thedevilsjester

@LiterallyDoNotCare Casuals don't buy single player games? Thats absurd. Casuals buy single player games just as often (if not more often) than non-casuals. Of everyone I know with a PS4 (IRL), other than me, they are all what I would classify as casual gamers (they play very irregularly, don't buy many games, don't play for long stretches of time, etc...), and all but one play only single player games exclusively. (Or play only the single player campaign of multiplayer games)

To muddy the waters even more, I am as far from casual as they come, and due to an ever growing backlog, I didn't even get to GoW until ~6 months ago (and Horizon Zero Dawn right before that, and I just finished Spiderman last month). My backlog is so long that even the best of games have to wait their place in line.

@LiterallyDoNotCare GoW sold ~10 million copies in its first two months (making it one of the best selling PS4 games of all time). To sell that many for GoW2 on PS5 only would need literally a 75-100% adoption rate which is astronomical and unheard of. The only titles that ever come close to 50% even are Nintendo first party titles, and thats only because people (generally) buy Nintendo hardware specifically for those games.

As for casuals, thats a pretty narrow view. Of everyone I know that owns GoW on the PS4 (IRL), I am the only one that I wouldn't consider a casual gamer. I still have multiple friends that have yet to finish it, but have owned it for a quite awhile. I think "casuals", or even those that can't get ahold of a launch (window) PS5 or can't afford one just yet, or just don't have enough reasons to upgrade (a couple exclusives isn't incentive for many) account for a larger number of purchases than you give them credit for.

Don't get me wrong, I want them to make it PS5 only. That would make me very happy indeed; but I understand the reality of the early generation titles and as an early adopter, am willing to deal with that until a critical mass has migrated over to the PS5.

@Juanalf When someone doesn't agree with your opinion, they like to take the stance that you are just complaining (but when they have an opinion, it should be considered seriously).

This list, hits the nail on the head. Its the exact list I would have made if asked. Please improve these things Sony!

@Splat Like nearly every other console launch in history from the 5th generation on? There are always more people that want them, than can get them on launch day, and it almost always levels out a few months later. This generation (because of COVID) has been hit particularly hard and the scalper bots have gotten particularly resourceful. That's across the board, for every major platform, from PS5, to XSX/S, to Switch, to even PC GPUs, and more.

@NEStalgia I understand, but thats not really their message. If you watched the Mark Cerny presentation he talks about the issue, and again the TL;DR is that they did the math, and to keep initial costs down for consumers (presumably to avoid another PS3 launch); they decided that 825 was a good start and are working on ways to expand that. From what I gather, the ability to move PS5 games to an external drive did exist, and some early testers saw it in action; but it was not present on the later review units (which probably had the official build of the OS). Its just a feature that is not available day one (I would guess they ran into bugs that they need to fix)

@skynettt that doesn't make much sense in this case because Sony isn't selling you the storage like Microsoft is. You can buy the storage from (theoretically) any SSD manufacturer that makes one fast enough.

@sketchturner The idea for the average consumer is that you will rotate out a handful that you are currently playing (with the odd multiplayer that sticks around for awhile) not try and keep your entire library installed.

If I put all the games I own on my PS4, sure it would take many TB's; but I am never going to play 90% of them again, and the 10% that I might will only take a few minutes to install (less on the PS5); so I doubt I will ever fill up 825 (667); unless games start averaging 150+.

@NEStalgia
"I don't get giving 825 instead of 1TB"
There is a technical reason for that. Cerny touches on it in his presentation:
See: https://youtu.be/ph8LyNIT9sg?t=932

The TL;DR is that there are technical reasons that the 12 channel interface they use, to get the target speed, most naturally pairs with a certain size multiplier and the best fit considering that is 825 GB.

@TrolleyProblems Its attach rate across all titles, so that ~10 includes indies and smaller titles as well, not just huge AAA titles.

