@Vaako007 Honestly that's not a bad plan. All but Nintendo are just chasing trying to be better PCs. At first they were chasing cheaper. Now they're not even necessarily cheaper all costs considered. And in the end that's all they really are. Weak PCs for marginally less money. There's nothing exciting about them except as an appliance to turn video games on. I think a "special" kind of gaming box would be much more interesting, but I think the problem is 3rd party. All the real money comes from selling 3rd party games, and the 3rd parties are insistent that what they want is just a bunch of PCs to copy and paste games to. They can't make money at what they're spending even with that let alone a bespoke console. Sony would probably love to do that for themselves, but it would be another WiiU, a bespoke console supported by Sony and no one else, and without that 30% of tons of software sales, there's no console (or it's the Saturn )
FWIW, PC doesn't mean desk and monitor. Hasn't for ages. Yeah, for certain games like Dota, WoW, or Starcraft 2, you kinda need that. But for the same games that are on console it's almost as couch friendly as console. Just plug into the TV. You do have do to a little more setup vs just "plug in and turn on", but using Steam Big Picture mode, for a console-like experience is a few mouse clicks of setup. Or if you use multiple storefronts (I do), installing Playnite or something similar brings it all together. You can even skin it to look like a PS4, PS5, Deck, X1, or XSX. After you set it up how you want the only thing that's really less convenient than console for the couch is that while you don't NEED a keyboard and mouse, there's a lot of moments where it's kind of necessary. A $25 wireless keybo/trackpad solves that, but it's a "second controller" to keep around for occasional use, namely for login, or older games with launchers that don't work with controller (FF13, Rune Factory 5, stuff like that.) The other is not all games behave nicely with sleep/hibernate, while console suspend is a lot more reliable (that said, I've had a lot of anomalies with PS5 Sleep and XSX Quick Resume with some games as well. Only switch seems to get it right probably because Android handles that stuff by default.) All that to say, never rule out PC entirely, if you're ever so inclined, just because you think it's not couch friendly. It is, with a little bit of setup, and yes a wireless keyboard for when you need it (I have a little controller-sized one that's kind of like the old PS3 keyboard attachment for controllers, but not attached.
@Fiendish-Beaver Very possible, but I'm not sure sub numbers will impress shareholders without a matching boost to subscription revenue, which this does not generate. If they're doing it for that, it's a very shallow and useless benefit to them, their share holders will not be impressed by numbers that don't include dollar signs.
@Shalooda I agree it's a dubious behavior, however, it's also the best option and largest megaphone to stage a meaningful "civil disobedience" style protest in a digital format. If they were not doing this and influencing the game's rating, nobody would even be talking about the message they're sending. So I'd say it's effective and working, even if I don't think I'd do that, personally.
Though Sony's long term "fix" will likely be stop supporting other storefront and try to sell through only their own, and disable reviews. Taking their ball and going home then wondering why sales suck.
Every time they say "PSVR2" games I think they're actually going to show interesting new PSVR2 games instead of ones they've already told us about or highlighting an upcoming indie or two, wedged bewteen 8 minutes of Marathon and the PlayStation Pocket Fisherman.
The kind of people that would spend $10,000 to have someone elseattempt to get them a $700 plastic toy in new paint that isn't actually worth that price, is precisely the kind of consumer that Sony is targeting as their core market, and is also the kind of whale that drives the mobile industry, and has led the entire gaming industry to be where it is. Unfortunately these people really do exist. If you make 7 figures and can't figure out how to tie your own shoelaces, and can't be bothered to learn how, just pay someone else 5 figures to do it for you. Doesn't cost much.
@Intr1n5ic It's not just crossplay though, SoT is still on the same world servers at MS, just filtered for PS only if so inclined. I totally understand accounts for shared world games. Helldivers not so much because it's just match making, not a world server. And obviously not single player games. There's a big difference there.
I get your point about refunding just to post the review,I wouldn't do that either, but I also get it. It's a form of protest. Like sit down strikes and burning draft cards, civil disobedience is the only way the masses can get messages to the powers that rule over them in ways that make them have to react. The alternative is doing nothing, bending over and accepting the status quo. It may not work or it may, but if a plurality decides the line can be drawn here while Sony is fresh in the pool they may force change. and if they can force Sony to change that puts blood in the water to push ea, Ubisoft and others after. I get your point. But if people didn't push to change things for the better, we'd still be living in fiefdoms. Sadly people stopped for too long and were close to corporate fiefdoms already.
Console customers like steam customers already have an account for the drm of their choice. Unless it's a server login for a shared world, console customers should also be up in arms about secondary accounts in games. It's less common on console but it's there too and should not be.
@Intr1n5ic Sea of Thieves is a shared world online server. Like FFXIV, and other MMOs. You have to have an account on the server to log in to be in the game. GoW is not. And yes, HiFi Rush also is not and people haven't been happy with Bethesda doing that stuff either. And EA, Ubisoft have been nemesis of the community forever.
That said, console players SHOULD be upset about these things. But by nature the console audience isn't necessarily technically inclined while the PC audience is much more aware of data rights and privacy issues and therefore much more likely to raise voices over it.
As for PSN security I can only say I've only had a credit card compromised once, and Sony was the culprit.........
It's not a review bomb if it's a negative review based on criticism of the game as delivered. Mandatory data harvesting is legitimate serious criticism. Or does everyone forget why the Xbox One got destroyed before it launched?
Off the top of my head companies that make you do this for their games that are not inherently multiplayer are Ubisoft, EA, Sony, Rockstar, and Bethesda. All except Bethesda aren't exactly darlings of consumer confidence. Other companies including MS do require for online focused games.
Ubisoft uses it as DRM and ops out of family sharing. Sony at least doesn't, but that also means the data harvesting is the only purpose. Users criticizing that are genuine criticisms.
@KundaliniRising333 Sony has recognized their market is trained by the mobile market. They'res lawyers in Saudi with nothing so spend money on but elite premium brand entertainment center equipment. That's their target. They're purely skimming the whales and in our newly bifurcated economy theres no shortage of whales to milk globally, even if it's only a percent of that used to be their market.
Remember the blind allegiant crowds is only a blip on their radar. Most of their market doesn't buy because PlayStation. Most buy because "default product I'm aware of". Once something looks better, it cheaper, but seems popular, that's what will be the default. Sony targeting yuppie entertainment rooms is idiotically myopic, but it's their standard practice.
When PS1 came out and I was in Sega and Nintendo I didn't understand why people would want a console from an expensive VCR maker instead of a real games company. As I load my cart with Atlus and RGG games and Sony is doing this, I'm wondering that question again.
@HamKnight That's what they were always going to do either way. See also, 4 pro. Pro will make up at most 15% of the install base. 20% if it's a shocking runaway unpredicted viral hit. I.e. most players will be on base and devs will kind of ignore pro.
@Ralizah That last statement I entirely agree with. That's everything right there.
As for the Xbox brand being at it height em when they went all in on console, yes, obviously, but I still think that didn't actually do them any good in the larger picture. They didn't want to have a successful console, they wanted that to be a part of their greater ecosystem. It was division under windows after all.
@tselliot I think the biggest problem with stopping scalping is that nothing about the purchase is invalid. It's an actual sale to actual people. It's just that their intent isn't to own it.
The only real fix for scalping is stop using fomo as a sales tactic (will never happen) or make enough to avoid the ability for scalpers to organize to consume all available inventory to control price.
There's also the legislative fix of treating organized scalping as a criminal organization but that's hard to enforce, big Corp would have a problem with that rules solid to making price fixing and supply manipulation illegal.
Then there's draconian gateways of selecting what customers may purchase which controls it better, but also raises a lot of doubts about how those customers are selected.
