At this point there really is no point getting a console. It’s getting much harder to justify not getting a gaming PC, on which I can also play Microsoft exclusives, and PC exclusives.
@WallyWest As for what gamers can do, I'm honestly not too sure. Though at the very least, we can talk about it, collectively acknowledge the issues, and make ourselves heard. I wouldn't bet on a company like EA caring if it doesn't affect their profits, but for starters we can make it clear that it is a problem and recognise it.
@The_New_Butler There are many other examples of modern games being released in appalling states. AC Unity and Control come to mind for games that had major technical issues at launch. And the issue is, once games no longer have access to these patches, that is how they will remain. I had the one Days Gone creator in mind when writing, but I would be willing to bet there are other game devs who share their sentiments. And I honestly think the industry would be better if more people were tempted to pay full price at launch. However, that's not as likely to happen if people are given reason to wait for games to be fully patched.
@WallyWest Those bugs are a massive pain. And just think, lots of games released nowadays probably have those bugs only mitigated by a day one patch. Once we can't download the patches, all those games will be broken.
This is the thing, you say "welcome to modern gaming where you best enjoy the games while they last" as if we should just accept it just because it's the normal, and game preservation doesn't matter. It's important that these things don't become normalised, because this is what allows publishers to get away with this stuff.
@The_New_Butler You're not wrong that a large playerbase is more likely to find bugs than a small dev team. However, it is not the job of a paying customer to find these bugs. If devs need extra manpower, they have the option of betas, or hiring extra testers.
There are business decisions behind releasing broken games, but it's not always going to be the most profitable. Like I said earlier, fixing bugs before or after launch takes resources either way, so companies aren't saving anything by using patches as means. Then the reputation of a company can be massively at stake. The best recent example is CDProjekt Red. Even a company as popular as them, has shattered prestige that they spent years of releasing quality games building. Sure Cyberpunk may get patched and become an excellent game. However, the damage is done and people are less likely to trust said company. The hype and enthusiasm for the game will have gone down, and people on the fence about getting the game will probably just forget about it. And mainly, publishers like to complain about how gamers aren't supporting the industry by buying games for full price at launch, but why would gamers buy a game at launch if it's going to be riddled with bugs? Why would they pay more for a less functional product, instead of paying less for a fully working product? Publishers demands don't make any sense.
@The_New_Butler I didn't say it was the norm to release games completely bug free. I said it was the norm to release games in a decent state, so that they could be played without too many bugs ruining the enjoyment. For example, a PS2 game (say Shadow of the Colossus), wouldn't get any patches after going gold and being shipped. It would not be bug free, but it would be playable and 15 years after it can be played as normal without needed to download anything. You did occasionally get games that nowadays could be saved with patches, but back then they flopped hard.
Sure games are more complicated nowadays, and I get that more time is being used for bug finding. But there's no real reason to do so by patches. These patches still eat away into the developer's time and resources post launch, so surely that same work might as well just be done before launch. The only real reason they are needed is because publishers want the money and to release games ASAP, with a "release now, fix later" mentality. If a game can become fully functional through patches, there's no reason it can't be made fully functional before going gold.
@AdamNovice Granted there will be bugs during any development process, but there should be considerably less in a game that is being remade, since the main changes are just graphical. I don't mind so much that the patches exist, but it's a massive problem for the future if the game cannot function without these patches. It's not impossible to ship games in a working state, it was the industry norm back in the day.
Remakes of 10 year old games shouldn't need patches at all, let alone patches this big. These day one patches mean games will age terribly when they can't be downloaded anymore.
@djape I'm happy to wait for a better product, plus there will be a better range of accessories/games, and more likely to be cheaper. Lots of other stuff to play in the mean time,
@Matroska Aha fairs. I read a book about Timur about a year ago, so I was trying to think why I had never heard that name before, or whether it was just a massive typo.
@Dezzy70 I'm actually waiting for a slim to come out. I think it's generally better to wait a while after consoles launch so bugs can fixed. Plus, PS5 is a big boi, I'm scared of how much space it will take up in my fairly compact room.