To be fair, I don't know how PS+ titles or F2P titles factor into this; which could inflate it a bit as far as install size goes; but I am pretty certain that Sony has the metrics for what the average player uses and is able to adjust based on that.

Anecdotally, I have played hundreds of PS3/PS4 games and have only had to delete a title to make room every now and then; and I don't know anyone in real life that actually runs into this problem. I know there are those that do, there are edge cases (large families, single shared console), and people that want to keep their entire library installed at all times; but these are edge cases and will be addressed via expanded storage and/or game transfers (hopefully sooner rather than later).

@TrolleyProblems
Actually it's designed to handle the average use case, not the least or most edge cases. The average attach rate on the PS3 (and even the PS4) last I checked was under 10 games per console (and thats not all AAA).

So assuming the average player leaves all of their games installed all at the same time (not likely the average use-case but I don't have telemetry to determine this; Sony probably does) then if you have enough space for the average user, (maybe with a little head-room), then you are good.

@art_of_the_kill While I agree with the sentiment, it doesn't make financial sense.

Let's imagine GoW2 releases in the first half of 2021. They could target the ~20 million install base of the PS5, or ~120 million install base of the PS4. As much as I hate the reality and wish developers would abandon the last gen platforms immediately, it doesn't make sense to pour that kind of money down the drain if there is the possibility of targeting both.

@huyi The PS3 and PS4 browsers were garbage, slow, and controlling them with a controller was painful. I don't know anyone that actually used it (although I am sure there are some).

@KnightRider1982 You can easily block all ads and telemetry to all devices connected to your home network (including your home consoles) by setting up Pi-Hole. There are a few things it doesn't block because the ads and content are served from the same domain (like YouTube ads) but for 99.9% of cases, its amazing.

The colors helped identify the buttons during QTE's. You can identify them just by shape, or just by color (or direction, like some games did), but the more information you have, the faster you can process it and and choose the right button. I will miss these, and will be on the look out for after market mods.

I would wager the reason this feature is disabled, as well as not allowing expansion right now, is to limit the launch issues (that all new devices tend to have) to the actual PS5 hardware/software. Once we have gotten beyond the launch window, I expect features like these to be unlocked.

@Menchi Do you know what that raw speed requirement is? They have never announced that as far as I can tell. They did say it would have to be considerably more than the 5.5 G/s that the PS5 drive has because the PS5 drive has 6 levels of priority vs the 1-2 levels that existing SSD's have, and that this would have to be worked around in software so the drive would need to be faster to compensate.

@InvaderJim While thats true; and its an important detail, it should be noted that they also make it clear that they prefer the experience on the PS5 because the locked 60 at a checker-boarded 4k trumps a fluctuating frame-rate at native 4k.

@blacklivesmatter Have you seen Digital Foundry's review of the PS5 backward compatibility? Watch that, they came away impressed.

The TL;DR, its damn near identical to that on the XSX, in some cases a little better, some cases a little worse; but overall pretty much the same (with the obvious lack of Generation 7 and earlier titles)

@AJDarkstar I think you misunderstand me. Making a PS4 patch that doesn't come to the PS4 version when played on the PS4 but comes to the PS4 version when played on the PS5 (especially when you take into account using the same external HDD you use on the PS4 with the PS5) is not likely to happen; but even if it did (which I don't think makes any sense logistically), we should NOT call it a PS5 patch (because that has pretty specific expectations); but instead a "PS5 exclusive PS4 patch"

My guess is that, for these few situations, the PS4 game gets a patch (that applies to the PS4 Pro) that adds a new "unlocked" or "quality" mode, that is still selectable on the PS4 Pro.

(I am not trying to argue with you, just explain what I think is more or less likely based on the effort that it would take to make it work for the very few titles that would work in this way). We won't really know until we get it in our own hands.

