SirAngry

Most analysts have current demand ratios for PS5 Vs XSS|X in the 4 or 5 to 1 category in favour of Sony. A number of retailers have intimated they've had more initial stock of the PS5 and that they still have far more unmet demand for the PS5. If they are manufacturing as many as rumoured, and if the demand is as big as retailers and analysts seem to suggest... well, Sony's not being arrogant, they're being modest. Whether or not Horizon Forbidden West is on PS4 won't matter too much, because it'll look far superior on PS5. Throw in GoW and rumours of two as yet unannounced first party games rumoured to launch in 2021 as well, the demand will almost certainly be there. If they can make the things fast enough, well, I can see them hitting 30m in their first year easily.

@God_of_Nowt if they're in the hands of studios now, they should be getting them to journalists soon I'd imagine.

@God_of_Nowt I'm trying to convince a former contract manager to let me hop on a train and have go myself. So far he's not having it... and I helped him move flat... twice... and he had way too many books!!!

I can do whiskey too, and rum. Not much if a vodka drinker, but most spirits I'll imbibe.

@GREGORIAN the problem is pre-orders went live without key information being available. For the record many of these Japanese YouTubers were actually critical and frustrated with the access granted. The trouble Sony have right now is that their closest competitor is being way more open and has shown way more. So in a comparison they don't look good right now. But for balance Microsoft's problem is that they've shown nothing running on XSX. That's not good enough either. I don't get it too, I know of two games at least that are definitely up and running on the XSX, they aren't fully optimised yet, but they should be showable, ones a launch window game for Pete's sake. So, when compared to the plethora of games shown running in the PS5 I do find that unacceptable and odd. Neither corporation has a pass with me. Can you say the same?

Depends on the density of the world they've created. Map size comparisons are always bizarre to me, in and of themselves they always tell you very little. I'm looking forward to seeing what this game is like when it comes out.

@God_of_Nowt I am having a really weird day... I've been called a Sony fanboy, and hater... I've been accused of being an Xbox fanboy, and hater... thank God I didn't say anything about Nintendo, I'm feeling schizophrenic enough. I give my honest opinion always, and I try to be informed when I give it, don't always get things right, but the idea that I would tie myself to a corporate banner of any kind is thoroughly bizarre to me. I'm an anti-capitalist forced to live in and work in a neoliberal world so I can keep myself supplied with gin to numb the pain of existence... and occasionally buy a bag of crisps. The idea I would somehow shill for these monolithic entities is anathema to me, so @GREGORIAN is just so far wide of the mark that perhaps the thing he's accused us of, is the thing they themselves are guilty of.

Now that's what I call ventilation. These, as in production units, are starting to drop into the hands of Devs in decent quantities now. So I fully expect journalists to get hands on soon, particularly for reviews. If stuff doesn't leak in the next week or two... well... it's going to be shocking.

@GREGORIAN nope what happened was Liam commented and suggested that people couldn't and shouldn't criticise Sony. Sorry, but I thought that was rubbish, he could've clarified his comment, but he hasn't, a d that's fine, that's his prerogative, it is mine however to call out any companies BS wherever and whenever I can, or to critique their strategy as I see fit. You're welcome to disagree, but not mischaracterise my comments like you have done here, my criticism is that Sony aren't being open. Quite frankly I'd have expected Sony to arrange hands on sessions for the likes of Liam by now, why? Because developers have been getting retail PS5's for over a fortnight now, maybe longer for the likes of Dice and the big boys. Sony's forward facing communication strategy has been poor, and this was another example of that. I think I know what they've got to show, and I just don't get why they aren't showing it.

@GREGORIAN facepalm, you really don't get the criticism I'm levelling here do you? To spell it out for you, even the Japanese YouTubers were critical of their "hands off" experience as one put it, because they weren't allowed to access the UI or other console features, or even touch the system itself. My criticism is that of the YouTubers themselves, this would have been a good chance to actually answer some of the questions people wanted answering. But nope. Also I literally said I wanted more hands on experiences in more languages, if you can't read and comprehend you shouldn't respond.

