games with Lootboxes will be rated AO or the PEGI equivalent and thus console manufacturers will not stock them which will do a lot of damage to those franchises.
It could get much worse than that as well, they could create a new rating above AO and class all games with lootboxes in that catagory which will mean no retailers will stock it and no console will allow it on its platform.
@RPE83 I think that has to do with the Star Wars name making this problem resonate with a larger audiance since Fifa 18 and Need for Speed Payback also have the same kind of Lootbox system as SWBF2.
But when you put "Gabling" "Disney" "Star wars" together major news outlets such as CNN and Fox, and the huffington post and WSJ will all pick it up since its the mother of all clickbait headlines.
This issue has been around for a bit, but since the Star Wars brand is at the center of it then it grants mass market visibility.
The people who read news articles on CNN, FOX, BBC, WSJ etc are not going to know what Need for Speed is so they will just assume its the name of a racing casino, but Star Wars?
Everyone knows what that is, and thats why its getting this mass amount of coverage.
Not just from "core" gamers but from the public at large.
@Tasuki except you can trade the cards that you do have for a Gold Pikachu card, or that kid can sell his cards and use the money he got from selling it to buy that specific card.
@Tasuki there is more, much more depth that we can go into.
So for example a physical trading card is your property so fit he company that makes them goes out of business you still have your cards. When a "fee to play" game has lootboxes and whatever you get from that lootbox only exists within the game and if the game goes offline so does everything you got in those lootboxs.
You don't own it, with physical trading cards you do and you can trade what you have for what you want so that offsets that chance mechanic. Basically you are given multiple ways of getting what you want.
Then there's the dopamine effect, dopamine is a very addictive chemical that the brain secretes. Remember the Skinner box method that gambling is based on?
Cash, lootbox, dopamine, more cash, more lootboxes, more dopamine, more lootboxes.
It's a cycle literally steeped in that cycle.
Most Dopamine stimulants are regulated by law such as alcohol, drugs, smoking and gambling among others.
Lootboxes are designed to stimulate dopamine in the people that buy them, thus creating an endless cycle. Similarly to gambling.
As lootboxes depend on the stimulation of dopamine then it should be subjected to the same regulation as other dopamine stimuli.
Children and young adults are very susceptible to these kind of stimuli and can lead to a very real life damaging addiction to bigger dopamine stimuli.
Its not something to be taken lightly, at the very least let the consumer purchase what they want directly rather then "gamble" for a chance to get what they want.
Lets look at it this way.
I want to buy a can of mango juice.
Store A lets me buy it for a set price.
Store B lets me pay for a chance to get that specific mango juice
Thus store B is essentially forcing me to gamble for that chance to get what I want.
Lootboxes on the other hand require that the user becomes addicted to them in order for them to be working as intended.
So you pay $60, you buy a game, you buy a lootboxe then you get a rush of dopamine. Then you buy more lootboxes, then more dopamine and it just keeps going.
@Tasuki Nah unlike looboxes, trading cards can be sold, kept or traded so if I buy a pack of cards and don't get the one I want I can trade it for something else or sell it to get a return on the money I spent. This greatly mitigates the "chance" aspect in trading card games.
I buy a pack of cards for a chance to get the card I want, I can trade a card I already own for the card I want, I can sell the cards that I don't want, and I can buy the card that I do want directly.
3 very different ways of getting the same thing, lootboxes don't give you that choice.
For lootboxes you can't do that, so I can't trade the skins I don't want for the ones i do want nor can I sell them.
I think thats something that you have to keep in mind
As an example in AC Syndicate if the enemy is a level or 2 above yours will do a a 3-5 hit unblockable / unavoidable combo that will leave you with 1 HP.
@Lovespuds Unfortunately we live in times where our expectations are almost completely unrealistic.
The AAA market is becoming more and more unsustainable as time goes on, and the next big hits will come from the little guys like Deck 13 and Spyder.
I'm not saying to give it a 10, but give it a 6.5 - 7 so that the it reflects the the capacity of the studio versus the product.
Compare for a second the Fate / anime series to southpark.
One was made with a studio that could burn a couple mill like it was nothing, and the other one is running on a tight budget.
In a similar way, the Surge was made by a small team with a very limited budget and yet delivered a solid gameplay experience. Then you look at Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 which both had a much larger scale then The Surge and a a greater amount of resources put into its development.
The two are going to be very different, since one is a budget game and the other is the top dog of the sub genre.
Compare this to Demons Souls and you will see that its a pretty good game that has a solid premise that can be expanded upon.
