Scollurio

@Cloud39472 Falling back on insults again? Classy. It's people like you why people of differing opinions can't have a human like discussion again these days.

@Col_McCafferty Why so? Because I'm discussing a franchise I'm passionate about? Isn't that why we all are here? Besides, I'm interested in other people's takes on the matter.

@Orochilocka I see what you mean. But imagine watching Cap. America and Ironman movie, and suddenly something in the core of the movie changes so drastically it's not the same anymore.

@djlard I just fear without having played and loved the first part yet, you'll miss out on much of the themes people are so disappointed about. But looking at it that way, it's maybe the better thing you can do - TLOU will feel like Mario Sunshine after TLOU II, if you decide to still play it then!

@WallyWest What an ignorant assumption. Don't judge others by your own behaviour dude. I tried hard to like it and was actually looking for redeeming qualities, story- and narrative-wise. Unfortunately MY wait for this sequel was in vain.

@Murray Let us know what you think once you're in the second half of the game!

@H4ilHydra Hey I'd buy that!

@nessisonett I don't have the impression that this has anything to do with people being disappointed.

@MidoDaDon That lady from IGN explains this. A 10/10 doesn't mean everything is perfect. It's more like a "most recommended buy" thing from the one person that reviewed it. While I can see this argument I still don't see how this is a 10/10 then, as it can't be "highly recommended to everyone" in that sense. It shouldn't be highly recommended to fans of the first one, without a major hint at the change in narrative and it should also be made much clearer HOW violent this thing really is. But that's just me.

@Cloud39472 Same goes for 10/10 then?

@playstation1995 Enlightening.

@Grimwood I think I just met him. How can a game be objectively the best when all opinions the reviews are based on are subjective? Also, why is Trump so dumb, can you name three things without "orange man bad" and anything you read on CNN? Is your opinion even YOURS?

@hi_drnick I get where you're coming from, but I also get the disappointed fans. If you're going into part II with the expectation to have a similar narrative and chemistry between Joel and Ellie like in the first game and this the sole reason you came, it's easy to see it as a 0/10 if that expectation is not only not met, but utterly destroyed.

Also, neither me or you can judge how many of those reviewers know how much about the game or have actually played it, but the same goes for the many weird-english-language 10/10 user reviews.

To me personally the most disgraceful thing about it all was Sony's/ND's reaction to youtubers merely talking about the leaks (and not showing any artwork or footage) and how the trailers were made to look like you could expect the game to be like the first part in certain aspects when now that it's released it's clear that it's not and the the trailers were a forgery.

@Cloud39472 If leaving a negative review about something you care about qualifies people to be cretins and trash human beings you should re-evaluate your world-view.

@Deadlyblack Crazy how blindly people defend it without knowing about the leaks... that have all been confirmed.

@80sGamer Thank you, I'm glad with ANY impressions you share. Even though it's a weird concept to me, not playing a game for the story (if it's something else than Mario Kart - which I love)

@Kidfried See, that's already happening, with the activism in the world right now it's not far now that we will be burning books of white authors in the streets.

All of this is *****, in both ways.

I still don't get it. Growing up I loved the old chinese Kung Fu movies with Jackie Chan and all the other fellas I still can't pronounce. I watched Transformers and loved Sailor Moon. Also I loved early comedies with Eddie Murphie and later with that guy that partnered up with Chackie Chan for Rush Hour (sorry can't remember his name right now).

I am not black, not asian, not an animated cartoon robot and not a japanese girl. Yet I never felt exkluded. I just enjoyed good wholesome fun. That's all and that's my point.

Create quality content beyond agenda pushing (in all media) and it will have it's fans, regardless of their skin color or whatnot.

Again it sounds like kindergarden to me when watching some sort of media with people different to myself in any way shape or form I just can't imagine how a sane person above the age of 5 would go "OOH, they're all different to me, they have more/less hair, other skin color, boobs/no boobs - I feel excluded now, they should all be like me!"