This is really convincing me to stop waiting for a slim and just (try) and buy a PS5. Gameplay looks fun as ever (with some interesting platforming), visually beautiful, and the story seems like it will be pretty interesting.
I'd be interested to see if they could salvage the series from the trainwreck it was made into. I'm going to be cautious about buying future games from Naughty Dog, let alone a sequel to whatever TLOU2 was.
@Shepherd_Tallon That's a good point, I wouldn't mind more high fantasy stuff in general from Sony's first parties. Off the top of my head there's God Of War, but that's not a brand new universe.
Comments 1,244
Re: Sony Confirms Acquisition of Returnal Dev Housemarque
Nice, that’s a good acquisition for PS considering Sony and Housemarque had close ties anyway.
Re: PS4 Exclusives Prove Popular for PC Players on PS Now
@Stragen8 Lol, I definitely recommend them, as well as Crash 4.
Re: PS4 Exclusive Ghost of Tsushima Could Be Coming to PC as 'Only on PlayStation' Is Removed from Box
At this point there really is no point getting a console. It’s getting much harder to justify not getting a gaming PC, on which I can also play Microsoft exclusives, and PC exclusives.
Re: PS4 Exclusives Prove Popular for PC Players on PS Now
@Stragen8 Are we forgetting the Crash trilogy and CTR.
Re: UK Sales Charts: Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Sells Even Better in Its Second Week
Good to see there’s still a demand for 3D platformers.
Re: The Last of Us 2 Celebrates First Anniversary with New Merch
Wow, can’t believe it’s been a year already. A year since the internet changed forever.
Re: EA Originals Game Lost In Random Shares Story Trailer, Coming Soon to PS5, PS4
Looks nice, reminds me a lot of the Alice games.
Re: Poll: Did E3 2021 Suck?
I’m not sure about sucked, but it was very underwhelming. Games I was interested in were few and far between.
Re: Beloved Lovecraftian Lust from Beyond Toned Down for PS4
We definitely needed Sony to decide what would be too much for people who decided to pick up a horror game.
Re: Babylon's Fall Gets Smashed with Dislikes Upon Its Gameplay Return
Its like the voices were ripped straight from the original Medievil.
Re: Far Cry 6 DLC Will Feature Previous Villains, Including Vaas
Why are they talking about DLC when the game isn’t out.
Re: Rumour: Call of Duty: Vanguard Reveal Planned for Warzone, Not E3
I really hope Warzone isn’t at the front of the COD.
Re: Sly Cooper, MediEvil Getting the Funko Pops Treatment
@True_Jehuty Same. They’re pretty good quality for the price you pay.
Re: PlayStation Studio and Astro's Playroom Dev Team Asobi Is Expanding, Gets a Cool New Logo
I think this is the first piece of good news from Japan Studio I've seen for 5 years.
Re: PS3 Received a New Firmware Update, By the Way
@JonTheGod Yep. It was as archaic as PS4 not letting you use folders or remove icons for deleted betas. At least the PS4 fixed those issues.
Re: Official PlayStation Website Losing Support for Friends, Messages, Trophies, More This Month
I highly recommend PSNProfiles. It's excellent for trophy tracking.
Re: PS3 Received a New Firmware Update, By the Way
I'm still hoping in vain for them to let you organise games alphabetically, but it's nice we're getting something.
Re: PSN Offline for Many PS3 Users, Sony Currently Investigating
@Residentsteven Fairs. After digging out my N64 a couple of years back, I decided I love keeping old consoles.
I still play COD WAW fairly often.
Re: PSN Offline for Many PS3 Users, Sony Currently Investigating
@Residentsteven It's got some great games so why not.
Re: Bomberman and Fall Guys Cross Paths with New Costumes in Both Games
Never played Bomberman, but it's a nice costume.
Re: Sony Exploring Ways to Bring 'Wonderful' PlayStation Franchises to Mobile
Can't wait, I love mobile games so this is exciting.
Said no one ever.
Re: LittleBigPlanet Servers Disabled Again After Disgruntled Fan Declares #LittleBigVictory
Why is the fan salty? Sackboy just came out recently.
Re: Poll: How Excited Are You for This Summer's Gaming Events?