On the topic of its price tag, what warrants a $60 price tag to me is two fold.
1. Does this game look like a game that I can have a lot of fun with?
2. Do I like the premise / or do I want to see more games like it even if its not the best game ever?
If it meats those two criteria then I buy it.
Nothing excuses a poor game to be honest, but think of it like this. What if you compared Ys Lacrimose of Diana to FFXV?
The Ys game would probably get a 2/10 and thats very bad because its a good game for its budget.
Anyways what I mean is just be a bit more forgiving to the little guys, its not their fault that they don't have the resources to make it better but if we support them then the Surge could very well become the next witcher.
Thats the feeling that I get, the same has happened with Persona and Nier. Lets judge and benchmark budget titles to other budget titles.
@get2sammyb I have the same basic feeling, I'll be waiting for a price drop myself but I do think that comparing this to Bloodborne is a bit unwarranted imho.
Its a small studio and they did have to cut a few corners to get this game out there and I feel like I need to support the little guys, you know?
Sure lords of the Fallen was a bit on the bland side but this is an improvement over Lords of the Fallen and I feel like they are getting closer to their breakout hit with every try.
The only breakout hit that CD Project Red had was the Witcher 3, so I think that there is a need to keep the size of a developer in mind when reviewing a game so as to properly contextualize the game for what it is.
Its not trying to compete with BloodBorne or the sole series, but is rather trying to distinguish itself from its inspirations a bit.
I'm starting to think that I should get it just to support more games like it and the souls like sub genre as a whole, there aren't a lot of games that give you the same experience as the Souls series so having something that just gets a bit of it down is good enough so that they can build from there.
A lot of people don't understand that From Software were mainly known for the Armored Core series prior to the Soulsborne series, the souls series enabled them to grow and become more ambitious then they ever could have prior to that point.
If you can spare the cash then get it to support the little guys and the genre, more games like this isn't a bad thing
Sorry if i went a little off topic but I just had a lot to say
It just goes to show that a lot of content was left on the cutting room floor due to time constraints and instead of making a new game with all that cut content they're going to patch it right back into the main game.
How is this a bad thing?
@ShogunRok please help me understand~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Comments 22
Re: Rumour: New Leak Suggests Devil May Cry 5 Is Happening, But It Won't Be at PSX 2017
@FullbringIchigo my home theater fixed that one
Re: Rumour: New Leak Suggests Devil May Cry 5 Is Happening, But It Won't Be at PSX 2017
@ellsworth004 Devil May Cry 4 on the PS4 is the one I recomend
Re: Belgium Reckons Loot Boxes Are Gambling, Wants Them Banned in Europe
@Mega-Gazz my point was that Lootboxes are not OK just since they share some similarities. My point was that there are multiple ways to obtain what you want in an CCG.
But what can get in a lootbox is only available from that lootbox.
Now onto CCG in particular, I do think that they should be considered a form of gambling that targets children exclusively.
The solution to this is that they could let people purchase the cards they wanted rather than pay for a chance to get you want to get. There are places that sell certain cards individually, so that exists as an option.
@naruball if the same practice is in a game, then that means the option to sell, or trade it for the card you want, or purchase the card you want outright then I would consider it to be gambling.
imho the key differences is that there are alternatives to just buying card packs or lootboxes.
I will say that I do think that CCG do need to some form of regulation.
But if they give people multiple ways of getting a certain card then the chance of getting what you want is less of a gamble but more of an option.
I hope that makes sense
Re: Belgium Reckons Loot Boxes Are Gambling, Wants Them Banned in Europe
@RPE83 like I always say, if you let buy it then I won't mind it.
On that note, if the Nintendo network goes offline and you can no longer play a game like Splatoon you still get to keep your Amiibo hahahahahaha.
Now the amiibo thing actually would fall into the same category as CCG (collectable card games) or trading card games if you think of it.
Nintendo dodged a major bullet there and now its going to hit EA like an arrow to the knee
Re: Missing Bloodborne Monster Finally Hunted Down
I've actually fought him multiple times, if I'd known he was supposed to be some kind of special hidden character I would have made a video about it....
Curses.........
Re: Belgium Reckons Loot Boxes Are Gambling, Wants Them Banned in Europe
@RPE83 lol
The point stands that the SW brand made this far more visible to the public at large, no SWBF2 for Jimmy!
Now go play BoTW like a good boy!!!
