Scollurio

@AdamNovice Well put!

@Odin1985x I feel you.
As for everyone who's rather listening to an "official critic review" than user reviews, no matter how well worded, here's an official critic review that's listed on metacritic (and made the overall score drop from 95 to 94) that really words it nicely, without spoilers or offensive language WHY people might be disappointed or upset with the game:
https://culturedvultures.com/the-last-of-us-part-2-review/

@EthyTower Fully agree there.

@Crowley22g I do get all that, but where's the consequences for Abby? Part III?

@Chromeshift I did get the point. It's just not a pleasant story to play (and yes that's what Druckman set out to do). Ellie stopped the cycle, but it cost her everything. And irony, if she wouldn't have gone at all, Abby would have died.

And what you propose as the "moral of the story" doesn't affect Abby at all. She seems to be fine with all the madness going on. If she'd be more "human" maybe players could have related to her more.

@1_W1NG3D_4NG3L It will be curious to follow. Let's see if something comes from that rumor.

@Jacko11 I understand what you mean. But as you say, Part II had wonderful moments, so had Part I and I personally feel that we've got a delicately relationship and wonderfull narrative that was something unique (and mostly was until this day) traded for a petty revenge plot. Yes it might appear edgy, maybe a bit preachy at times and yes Druckman likes himself to be the next Kojima or Hitchcock, but at the end, it's a really simple story that uses most of it's emotional impact purely for shock value. But again, that's just my opinion.

And about the trailer, yes I agree that most trailers give away too much, but to even age Joel in the trailers and put him in place of another character, that's deceitful. They of course DID know that people would want more of Joel and Ellie, because they were the draw of the first game. I don't think a third game could have that draw with what remains of the cast at the end.

Many people based their buying decision on the trailers, and rightfully feel duped now. Again there is not much argueing about it all (even though i enjoy to do so in a polite manner). To me at least, that fatherly bond with Joel was something special we didn't get again until maybe the latest God of War. I enjoyed it a lot. The story now must feel "simple" and "run of the mill" to people that spend a lot of time reading, that have lots of material to compare to. Again, very subjective. But it still feels like a bad trade. Ellie and Joel also were complex characters. Abby is not. She's the "hurt chick" that's out on a revenge. You even see this in the game. The revenge thing gets to Ellie. She's clearly shaken by it all, even by her own actions. But Abby? Takes it like a pro and if it wasn't for Lev... think about Dina. No remorse. Just pure bloodlust.

To me getting your "babygirl" out of harms way no matter the cost (a cure was by far no sure bet and even if the sacrifice of Ellie would have brought forth a cure, who would have gotten access to it? The fireflies only? There'd be war about it and the world would still be a ***** hole. The virus on the other hand, was kind of an equalizer... if you want to see it that way) beats a buff girl holding a grudge for over 5 years to then just slaughter everyone mercilessly without remorse any day. Yes she likes dogs. Cute. Ellie likes Giraffes, so what? It's, like you say, an ugly world in TLOU and people die. Lots of people die. Many fathers die. I wonder where all the lines are of people waiting to get their personal vendettas against someone out there, because they lost someone.

Again. Subjectively, there was nothing remarkable about the second game at all. It's a story that's been told a thousand times (many times better) to me.

Loved the flashbacks. Wish those were the actual game.

@Razrye lol but that's not what happened.

Imagine you play Mario and you want to jump on the turtle - as he does. Instead the turtle kills Mario, for good, and then you are forced to play as the turtle for the rest of the game... it might be interesting in it's own rights, it might even be a fun experience to some, but most people came for Mario jumping on turtles!

@Oh_fiddlesticks I'd love another solution: like let's say at the halfway point of a game you plop a trophy that contains a one-time-code that's tied to your PSN account, which then you can use to write a "legit" review.

@Jacko11 I know what he said and TLOU's world was never a nice place to be. I'm not talking about the world itself. What I really disliked was the way the trailers were manipulative and how the story plays out in that it's not satisfying in any way to the player, also that you're forced to do things you despise as characters you don't like.

I do play horror games occassionally for enjoyment, so I'm fine with "ugly game worlds" - I just didn't like the particular way the game treated delicately crafted character-relationships and made you do despicable things with no choice. But again, it's all about tastes and opinions, and all should be able to be voiced.

*Edit: of course when I talk "palyers" I mean me. People might and obviously have enjoyed those sections.

@keihtg I actually do still like the Star Wars universe as such and found that ROGUE ONE was really solid and I loved the tide-over-ending. So yes, I'd be up for that. Keep the premise, the sith and jedi thing and do something fresh, maybe namedrop a skywalker here and there, and that's about it!

@Oh_fiddlesticks There are also plenty of those 10 point reviews on metacritics where you can clearly tell they are "copy and paste" and have also not played the game. So it really goes both ways. The "truth" I guess is in the middle. But as I said, Druckman wanted to create a divisive story and that's what he did. Success!