It's a big factor that made me want out of consoles. The 30th anniversary shows us these companies thrive on low supply, high demand, driving scalping this driving status and demand and thus driving their own prices and prestige up. Scalpers have power because Sony and Nintendo WANT them to.
@Vaako007 either consoles are PCs in which case they are a way worse value, or consoles are not PCs and should not be comparable to PCs pricing and upgrade strategies. Nor do most PC gamers need to upgrade to every new iteration while the console mid Gen is proposed as a fix to the obsolescence of the base model (even though it will of course not exceed 15% install base)
The pro represents a marginal upgrade that is increasingly looking like it'll be thrown out to be replaced rapidly. If consoles are into continuous upgrade cycles they've outlived their primary purpose and it's no wonder the market is losing interest.
But again we go back to "premium" and "lifestyle". Informed consumers don't pay more for that. Vain and uninformed people do. Or brand loyalists but that's a tiny niche.
@Ralizah because they can't be left out if everyone else is doing it, they need the same feature checklist to avoid attrition, especially in Asia, and the existing Sony loyal will eat up anything Sony. Plus going back to Phil lol when he said they lost the worst Gen to lose because people built up their digital libraries on ps, I think Sony is very aware of that and paranoid about holding that library vendor lock as an asset now. They know they need to make sure to retain people for life based on that library and not give them egress routes.
Already into ps6 conversation, sorry fans but this again indicates pro is a temporary cash grab for consumers that don't know better.
As for the handheld it makes sense. Xbox is doing it, Nintendo is built on it, and PC especially in Asia is exploding on it. Sony would be the odd dinosaur out without handheld at this point.
Though with Sonys new pricing motif, they're jumping into a red ocean history shows they're not good at competing in. It seems to me the minds behind Sonys consumer electronics businesses, which don't perform well, are now behind PlayStation. Sony likes to position their electronics as a "luxury lifestyle brand". It hasn't worked in electronics except for a subset of fans. And I think it threatens their dominance in gaming (which might be a good thing for gaming) where they're going after affluent image conscious entertainment fans, what they really have is fortnite kiddies, and what much of the gaming market that's not either wants is neither of the above. Their strength right now is that they're the default choice for anyone that doesn't want to think about it much. Not that they're sought after for brand prestige, which is that they seem too think. That places their likely direction and consumer expectation at stark odds as they enter a very red ocean
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare "sometimes you'll get sold a turd sandwich." That already sounds like a better game design than Concord 😂
@Ralizah I still wonder about switch 2. I don't think it'll fail but if that mock-up is really true and it just looks like a refresh model of switch with more power I don't think it'll fly off shelves. The novelty sold switch 1. I think for a lot of the market that's still good enough. The Nintendo market isn't like the Sony market where selling more teraflops is a selling point. And Nintendo already said they don't need a new switch for their own games, its for third parties which I translate to meaning Nintendo's games will be more of the same and not really do much different with the new hardware. Half of Nintendo magic is doing things with weird hardware limitations. I'm sure it'll sell ok, and I'm sure there will be some games I'll want and need it for, but so far I'm not feeling energy from switch 2. Feels like switch 2 is the switch pro that was going to realise 200 years ago.
I agree with the hands off part. Phil messed up there (though no matter how bad he messed up he looks miyamoto level next to Herman and Jim. Even Phil never failed Concord-hard or anywhere close.
But I disagree on some of the rest. Merging Xbox and PC was the ORIGINAL purpose of Xbox. That's why the brand exists. It was never supposed to be a console for the sake if consoles. It was supposed to DISRUPT consoles that were disrupting the windows gaming status quo. 360 was the weird one where they went all in in console as console. It made them the most money but also took them farther from the real goal. In that sense, by merging windows and Xbox gaming, and if the next Xbox is really a PC as is rumored, Phil actually got them back on track to the original goal they strayed from, albeit not at all gracefully.
Game pass ... Yeah I think it was too soon and too much, though IDK how much was Phil and how much was corporate. Originally it was Phil. But pushing it harder than the console happened after series, and seemed to be a misguided play at Mobile. Then vanished when they got King. That has nadella all over it.
Phil made big mistakes. Corporate made even worse mistakes trading the future for the present. I think. I think a lot of things went wrong there. But honestly I think the internal tug of war did the most damage. Phil was an asset because he was direct and open in communication and setting expectations. Once the tug of war began and he'd say things corporate would change in months he lost all trust, the that's when the entire momentum collapsed. I think the biggest mistake was not actually TRYING to pretend console customers mattered to them
@Ralizah I think that's because he doesn't actually run the gaming business he just runs the corporate business, that's why they split the job into the Fellowship thing to break Iwatas job into 3. Furukawa IS the nondescript Japanese suit. Miyamoto quietly runs games and IP. Hardware dude is new after Takeda retired so who knows maybe that lame switch 2 is real. But all the magic is still managed by Miyamoto at the executive (not creative) level. From beginning to today, he's always been the secret sauce over there.
Phil's actually great at running the gaming business he's just not good at running... Business business.
Yep. An ad man, a bit of a technophile, his Ubisoft experience was an internship in marketing, his real background was just Phillips marketing in TV's and electronics. And then straight to guerilla. No idea how he rose up the ranks but that's on Jim seeing a fellow traveler in hulst. Both of them just know how to sell stuff to people.
Meanwhile at NOA we have Doug Bowser, from P&G, like Reggie, guys that know snack food, toothpaste, and bath soap. Furukawa the banker.
And we wonder what's wrong with gaming when nobody that runs the business understands the business. Phil Spencer knows but can't figure out business and marketing. Spencer/Hulst 2024?
@GreatAuk I completely agree. I do fear the price will be high. Phil talked and Moore's law ending making the subsidy model difficult to sustain and consoles are going to become more expensive than people are used to. So I think they're planning to go expensive (plus the handheld.). And I think they can't afford to do that either. But I also think it's true they're going to try to merge console and PC, which was the original point of Xbox.... They didn't mention steam, but if they DID manage to get steam and all the others on there and make it more a full windows machine with console ease, AND keep Prices accessible, Sony would need to try much harder to not become an island.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare Didn't he come from marketing at Phillips? He and Jim are both ad men. Ad men know only one thing: spending money. How they got to the top I'll never know.
@GreatAuk It's all but announced they're working on a handheld. They have said they're working on a Gen system that will "be the greatest technological leap in console history". I'm guessing that means AI. Could all be noise. Rumor says it'll really be a PC in console form factor with PC storefronts (MS has talked about the multiple store fronts like epic.)
So yes, and there's lots of theories and I do believe it will happen. But you never know how they'll botch it.
@Fiendish-Beaver I can't remember who but I recall at least one person here that could still call you a kid.... I'm pretty sure the title of Elder Pony is not yours so can claim, I'm afraid!
@Toot1st Exactly! People keep going on about exclusives and Sony porting to PC but exactly what you say is that drives their market today, and they know that.
@Sakai IIRC the 2:1 is lifetime, including launch where Xbox had a decent start and good momentum. 3:1 is the current year after Xbox declared they dgaf.
@Titntin Hah, thanks for the kind epilogue and although we fight like a married couple, you're alright and I enjoy our exchanges regardless, it's a different perspective either way! You may want to change your Muppet of choice to Oscar though
As for my gaming right now I'm knee deep in Meta stuff on quest 3 while the weather allows more active gaming, and mixing it with an indecisive mishmash of other games on my Ally that I'll never complete because I keep starting all of them and jumping around lol (p3r, harvestella, rune factory 5, revisiting ff13 (into the trilogy I skipped ... Someday), armored core 5, little kitty, p5 strikers (restarting it),plus like 50 things not installed I keep getting tempted to install lol. On the big screen once the weather turns. Dunno, I'm probably going to go all in on trying vr mods for tons of stuff I played in the past but never in VR. And flight Sim. I've a mountain of stuff and I keep trying to play it all at once. Plus I'm only into the 1st expansion if FFXIV. Hiatus for now. Just bought dd2 hoping it runs half decent on PC. I never finish games but I play lots of them 😂
@Titntin "ve never even seen you talk abiut a game youve played or enjoyed. It appears you dont play games at all and simply enjoy riding the next 'injustice wave' "
Eh, again, no, I think we just have different taste in games and you're not seeing that (though I'm pretty sure we did both just squealed like school girls over Pirate Majima so we're not entirely different 😆). Plus I'm big on VR games as you know so I have a lot of positive comments in those platforms you're not into.