Re: Belgium Reckons Loot Boxes Are Gambling, Wants Them Banned in Europe
@dryrain I think that the least that will happen is that games with Lootboxes will be rated AO or the PEGI equivalent and thus console manufacturers will not stock them which will do a lot of damage to those franchises.
It could get much worse than that as well, they could create a new rating above AO and class all games with lootboxes in that catagory which will mean no retailers will stock it and no console will allow it on its platform.
All big wins in my eyes
Re: Belgium Reckons Loot Boxes Are Gambling, Wants Them Banned in Europe
@RPE83 I think that has to do with the Star Wars name making this problem resonate with a larger audiance since Fifa 18 and Need for Speed Payback also have the same kind of Lootbox system as SWBF2.
But when you put "Gabling" "Disney" "Star wars" together major news outlets such as CNN and Fox, and the huffington post and WSJ will all pick it up since its the mother of all clickbait headlines.
This issue has been around for a bit, but since the Star Wars brand is at the center of it then it grants mass market visibility.
The people who read news articles on CNN, FOX, BBC, WSJ etc are not going to know what Need for Speed is so they will just assume its the name of a racing casino, but Star Wars?
Everyone knows what that is, and thats why its getting this mass amount of coverage.
Not just from "core" gamers but from the public at large.
I hope this makes sense
Re: Belgium Reckons Loot Boxes Are Gambling, Wants Them Banned in Europe
@RPE83 So I take it my argument made some semblance of sense?
Hahahahahahahaha
Re: Belgium Reckons Loot Boxes Are Gambling, Wants Them Banned in Europe
@ellsworth004 You can't have an Itunes account, nor a Google Play store account unless it has a working credit card attached to it.
So this could actually be due to the way Apple and Google have structured their app stores.
I'd advise that every parent only register a debit card with a balance of $0 on it to protect their children from these systems.
Also use prepaid cards when available over credit cards whenever possible.
Re: Belgium Reckons Loot Boxes Are Gambling, Wants Them Banned in Europe
@Tasuki except you can trade the cards that you do have for a Gold Pikachu card, or that kid can sell his cards and use the money he got from selling it to buy that specific card.
I said that in my previous reply btw
Re: Belgium Reckons Loot Boxes Are Gambling, Wants Them Banned in Europe
@Tasuki there is more, much more depth that we can go into.
So for example a physical trading card is your property so fit he company that makes them goes out of business you still have your cards. When a "fee to play" game has lootboxes and whatever you get from that lootbox only exists within the game and if the game goes offline so does everything you got in those lootboxs.
You don't own it, with physical trading cards you do and you can trade what you have for what you want so that offsets that chance mechanic. Basically you are given multiple ways of getting what you want.
Then there's the dopamine effect, dopamine is a very addictive chemical that the brain secretes. Remember the Skinner box method that gambling is based on?
Cash, lootbox, dopamine, more cash, more lootboxes, more dopamine, more lootboxes.
It's a cycle literally steeped in that cycle.
Most Dopamine stimulants are regulated by law such as alcohol, drugs, smoking and gambling among others.
Lootboxes are designed to stimulate dopamine in the people that buy them, thus creating an endless cycle. Similarly to gambling.
As lootboxes depend on the stimulation of dopamine then it should be subjected to the same regulation as other dopamine stimuli.
Children and young adults are very susceptible to these kind of stimuli and can lead to a very real life damaging addiction to bigger dopamine stimuli.
Its not something to be taken lightly, at the very least let the consumer purchase what they want directly rather then "gamble" for a chance to get what they want.
Lets look at it this way.
I want to buy a can of mango juice.
Store A lets me buy it for a set price.
Store B lets me pay for a chance to get that specific mango juice
Thus store B is essentially forcing me to gamble for that chance to get what I want.
Lootboxes on the other hand require that the user becomes addicted to them in order for them to be working as intended.
So you pay $60, you buy a game, you buy a lootboxe then you get a rush of dopamine. Then you buy more lootboxes, then more dopamine and it just keeps going.
Re: Belgium Reckons Loot Boxes Are Gambling, Wants Them Banned in Europe
@Tasuki Nah unlike looboxes, trading cards can be sold, kept or traded so if I buy a pack of cards and don't get the one I want I can trade it for something else or sell it to get a return on the money I spent. This greatly mitigates the "chance" aspect in trading card games.
I buy a pack of cards for a chance to get the card I want, I can trade a card I already own for the card I want, I can sell the cards that I don't want, and I can buy the card that I do want directly.
3 very different ways of getting the same thing, lootboxes don't give you that choice.