@Jacko11 I think to boil it down, what upsets people is that the game is made on purpose to make you feel uncomfortable. If something isn't a joy to play what point does it have to exist - at least that's how it works for most.

I don't think it's fair to call people "dumb" or that they didn't get the story just because you got something out of it they didn't. It's all really subjective, if it was so easy with opinions and sentiments, we'd long have a world-religion by now. But you see how these things are...

But yes I strongly agree, that such a petition is stupid. I just wonder how sales would be if TLOU Part III was to release in about 6 months time, just hypothetical.

@keihtg Yes really, it's on the table. I don't think it has much to do with fan outrage, just simply with poor business. No one buys toys from the new trilogy, not one of the new characters had close to as much charisma and lasting appeal than any of the old (I'd buy a shirtless Kilo statue though), their amusement park thingy is almost always empty. People just simply don't care. Kathleen Kennedy is up in arms against it but allegedly (again, I have this info from that youtuber) George Lucas will be involved too.

And so what, let them reboot it, how many Spiderman movies did we have in the past couple of years and it's basically always the same story. They will mostly only do reboots nowadays anyways, why not try to bring the once greaterst sci fi franchise on the planet back to it's former glory. I'd watch it...

@nessisonett People tried with Stephen King (understandably so) - but yeah, I agree. It's done. Let's move on.

@oldschool1987 Loved the flashbacks too - would pay for 20-hour DLC to actually PLAY only the flashbacks!

@thefirst It was Druckmans declared goal to make a game people are passionate about (one way or another) - he succeeded, gotta eat the heat he gets too, it's all free publicity as well and a great marketing stunt. I don't really think Druckman's feeling too much pressure, while arranging his GOTY awards in his head and counting his money. If you put something out there, that's divisive, no matter who you are, you gotta own up to the reaction. Simple.

@thefirst There's rumors that they will "undo" the latest Star Wars trilogy because of sales drops and fan backlash. It will be out "out of canon" by some timey-wimey-force-spacehole thing (that doomc*ck guy on youtube has some rumors on it). So basically yes, there are plans (in motion already, allegedly) to redo the last 3 Star Wars movies - Han and Luke will return too - no idea about Leia...

@keihtg Actually there is no difference, because who's to judge? If there's a restaurant selling the BEST pineapple pizza out there and you just can't stand pineapple, what good is it when everyone else but you loves it?

Things like this will always be subjective. I recognize that many people love the story in TLOU II - which is completely astounding to me, but it is what it is. I also love pineapple pizza btw!

@carlos82 How come it already had 4.000-something positive reviews a week before launch? And now "only" close to double that since it's released?

While I personally found the story of TLOU II to be bleak, lazy and a disgrace to everyone who fell in love with the bonding between Joel and Ellie in Part I I think such a petition is pointless. The game is made, didn't turn out like I hoped (and was led to believe) it would be. That's done. Life goes on.

More important than overall game lenght are to me:
Replayability (do I generally love the world and return for more, do multiple playthroughs make things more interesting?) and Pickup-And-Play-Capability, mostly management sims like Two Point Hospital and turn based games like Fire Emblem fall into this category. Things like Breath of the Wild fall into both. Being an adult oftentimes doesn't leave enough time (or attention span) to delve into games for hours on end.

Also, what I absolutely don't like is FILLER content just to bolster the playtime. A game can be just as good at 20 hours played as others are with 60 hours played.

@AdamNovice Engagement = Traffic = Cash.

@get2sammyb Even in your update you didn't even HINT at the possibility that people are upset because the characters, narrative and the bond they fell in love with in the first game cannnot be had in that sense in the second game? So you're saying that outrage is COMPLETELY unjustified and every negative review is trolling? Then you bring up a completely stupid rumour I haven't even heard about before? Don't you think that your article is very onesided?

I also don't get the people that spoil it for others on purpose or start the namecalling etc... but do you really not see ANY reason people could be MADLY disappointed with TLOU II?

Weird. :/

Good memories! Perfect game.

@1_W1NG3D_4NG3L You bring up a good point. I remember times when characters were just characters and that was it. A good movie/game was judged as such and nothing more. As I said before I firmly believe the best thing to not make everything about race/sex/gender is to just not make it about race/sex/gender.

But identity politics is obsessed with sexuality for example. Why. What difference does it make? I don't want to know, nor care what you're doing in the bedroom. Imagine we'd have marches for every sexual fetish and orientation out there. Why? Just enjoy what you like (with consent of everyone involved) and that's that.