Sony's intial reveal for PS5 games was amazing, I'll be happy if they can make a presentation as good as that.
Re: Tron Is the Latest Collaboration with Fall Guys, Several Costumes Arrive Next Week
@nomither6 Yeah, I don't know why that would be surprising.
Re: Huge 11GB Mass Effect Legendary Edition Patch 1.02 Available to Download Now
@WallyWest As for what gamers can do, I'm honestly not too sure. Though at the very least, we can talk about it, collectively acknowledge the issues, and make ourselves heard. I wouldn't bet on a company like EA caring if it doesn't affect their profits, but for starters we can make it clear that it is a problem and recognise it.
Re: Huge 11GB Mass Effect Legendary Edition Patch 1.02 Available to Download Now
@The_New_Butler There are many other examples of modern games being released in appalling states. AC Unity and Control come to mind for games that had major technical issues at launch. And the issue is, once games no longer have access to these patches, that is how they will remain. I had the one Days Gone creator in mind when writing, but I would be willing to bet there are other game devs who share their sentiments. And I honestly think the industry would be better if more people were tempted to pay full price at launch. However, that's not as likely to happen if people are given reason to wait for games to be fully patched.
Re: Huge 11GB Mass Effect Legendary Edition Patch 1.02 Available to Download Now
@LordSteev Aha cheers. I'm not saying this game in particular is bad for it, I have no idea what it's like unpatched. It's just an issue in general.
Re: Huge 11GB Mass Effect Legendary Edition Patch 1.02 Available to Download Now
@WallyWest Those bugs are a massive pain. And just think, lots of games released nowadays probably have those bugs only mitigated by a day one patch. Once we can't download the patches, all those games will be broken.
This is the thing, you say "welcome to modern gaming where you best enjoy the games while they last" as if we should just accept it just because it's the normal, and game preservation doesn't matter. It's important that these things don't become normalised, because this is what allows publishers to get away with this stuff.
Re: Huge 11GB Mass Effect Legendary Edition Patch 1.02 Available to Download Now
@The_New_Butler You're not wrong that a large playerbase is more likely to find bugs than a small dev team. However, it is not the job of a paying customer to find these bugs. If devs need extra manpower, they have the option of betas, or hiring extra testers.
There are business decisions behind releasing broken games, but it's not always going to be the most profitable. Like I said earlier, fixing bugs before or after launch takes resources either way, so companies aren't saving anything by using patches as means. Then the reputation of a company can be massively at stake. The best recent example is CDProjekt Red. Even a company as popular as them, has shattered prestige that they spent years of releasing quality games building. Sure Cyberpunk may get patched and become an excellent game. However, the damage is done and people are less likely to trust said company. The hype and enthusiasm for the game will have gone down, and people on the fence about getting the game will probably just forget about it. And mainly, publishers like to complain about how gamers aren't supporting the industry by buying games for full price at launch, but why would gamers buy a game at launch if it's going to be riddled with bugs? Why would they pay more for a less functional product, instead of paying less for a fully working product? Publishers demands don't make any sense.
Re: Huge 11GB Mass Effect Legendary Edition Patch 1.02 Available to Download Now
@The_New_Butler I didn't say it was the norm to release games completely bug free. I said it was the norm to release games in a decent state, so that they could be played without too many bugs ruining the enjoyment. For example, a PS2 game (say Shadow of the Colossus), wouldn't get any patches after going gold and being shipped. It would not be bug free, but it would be playable and 15 years after it can be played as normal without needed to download anything. You did occasionally get games that nowadays could be saved with patches, but back then they flopped hard.
Sure games are more complicated nowadays, and I get that more time is being used for bug finding. But there's no real reason to do so by patches. These patches still eat away into the developer's time and resources post launch, so surely that same work might as well just be done before launch. The only real reason they are needed is because publishers want the money and to release games ASAP, with a "release now, fix later" mentality. If a game can become fully functional through patches, there's no reason it can't be made fully functional before going gold.
Re: Huge 11GB Mass Effect Legendary Edition Patch 1.02 Available to Download Now
@AdamNovice Granted there will be bugs during any development process, but there should be considerably less in a game that is being remade, since the main changes are just graphical. I don't mind so much that the patches exist, but it's a massive problem for the future if the game cannot function without these patches. It's not impossible to ship games in a working state, it was the industry norm back in the day.
