thedevilsjester

@blacklivesmatter Have you seen Digital Foundry's review of the PS5 backward compatibility? Watch that, they came away impressed.

The TL;DR, its damn near identical to that on the XSX, in some cases a little better, some cases a little worse; but overall pretty much the same (with the obvious lack of Generation 7 and earlier titles)

@AJDarkstar I think you misunderstand me. Making a PS4 patch that doesn't come to the PS4 version when played on the PS4 but comes to the PS4 version when played on the PS5 (especially when you take into account using the same external HDD you use on the PS4 with the PS5) is not likely to happen; but even if it did (which I don't think makes any sense logistically), we should NOT call it a PS5 patch (because that has pretty specific expectations); but instead a "PS5 exclusive PS4 patch"

My guess is that, for these few situations, the PS4 game gets a patch (that applies to the PS4 Pro) that adds a new "unlocked" or "quality" mode, that is still selectable on the PS4 Pro.

(I am not trying to argue with you, just explain what I think is more or less likely based on the effort that it would take to make it work for the very few titles that would work in this way). We won't really know until we get it in our own hands.

@kabal82 Do you have a source for saying a XO -> XSX upgrade doesn't require recertification but PS4 -> PS5 does or are you just guessing? (I am not saying you are wrong; just that if its true I would like to know from a reliable source)

Either way, "down the line" no one is going to care. BC on both systems makes old games play amazingly well (see DF videos on both systems), and most games are not going to have direct upgrades to the next generation (on either console), so at worst its a small issue during a small time frame.

@AJDarkstar That doesn't mean that its a PS5 exclusive patch. A PS4 game cannot directly take advantage of any PS5 features or hardware. To do so it would need to be recompiled with the PS5 SDK toolchain (and using PS5 versions of 3rd party libraries), effectively making it a PS5 upgrade patch.

With "unlocked" modes, or modes that don't quite reach their full potential on the PS4/PS4 Pro, they will obviously indirectly benefit from the CPU/GPU performance improvements (as we have seen in the DF videos)

I think we are saying the same thing, but have a few details different. Calling it a PS5 patch if its just patching the PS4 game (and not making it a PS5 game) is misleading; and said patch would still apply to the original PS4 title; even if its usefulness would be limited.

@thefourfoldroot I think the big difference is that DF is not coming from the perspective of someone "Just playing" the game, they have analysis tools that tell a story that you can't always get by feel. For example I really can't tell much of a difference between 30 and 60 fps, or 1080p and 4k, so if I were to judge the BC mode, it would probably be underwhelming.

I really hope they fix the BC software for the AC games in a future (system) patch because I didn't platinum Syndicate and was planning on finishing it up before I tackle the new AC game.

@AJDarkstar I don't disagree that its a PS4 patch, but I don't think the patch is exclusive to the PS4 game on the PS5. That would require an extra level of logistics out of each console specifically for the few games that might want to do that. It doesn't seem like a reasonable approach when that patch can be applied to the PS4 version on both systems as an additional mode, even if they have to make it clear that the PS4 Pro might not make the best out of the mode.

@AJDarkstar The statement about them making PS4 patches that are exclusive to the PS5. Not PS5 patches for PS4 games (which makes it a PS5 game). This doesn't make any sense, not only logistically, but also knowing how the various SDKs work it doesn't make any sense. So do you know of a reliable source that actually states, clearly, that that's what they are doing? I can't say with 100% certainty that it's not happening like that, but I can make a pretty good educated guess, so if you know of an actual report on this it would surely clear things up.

@AJDarkstar I don't think this is true at all, do you have a source?

@Razrye888 I think PushSquare does a pretty good job of just reporting it as it is, and sometimes that isn't positive and we have to take the good with the bad. It does no one any good to put their fingers in their ears and pretend like everything is always perfect.

@get2sammyb Then that is NOT a PS5 patch or upgrade as the title suggests.

@get2sammyb I don't think that's how it works at all. You don't have PS5 specific logic in a PS4 game. At best you provide an uncapped/dynamic resolution PS4 Pro experience that is able to stretch its legs better on the PS5; but lets not confuse that for an actual PS5 upgrade.