@kabal82 Do you have a source for saying a XO -> XSX upgrade doesn't require recertification but PS4 -> PS5 does or are you just guessing? (I am not saying you are wrong; just that if its true I would like to know from a reliable source)

Either way, "down the line" no one is going to care. BC on both systems makes old games play amazingly well (see DF videos on both systems), and most games are not going to have direct upgrades to the next generation (on either console), so at worst its a small issue during a small time frame.

@AJDarkstar That doesn't mean that its a PS5 exclusive patch. A PS4 game cannot directly take advantage of any PS5 features or hardware. To do so it would need to be recompiled with the PS5 SDK toolchain (and using PS5 versions of 3rd party libraries), effectively making it a PS5 upgrade patch.

With "unlocked" modes, or modes that don't quite reach their full potential on the PS4/PS4 Pro, they will obviously indirectly benefit from the CPU/GPU performance improvements (as we have seen in the DF videos)

I think we are saying the same thing, but have a few details different. Calling it a PS5 patch if its just patching the PS4 game (and not making it a PS5 game) is misleading; and said patch would still apply to the original PS4 title; even if its usefulness would be limited.

@thefourfoldroot I think the big difference is that DF is not coming from the perspective of someone "Just playing" the game, they have analysis tools that tell a story that you can't always get by feel. For example I really can't tell much of a difference between 30 and 60 fps, or 1080p and 4k, so if I were to judge the BC mode, it would probably be underwhelming.

I really hope they fix the BC software for the AC games in a future (system) patch because I didn't platinum Syndicate and was planning on finishing it up before I tackle the new AC game.

@AJDarkstar I don't disagree that its a PS4 patch, but I don't think the patch is exclusive to the PS4 game on the PS5. That would require an extra level of logistics out of each console specifically for the few games that might want to do that. It doesn't seem like a reasonable approach when that patch can be applied to the PS4 version on both systems as an additional mode, even if they have to make it clear that the PS4 Pro might not make the best out of the mode.

@AJDarkstar The statement about them making PS4 patches that are exclusive to the PS5. Not PS5 patches for PS4 games (which makes it a PS5 game). This doesn't make any sense, not only logistically, but also knowing how the various SDKs work it doesn't make any sense. So do you know of a reliable source that actually states, clearly, that that's what they are doing? I can't say with 100% certainty that it's not happening like that, but I can make a pretty good educated guess, so if you know of an actual report on this it would surely clear things up.

@AJDarkstar I don't think this is true at all, do you have a source?

@Razrye888 I think PushSquare does a pretty good job of just reporting it as it is, and sometimes that isn't positive and we have to take the good with the bad. It does no one any good to put their fingers in their ears and pretend like everything is always perfect.

@get2sammyb Then that is NOT a PS5 patch or upgrade as the title suggests.

@get2sammyb I don't think that's how it works at all. You don't have PS5 specific logic in a PS4 game. At best you provide an uncapped/dynamic resolution PS4 Pro experience that is able to stretch its legs better on the PS5; but lets not confuse that for an actual PS5 upgrade.

@get2sammyb Since PSVR doesn't work on PS5 titles (or PS4 titles with PS5 upgrades) then this would have zero impact on them.

It might impact PS4 games that get "unlocked" framerates on the PS4 Pro or similar, but those not legit PS5 "upgrade" patches, they just happen to work better on the PS5 than the PS4.

@Weebleman The patch (as all of these are) would be a PS5 version specific patch, not a PS4 version patch, so that isn't really a viable excuse since the PS4 version (even if playing on the PS5) would remain untouched by these changes.

@Medic_Alert I can't say that I have ever had that problem. I pick up a game, play it, finish it (...usually), and move to another game. With rare exceptions (which is why I end up having to delete a game or two towards mid generation). Granted I do not play multi-player games, so that might change things a bit.

@ShootMePlease Thats not an option because while those of us that visit these forums would have no problem; it would certainly confuse the masses and create a lot more confusion when buying a drive. (I like the idea though!)