Also I don't like Abby - NOT because of her sexuality/gender (I'm not really sure on anything about it) it's just that I hate her as a character because of her actions and ND put this in the game to HATE HER on purpose, making her a controversial character is only fueling the hatred online when discussing the game, which was all planned by ND and this just stinks. It's an ideology trap. Make a crappy character but no one dares to say it because she's controversial. If you MAKE me hate Abby and I speak out on it, it's because YOU made her an awful character that does awful things, I didn't have a whole game worth of adventuring so she could grow on me or her actions seem justified (like with Ellie and Joel).
She is just poorly written and a disgraceful human being by actions. I don't give a flying wet dog about what she is, why she is sad (she's not the only one who lost someone in this post apocalyptic hell world) or HOW she does "it". It's YOU ND who is obsessed with such things.

No normal adult human being is, except for fear of getting called out or cancelled.

ALL-female reboots of movies don't do much good for "whatever cause" - as we had never only all-male movies. Most of them stink but if you say it, you're a misogynist. But even plenty of females despise movie efforts like "Ghostbusters 2016". What then? Also misogynist? Sure!

Also "erasing" history because politics and ideologies change is wrong, because history is there to learn from it, by eradicating it, future generations have no point of reference. This already happened countless of times in our history and it ALWAYS ended bad.

People change. Times change. No need to erase or change anything after the fact.

Take it for what it was/is in it's timely context and there's lots to be learned from history. Just move on, making things better. But discussion and opinion NEEDS to stay FREE at all costs. The way into tyranny is paved with good intentions.

@Chucklepie More generally speaking the problems arise if anything goes to an extreme and/or something or someone has too much control. Like corporations for example and of course any sort (not only liberal, not only rightwing) of ideology that goes unchecked for too long. What we need is open, honest authentic discourse. Hard to find these days.

@verynaughtyboy Jordan Peterson is the father many of us would have needed. Very smart man indeed.

As for the society itself, I think you always have a huge clot of actually decent and nice human beings, then you have the extremes in all spectrums. You just can't argue with them. I think it's the same with the reviews.

MOST people will be genuinely and rightly so pissed because they were lead to believe to get a certain experience and then only found out that they get something completely different. And this doesn't mean any gender or sexual orientation issue. Just how the story plays out and what kind of adventure you're getting.

Then you have the minority of haters that just want to tear everything down, but you get them with everything. And those few % paint a crap picture for all the rest. Same with the protests. Protesting against police violence with violence seems legit right? But most protesters are peaceful.

In the end it's a videogame that has been pushed on the wave of it's hype but then didn't deliver on what made the first one great. The world keeps spinning. Far more concerning are the circumstances surrounding it, the willingness of certain people to verbally attack and insult people online at the first sign of a differing opinion, how ND dealt with the leaks and maybe (we don't know for sure) how media outlets might be afraid of saying something negative about a game that's no better or worse than many others in most regards, only to not be labeled so-and-so-ic.

When I was younger I always wondered how people in the 1930s could be so upwound for an ideology or a common cause that they'd be "on board" with what happened next. I now understand how easily people are offended and disturbingly emotional. Give them a purpose, a direction to march a stone to throw and off they go. I don't mind differing opnions, if communicated calmly there's often lots to learn for everyone involved. Wish people would realize this more.

As for the reviews, I'd have wished for a certain and honest hint that, without spoiling too much, it is playing out "VASTLY" different than the first game or something like that.

@Matroska Thank you, voice of reason.

@verynaughtyboy I think huge parts of gaming press are "sensible" to not critisize (even if it would be justified) a game that has ANY sort of "non-white-male" character in it's main cast from fear to be called out as being anti-alphabet-people. More so, than trying to pander to this crown. I think it's of fear losing access to early review copies and having to endure a ***** storm or getting cancelled.

I still firmly believe ANYONE should be able to voice his concern about a certain game/movie/song/media and be able to say "no, this sucks" for valid reasons, no matter which kind of people are depicted or involved.

Some things just suck. I've not yet seen a movie (in recent memory) where I thought "this movie is great/bad because actor/actress a/b is gay/asian/black/white... whatever". If the story is good and the actor/actress can carry it, yay - otherways nay!

So simple really.
That gender/race-obsession is getting disturbing, but this time, it's coming from the hard left.

@naruball If you're so set against slavery I'am sure you're not using any upstreet clothing brands, smartphones or other electronic devices, when it's (or should be) common knowledge that huge parts of production in south-east-asia, mainland china and other developing or heavily industrialized countries is bordering on slave work, judging by our standards.

Don't get me wrong, the world is truly an awful place but one should at least be conscious to the harm one's own existance causes by means of globalism and choosing-with-your-wallet, even though there are no bad intentions. But then calling others supportive of slavery well... that's a bit off I think.

No offense.