@get2sammyb Since PSVR doesn't work on PS5 titles (or PS4 titles with PS5 upgrades) then this would have zero impact on them.

It might impact PS4 games that get "unlocked" framerates on the PS4 Pro or similar, but those not legit PS5 "upgrade" patches, they just happen to work better on the PS5 than the PS4.

@Weebleman The patch (as all of these are) would be a PS5 version specific patch, not a PS4 version patch, so that isn't really a viable excuse since the PS4 version (even if playing on the PS5) would remain untouched by these changes.

@Medic_Alert I can't say that I have ever had that problem. I pick up a game, play it, finish it (...usually), and move to another game. With rare exceptions (which is why I end up having to delete a game or two towards mid generation). Granted I do not play multi-player games, so that might change things a bit.

@ShootMePlease Thats not an option because while those of us that visit these forums would have no problem; it would certainly confuse the masses and create a lot more confusion when buying a drive. (I like the idea though!)

@Medic_Alert Yeah I don't get it. I buy a lot of games, but its not usually till around mid to late generation when I get to the point that I have enough un-finished games (that I swear I will finish one day) sitting around on HDD to be at the point where I have to make a sacrifice and delete a game I haven't played in months. Maybe I don't care as much about game deletion because I use physical media and can reinstall it in minutes? Regardless I doubt I will expand the PS5 for at least two or more years, and we can still use an external drive to transfer if you need.

@SpicyTacos101 If you are asking the question: "Is X amount of money not enough for Y company" then the answer will always and unequivocally be: No, it's not.

That being said, there are other ways to get a larger return on investment; for example: player good will and word of mouth can often translate into more sales over a longer period of time, and potentially transfer into future projects (CDPR is a good example of this); but the quick and easy way is microtransactions.

@lcipri I just don't understand it, especially when most of the outfits are above and beyond immersion breaking. I can understand it for online multiplayer match based games, of course, but single player story games? Does not compute.

I am the kind of player that doesn't ever change the outfit of my character throughout play, free or paid. Most of this is because I enjoy the original outfit the best; but also because it's often immersion breaking.

So paying money for the privilege? As you said, nonsense.

@thefourfoldroot I guess the question is, if you are not familiar enough with gaming to recognize the Spider-man game, the term PS5, what the PS5 looks like, or the Playstation logo, are you actually the target market for these advertisings?

@JoshuaTChandler You need a native 120 hz.

With "Effective 120 hz" the game will still play at 60 hz, but then the TV (not the console) will try and "smooth" motion (very poorly) simulating 120 hz.

A very important distinction to make when getting a TV that supports 120 hz, probably the most important is that a LOT of TV manufacturers mislead you into thinking its a 120 hz TV when its not. Avoid TV's that use "Effective Rate" or "Motion Rate" (or similar) terms. These are not the numbers you are looking for; and you will be very disappointed.

@Perryg92 Don't worry. Consumer friendly is a loaded term that has no actual objective meaning. It's typically used by people that have an agenda and want to push it.

What is consumer friendly to one, is anti-consumer to another, it all depends on your angle and what is most important to you as a consumer.

The PS4 (and PS3) controller have dozens of different companies that provide after market shell replacements. I would wager that the PS5 controller will be no different.

Personally, I think the two PS4 titles are great if you are one of the few that wants to play them and haven't yet. Unfortunately the first PS5 title, Bugsnax is just disappointing to say the least.

@deathaxe Why didn't you think we would get a PS5 game on PS+ for 6-12 months? We got them on day one with the PS4.

You could argue that there is less need (with PS5 being backwards compatible) but I would argue that Sony wants you to move to the PS5 ASAP, and giving existing PS+ members (most of which are on the PS4) "free" titles that they will have to buy a PS5 to play, gives more incentive to pick up a PS5 as soon as possible.

Even if someone doesn't get a new console for 6-12 months because of stock issues, by the end of 6-12 months they will have a large selection of PS5 PS+ titles already, making the PS5 better value out of the box than it would have been.