Plenty of good games it's just that most of them aren't the hyped ones, and the hyped ones are usually fifty shades of awful/offensive. And not from any of the platform holders these days.
Astrobot is great looking but holding off for PC port and inevitable vr mod for the way it should be
@jrt87 I agree but otoh, I remember when the container ship carrying snes for export required a JSDF naval escort due to a reasonable suspicion that the Yakuza were planning to hijack it to get the SNESes. Cue Pirate Majima jokes here. Maybe the more things change the more the stay the same 😂
I have an endless pile of Atlus games to get through, Ys X... Bought it twice and still have not played it. I need to buy it again on steam darnit. I'm a monster. Or monstum?
But yeah the fomo beat the scalpers game is another reason I wanted out of console. Yeah gpus have that too but there's zero reason to actually get a lunch gpu. I just fear how Nvidia pricing will go next time especially with console prices jumping. $2k for 5090 wouldn't surprise me at all.
@HonestHick I think a lot of the user base is so emotionally attached to a company that sucked long before PlayStation existed, they'll defend to to the end. . I think the mass market won't be pleased though. And I think Sony is in for a shock on ps6. They will charge high and the economy will still suck. These companies don't get that people spending their savings is what held the economy together. The savings are gone now. They're left selling expensive things to a luxury market where most of that market isn't into games. They'll sell less hardware and way less software. And they won't have the 2020 shortages to make getting a PS5 a necessity even if you don't actually want one just because it's the thing to get which happened this time.
Ff16, yeah 4090 gets like 54fps with drops at 4k ultra, 4070 ti super gets like 34 and that punches well above Pros weight class. The biggest problem is low to ultra isn't very different and only offers slight improvement. It runs fine with dlss and frame gen, but even frame gen when dynamic res is on produces motion artifacts.
I'm thinking pro may not use ultra and will render 1080p. Not sure if can even do 1400 on that game. AI for the rest.
I did see that people are turning ssr and ao off for more stable fps without frame Gen or dynamic res and it's solid 60. Seems like water in particular hits the ssr hard and that's part of what cripples fps. That's the kind of thing thats nice on PC is being able to turn faff like that off. I don't care if reflections on the water are anatomically correct, I just want combat to be fluid in a freaking action game.
Whole industry is so broken.
Edit: yeah those 30th are extremely pretty, but 12000 limited edition, bundle only....... Insanity. Is just like TVs. Thing is Sony is struggling with sales. And what does Sony do whenever sales struggle? Go up market! It's their standard corporate playbook. It fails every time but they do it every time.
@HonestHick absolutely, though not just Jimbo but his mini-me Herman too. Always said Herman had to go too, and wasn't happy he got promoted. Was happy someone from Tokyo got control of hardware but if the pro and the 30th bundle are anything to go by I'd swear they got him from the cratering TV division.
I'm thinking 200 mil in the tank before Jim and Herman threw 200 more into it. Having to outsource Dev on a fast track can't be cheap (from a studio you just bought...) and let's be real 150m is probably the obscene marketing.
And that's 400m PLUS the cost of buying the studio. Didn't embracer buy half of square for close to that lol?
Hah yeah I'd heard 16 runs poorly on PC too, it's disgraceful. Was going to rebuy, probably still will but it's utterly insane how poorly made that game is. I'm guessing the same logic itself is tied to 30fps or something. Idk how the guy that saved xiv from that nonsense went on to make that dog of a game with a dog. Of course with dlss I'm sure it's quite a bit better than PS5, the 4k is probably pushing native but still, something is VERY wrong with that game.
@Art_Vandelay I did cover Nintendo as a unique case. Nintendo isn't the success it is "because exclusives". It's because their exclusives are Maro, Pokemon, etc. Powerhouse iconic brands even if video games stop existing. Mk8 outsold half of Sony's games combined. Is it because it's an exclusive kart racer? No it's because it's Mario Kart. That same trick doesn't work for anyone else.
I'd also argue at this point that being a handheld running console games is even more important than Mario though. Nintendo home console sales were doomed and declining since the 90s. In a way Nintendo DOES exemplify that consoles are dying. Even Nintendo consoles were fading with the exception of Wii that captureed what would become the phone maket before phones happened. It's Nintendo handhelds that sell. Because they're handhelds. And because Mario and Pokemon.
Sony can't play the same game. The fact that they are putting games on PC because they can't make the return needed on their own platform speaks to that
Bottom line is you're not the only one going with "exclusives sell consoles" and even Mike Ybarra was selling that as the necessity for Ms too. But I don't buy it. And neither does Sony. The numbers show in black and white that's simply not what sells their consoles. It used to be. Jim thought it was. But the numbers and upper management show it's not.
@Titntin I think cashing in on the IP means the million sequels, spinoffs, lunch boxes, and personal care products. Just reselling the same game with more reflections for more money and advertising it as all new is every bit as exploitative as when Disney used to advertise "buy it for the last time ever on home video" to sell a bunch of VHS tapes just before DVD happened, where consumers thought they could never buy the movie again.
I do see it as exploitation. No ulterior motive, it's just offensive when companies rely on consumers being inadequately informed as their primary motivator for purchases. Didn't matter if it's video games, toothpaste, or engine oil. I think people build a mutual respect with companies that demonstrate respect for the customer, offer innovative products for reasonable prices, and don't misrepresent things. When companies get into this game of repackaging products and selling with a smirk to people that didn't know enough to recognize that it's a repackaged product for more money, they come across as getting one over on people and it doesn't sit well with those that recognize it. I don't mind them exploiting an IP by making too much of it though that's one way to kill said IP, but not just reselling it as new.
I'm not even sure the issue is console gaming going mainstream. The casuals are all but gone into phones. I'm not quite sure how we define the current market. I'm not sure the console makers really know either which is part of the problem.
@Art_Vandelay I see what you're saying, but I feel the point is that that "symbol" is the hardware itself today, not the exclusives that go with it. When the majority of customers on the platform aren't interested in those exclusives to begin with that's not part of the symbol to them. The symbol is seeing the PS logo on the boards while watching TV sports, not seeing Kratos.
Where I disagree is the importance of exclusives when you look at the actual sales compared to install base.
While I do get your point about eroding the platform, I think that's a much bigger issue than "exclusives". Not for nerds on forums but for the masses. The problem is they committed generations ago to chasing PC games and PC publishers and PC developers, and the end result is what they have is a PC in a convenient shell. That ship sailed long ago. Their MAIN market right now on console is people looking for a box to play the most popular games on cheap and easy. None of their games are even close to the most popular games, and by definition, no exclusive ever can be. They have a market, sure, but the whole "idol" identity of the console brand as a part of playground politics is ancient and expired.
In a way I'm only kind of stating the obvious. The only company that hasn't realized that yet is Nintendo, and they're deep into their own disney cult complete with theme parks.
@Art_Vandelay Originally I felt the same way. And then I switch to PC lol.