@Medic_Alert Yeah I don't get it. I buy a lot of games, but its not usually till around mid to late generation when I get to the point that I have enough un-finished games (that I swear I will finish one day) sitting around on HDD to be at the point where I have to make a sacrifice and delete a game I haven't played in months. Maybe I don't care as much about game deletion because I use physical media and can reinstall it in minutes? Regardless I doubt I will expand the PS5 for at least two or more years, and we can still use an external drive to transfer if you need.

@SpicyTacos101 If you are asking the question: "Is X amount of money not enough for Y company" then the answer will always and unequivocally be: No, it's not.

That being said, there are other ways to get a larger return on investment; for example: player good will and word of mouth can often translate into more sales over a longer period of time, and potentially transfer into future projects (CDPR is a good example of this); but the quick and easy way is microtransactions.

@lcipri I just don't understand it, especially when most of the outfits are above and beyond immersion breaking. I can understand it for online multiplayer match based games, of course, but single player story games? Does not compute.

I am the kind of player that doesn't ever change the outfit of my character throughout play, free or paid. Most of this is because I enjoy the original outfit the best; but also because it's often immersion breaking.

So paying money for the privilege? As you said, nonsense.

@thefourfoldroot I guess the question is, if you are not familiar enough with gaming to recognize the Spider-man game, the term PS5, what the PS5 looks like, or the Playstation logo, are you actually the target market for these advertisings?

@JoshuaTChandler You need a native 120 hz.

With "Effective 120 hz" the game will still play at 60 hz, but then the TV (not the console) will try and "smooth" motion (very poorly) simulating 120 hz.

A very important distinction to make when getting a TV that supports 120 hz, probably the most important is that a LOT of TV manufacturers mislead you into thinking its a 120 hz TV when its not. Avoid TV's that use "Effective Rate" or "Motion Rate" (or similar) terms. These are not the numbers you are looking for; and you will be very disappointed.

@Perryg92 Don't worry. Consumer friendly is a loaded term that has no actual objective meaning. It's typically used by people that have an agenda and want to push it.

What is consumer friendly to one, is anti-consumer to another, it all depends on your angle and what is most important to you as a consumer.

The PS4 (and PS3) controller have dozens of different companies that provide after market shell replacements. I would wager that the PS5 controller will be no different.

Personally, I think the two PS4 titles are great if you are one of the few that wants to play them and haven't yet. Unfortunately the first PS5 title, Bugsnax is just disappointing to say the least.

@deathaxe Why didn't you think we would get a PS5 game on PS+ for 6-12 months? We got them on day one with the PS4.

You could argue that there is less need (with PS5 being backwards compatible) but I would argue that Sony wants you to move to the PS5 ASAP, and giving existing PS+ members (most of which are on the PS4) "free" titles that they will have to buy a PS5 to play, gives more incentive to pick up a PS5 as soon as possible.

Even if someone doesn't get a new console for 6-12 months because of stock issues, by the end of 6-12 months they will have a large selection of PS5 PS+ titles already, making the PS5 better value out of the box than it would have been.

@huyi While that may be true, it also may be because of quality issues. They (the website in question) have said that the face places were designed based on dimensions released by Sony. That is already a red flag and it tells me that they don't actually have a PS5 to even test whether or not these face plates fit. Selling a product that you don't know will work is bound to have serious quality issues and it could be simply that Sony wants to avoid that image.

Personally I am hoping for some vinyl skins (clear matte ideally) for just the center, to cover up that awful glossy section.

@__jamiie Yeah, it depends on interpretation, I didn't see it as a dig, I saw it as Sony explaining why they are not going to go out and buy up studios just to counter Microsofts acquisitions because all of the internet seemed to be trying to goad both sides into an an acquisition fight.

@__jamiie In the same interview he made that comment, he ALSO said: that they will still "bolster our in-house capability with selective mergers and acquisitions." (direct quote). Their focus is not on acquisitions, but they will still make them where it makes sense.