I am so looking forward to getting my hands on this update, Ghost of Tsushima is so far my personal game of the year. Hope this GoT Legends is as good as it looks.

@GREGORIAN you could really do with reading everything every one says in a thread before responding. It'd save you looking like a tool. In my very first comment #9:

"I get that they needed to do this for the Japanese market, the "reveal" events were both in English"

Or #42:

"I actually don't think giving hands on to Japanese YouTubers first is a problem, although technically you're wrong, they gave Geoff "new head of Sony Marketing" Keighley the first hands on impression"

Or from the same comment:

"Not everything has to be for the West, or more specifically the Anglosphere. However, it'd been nice to see more of the system software itself in action, it'd also be nice if we had an actual marketing roadmap from Sony as to when things they said would be shown will be."

Or #53:

"Just like MS are getting it in the neck for not showing XSX footage, as in games natively coded to run on XSX"

Or #61:

"These things are usually in English, and I get you can't do everything in Spanish, French, German, Korean etc. etc. etc. I do think it's good that events like this do exist in languages other than English, in fact I'd support way more hands on events in many languages"

Look, if you're going to have a discussion with somebody you need to at first read what they've said, rather than what you hope they've said. It'll stop you looking like a fool.

@GREGORIAN and what about my comments on here make you think I don't get that? Read comment #41, I even say I'm skeptical myself. I'm just answering others questions. If you are going to respond to people, try to at least respond to everything they've said. There is a serious problem with developers / publishers not being upfront and honest with customers, and selling products via deceit, I've said as much on this site many, many times. The industry has to start being more honest about its products.

@Octane maybe. I agree it's not looking promising. I'm certainly not the sort of person to give a company like Gearbox the benefit of any doubt. However, you can patch out online requirements from games at a later date, and the game can then run without the connection. I'd also like to point out there are other games with similar listings most notably Borderlands 3, which you can play solo, without PS+, but does require PS+ for co-op. I think they'll need to explain what's going on though, because trust is at an all time low for game companies right now.

It could be that it requires an online connection in the same way Dark Souls needs an online connection. There could also be asynchronous online elements where one players actions affect your game world, a la Death Stranding. Plenty of legitimate reasons as to why an online connection might be required, and could be patched out should the servers get switched off...

There ends my devils advocate schtick, I'm skeptical. This is Gearbox publishing the game, and we're dealing with an industry that is in general terms shady as s***. I will wait for updates from the developers, but there is no benefit of the doubt.

@CedAlastor sorry, didn't see your comment, as @DeepSpace5D it's based off of what YouTubers have said, and what MS told them BC is more limited. Will it improve? Almost certainly, but 500 hundred is considerably less than the thousands promised. There have been some seriously backtracking from MS over the last few months. They've just been lucky they've had some good news stories like purchasing Zenimax, and the fact Sony have been pretty bad at getting news and info out, moreso than Microsoft.

The DualSense is a really cool piece of kit. I think once it's in people's hands they'll be really pleased. It's quite the step up on what has gone before.

@Jeanhenry if I'm reapplying thermal paste I've already cleaned the heatsink and fan. I might sound like an idiot, but I'm not one.

@CedAlastor actually they snook out only 500 or so games are confirmed to work.

@koffing on the software side of things my understanding is the opposite. Sony got Dev kits into hands ages ago, and the SDK environment is exceedingly familiar and easy to deal with. So as I understand it Sony are far along on Software, and moving at a fast pace. I'm hearing the opposite from camp green. We have actually seen PS5 code running on PS5 hardware after all, whereas we haven't seen XSX code running on XSX hardware.

@God_of_Nowt I'm expecting the first teardown of the PS5 to happen on the 12th November when people actually get these things in there hands and back home. I also expect games to be reviewed a few weeks after launch. lol. Joking, well, about reviews any way... I hope. The teardown might not happen until after the 28th October from what I've heard. That's potentially going to wind a fair few people up.