I think the biggest thing to keep in mind though is that it's only old "OG" console gamers that still think "exclusives sell consoles". To a large degree I think that's only ever been true for Nintendo, and the days wen Nintendo and Sega had almost entirely different libraries with very little 3rd party overlap. PS1 similarly had an almost completely different library from the other two. It's not like that anymore. We old gamers have a skewed view of consoles. Nintendo can do it because their IPs are legendary, iconic household brands well beyond the medium. Sony's really aren't. Nobody will ever be a new "Disney/Nintendo" in our lifetime. (Sort of what Totoki was touching on.) Stepping outside the Nintendo/Disney cults, the exclusives generate internet excitement, especially with the older/core base, but when you look at the sales of exclusives, and consider that the exclusives have a lot of overlapped sales to the same customers, the total of people actually buying exclusives is a small portion of the PS install base. I.E. if they never made another exclusive ever again (and they seem to be actively testing that theory now ), their install base.....wouldn't actually drop much. Most of the people buying PS's aren't buying the exclusives at all. They're buying for Fortnite, GTA, NBA, COD, etc. Not GoW, or GoT.
So while we can look and say "oh if they only locked all their games to consoles they'd sell so many more consoles", they can look at their numbers and say "wow 80% of the people buying our consoles don't even buy our games, we need to sell our games elsewhere." The other factor is among whatever percentage of PC gamers they could sell a console to to play GoW, how many of them would buy something OTHER than GoW on that console? The only point of selling the console is selling all the 3rd party games on it. if a PC gamer buys a console to play 4 exclusives, they basically cost them money by taking a subsidized console and only buying a few games. Or barely any money difference vs just selling games on PCs.
The old idea of "exclusives" was basically losing money on some prestige games to get people to commit their whole library to your publishing arm. Once they started spending $200M+ on these games, they're just another 3rd party publisher, the whole losing on exclusives thing doesn't work. Especially when most of their platform customers aren't even interested.
Others have already said it, but the PC market is a bit different. It mostly doesn't react to the FOMO aspect that Sony has cultivated on its own platforms, and is generally patient to wait for deep sales. PC doesn't so much do the blockbuster day 1 launch weekend sale thing and relies more on long tail steady sales over time with discounts. Games don't sell all at once as easily (outside a few franchises) but sell much longer term.
The other factor here is of course it's a sequel and despite the PS praise heaped over GoW18, I've always felt that praise has been way overhyped. It's a decent game but it's not this second coming people make it out to be. More of the same outside the PS fanfare machine, isn't going to be as popular on a sequel especially years after the hype wears down. And finally, yeah, the PSN logins removed it from chunks of market it had before.
Hooolyyy fuuudge. They bet the bank on a game that didn't survive 2 weeks. No wonder they're nickel and doming everyone, they lost their shirts on the worst gamble ever. This makes Redfall look good.
What's even more troubling is hearing they have games that cost more than this in the works. $300M on Spiderman was too much. $400M on this was beyond belief. They should not be spending more than that, and should be spending less than that on video game production. What is WRONG with them spending that kind of money on volatile products that can sink or swim? Do they not have any kind of grounding on what acceptable risk is for these investments? Do they believe themself above failure? That is not at all how Sony used to make games and hit the top. That's how Activision made games, and all that got them was bought out.
More and more I feel like Sony Pictures took over SIE at some point and they're running their games division like their film studio. Only even more expensively.
I'm not sure why people are skeptical the game would have cost and been managed this way though. These guys are Bungie spinoffs. This is the exact SAME hot water Bungie is in.
I said in the beginning Hulst needed to go with Ryan, and I'm now starting to wonder if Hulst needed to go BEFORE Ryan rather than just take up his seat.
@Titntin "indeed you wear you team green credentials with pride and defend almost anything they do."
Uh, no, clearly you haven't been reading PX enough and have missed my pillorying them continuously as well. I'm fed up with both of them. At one point I was ready to go back to being 100% pure pony, until I realized what Sony is going to become, as they always do, without competition, and decided to rinse my hands of both of them and go back to PC. The Xbox is now sitting in a pile in the corner with other obsolete consoles. But I do still use some of their PC services as I do already have an investment in software with them and would still recommend XBs for some players. Keeping the PS hooked up for now, but whether I continue with their hardware ecosystem depends on how their PC support fleshes out. Nintendo's Nintendo. It's like buying heroin. It costs too much and you hate what it does to you, but once you're in you don't have a choice.
But you're also right that I'm clearly not Sony's market if this is what their market eats up. I still find the TLOU2 remake disgraceful but I do question its sales. I.E. If they had never made a "remakester" and simply ADVERTISED the existing remake that was already on the market in conjunction with the TV show, would it have sold just as well? I.E. did the "remakester" cause it to sell, or did putting a spotlight on the game, whichever version along with the show generate those sales and it just so happened the "newest version" is the one they put the spotlight on?
I.E. if I put New Coke on the shelves and run a big marketing campaign around New Coke, and New Coke happens to sell well during that time, do I celebrate how much more popular New Coke is?
If the masses that make up PS's market want to be sold old things in new packages at higher prices, then yes, I'm clearly not PS's market. There's a certain point where celebrating these game companies clever profit angles should be taken over to finance and investment forums instead of gaming forums.
"In a world where new IP's are often culled before they are even launched, your successful IP's must be leveraged to make as much as possible or there will be nothing."
I do agree with that being the way it is, but it doesn't mean we should ever be celebrating that. That's what became of Hollywood and it's endless regurgitation of the same thing. Maybe gaming is doomed to the same path, but I surely won't celebrate it.
What I find most depressing about it all is the masses seem to shovel money into endlessly recycled media products. The media consumer is clearly not an educated consumer (as if reality TV didn't tell us that) but video game consumers used to be a more thoughtful lot. It seems that era is now over, and game consumers are the same mindless drones as the rest of media consumers these days.
@Matroska well I still didn't trust the "it was more expensive" fallacy because it included hardware including its own storage so it's like getting an SSD etc the game. BUT even today that way Mario 1, 2, 3, lost levels all together, so for 4 games of era relevant games for $100 checks out still.
Lool the amount of time I spent on the nes versions of those games was more than I spent getting the hzd platinum! Replays of course but that was the era. Especially 3, still one of the greatest games of all time.
Yeah, I see that you mean. I definitely feel the speeding of time horribly but I think In this case it's just that tech so rapidly changed back then so 3 years was a new world and today we get more reflection on water in 10. We're not used to graphics tech being mature.
I think the gaming industry especially consoles didn't have a plan for tech plateauing and were seeing them panic in real time now that it hit them. Yokoi at Nintendo knew. But the rest of the industry just planned on astronomical enhancement forever.
Ironically they could still have that golden goose. VR is still right there. But nobody's been able to get public buy in.
@Matroska The time between sequels isn't the same thing as the time between reselling the exact same game with adjustments. I mean hzd remastered is a longer period of time vs hfw, but the difference is they didn't actually look that different, especially if you compare the PC version enhancements most of which would work on PS5 and, like the PC version shouldn't need a different license to do so.
It feels like gaming has learned the Disney Vault trick. Why make new games when you can rerelease the old one with cleaned up video and audio? Now I'm STEREO!
The real issue is a PS4 game and a PS5 game are the same thing. There's no great leap making a game feel dated. PS2 games look and handle terribly compared to modern. but a PS4 game and PS5 game are the same thing. Heck the better looking sequel was built for PS4 too.
And super Mario all stars was a collection of ALL the games remastered, plus the new lost levels all for one price.
When we get hzd, hfw, Lego horizon, horizon 3, and horizon online, all remastered all for $70, then we can compare it to all stars.
Or they can add Funky Aloy and we can compare it to something else 😂
@LogicStrikesAgain "hero shooter before, i played the beta and i dont really understand whats so wrong with the game?"
I think that's the point. Everyone else who was the market already have played other hero shooters that were better, more unique, more interesting, more free, or all of the above and have played them since 2016, and either burned or long ago or is still playing one of those. This offered no compelling reason to play it instead of what is potential players were already invested in. Doesn't matter if it's good or bad. It was a prawn diving head first into a crimson red ocean.