If you think about it this way, the issue about representation isn't the media itself (you can't please everyone, you can't have every minority of every sort represented anyway) but the way how people are raised.

If you feel exkluded and uncomfortable watching a show with people of a different skin color than you, probably YOU are the racist...

@Robinsad Yeah, that's why the infos about the leaks are spreading like wildfire, as people who are accused of being trolls want to spare other fans of the first game the disappointment.

@playstation1995 did you learn to write on a smartphone?!

@wiiware You mean after TLOU2 finishes YOU! lol

@DigaMecR10 Haha, I wonder if someone will mod in a character swap for a certain part of the game further down the line!

@Robinsad If you want an action game to crap your pants to, it's easily 7 or 8. If you want a good story in the tradtion of the first game, it's easily a 0. It all depends on your expectations.

Imagine you go have a burger thats the best burger in the world. But it has cucumber in it which you can't stomach. Also there's no way to order it without. That burger, while technically fine, is an instant 0/10 for you.

@JapaneseSonic I get what you say but I don't get that representation thing. The "oh that dude is the same race/gender like me, now I can identify with him, it's like I am the hero"-thing I left behind before I hit elementary school.

I can identify with well written characters, regardless of color/attitude/orientation. I can't be alone can I?

@DigaMecR10 Yep, I'd have enjoyed a completely different set of people more as well I guess, then this story would've been easier to gut as well. Maybe have Joel or Ellie as Cameo in a cliffhanger ending hinting at Part III... building a TLOU universe.

But no I guess.

@DigaMecR10 No, not in this game, but in many others and movies too.

@nathanSF Great article. Sums up my impressions and opinion about the game perfectly.

@Kafkaesque Exactly my impression as well. That's what made Ellie so believable, loveable (in a fatherly way) even. The casual "oh by the way, that character just happens to be gay"-approach works much better, more authentically than "look, here, look, we've got a gay kiss, that means we're decent human beings. Look, have you seen it? It's stunning and brave!"-kind of approach!

@Panic_Attache If you bought it solely FOR the guitar picks (which would be insane, but still... ) that's a justified score!

@DigaMecR10 It seems to have worked for you and thats all fine. Personally I was just enthralled by the magic of that Journey Joel and Ellie had together. Would have come back for more. A stern father figure like Joel is in my opinion what many of us would have needed right now, even if it's just fictionally.

I can't stomach nihilistic and bleak at the moment - got enough of that in the news already!

That said I hope you didn't take personal offense by our discussion, which I enjoyed as very fruitful.

@Kafkaesque I always thought that the best way to not make everything about race, gender and sexual orientation is just to NOT make everything about race, gender and sexual orientation. I just don't care and frankly, I also believe that's of no one's business.

I also don't think that people like you want that kind of exposure. Most sane people just want to be left alone. The difference is, if I meet someone who has a sexual orientation that differs from mine, I don't care, because it's none of my business. They just happen to like something else. But if I play a game or watch a movie, and a fictional character has certain traits, I know someone put it there, deliberately, for a purpose and oftentimes, that purpose is only to put themselves on a podest, which I despise.

If it makes sense in the narrative, in the context of the story, I don't mind any characters skin color or sexual orientation.

@Fuzzymonkeyfunk There should be a "50%" trophy/achievement in every game just for that purpose, so people have at least played half of it themselves.

@Alpine021 Imagine you enjoy How I Met Your Mother. You like it for what it is. Suddenly with a new season, a bomb explodes in New York and from there on out everyone is just looking out for themselves, no more friends, everything is bleak and horrible. What you liked about "the gang" is gone.

Similar thing here. That's why people are disappointed. Different story than expected? Fine. Complete disrespect to what came before? Not so good.

@Killr-_ That's my impression as well. I didn't mind Ellie being a lesbian in the first game at all. It was handled delicately. Now in the second part, well... not so delicate.