I'd honestly forgot about them. Not interested in NFS, haven't liked them for some time. I have already played Vampyr and hit the platinum, it was an OK little game. I do wonder how the Spanish Flu / pandemic narrative will go over now given we are living through a pandemic as well. So another month not for me I guess. But I would urge people to at least give Vampyr a chance.

@JohnKarnes I have been told that you can actually get at both the fan and the heatsink, although that wasn't the word they used, easily for cleaning. The idea is that it should be easy to maintain. However, given some of their parents I'm not sure that reapplying thermal paste will be possible.

@talocaca I've already acknowledged the event wasn't for me, I've even said it needed to happen, in fact I said there needs to be more such events in multiple languages, so wind your chin in. The issue was people saying it's not fair to voice concerns or criticisms at this stage with Sony's communication strategy. Rubbish. They've been awful. As slick as their two online events have been they've actually said very little.

@God_of_Nowt I get that what I've just expressed on a Sony dedicated site might go down like a lead balloon, hell, I even expected it to, but I just couldn't allow the idea that Sony are above criticism to slide. I know many PR types are spitting feathers over Sony's poor handling of the messaging around PS5 so far. It's been dire. Truth is Microsoft haven't been great either, the whole "we don't need games to sell hardware" would have been a Don Mattrick level calamity any other console launch, but given Sony's impression of an Eastern bloc regime where no information is allowed it just slid on by. There are other issues, no XSX software gameplay still, unbelievable at this stage. The fact 500 games will be BC with XSS|X whereas I know it's nearly 4000 for PS5 should be a win, but Sony just aren't talking so they're missing these open goals Microsoft have gifted them. They've both been poor, but Sony have been worse in my opinion. Other opinions are available.

@koffing I'm glad somebody understands where I'm coming from. I actually know why they didn't just send PS5's out. Because they don't want people taking them apart, which I've been told is real easy to do, and it's intended to be easy. They have stuff they need to discuss at some point that exists on the inside of the box. Maybe part of it is they aren't prepared right now to reveal all of their strategy, which is baffling to me, but fine. Maybe AMD really have embargoed them as I was told two months ago, and maybe they have to wait until the RDNA2 event before they show of what they've done with AMDs patents. Either way communicate with people. The lack of launch game footage though at this point is... well it's crazy.

@TheIdleCritic menu's for some reason hit the PS4 hard. You can see it in analysers, I have no idea why, I know Cerny has mentioned it a few times at tech talks. I should probably go listen as to why.

@SilkySmile89 I made the point on here a few weeks back that AMD historically have left performance on the table with their GPU clocks, and that RDNA2 was targeting far higher clocks this time around. Rumours from tech sites were that they hadn't quite hit the 2.5GHz they had planned for, but I said I didn't think the PS5's clocks fell outside of AMDs stated targets. I still don't.

@Arugula thanks.

As others have said though, the proof of the whisper quiet PS5 pudding will come a few years down the line when God of 16 or whatever is released. However a few Sony patents have me convinced they've taken heat dissipation very, very seriously this time, and I am eager to see their actual solution.

@Arugula I have a day 1 PS4 and until about 6 to 8 months ago I had zero problems with fan noise. Then all of a sudden it decided it wanted to emulate a 747 taking off while watching Netflix. Took it apart a reapplied some thermal paste, but it didn't seem to make much difference. It's clear though that many Pepe have had issues with fan noise, so if Sony have solved that with the PS5 it's good news.

@mrbone I'm not criticising Push Square though, and even if I was it wouldn't matter if some other site / publication was worse. Whataboutery is nonsense. I'm just expressing that people do have a right at this point to be critical of Sony's poor communication over the PS5, which a writer here implied they didn't.

This event in isolation is fine, and I have nothing against it, but it does not exist in isolation, it exists in an information vacuum Sony have created. That's their problem, and until they fill that vacuum they will continue to annoy people and take some flak. Some of it undeserved maybe, but we're a month out, and by now you'd expect to have seen far more of their product.