Absolutely amazing. Buy Bungie. Buy doomed spinoff from Bungie 1 year before they release a game obvious to all to be doomed. Kill game in 2 weeks. Kill studio. Kill half of Bungie too.
Jim and Herman somehow took a monopoly and managed to put it in danger. I think the average middle schooler would have run this video game company to greater success. They at least understand the product and the market.
@get2sammyb " He's currently CEO..."
Today.
Totoki didn't appoint himself chairman for courtside seats and free popcorn.
There's a difference between remastering old unavailable games, or games that are classic but feel too dated and would benefit from QoL or visual updates, vs games that are literally new games already, that feel no different than any current game releasing today, that already run on the platform, while the company asks you to Pony up to buy the "current" version of an already pretty new game that already runs fine. it's literally selling the same product in new packaging for triple the price and asking the consumer to politely not notice.
These companies need to start looking at the CONSUMER rather than their internal goals as they get forever more out of touch with their own market. If they want to use a 5 year old game and have trainees rebuild it, that's fine. Don't sell it like a new product. Don't ask customers to pay more to crowdfund your employee training, don't have marketing pretend you're selling something new when you're not, and maybe, just maybe, don't fire the people that already knew WTF they were doing so you don't have to onboard hundreds of wet behind the ears just out of school "cheap" trainees every other year and figure out how to pay for it? Just a thought.
PS4: God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted 4, Days Gone.
PS5: God of War (remaster), Horizon Zero Dawn (remastered) Uncharted 4 (remastered), Days Gone, (remastered)
PS6 :God of war (remaster (new ver 2028 Edition))) Horizon Zero Dawn (remastered (3rd gen)), Uncharted 4 (remastered) (newst, updated ver)), Days Gone (remastered (2029 update 3 gen newest ver))
Ok, got to admit, that's kinda awseome. To bad it'll be scalped. Too bad I already have an edge controller, and I don't love it enough to buy a second. I was tempted for a moment, but I just don't see me using it that often in PC land. Tempting though. It really was. If they had that Edge at launch I'd have bought it for sure though.
Funny that the slim fits the theme more than the Pro lol.
@The_ghostmen I've bought it twice, once on PS5, once on PC, and still haven't played it yet! I've heard from a lot of people that it's beautiful but a worse game than the first, so even though I love the original enough that it's one of my only platinums, I keep putting off playing hfw.
That said, I intend to play at least part of it modded for VR on PC so I think seeing the world in full 3d might bias me to like it more than I might have when I do
@Markatron84 that one needs a remake on a new engine. Look at the lack of ray tracing, I can still tell the difference between photos of real Legos. I'm not sure a remaster is enough
Comments 6,961
Re: Rumour: PS6 Could Span a Console and Handheld Device
@Vaako007 Honestly that's not a bad plan. All but Nintendo are just chasing trying to be better PCs. At first they were chasing cheaper. Now they're not even necessarily cheaper all costs considered. And in the end that's all they really are. Weak PCs for marginally less money. There's nothing exciting about them except as an appliance to turn video games on. I think a "special" kind of gaming box would be much more interesting, but I think the problem is 3rd party. All the real money comes from selling 3rd party games, and the 3rd parties are insistent that what they want is just a bunch of PCs to copy and paste games to. They can't make money at what they're spending even with that let alone a bespoke console. Sony would probably love to do that for themselves, but it would be another WiiU, a bespoke console supported by Sony and no one else, and without that 30% of tons of software sales, there's no console (or it's the Saturn )
FWIW, PC doesn't mean desk and monitor. Hasn't for ages. Yeah, for certain games like Dota, WoW, or Starcraft 2, you kinda need that. But for the same games that are on console it's almost as couch friendly as console. Just plug into the TV. You do have do to a little more setup vs just "plug in and turn on", but using Steam Big Picture mode, for a console-like experience is a few mouse clicks of setup. Or if you use multiple storefronts (I do), installing Playnite or something similar brings it all together. You can even skin it to look like a PS4, PS5, Deck, X1, or XSX. After you set it up how you want the only thing that's really less convenient than console for the couch is that while you don't NEED a keyboard and mouse, there's a lot of moments where it's kind of necessary. A $25 wireless keybo/trackpad solves that, but it's a "second controller" to keep around for occasional use, namely for login, or older games with launchers that don't work with controller (FF13, Rune Factory 5, stuff like that.) The other is not all games behave nicely with sleep/hibernate, while console suspend is a lot more reliable (that said, I've had a lot of anomalies with PS5 Sleep and XSX Quick Resume with some games as well. Only switch seems to get it right probably because Android handles that stuff by default.) All that to say, never rule out PC entirely, if you're ever so inclined, just because you think it's not couch friendly. It is, with a little bit of setup, and yes a wireless keyboard for when you need it (I have a little controller-sized one that's kind of like the old PS3 keyboard attachment for controllers, but not attached.
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Review Bombed Over PSN Requirement
@Fiendish-Beaver Very possible, but I'm not sure sub numbers will impress shareholders without a matching boost to subscription revenue, which this does not generate. If they're doing it for that, it's a very shallow and useless benefit to them, their share holders will not be impressed by numbers that don't include dollar signs.
@Shalooda I agree it's a dubious behavior, however, it's also the best option and largest megaphone to stage a meaningful "civil disobedience" style protest in a digital format. If they were not doing this and influencing the game's rating, nobody would even be talking about the message they're sending. So I'd say it's effective and working, even if I don't think I'd do that, personally.
Though Sony's long term "fix" will likely be stop supporting other storefront and try to sell through only their own, and disable reviews. Taking their ball and going home then wondering why sales suck.
Re: State of Play Confirmed for Tomorrow, 20+ PS5, PSVR2 Games Included
Every time they say "PSVR2" games I think they're actually going to show interesting new PSVR2 games instead of ones they've already told us about or highlighting an upcoming indie or two, wedged bewteen 8 minutes of Marathon and the PlayStation Pocket Fisherman.
Re: Scalpers Want $10k to Try to Buy You a 30th Anniversary PS5 Pro
The kind of people that would spend $10,000 to have someone else attempt to get them a $700 plastic toy in new paint that isn't actually worth that price, is precisely the kind of consumer that Sony is targeting as their core market, and is also the kind of whale that drives the mobile industry, and has led the entire gaming industry to be where it is. Unfortunately these people really do exist. If you make 7 figures and can't figure out how to tie your own shoelaces, and can't be bothered to learn how, just pay someone else 5 figures to do it for you. Doesn't cost much.
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Review Bombed Over PSN Requirement
@Intr1n5ic It's not just crossplay though, SoT is still on the same world servers at MS, just filtered for PS only if so inclined. I totally understand accounts for shared world games. Helldivers not so much because it's just match making, not a world server. And obviously not single player games. There's a big difference there.
I get your point about refunding just to post the review,I wouldn't do that either, but I also get it. It's a form of protest. Like sit down strikes and burning draft cards, civil disobedience is the only way the masses can get messages to the powers that rule over them in ways that make them have to react. The alternative is doing nothing, bending over and accepting the status quo. It may not work or it may, but if a plurality decides the line can be drawn here while Sony is fresh in the pool they may force change. and if they can force Sony to change that puts blood in the water to push ea, Ubisoft and others after. I get your point. But if people didn't push to change things for the better, we'd still be living in fiefdoms. Sadly people stopped for too long and were close to corporate fiefdoms already.
Console customers like steam customers already have an account for the drm of their choice. Unless it's a server login for a shared world, console customers should also be up in arms about secondary accounts in games. It's less common on console but it's there too and should not be.