Re: Huge 11GB Mass Effect Legendary Edition Patch 1.02 Available to Download Now
Remakes of 10 year old games shouldn't need patches at all, let alone patches this big. These day one patches mean games will age terribly when they can't be downloaded anymore.
Re: Ghostrunner 2 Revealed, First Game Still Coming to PS5
Great news! Ghostrunner was a phenomenal game, really underlooked.
Re: Fall Guys Mid-Season Update 4.5 Arrives Today, Adds New Rounds, Variations, and More
Oooh, a Slime Climb sequel sounds fun.
Re: Random: As Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Hype Increases, Watch Ted Price and Mark Cerny Promote the Original
It left an amazing legacy, but the first game hasn't aged too well. Especially compared to Jak and Sly.
Re: Leaked Document Reveals Xbox's Opinion of The Last of Us 2
Weird, I'd say was the other way round. Story and dialogue sucked, while gameplay/combat was extremely fun. The attention to detail really makes it.
Re: Web PS Store Finally Adds Sorting, Filtering Options Again
Bravo!! What an awesome addition.
Re: Konami Pulls Out of E3 2021, Says 'Key Projects' Are Still in Deep Development
Understandable. Them pachinko machines are intricately crafted with love and care.
Re: Crash Bandicoot 4 Dev Enlisted for Call of Duty, Er, Duty
But Crash 4 was amazing. What an absolute waste.
Re: Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Is Just Unbelievably Good Looking in Extended PS5 Gameplay
@djape I'm happy to wait for a better product, plus there will be a better range of accessories/games, and more likely to be cheaper. Lots of other stuff to play in the mean time,
Re: Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Is Just Unbelievably Good Looking in Extended PS5 Gameplay
@playstation1995 Or that. Either way, there's no reason to panic buy, and get something just because it's the cool new thing.
Re: Random: Ghost of Tsushima Helps Gameshow Contestant Answer Question on Japanese History
@Matroska Aha fairs. I read a book about Timur about a year ago, so I was trying to think why I had never heard that name before, or whether it was just a massive typo.
Re: Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Is Just Unbelievably Good Looking in Extended PS5 Gameplay
@Dezzy70 I'm actually waiting for a slim to come out. I think it's generally better to wait a while after consoles launch so bugs can fixed. Plus, PS5 is a big boi, I'm scared of how much space it will take up in my fairly compact room.
Re: Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Is Just Unbelievably Good Looking in Extended PS5 Gameplay
This is really convincing me to stop waiting for a slim and just (try) and buy a PS5. Gameplay looks fun as ever (with some interesting platforming), visually beautiful, and the story seems like it will be pretty interesting.
Re: Random: Ghost of Tsushima Helps Gameshow Contestant Answer Question on Japanese History
Is Tamburlaine an alternative version of Tamerlane/Timur, because I've never heard of it.
Anyway, this is why I love video games/fiction in general. They're such a good way to make people aware of history, and encourage them to learn more.
Re: The Last of Us 3 Story Outline Has Been Written, Says Neil Druckmann
I'd be interested to see if they could salvage the series from the trainwreck it was made into. I'm going to be cautious about buying future games from Naughty Dog, let alone a sequel to whatever TLOU2 was.
Re: Digital Dominates Physical As Pandemic Pushes Consumers to PS Store
@RenanKJ In the long term it probably would, but not so much right now as there still far more many people buying software for PS4.
Re: Sony Set to Invest Even More Money in PlayStation Exclusive Games This Year
@Shepherd_Tallon That's a good point, I wouldn't mind more high fantasy stuff in general from Sony's first parties. Off the top of my head there's God Of War, but that's not a brand new universe.
Re: Sony Set to Invest Even More Money in PlayStation Exclusive Games This Year
@Shepherd_Tallon Granted it's not the biggest, nor is it fantasy, but isn't Horizon pretty much that?
Re: Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart Trailer Trends on YouTube with 1.1 Million Views
Buying Insomniac is hands down one of the best moves Playstation has made in years.