@LiamCroft well clear up what your comment meant then, because that's my interpretation of what you had written, and it's why I responded. You're saying people can't moan or be disappointed in what was shown. If that wasn't your intent, I'll take some blame for misunderstanding, but you have to take some as well because I think my interpretation is a fair one to make given the implications of your words.

@Darylb88 I got the sarcasm yes, but the point about communicating to people in different languages is a fair point to make. These things are usually in English, and I get you can't do everything in Spanish, French, German, Korean etc. etc. etc. I do think it's good that events like this do exist in languages other than English, in fact I'd support way more hands on events in many languages. However, I kinda think there's a lot more that should've been shown by now from Sony. If you don't care about the UI, the teardown etc. that's fine, but plenty of people do.

@LiamCroft and that's fine, I've even said as much in my comments above, but in a globally interconnected world these events are going to be picked up, and for the record fairly senior Sony Execs including Shuhei Yoshida did promote these videos, and did do in English as well I believe. The point still stands though, overall Sony's communication strategy around the PS5 has been poor. Is that my opinion? Yeah. Are others allowed different opinions? Absolutely, but when you say things like:

"So when Sony doesn’t do anything, everyone moans. But when Sony does do something, you..still moan?"

You are essentially saying Sony isn't open to criticism that they are above it, and that you shouldn't be able to critique them. Sorry, that's rubbish.

@LiamCroft I'm not criticising the event, I'm criticising Sony's overall communication strategy, of which this is a part of. Everything Sony does, which is essentially the same as has already been seen, even if via different personalities, is open to critique at this point, and I think is fair game. This was a controlled environment staged by Sony. This is what they wanted to show, and given communication is a two way street every time they do something that doesn't respond to their consumer bases requests for specific information will be met with critique. That's just the reality. Just like MS are getting it in the neck for not showing XSX footage, as in games natively coded to run on XSX, not back compatibility games like Gears 5.

@JJ2 I don't think it was an over reaction. Do I seem like I'm the sort of person to react in a dramatic manner? Or be hyperbolic? You're happy with what you've seen. That's great. I am not. We've seen enough Godfall, and Astro's Playroom? Really? Just think a month out from release we should have seen way more by now. Seeing the PS5 in the wild might be a big deal for some, but I already knew what it looked like, so for me it wasn't a big deal.

@Darylb88 I actually don't think giving hands on to Japanese YouTubers first isn't a problem, although technically you're wrong, they gave Geoff "new head of Sony Marketing" Keighley the first hands on impression. I even see how genuinely they needed to do this. Sony's official communication events so far have exclusively been in English, so they absolutely did have to do this for the Japanese market. Not everything has to be for the West, or more specifically the Anglosphere. However, it'd been nice to see more of the system software itself in action, it'd also be nice if we had an actual marketing roadmap from Sony as to when things they said would be shown will be.

@JJ2 these videos are part of Sony's strategy. Did they not arrange these hands on sessions? Did they not promote them? Did they not stage manage them? I think they did, thus this is part of Sony's broader communication strategy. So what I say is relevant.

@JJ2 you do know people can be critical without sending death threats right? It's not a dichotomous choice between being enthusiastically supportive, or so angry you send death threats? People saying these videos were pointless for them, and that we learned nothing new of note have a right to express that opinion. I'll say it again, on March 18th Mark Cerny said we'd get a teardown soon. Now, he might operate on a different plane of existence to the rest of us, but, well we're on the 4th October now and it still hasn't happened. We're a month away from launch, no UI demonstration, and no preview of games from journalists. I get Covid-19 plays a big part in all of this to some degree, but when the other lot have shown way more I think it becomes less excusable. Sony's communication with gamers / consumers has been one note.

PS. If you think I'm normally level headed and even handed, and I'm saying that the communication from Sony is poor, maybe there's something to what I'm saying. I'm not a Sony hater, I don't go off on rants, I've not done here, I'm just saying they still haven't given consumers what they want. Which they haven't. Arrogance or ineptitude, at this points that's your choice.