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Review Bombed Over PSN Requirement
@Intr1n5ic Sea of Thieves is a shared world online server. Like FFXIV, and other MMOs. You have to have an account on the server to log in to be in the game. GoW is not. And yes, HiFi Rush also is not and people haven't been happy with Bethesda doing that stuff either. And EA, Ubisoft have been nemesis of the community forever.
That said, console players SHOULD be upset about these things. But by nature the console audience isn't necessarily technically inclined while the PC audience is much more aware of data rights and privacy issues and therefore much more likely to raise voices over it.
As for PSN security I can only say I've only had a credit card compromised once, and Sony was the culprit.........
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Review Bombed Over PSN Requirement
It's not a review bomb if it's a negative review based on criticism of the game as delivered. Mandatory data harvesting is legitimate serious criticism. Or does everyone forget why the Xbox One got destroyed before it launched?
Off the top of my head companies that make you do this for their games that are not inherently multiplayer are Ubisoft, EA, Sony, Rockstar, and Bethesda. All except Bethesda aren't exactly darlings of consumer confidence. Other companies including MS do require for online focused games.
Ubisoft uses it as DRM and ops out of family sharing. Sony at least doesn't, but that also means the data harvesting is the only purpose. Users criticizing that are genuine criticisms.
Re: 30th Anniversary PS5 Slim, DualSense Prices Leaked
@jrt87 It's like every corporation in the world thought The Hunger Games was a how-to guide.
Re: Atlus Sponsors Conveniently Named F1 Racer for Metaphor: ReFantazio Ad
That's....a reach. I think the folks at Atlus are a little too high minded for the marketing game 😂
Re: Annapurna Says Blade Runner 2033: Labyrinth Still Happening Despite Entire Dev Team's Departure
What a coinkeydink. Annapurna has no employees. Firewalk employees have no company. It must be fate ❤️
Re: 30th Anniversary PS5 Slim, DualSense Prices Leaked
@KundaliniRising333 Sony has recognized their market is trained by the mobile market. They'res lawyers in Saudi with nothing so spend money on but elite premium brand entertainment center equipment. That's their target. They're purely skimming the whales and in our newly bifurcated economy theres no shortage of whales to milk globally, even if it's only a percent of that used to be their market.
Remember the blind allegiant crowds is only a blip on their radar. Most of their market doesn't buy because PlayStation. Most buy because "default product I'm aware of". Once something looks better, it cheaper, but seems popular, that's what will be the default. Sony targeting yuppie entertainment rooms is idiotically myopic, but it's their standard practice.
When PS1 came out and I was in Sega and Nintendo I didn't understand why people would want a console from an expensive VCR maker instead of a real games company. As I load my cart with Atlus and RGG games and Sony is doing this, I'm wondering that question again.
@HamKnight That's what they were always going to do either way. See also, 4 pro. Pro will make up at most 15% of the install base. 20% if it's a shocking runaway unpredicted viral hit. I.e. most players will be on base and devs will kind of ignore pro.
Re: Rumour: Concord Cost $400 Million, Sony Believed It Was the 'Future of PlayStation'
@Ralizah That last statement I entirely agree with. That's everything right there.
As for the Xbox brand being at it height em when they went all in on console, yes, obviously, but I still think that didn't actually do them any good in the larger picture. They didn't want to have a successful console, they wanted that to be a part of their greater ecosystem. It was division under windows after all.
Re: Rumour: PS6 Could Span a Console and Handheld Device
@Ralizah lol yep. Though this time Aside, Lenovo MSI, Valve, ARE committing to it which makes it even more awkward.
Re: Rumour: PS6 Could Span a Console and Handheld Device
@tselliot I think the biggest problem with stopping scalping is that nothing about the purchase is invalid. It's an actual sale to actual people. It's just that their intent isn't to own it.
The only real fix for scalping is stop using fomo as a sales tactic (will never happen) or make enough to avoid the ability for scalpers to organize to consume all available inventory to control price.
There's also the legislative fix of treating organized scalping as a criminal organization but that's hard to enforce, big Corp would have a problem with that rules solid to making price fixing and supply manipulation illegal.
Then there's draconian gateways of selecting what customers may purchase which controls it better, but also raises a lot of doubts about how those customers are selected.
It's a big factor that made me want out of consoles. The 30th anniversary shows us these companies thrive on low supply, high demand, driving scalping this driving status and demand and thus driving their own prices and prestige up. Scalpers have power because Sony and Nintendo WANT them to.
It's just not fun anymore.
Re: Rumour: PS6 Could Span a Console and Handheld Device
@Vaako007 either consoles are PCs in which case they are a way worse value, or consoles are not PCs and should not be comparable to PCs pricing and upgrade strategies. Nor do most PC gamers need to upgrade to every new iteration while the console mid Gen is proposed as a fix to the obsolescence of the base model (even though it will of course not exceed 15% install base)
The pro represents a marginal upgrade that is increasingly looking like it'll be thrown out to be replaced rapidly. If consoles are into continuous upgrade cycles they've outlived their primary purpose and it's no wonder the market is losing interest.
But again we go back to "premium" and "lifestyle". Informed consumers don't pay more for that. Vain and uninformed people do. Or brand loyalists but that's a tiny niche.
Re: Rumour: PS6 Could Span a Console and Handheld Device
@Ralizah because they can't be left out if everyone else is doing it, they need the same feature checklist to avoid attrition, especially in Asia, and the existing Sony loyal will eat up anything Sony. Plus going back to Phil lol when he said they lost the worst Gen to lose because people built up their digital libraries on ps, I think Sony is very aware of that and paranoid about holding that library vendor lock as an asset now. They know they need to make sure to retain people for life based on that library and not give them egress routes.
Re: Rumour: PS6 Could Span a Console and Handheld Device
Already into ps6 conversation, sorry fans but this again indicates pro is a temporary cash grab for consumers that don't know better.
As for the handheld it makes sense. Xbox is doing it, Nintendo is built on it, and PC especially in Asia is exploding on it. Sony would be the odd dinosaur out without handheld at this point.
Though with Sonys new pricing motif, they're jumping into a red ocean history shows they're not good at competing in. It seems to me the minds behind Sonys consumer electronics businesses, which don't perform well, are now behind PlayStation. Sony likes to position their electronics as a "luxury lifestyle brand". It hasn't worked in electronics except for a subset of fans. And I think it threatens their dominance in gaming (which might be a good thing for gaming) where they're going after affluent image conscious entertainment fans, what they really have is fortnite kiddies, and what much of the gaming market that's not either wants is neither of the above. Their strength right now is that they're the default choice for anyone that doesn't want to think about it much. Not that they're sought after for brand prestige, which is that they seem too think. That places their likely direction and consumer expectation at stark odds as they enter a very red ocean
Re: PS5's Building Insurmountable Lead Over Rival, Outselling Xbox Almost 3:1
@Fiendish-Beaver lol wish I could remember who. I'm pretty sure whoever it is has DECADES on you! You'll have to take silver 🥈
Re: Rumour: Concord Cost $400 Million, Sony Believed It Was the 'Future of PlayStation'
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare "sometimes you'll get sold a turd sandwich." That already sounds like a better game design than Concord 😂
@Ralizah I still wonder about switch 2. I don't think it'll fail but if that mock-up is really true and it just looks like a refresh model of switch with more power I don't think it'll fly off shelves. The novelty sold switch 1. I think for a lot of the market that's still good enough. The Nintendo market isn't like the Sony market where selling more teraflops is a selling point. And Nintendo already said they don't need a new switch for their own games, its for third parties which I translate to meaning Nintendo's games will be more of the same and not really do much different with the new hardware. Half of Nintendo magic is doing things with weird hardware limitations. I'm sure it'll sell ok, and I'm sure there will be some games I'll want and need it for, but so far I'm not feeling energy from switch 2. Feels like switch 2 is the switch pro that was going to realise 200 years ago.