@DigaMecR10 I'm glad you enjoyed it. I thought that many dialogues were off and people sometimes acted "out of character" especially in the end. Also, that theme is as old as mankind itself. I don't disagree that it looks and sounds stellar, no question about it. But - especially this has no multiplayer yet - it's a pure singleplayer game many people come to experience the story. So if the story is nonsensical or badly executed and doesn't pay respect to what came before, many people who come solely for that are disappointed and rightly so. False advertising of ND didn't help either.

I said multiple times that if you don't mind the complete change in direction of the story the game itself can still be enjoyed, if you have a strong stomach. I wanted more of what made the first one special, so I'm disappointed.

And I'm sincerly happy for anyone who can enjoy it without the feeling of a gutpunch!

@LiamCroft But calling people names that disagree with 10/10 is fine? Happens all over the place.

@80sGamer So you know nothing about the story yet. We can all agree on that it looks and sounds great.

@IronMike I've found that if you want somewhat genuine impression about the quality of a game find some independent youtuber you agree upon your most favorite games and go from there, or watch reaction videos and read reddits to make up your mind. The most passionate and also critical opinions about any given form of entertainment will come from the fandom itself. So check out those forums and sites.

@DigaMecR10 That some of us loved the first one and are disappointed because it's story is so vastly different to the first one, in quality, direction and execution doesn't cross your mind right? Everyone that disagrees with official opinions and narrative is a troll right?

@Weebleman Plenty of streamers have already finished it "live".

@Kdog No it's about destroying what made the first game great.

The bombing is justified.
All you people berating us that are disappointed with it don't have a clue, because you haven't played it through yet. Those that stay away from the game have seen mostly all the cutscenes already and that's why we're disappointed. This has nothing to do with hate.

Of course if all the official media outlets say it's a masterpiece, everyone else is wrong. Sounds legit.

After having seen a friend play it, read a whole bunch of non-0 user reviews on metacritic and watched lots of reaction videos on youtube I wonder how you can give this game a 10/10 and not even mention that what made the first game great is completely absent. Meaning the bond between Joel and Ellie, delicate narrative and a solid multiplayer. The game itself is a slight upgrade in gameplay mechanics and graphics, the sound is stellar as usual but besides thet the story is not only bleak torture porn, but also a disgrace to everyone who enjoyed the first game for that special bond between Ellie and Joel to the point where I and my friend where asking ourselves if Druckman went batshit Crazy. Even if you play the diversity card, this does nothing for diversity. It's stupid violence all over, telling the oldest story of them all that was already boring in the bible: violence begets violence, unless you break the circle. Fine. Ellie does. But at the cost of the player's closure. I feel like if you value what TLOU 1 was, and this is the reason why they even have so many pre-orders in the first place, this game is a 3/10, because it's a blatant insult to everyone who loved the first game for that fatherly, magic bond with Ellie and their development (Ellie hardening, Joel softening up, in the end meeting each other halfway). Also the ultra-violence is off-putting. The whole game feels like a kick in the stomach. Yes you will feel hatred and anger. Yes that's what Druckman wanted but honestly, in my opinion, he can shove it, without spit even. For everyone enjoying a moody, decent action game with ultra-violence without much care for its characters or the first game, it might still be a 7 or 8/10.

But a 10/10 on so many review sites, with no word about the blatant break in narrative and the disrespect for the characters that made the franchise what it was in the first place, that's just pathetic. Oh, and what went on with copyright-striking all those youtubers through a strawman lawfirm in INDIA because they were not even showing footage of the leaks just discussing that they didn't like what they saw is abysmal business practice. I've had enough of those righteaous developers and godlike figures so full of themselves they can't even hear themselves fart anymore like Druckman. Awful highschool-like writing, zero character development beyond the obvious, unneccessary torture porn, uneasy and unfullfilling to the end.

MY opinion. Not a hater.
Everyone who bought it, enjoy it, it's what you deserve.

@Neolit And I'd read it! Generally speaking that whole circle of violence is a dead horse to me, was old already when the bible was written (or summed up for that matter). Violence begets violence. There. I put the moral ofthe story in three words.