@LiamCroft oh dear, you've missed the point. It doesn't matter what they said would be shown. There are things they need to show. That they haven't. They keep showing the same things, and they keep ignoring the things people are asking to see, so yeah, they're going to be criticised every time they do any kind of event where they essentially repeat the same stuff. A month away from launch and still no hands on with launch games apart from Astro and now Godfall and DMC5. It is weird. Not as weird as MS not showing XSX footage of actual next-gen games, but they've shown a teardown and the UI and given it to people to do with as they please. This was a staged event (understandable) where again they showed nothing new. If you were dehydrated and asked for a glass of water and someone brought you a bag of salt, well, I think you'd have a right to be annoyed. Sony aren't communicating. They aren't listening to what people are asking for and whether that's justifiable or not is moot, it's poor communication.

@LiamCroft, well yes. Is it what people have been asking for? Nope. Is it stuff we've already seen? Yes. So it's still poor communication by Sony, and thus open to criticism. This was a strange series of events / engagements with YouTubers. I get that they needed to do this for the Japanese market, the "reveal" events were both in English, but it's weird we don't have EU and NA YouTubers taking part as well in similar events. What new things have we learned? That's the problem here. Also where are launch games like Sackboy's Big Adventure and Destruction Allstars? We're just over a month away from launch, and we haven't seen them. They've got to be in a ready to show state at this point. It's just very odd.

The very best corporate suits I have ever encountered were Andrew House and Peter Moore. Both took time to talk to you, and both seemed genuinely interested in what was going on in the industry at a grass roots level. I couldn't tell you whether they were "gamers" but they're the only two big wigs I ever saw on convention floors actually trying out games like the rest of us. I do think there's something in that, like they both actually wanted to play games, even if they were bad at it. Moore also had a good sense of humour, which always helps.

Never had cause to meet Jim. Most who have said he's plenty nice, an affable sort, just not inspiring. I strangely have no problem with him not knowing the name of Kratos, or even pretending that he does. There are execs I've met who wear the T-shirts and talk down to the kids yo, who I find far worse because they're fake. Jim's job is to make sure he supplies those who create the games a platform worthy enough to put them on and the resources to make the games. He has people underneath him who have the passion, and the skills, my issue is with his decision making and caution in everything he does. Admittedly this is from the outside, I have zero insider knowledge, he just never exudes confidence, he just doesn't look like a person you'd fight for in the trenches.

I compare him to say Phil Harrison or Andrew House, people I have met, and how enthusiastic and interested in things they were. How they asked questions, how they talked about things that excited them and how they wanted you to feel the excitement they felt. They both were very different people, but you could tell they were leaders, maybe not natural leaders, but people who knew where they wanted to go, and wanted you to come along for the ride. Tretton and Leydon were the same, Jim isn't like that. I don't get a sense of his vision or direction, there's no big picture, just bean counting and micromanaging every situation... and I can't shake this feeling that he's a control freak unable to react, and in this industry that's a serious impediment.

@God_of_Nowt agreed on all accounts. These Japanese YouTubers have said that Sony has been hands off with what they can and can't say... my Japanese is crap, but a friend's is really good, she's from Hokkaido. I had heard Sony were running behind closed door session with the PS5 with some people in Europe a few weeks back, but nothing has come of it. Jim Ryan seems like a nice bloke, he really does, but he doesn't seem like the sort of chap you'd put in charge of a major global brand. He always struck me as far too cautious and at times, timid. He's the kind of person you want on your brain trust, sensible Jim, cautious Jim... but in charge of it? I'm not sure.

Sony took the Japanese market for granted during the PS4 era... it's always treated Europe like scum though, so no change there. I am surprised the PS5 hasn't been put in the hands of US social media stars... sorry, please excuse me while I go and vomit.

@NEStalgia actually our perspective probably won't be defending the industry. Those inside it know better than most the scummy practices involved. I regularly lambast the business practices of the industry, and where some of the big players within gaming are trying to steer the industry, it's truly lamentable to me.