I agree with the hands off part. Phil messed up there (though no matter how bad he messed up he looks miyamoto level next to Herman and Jim. Even Phil never failed Concord-hard or anywhere close.
But I disagree on some of the rest. Merging Xbox and PC was the ORIGINAL purpose of Xbox. That's why the brand exists. It was never supposed to be a console for the sake if consoles. It was supposed to DISRUPT consoles that were disrupting the windows gaming status quo. 360 was the weird one where they went all in in console as console. It made them the most money but also took them farther from the real goal. In that sense, by merging windows and Xbox gaming, and if the next Xbox is really a PC as is rumored, Phil actually got them back on track to the original goal they strayed from, albeit not at all gracefully.
Game pass ... Yeah I think it was too soon and too much, though IDK how much was Phil and how much was corporate. Originally it was Phil. But pushing it harder than the console happened after series, and seemed to be a misguided play at Mobile. Then vanished when they got King. That has nadella all over it.
Phil made big mistakes. Corporate made even worse mistakes trading the future for the present. I think. I think a lot of things went wrong there. But honestly I think the internal tug of war did the most damage. Phil was an asset because he was direct and open in communication and setting expectations. Once the tug of war began and he'd say things corporate would change in months he lost all trust, the that's when the entire momentum collapsed. I think the biggest mistake was not actually TRYING to pretend console customers mattered to them
Re: Rumour: Concord Cost $400 Million, Sony Believed It Was the 'Future of PlayStation'
@Ralizah I think that's because he doesn't actually run the gaming business he just runs the corporate business, that's why they split the job into the Fellowship thing to break Iwatas job into 3. Furukawa IS the nondescript Japanese suit. Miyamoto quietly runs games and IP. Hardware dude is new after Takeda retired so who knows maybe that lame switch 2 is real. But all the magic is still managed by Miyamoto at the executive (not creative) level. From beginning to today, he's always been the secret sauce over there.
Phil's actually great at running the gaming business he's just not good at running... Business business.
Re: Rumour: Concord Cost $400 Million, Sony Believed It Was the 'Future of PlayStation'
Yep. An ad man, a bit of a technophile, his Ubisoft experience was an internship in marketing, his real background was just Phillips marketing in TV's and electronics. And then straight to guerilla. No idea how he rose up the ranks but that's on Jim seeing a fellow traveler in hulst. Both of them just know how to sell stuff to people.
Meanwhile at NOA we have Doug Bowser, from P&G, like Reggie, guys that know snack food, toothpaste, and bath soap. Furukawa the banker.
And we wonder what's wrong with gaming when nobody that runs the business understands the business. Phil Spencer knows but can't figure out business and marketing. Spencer/Hulst 2024?
Re: PS5's Building Insurmountable Lead Over Rival, Outselling Xbox Almost 3:1
@GreatAuk I completely agree. I do fear the price will be high. Phil talked and Moore's law ending making the subsidy model difficult to sustain and consoles are going to become more expensive than people are used to. So I think they're planning to go expensive (plus the handheld.). And I think they can't afford to do that either. But I also think it's true they're going to try to merge console and PC, which was the original point of Xbox.... They didn't mention steam, but if they DID manage to get steam and all the others on there and make it more a full windows machine with console ease, AND keep Prices accessible, Sony would need to try much harder to not become an island.
Re: Rumour: Concord Cost $400 Million, Sony Believed It Was the 'Future of PlayStation'
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare Didn't he come from marketing at Phillips? He and Jim are both ad men. Ad men know only one thing: spending money. How they got to the top I'll never know.
Re: PS5's Building Insurmountable Lead Over Rival, Outselling Xbox Almost 3:1
@GreatAuk It's all but announced they're working on a handheld. They have said they're working on a Gen system that will "be the greatest technological leap in console history". I'm guessing that means AI. Could all be noise. Rumor says it'll really be a PC in console form factor with PC storefronts (MS has talked about the multiple store fronts like epic.)
So yes, and there's lots of theories and I do believe it will happen. But you never know how they'll botch it.
Re: PS5's Building Insurmountable Lead Over Rival, Outselling Xbox Almost 3:1
@Fiendish-Beaver I can't remember who but I recall at least one person here that could still call you a kid.... I'm pretty sure the title of Elder Pony is not yours so can claim, I'm afraid!
@Toot1st Exactly! People keep going on about exclusives and Sony porting to PC but exactly what you say is that drives their market today, and they know that.
@Sakai IIRC the 2:1 is lifetime, including launch where Xbox had a decent start and good momentum. 3:1 is the current year after Xbox declared they dgaf.
Re: Reaction: Why There Are So Many Unnecessary PS5 Remasters for Games That Don't Need Them
@Titntin Hah, thanks for the kind epilogue and although we fight like a married couple, you're alright and I enjoy our exchanges regardless, it's a different perspective either way! You may want to change your Muppet of choice to Oscar though
As for my gaming right now I'm knee deep in Meta stuff on quest 3 while the weather allows more active gaming, and mixing it with an indecisive mishmash of other games on my Ally that I'll never complete because I keep starting all of them and jumping around lol (p3r, harvestella, rune factory 5, revisiting ff13 (into the trilogy I skipped ... Someday), armored core 5, little kitty, p5 strikers (restarting it),plus like 50 things not installed I keep getting tempted to install lol. On the big screen once the weather turns. Dunno, I'm probably going to go all in on trying vr mods for tons of stuff I played in the past but never in VR. And flight Sim. I've a mountain of stuff and I keep trying to play it all at once. Plus I'm only into the 1st expansion if FFXIV. Hiatus for now. Just bought dd2 hoping it runs half decent on PC. I never finish games but I play lots of them 😂
Re: Reaction: Why There Are So Many Unnecessary PS5 Remasters for Games That Don't Need Them
@Titntin "ve never even seen you talk abiut a game youve played or enjoyed. It appears you dont play games at all and simply enjoy riding the next 'injustice wave' "
Eh, again, no, I think we just have different taste in games and you're not seeing that (though I'm pretty sure we did both just squealed like school girls over Pirate Majima so we're not entirely different 😆). Plus I'm big on VR games as you know so I have a lot of positive comments in those platforms you're not into.
Plenty of good games it's just that most of them aren't the hyped ones, and the hyped ones are usually fifty shades of awful/offensive. And not from any of the platform holders these days.
Astrobot is great looking but holding off for PC port and inevitable vr mod for the way it should be
Re: Concord Dev Could Close After Director of PS5, PC Disaster Steps Down
@jrt87 I agree but otoh, I remember when the container ship carrying snes for export required a JSDF naval escort due to a reasonable suspicion that the Yakuza were planning to hijack it to get the SNESes. Cue Pirate Majima jokes here. Maybe the more things change the more the stay the same 😂
I have an endless pile of Atlus games to get through, Ys X... Bought it twice and still have not played it. I need to buy it again on steam darnit. I'm a monster. Or monstum?
But yeah the fomo beat the scalpers game is another reason I wanted out of console. Yeah gpus have that too but there's zero reason to actually get a lunch gpu. I just fear how Nvidia pricing will go next time especially with console prices jumping. $2k for 5090 wouldn't surprise me at all.
@HonestHick I think a lot of the user base is so emotionally attached to a company that sucked long before PlayStation existed, they'll defend to to the end. . I think the mass market won't be pleased though. And I think Sony is in for a shock on ps6. They will charge high and the economy will still suck. These companies don't get that people spending their savings is what held the economy together. The savings are gone now. They're left selling expensive things to a luxury market where most of that market isn't into games. They'll sell less hardware and way less software. And they won't have the 2020 shortages to make getting a PS5 a necessity even if you don't actually want one just because it's the thing to get which happened this time.