Besides that, what Joel and Ellie had going on was special. It tickled the protective father-bone in almost every male, regardless of age. Ellie was growing up and strong, she held her own, was one of my favourite female videogame heroines. She was vulnerable at first, but overcoming it, made her even tougher. I don't like broken-beyond-repair-characters because a) there's plenty of them in real life and b) it's a simple cliché.

Also I genuinely think that it's not a good idea to make your fans feel uncomfortable playing a game - which was Druckmans declared goal - when most of us, while still wanting an exciting narrative, ultimately want to "wind down" and get lost in a videogame world that's different to our real world. The real world is cruel enough.

Again. I'm curious to read "reviews" of pesky commoners!

@Crimson_Ridley Me too!
But... to push this further... if you knew a lot of your friends liked that chili, wouldn't you warn them about the sausage?!

Hehehe...

@starhops I get what you say, but arguing that people haven't played the game yet is a moot , when you haven't seen the leaks they have. I hope for those that avoided the spoilers, that they won't be disappointed.

@Crimson_Ridley I agree with you, but it's really simple. You go to a restaurant for their great chili. You eat it several times, then they announce they'll bring out a new chili. What you expect is a finer recipy, maybe some great homemade bread with it, you go there to eat, full expecting that joyful experience of their original chili, only upped a few notches.

Then you get sausage.

@Neolit This. Was hoping to get more of it in the sequel...

@Zach_99 Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. People were (and are) up in arms because they loved TLOU and TLOU II seems, according to the leaks, to disrespect what made TLOU special in every possible way. This was the outrage. Not that people have a general problem with same-sex relationships or similar themes. If you enjoyed TLOU too, for the special bond between Ellie and Joel and the narrative as a whole, you might as well be disappointed about what's coming for you and it doesn't make you a bigot then. But if you enjoy it, fine, I'm glad for you. Honestly. But for me, treasuring the first game in my heart, it was such a disappointment seeing the simple story (violence begets violence), convoluted narrative (out-of-order-flashbacks), the torture-porn level of brutality (I get it, it's postapocalyptic, but in this game it's really over the top, yes maybe I'm squeamish), the lack of choice in how things play out and the utter gut-wrenching scenes I saw (luckily) in the spoilers made me avoid this, even though I waited for it, like everyone else, for years.

Sincerly hope it lives up to your expectations man.

Im curious to see how the "new direction" and over-the-top torture porn-style violence will go down with the "common audience". This will be grounds for discussion for months to come.

@Wavey84 Again, all you say is true. Personally I've changed a lot since I started videogames on HD consoles with the Xbox360 back in the day (Oh that sweet sweet Need for Speed Most Wanted, lol). I just don't get wowed by graphics anymore. Like. At all. I get wowed by concepts, like "wow I can enter that building" or "what really, 25 billion stars that can be travelled to? Wow" or "So the environment is fully destructible? Cool!" - all of what I just described would wow me in 1080p, 1440p and probably in 4K too, but only, if it RUNS smoothly. That's why I kind of have a thing for pixel-style-games on my switch. They run all in sweet 60 fps, sure they may look like "garbage" to most, but I really don't care if the concept is fun!

Take something like Mario Kart for example and let's assume it's a game you enjoy. Would you enjoy it more if the resolution was x2 but otherwise the same game? Probably not, you'd probably take more screenshots here and there, marvel over them for a few minutes, and that's that. But imagine you HAD to play it in lower FPS. Terrible. Still same game, but terrible. Now imagine, the same game, in 120 FPS. WOW.

AND NOW imagine a completely new racing experience in Mario Kart, with new concepts, a track builder, track sharing, etc... wouldn't ALL of that be more "wow" than an up in resolution?

And this is exactly my problem with the next console generation. I loved BLOODBORNE but it looked sub par and didn't run great. I'd love to have it run in smooth 60fps or even more. If there were a PC version of it, you could easily have it just by throwing enough hardware at it, but on a console, you're "trapped" by whatever concept of "next gen" the devs follow.

Sorry for long post.
I already saw that we agree on this matter long ago, just couldn't hold my horses!