As for the generations thing, there is no excuse for that. They could easily have said that they believe in generations, but also do not want to leave the last generation behind out of the gate. Instead they pretended like it was black and white at launch.

@__jamiie Sony has never made this claim, nor have fans made this claim in their stead.

I assume this is a comment based around the more recent talk of game studio acquisitions? Putting aside the fact that this is a completely separate market, run by completely separate people, making their own independent choices; Sony specifically stated in their most recent interview where they talk about wanting to grow studios organically, that they will still "bolster our in-house capability with selective mergers and acquisitions."

@Robinsad PS VR has sold 5 million units. Not all of those are going to upgrade to PS5 at launch. and even the ones that do, not all of them are going to care about bringing last generations headset to the PS5, so adding in a piece of technology in every box (for how long?) when the vast majority are going to throw them out, is not only a huge waste of money, it would also generate millions of units of e-waste.

That being said, I realize that this is not an ideal situation. They could have made this process smoother, and potentially started it much earlier to make sure it wasn't a mad rush to get one before the launch.

@LemonHaze What on earth are you even talking about? As a Plex user for many years I have tried to explain to you what Plex is because you seem to be confused about that. I have not tried to attack you in any fashion. In fact I believe its an easy mistake to make for someone going into Plex thinking its supposed to be a streaming service now that they added the movies and shows to it.

I don't actually think you have read any of my posts, so I am certainly wasting my time trying to explain it to you, since you don't seem to care about what the actual truth is and want to continue to spin your narrative.

@LemonHaze I think you are the one that is confused. I don't need to google Plex I have used it for many years and it's just absolutely amazing. Nothing else even comes close.

Plex is a media player that uses your own movies and TV shows, and puts a really nice UI on top of it and allows you access to all your media (the media you already own) from almost any internet connected device, anywhere in the world..

My guess is that you didn't use Plex to serve up your own media, and just logged in to the client expecting it to be like Netflix, saw an included selection of terrible movies and shows, and assumed that that's what Plex is. It's not. That's a recent (and in my opinion, unwanted) addition to Plex.

Plex is for those that own hundreds of movies and shows and want to have a Netflix-like media player to play them. It is only as good as the media you add to it, and you can add anything.

It's an easy mistake to make, I hope this clears things up for you.

@Dezzy70 to clarify a bit more of what @NDL08 said. There is no next-gen version. There is only a current-gen version.

Later (sometime in 2021) they will have an update for PS5/XSX. For now, if you buy the launch release, its going to be played as a BC title until that update arrives.

@MemSec I have a lot of nostalgia for all of the FF games. I played them all (from the first) as they came out (with the exception of the non-US released ones that I couldn't play until many years later on emulators). For IX it all depends on what you want out of a game I guess. I think IX had a great story, and some pretty enjoyable classic combat, but I heavily dislike the art theme and abhor the comedic characters (Steiner and Quen).

As for FFXIV it was only great (prior to Heavensward) IF you played the original 1.0 and had that story connection to bring you through. Heavensward and on though, its easily the best MMO and has some pretty enjoyable story writing and game mechanics. Unfortunately the MMO mission design (for the core game) is still there, so if you don't like that, you still won't like FFXIV.

@MemSec To be clear I said X-2 (not XIII-2); I never did understand the general like for IX as it is easily at the very bottom of my FF list (even below MQ and XIII-3)

XII was fun (the combat system was great), though the story didn't really have that punch that FF games are known for. They did return it Ivalice quite a bit in FFXIV.

I love Final Fantasy games, more than any other game series; but the theme of this one just doesn't do anything for me. I really hope it finds its own thematic identity, and that its more unique than it looked in the trailer.

@MemSec I love XIII and really enjoyed II. (I also love XII). My worst two would be IX and X-2 (or MQ if we count non-main line games too).