Comments 1,220

Re: Neil Druckmann Claims Comments of Next Naughty Dog Game 'Redefining' the Mainstream View of Gaming Was a Sony Misquote

ThroughTheIris56

@Omnistalgic It's just disappointing, the idea of him softening up is pretty far fetched considering he was already shown to be cautious and distrusting right before the apocalypse. While his life would have been comparably easier after moving into Jackson, due to still facing danger somewhat regularly and actively having to be cautious to avoid Ellie learning the truth, it doesn't really make sense to the point he would soften up to point of it getting himself killed.

Negative character development can be written really well. The downfall of Griffith from Berserk is an excellent example, as it shows as logical progression. Joel's softening wasn't shown at all on screen, we're just expected to believe it after seeing him get killed which is why so many people hate his death.

Re: Neil Druckmann Claims Comments of Next Naughty Dog Game 'Redefining' the Mainstream View of Gaming Was a Sony Misquote

ThroughTheIris56

@Artois2 To explain why Joel's death did not suit him as a character, I'll first give a example of a character that died a very fitting death. Don't read the next paragraph if you don't want Game of Thrones spoilers.

Robb Stark was shown to be an effective battlefield commander, but also shown he was somewhat naive when it came to politics. It all led to him being betrayed at his Uncle's wedding by his own allies. It started by him breaking his vow to the Frey's by marrying another women, due to him being emotionally compromised due to lots of bad news. After taking heavy losses partly due to rough political decisions, he was forced to arrange his Uncle's wedding. It all made perfect sense why the Freys and Boltons betrayed him. Bear in mind Robb was my favourite character, so according to TLOU2 fanboys I should have hated GoT because of this, but it was an amazing death because the events that led up to it made perfect sense, and it was due to the clear result of his character flaws.

On the other hand Joel is consistently meant to be an extremely cautious character (in the first 15 minutes of the first game he doesn't let struggling bystanders into his car), yet he died because he gave away his name. Abby's motives do make sense for killing Joel if it can be believed she still has the motivation for it 5 years after Joel killed the doctor. Yet instead of the WLF actually making the effort to find/lure Joel out, they just happen to stumble across him in the best possible scenario for them. They didn't have to plan anything or have any trouble, it as easy as just having him standing in the middle of the room of dodgy and suspicious strangers. Then by sheer coincidence, Ellie comes along at exactly the right time to see Joel get murdered.

The first death mentioned was the consequence of their actions, and happened from an elaborate and carefully made plan. Joel's death happened in the way it did, because the moon happened to be in the right place in the sky. I don't have a problem with Joel dying, it was the fact it was hamfisted and required so many coincidences to happen.

Re: Neil Druckmann Claims Comments of Next Naughty Dog Game 'Redefining' the Mainstream View of Gaming Was a Sony Misquote

ThroughTheIris56

@Artois2 Off the top of my head: Awful pacing, unlikable characters, boring dialogue, tone is dark throughout so it just loses impact, many moments being extremely contrived, purposefully ruined characters like Tommy, ending made the game feel like a complete waste of time.

In the first game the highs and lows which complimented each other and made such moments stand out, whereas Part 2 is just consistently bleak so it's just easy to not care by the end of it.

TLOU2 contrary to what the fanboys seem to think, is not the first story to have a major character death. Game of Thrones and Attack on Titan both have major deaths, and those stories are amazing because the characters in that died in ways that made sense and made perfect sense for the character. The major death in TLOU2 does not fit the character at all, with the circumstances being very contrived. That's why it baffles me when fanboys dismiss all criticism of the game as "you just didn't like the character death".