However, as much as I can see people not grasping what they've done here as being all that much work, I can assure you that a hell of a lot has gone into this product. Just watching the animations within the combat and the lining up of impacts and physics response to impacts tells me they've done a hell of a lot under the hood. But, as I've said above, from the consumers perspective I absolutely get it. Most of this stuff won't be noticeable to many. So don't buy it. Sony and Insomniac might get the message.

I am actually with some of the so-called "whingers" on this one, like Control and 505 Games, it smacks a bit of greed when the trend this generation has mostly been towards offering free upgrade paths for games. In the context of what is happening in the wider industry it's not good, certainly isn't as consumer friendly as the competition and many third parties. I just think the ranting around it is becoming a tad hyperbolic, by all means voice your displeasure, but it's happening, and no amount of moaning on Push Square or Twitter will change it. Not buying it might make Sony rethink their strategy... but unless it's proving cathartic and is doing your mental health good... well... just be like Elsa and let it go...

@God_of_Nowt

"Do you ever wish you couldn't see all the flaws people like us do?"

No, because my sunny nihilistic disposition and acerbic wit wouldn't exist, and that's a world I'd probably want to live in. What a horrible thought.

Sony have nailed the PS5's development environment. They just have. Honestly squealed like a little girl when I first got my hands on it a realised I didn't have to learn too much new stuff, and just how easy it was to... well... make things work. Then almost a year later we got Microsoft's efforts and I had a nervous breakdown... purely coincidental I'm sure. It actually was coincidental, but it didn't help. lol. They'll fix it I'm sure, and I know some people who say "it's fine", but I don't know any one who loves the development environment they've put out.

@RedShirtRod I think a key thing to point out here is that this will be a polished product. Insomniac won't put something out that doesn't meet their standards, and believe me when I say this, Insomniacs standards are very high and they have a lot of respect within the industry. They don't want to do any material damage to that, and I'm sure they won't.

Not knowing anything about your industry, or even what it is, but if during your staff training it turned out the collective efforts of your staff on this training exercise was damn near close to a saleable product, with just a little extra push wouldn't you at least consider pursuing it?

@torne it's a general problem with humanity right now. So many people think:

1) Everything is about them.

&

2) If it's not, it damn well should be.

We've all become generally more narcissistic as a society, and probably selfish too, but I guess that goes hand in hand. Not every game is for me. Not everything is about me, quite frankly I'm glad it's not because I have neither the time nor the money to play all the games.

@God_of_Nowt it's also important for people to grasp that stuff like this keeps people in the studio and gainfully employed. The ramping down at the end of projects where hundreds of staff are made redundant isn't sane. It sucks for the staff, and the studios lose a lot of experience, so shifting staff between multiple projects that have core teams is just better for everyone, apart from shareholders... but if you pardon my French... **** 'em!!!

@God_of_Nowt was the sender of the video an employee of a studio whose name is an gaming implement more commonly associated with boardgames? To be honest I understand why the DmC5 team went overboard with the RT, and actually some of the diffuse lighting is really quite nice, they were slaughtered for their "reflections" in the original, or more precisely the lack thereof. I know a few people in other studios were happy they were having issues getting RT working on XSX though, because it made them feel happier about their failures to do likewise. Microsoft need to rapidly improve their GDK.

@RedShirtRod yes. Because studios do this stuff any way at the start of a new generation. The groundwork was already there, the game already existed. So once you've got it up and running, added in the higher quality assets, tested your RT solutions and new BVH etc. etc. etc... well, you're not far off of a polished releasable product. So why not go the extra mile? You might even give the project management of certain aspects to junior staff members to finish it off and mentor them through it. That will be an invaluable learning experience for the staff, and a massively useful resource to draw on when trying to push out the next game on time. One of the things the games industry is shockingly bad at is project management, and the more people within a studio with experience of managing targets in an agile environment the better. There are too few people in most studios to keep a close eye on all the spinning plates and more importantly who just don't understand the impact of not hitting one target has on 5 others. I see worth in it for a developer.