@huyi While that may be true, it also may be because of quality issues. They (the website in question) have said that the face places were designed based on dimensions released by Sony. That is already a red flag and it tells me that they don't actually have a PS5 to even test whether or not these face plates fit. Selling a product that you don't know will work is bound to have serious quality issues and it could be simply that Sony wants to avoid that image.

Personally I am hoping for some vinyl skins (clear matte ideally) for just the center, to cover up that awful glossy section.

@__jamiie Yeah, it depends on interpretation, I didn't see it as a dig, I saw it as Sony explaining why they are not going to go out and buy up studios just to counter Microsofts acquisitions because all of the internet seemed to be trying to goad both sides into an an acquisition fight.

@__jamiie In the same interview he made that comment, he ALSO said: that they will still "bolster our in-house capability with selective mergers and acquisitions." (direct quote). Their focus is not on acquisitions, but they will still make them where it makes sense.

As for the generations thing, there is no excuse for that. They could easily have said that they believe in generations, but also do not want to leave the last generation behind out of the gate. Instead they pretended like it was black and white at launch.

@__jamiie Sony has never made this claim, nor have fans made this claim in their stead.

I assume this is a comment based around the more recent talk of game studio acquisitions? Putting aside the fact that this is a completely separate market, run by completely separate people, making their own independent choices; Sony specifically stated in their most recent interview where they talk about wanting to grow studios organically, that they will still "bolster our in-house capability with selective mergers and acquisitions."

@Robinsad PS VR has sold 5 million units. Not all of those are going to upgrade to PS5 at launch. and even the ones that do, not all of them are going to care about bringing last generations headset to the PS5, so adding in a piece of technology in every box (for how long?) when the vast majority are going to throw them out, is not only a huge waste of money, it would also generate millions of units of e-waste.

That being said, I realize that this is not an ideal situation. They could have made this process smoother, and potentially started it much earlier to make sure it wasn't a mad rush to get one before the launch.

@LemonHaze What on earth are you even talking about? As a Plex user for many years I have tried to explain to you what Plex is because you seem to be confused about that. I have not tried to attack you in any fashion. In fact I believe its an easy mistake to make for someone going into Plex thinking its supposed to be a streaming service now that they added the movies and shows to it.

I don't actually think you have read any of my posts, so I am certainly wasting my time trying to explain it to you, since you don't seem to care about what the actual truth is and want to continue to spin your narrative.

@LemonHaze I think you are the one that is confused. I don't need to google Plex I have used it for many years and it's just absolutely amazing. Nothing else even comes close.

Plex is a media player that uses your own movies and TV shows, and puts a really nice UI on top of it and allows you access to all your media (the media you already own) from almost any internet connected device, anywhere in the world..

My guess is that you didn't use Plex to serve up your own media, and just logged in to the client expecting it to be like Netflix, saw an included selection of terrible movies and shows, and assumed that that's what Plex is. It's not. That's a recent (and in my opinion, unwanted) addition to Plex.

Plex is for those that own hundreds of movies and shows and want to have a Netflix-like media player to play them. It is only as good as the media you add to it, and you can add anything.

It's an easy mistake to make, I hope this clears things up for you.

@Dezzy70 to clarify a bit more of what @NDL08 said. There is no next-gen version. There is only a current-gen version.

Later (sometime in 2021) they will have an update for PS5/XSX. For now, if you buy the launch release, its going to be played as a BC title until that update arrives.

@MemSec I have a lot of nostalgia for all of the FF games. I played them all (from the first) as they came out (with the exception of the non-US released ones that I couldn't play until many years later on emulators). For IX it all depends on what you want out of a game I guess. I think IX had a great story, and some pretty enjoyable classic combat, but I heavily dislike the art theme and abhor the comedic characters (Steiner and Quen).

As for FFXIV it was only great (prior to Heavensward) IF you played the original 1.0 and had that story connection to bring you through. Heavensward and on though, its easily the best MMO and has some pretty enjoyable story writing and game mechanics. Unfortunately the MMO mission design (for the core game) is still there, so if you don't like that, you still won't like FFXIV.

@MemSec To be clear I said X-2 (not XIII-2); I never did understand the general like for IX as it is easily at the very bottom of my FF list (even below MQ and XIII-3)

XII was fun (the combat system was great), though the story didn't really have that punch that FF games are known for. They did return it Ivalice quite a bit in FFXIV.