For lootboxes you can't do that, so I can't trade the skins I don't want for the ones i do want nor can I sell them.
I think thats something that you have to keep in mind
Re: Review: Assassin's Creed Origins (PS4)
@shogunRok
I have to ask.......is the combat fair?
As an example in AC Syndicate if the enemy is a level or 2 above yours will do a a 3-5 hit unblockable / unavoidable combo that will leave you with 1 HP.
Is something like that in AC Origins?
Re: Review: The Surge (PS4)
@Lovespuds Unfortunately we live in times where our expectations are almost completely unrealistic.
The AAA market is becoming more and more unsustainable as time goes on, and the next big hits will come from the little guys like Deck 13 and Spyder.
I'm not saying to give it a 10, but give it a 6.5 - 7 so that the it reflects the the capacity of the studio versus the product.
Compare for a second the Fate / anime series to southpark.
One was made with a studio that could burn a couple mill like it was nothing, and the other one is running on a tight budget.
In a similar way, the Surge was made by a small team with a very limited budget and yet delivered a solid gameplay experience. Then you look at Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 which both had a much larger scale then The Surge and a a greater amount of resources put into its development.
The two are going to be very different, since one is a budget game and the other is the top dog of the sub genre.
Compare this to Demons Souls and you will see that its a pretty good game that has a solid premise that can be expanded upon.
On the topic of its price tag, what warrants a $60 price tag to me is two fold.
1. Does this game look like a game that I can have a lot of fun with?
2. Do I like the premise / or do I want to see more games like it even if its not the best game ever?
If it meats those two criteria then I buy it.
Nothing excuses a poor game to be honest, but think of it like this. What if you compared Ys Lacrimose of Diana to FFXV?
The Ys game would probably get a 2/10 and thats very bad because its a good game for its budget.
Anyways what I mean is just be a bit more forgiving to the little guys, its not their fault that they don't have the resources to make it better but if we support them then the Surge could very well become the next witcher.
Thats the feeling that I get, the same has happened with Persona and Nier. Lets judge and benchmark budget titles to other budget titles.
/rant
Re: Tekken 7 Story Recap Animation Is Both Educational and Hilarious
Bloody genius!!!!
Re: Review: The Surge (PS4)
@get2sammyb I have the same basic feeling, I'll be waiting for a price drop myself but I do think that comparing this to Bloodborne is a bit unwarranted imho.
Its a small studio and they did have to cut a few corners to get this game out there and I feel like I need to support the little guys, you know?
Sure lords of the Fallen was a bit on the bland side but this is an improvement over Lords of the Fallen and I feel like they are getting closer to their breakout hit with every try.
The only breakout hit that CD Project Red had was the Witcher 3, so I think that there is a need to keep the size of a developer in mind when reviewing a game so as to properly contextualize the game for what it is.
Its not trying to compete with BloodBorne or the sole series, but is rather trying to distinguish itself from its inspirations a bit.
I'm starting to think that I should get it just to support more games like it and the souls like sub genre as a whole, there aren't a lot of games that give you the same experience as the Souls series so having something that just gets a bit of it down is good enough so that they can build from there.
A lot of people don't understand that From Software were mainly known for the Armored Core series prior to the Soulsborne series, the souls series enabled them to grow and become more ambitious then they ever could have prior to that point.
If you can spare the cash then get it to support the little guys and the genre, more games like this isn't a bad thing
Sorry if i went a little off topic but I just had a lot to say
Re: Some of These Plans for Final Fantasy XV Sound Insane
It just goes to show that a lot of content was left on the cutting room floor due to time constraints and instead of making a new game with all that cut content they're going to patch it right back into the main game.
How is this a bad thing?
@ShogunRok please help me understand~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Site News: Push Square Forum Members Vote Uncharted 4 Game of the Year
@JaxonH same thing here.
I haven't had this much fun since the PS2 days , FFXV is my GOTY by a landslide.
Re: Final Fantasy XV Buffed with 3.2GB Patch on PS4
@AhabSpampurse
You can start a NG+ from the main menu as New game will be replaced with New Game+
Re: Round Up: Final Fantasy XV PS4 Reviews Hit the Road
@ShogunRok Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take your Rok, savor the experience...............its not every day that a game like FFXV comes out.
I'm looking forward to your impressions but please make sure to pay attention to the small details.
Re: Hardware Review: PS4 Pro - Should You Buy It?
@get2sammyb Is it possible to transfer games like PT FFXV Episode Duscae and FFXV Platinum Demo from a regular PS4 to a PS4 Pro via ethernet transfer?