@Arnna I see your acceptance and tolerance towards people that disagree with you right there. Stunning and brave, really. You know what people like you just don't get?

a) everyone's opressed in one way or another
b) opressing the opressor doesn't solve the problem of opression

It's so simple really. If you despise the behavior of a minority of people (and it IS the minority) of a society you shouldn't fight them by employing the exact same behavior. It's a lesson well socialized children learn in kindergarden really. Or with their parents. If they are still around.

There is no "reverse-ISM" - let's hate on straight white males so that's helping all gay females of color. That's not how it works. Unfortunately there is little point in trying to argue in a positive and constrictive way with someone who's mindset is so carved into stone.

@ALH I don't care one way or another. No one's special because of the bodily openings they prefer to explore. What's next? Categorizing people by the face they make while taking a dump?

It's none of anyones business and Ellie was a well written character, heck if she was in love with a pet dog I wouldn't have cared if the game (the first one) otherwise stayed the same.

@Arnna Ah there she is, the internet's most polite and intelligent person. Your urge to attack people that don't fit your opinion just shows everyone around you your true color. So much hate yet it's people like you that call others haters.

I don't like the direction of the game. Many others also dislike it. So what now? Nothing. Opinions voiced. Calm down.

@JapaneseSonic Again I don‘t care about other people’s sexuality - as long as it’s not harmful to anyone involved - the folks wanting to make everything less racist and less sexist are the biggest sexists and racists themselves. I just simply don’t care whom you like to do how in your spare time or if you sit down or stand when peeing, or throw a cartwheel. There’s plenty of female, gay, mixed race heroes in fiction like Videogames and movies. If the story/gameplay is good - it’s good. I’d the Game or movie is trash, it’s trash and sometimes it happens to have a female/mixed race/gay hero and sometimes not. People are not special - either way - based on their mingling habits. Every single time a work of fiction succeeds or fails it has to do with the quality of it - not with the race or sexual orientation of its protagonists. But far left people like to use it as an excuse for a monetary failure over and over again. This is actually quite dishonest and NOT serving the gay community ok any way. And now please leave me alone accusing me of homophobia when the only phobia I have is „ruining-games-I-used-to-love-by-complete-disrespect-to-legacy-characters“- phobia!

@Captain_Toad 100% agreed.

@Dynamq What's the difference between an "official" and a "fan" opinion then?

@Akurusu I fear that's the thing with every kind of community and/or sport club anywhere in the world. People love to get into each others face for whatever they have an interest in.

@Orochilocka Thank you for your impressions mate! The SJW stuff might bother some, but Ellie was always gay and that was fine, because she was a well realized character, delicately written. During the course of the first game the player would bond A LOT with Joel and Ellie, if you missed out on that you will not be quite able to understand why people are so upset. It was something special between them.

I agree with you about graphics, sounds, combat (even though it didn't advance much from the first game, but it was good already back then). The jaw dropping scene is what upset most people. Because it's so unexpected and the trailers made it look like... uhm... like that scene didn't or couldn't happen. Also it seems like it was unneccessary cruel. But that's of course subjective.

PS5 version will come for sure, was the same with the first game, came out at the end of PS3 era, PS4 remaster not too long afterwards. The first game also was quite linear, personally I didn't mind the "guided narrative" - quite to the contrary, I always get bored in games like Skyrim, retrieving some meaningless heirloom of some frogfaced NPC for the umptienth time or being distracted from the main quest for too long, I actually forget what everythign was about!

I'm glad you're enjoying it though. Taken on it's own TLOU II has it's qualities, just for many who fell in love with the intricacies of the first one it fell short of what made it special in the first place. I know what's coming next for you and I am really curious how you will stomach it all and if you can keep engaged with the combat and narrative until the end!

Happily looking forwards your next update!

G'night mate!

Ok, this is impressive.

@WallyWest I get this. No worries!

@Flaming_Kaiser Why insult me, I didn't post any spoilers.

@WallyWest I didn't rant, only stating that I'm disappointed because the trailers and the leadup made me believe the game is more in the vein of the first one. Also I stated multiple times that I watched a friend play for hours and watched gameplay segments and cutscenes (without bias or commentary) on Youtube.

"People like you!" - you don't know me, don't draw assumptions, please.

In a way, it's sweet. Lovely.

@1_W1NG3D_4NG3L If anything is ruind, I'll make sure it's not because of me tripping over some words!
I sincerely hope you enjoy it!

@1_W1NG3D_4NG3L sorry didn't realize, will edit!

@Cloud39472 All is good. We can kindly disagree. I'd love to hear your take on it once you're further in. I've watched a friend play 5 hours or so, and watched another 10 hours of gameplay/cutscenes and plenty of reviews. So you know, where I'm coming from. If I ticked you off, I also apologize.

@Orochilocka Thank you, I'd love that!

@Cloud39472 So much hate. I don't mind a different adventure, I thought I'd have it with the characters I grew to love though. What I expect from you? Adult behaviour. Nothing more, don't worry.

@Murray Hope you like it!