I love Final Fantasy games, more than any other game series; but the theme of this one just doesn't do anything for me. I really hope it finds its own thematic identity, and that its more unique than it looked in the trailer.

@MemSec I love XIII and really enjoyed II. (I also love XII). My worst two would be IX and X-2 (or MQ if we count non-main line games too).

@Xaessya Nope, its actually something Miyamoto said (though there is debate about the exact wording) during the N64 era. He did give a followup during the WiiU era to clarify in "I didn’t mean to say a bad game is always bad, what I meant to say is if you release a game in a bad state you will always regret it"

@oldschool1987 I don't think thats true. I would have to double check the unboxing videos; but it doesn't make sense from their statement and from logical reasoning: including a unique adapter in the box for everyone that is only usable for a very small subset of players is not only not cost effective, but is a considerable amount of waste.

@Weebleman I think you will have to wait until post-launch for information about this.

@Xaessya
That quote comes from the early console days (N64 IIRC) where games were fire-and-forget. No patching, no ability to update the game over time. It has no meaning in the modern gaming world (except) for those of us that care about playing these games a decade or two later when the update servers may no longer be operational, and what is on the disc is what you get.

@NEStalgia 12 hours (for the overall time span) makes sense actually, because not all stores launched them at the same time, some site were broken and launched them many hours later (like Amazon) and others launched them the next day (like Sams Club).

@Snake87 @Enuo @KeldorTheCursed I think thats the situation that makes things worse this generation. Having a pre-order but not knowing if it will honored at all is terrible. I think its worse for anyone that managed to squeeze in a pre-order by constantly refreshing and trying to check-out; because you might have slipped through a crack in the ordering system, and don't actually have one allotted to you when stock arrives.

All of these stores should do a double check of their pre-orders based on their expected stock and send out confirmations.

@LordSteev I understand, and if there was no PS5 version to look forward to, I would be in the same boat. The fact that they are making a PS5 version is just enough reason to let me hold off and work on my backlog some.

@Jayofmaya It has already gone gold, which means the version that will be pressed to the discs and uploaded to the servers, already exists. Any work done after that is a patch.

@LordSteev Trust me, I don't have that kind of restraint; what I have is a backlog that I want to finish, so if I bought this on day one (PS4), I wouldn't be able to enjoy it fully for 6+ months, at which time the next-gen version should be available. If I didn't have that backlog, I would not be able to resist.

@2cents This isn't a delay of the PS5 / Series X version, thats scheduled for some unknown (not-announced) time in 2021. This is a delay strictly for the current generation.

@LordSteev If by day one you mean day one when the PS5 version launches, absolutely and without hesitation.

@God_of_Nowt I know that ~$65k (USD) is a pretty common entry-level wage for software engineers in the US. As I said, I don't know about software engineers in the game development industry; but I would be surprised if it was lower than that (though I don't claim to have any first hand knowledge in that sector). I don't know how much that is in the UK, ~£50k?

@God_of_Nowt Gotcha, yeah I tend to only think of engineers, but you are right, artists, designers, composers, etc... come nowhere near making that much at that level, and depending on the ratio will certainly lower the average.

@God_of_Nowt I don't know about game developers specifically, but I do know about software engineers in general, and the lower end is ~$65k USD, for those fresh out of college with little to no experience, and it only goes up from there.

A quick search on glassdoor for game developer shows an average (at a glance) of about $75k-$100k USD.

@AJDarkstar Your PS5 launch day game was going to be a PS4 game that doesn't have a PS5 specific update? Granted its going to look good on any platform, I am going to wait until there they update it for the PS5 (and for me personally, release a PS5 retail copy)

@deathaxe I don't use PSNow. I don't have any interest at all in game streaming, even as a path to BC.

@NEStalgia Yeah, my (owned) console backlog isn't quite as big as that (a couple dozen, tops), but there are many, many, games I could still add to that backlog. I could easily make it through half of this next generation only playing PS4 games and have no regrets. I would love to include PS3 on that list, but its so sluggish, that I hate hooking the thing up (my Kingdom for PS3 support on PS5!)