Re: Concord Dev Could Close After Director of PS5, PC Disaster Steps Down
@HonestHick
Ff16, yeah 4090 gets like 54fps with drops at 4k ultra, 4070 ti super gets like 34 and that punches well above Pros weight class. The biggest problem is low to ultra isn't very different and only offers slight improvement. It runs fine with dlss and frame gen, but even frame gen when dynamic res is on produces motion artifacts.
I'm thinking pro may not use ultra and will render 1080p. Not sure if can even do 1400 on that game. AI for the rest.
I did see that people are turning ssr and ao off for more stable fps without frame Gen or dynamic res and it's solid 60. Seems like water in particular hits the ssr hard and that's part of what cripples fps. That's the kind of thing thats nice on PC is being able to turn faff like that off. I don't care if reflections on the water are anatomically correct, I just want combat to be fluid in a freaking action game.
Whole industry is so broken.
Edit: yeah those 30th are extremely pretty, but 12000 limited edition, bundle only....... Insanity. Is just like TVs. Thing is Sony is struggling with sales. And what does Sony do whenever sales struggle? Go up market! It's their standard corporate playbook. It fails every time but they do it every time.
Re: Concord Dev Could Close After Director of PS5, PC Disaster Steps Down
@HonestHick absolutely, though not just Jimbo but his mini-me Herman too. Always said Herman had to go too, and wasn't happy he got promoted. Was happy someone from Tokyo got control of hardware but if the pro and the 30th bundle are anything to go by I'd swear they got him from the cratering TV division.
I'm thinking 200 mil in the tank before Jim and Herman threw 200 more into it. Having to outsource Dev on a fast track can't be cheap (from a studio you just bought...) and let's be real 150m is probably the obscene marketing.
And that's 400m PLUS the cost of buying the studio. Didn't embracer buy half of square for close to that lol?
Hah yeah I'd heard 16 runs poorly on PC too, it's disgraceful. Was going to rebuy, probably still will but it's utterly insane how poorly made that game is. I'm guessing the same logic itself is tied to 30fps or something. Idk how the guy that saved xiv from that nonsense went on to make that dog of a game with a dog. Of course with dlss I'm sure it's quite a bit better than PS5, the 4k is probably pushing native but still, something is VERY wrong with that game.
Re: The Novelty of PlayStation's PC Ports Does Appear to Be Dampening
@Art_Vandelay I did cover Nintendo as a unique case. Nintendo isn't the success it is "because exclusives". It's because their exclusives are Maro, Pokemon, etc. Powerhouse iconic brands even if video games stop existing. Mk8 outsold half of Sony's games combined. Is it because it's an exclusive kart racer? No it's because it's Mario Kart. That same trick doesn't work for anyone else.
I'd also argue at this point that being a handheld running console games is even more important than Mario though. Nintendo home console sales were doomed and declining since the 90s. In a way Nintendo DOES exemplify that consoles are dying. Even Nintendo consoles were fading with the exception of Wii that captureed what would become the phone maket before phones happened. It's Nintendo handhelds that sell. Because they're handhelds. And because Mario and Pokemon.
Sony can't play the same game. The fact that they are putting games on PC because they can't make the return needed on their own platform speaks to that
Bottom line is you're not the only one going with "exclusives sell consoles" and even Mike Ybarra was selling that as the necessity for Ms too. But I don't buy it. And neither does Sony. The numbers show in black and white that's simply not what sells their consoles. It used to be. Jim thought it was. But the numbers and upper management show it's not.
Re: Reaction: Why There Are So Many Unnecessary PS5 Remasters for Games That Don't Need Them
@Titntin I think cashing in on the IP means the million sequels, spinoffs, lunch boxes, and personal care products. Just reselling the same game with more reflections for more money and advertising it as all new is every bit as exploitative as when Disney used to advertise "buy it for the last time ever on home video" to sell a bunch of VHS tapes just before DVD happened, where consumers thought they could never buy the movie again.
I do see it as exploitation. No ulterior motive, it's just offensive when companies rely on consumers being inadequately informed as their primary motivator for purchases. Didn't matter if it's video games, toothpaste, or engine oil. I think people build a mutual respect with companies that demonstrate respect for the customer, offer innovative products for reasonable prices, and don't misrepresent things. When companies get into this game of repackaging products and selling with a smirk to people that didn't know enough to recognize that it's a repackaged product for more money, they come across as getting one over on people and it doesn't sit well with those that recognize it. I don't mind them exploiting an IP by making too much of it though that's one way to kill said IP, but not just reselling it as new.
I'm not even sure the issue is console gaming going mainstream. The casuals are all but gone into phones. I'm not quite sure how we define the current market. I'm not sure the console makers really know either which is part of the problem.
Re: Like a Dragon: Pirate Yakuza in Hawaii Might Be the Series' Most Insane Game Yet, Sailing to PS5, PS4 in February
Poll option 1 and Poll option 3 really need to be merged together. This is absolute bananas and I need it.
Re: The Novelty of PlayStation's PC Ports Does Appear to Be Dampening
@Art_Vandelay I see what you're saying, but I feel the point is that that "symbol" is the hardware itself today, not the exclusives that go with it. When the majority of customers on the platform aren't interested in those exclusives to begin with that's not part of the symbol to them. The symbol is seeing the PS logo on the boards while watching TV sports, not seeing Kratos.
Where I disagree is the importance of exclusives when you look at the actual sales compared to install base.
While I do get your point about eroding the platform, I think that's a much bigger issue than "exclusives". Not for nerds on forums but for the masses. The problem is they committed generations ago to chasing PC games and PC publishers and PC developers, and the end result is what they have is a PC in a convenient shell. That ship sailed long ago. Their MAIN market right now on console is people looking for a box to play the most popular games on cheap and easy. None of their games are even close to the most popular games, and by definition, no exclusive ever can be. They have a market, sure, but the whole "idol" identity of the console brand as a part of playground politics is ancient and expired.
In a way I'm only kind of stating the obvious. The only company that hasn't realized that yet is Nintendo, and they're deep into their own disney cult complete with theme parks.
Re: The Novelty of PlayStation's PC Ports Does Appear to Be Dampening
@Art_Vandelay Originally I felt the same way. And then I switch to PC lol.
I think the biggest thing to keep in mind though is that it's only old "OG" console gamers that still think "exclusives sell consoles". To a large degree I think that's only ever been true for Nintendo, and the days wen Nintendo and Sega had almost entirely different libraries with very little 3rd party overlap. PS1 similarly had an almost completely different library from the other two. It's not like that anymore. We old gamers have a skewed view of consoles. Nintendo can do it because their IPs are legendary, iconic household brands well beyond the medium. Sony's really aren't. Nobody will ever be a new "Disney/Nintendo" in our lifetime. (Sort of what Totoki was touching on.) Stepping outside the Nintendo/Disney cults, the exclusives generate internet excitement, especially with the older/core base, but when you look at the sales of exclusives, and consider that the exclusives have a lot of overlapped sales to the same customers, the total of people actually buying exclusives is a small portion of the PS install base. I.E. if they never made another exclusive ever again (and they seem to be actively testing that theory now ), their install base.....wouldn't actually drop much. Most of the people buying PS's aren't buying the exclusives at all. They're buying for Fortnite, GTA, NBA, COD, etc. Not GoW, or GoT.
So while we can look and say "oh if they only locked all their games to consoles they'd sell so many more consoles", they can look at their numbers and say "wow 80% of the people buying our consoles don't even buy our games, we need to sell our games elsewhere." The other factor is among whatever percentage of PC gamers they could sell a console to to play GoW, how many of them would buy something OTHER than GoW on that console? The only point of selling the console is selling all the 3rd party games on it. if a PC gamer buys a console to play 4 exclusives, they basically cost them money by taking a subsidized console and only buying a few games. Or barely any money difference vs just selling games on PCs.
The old idea of "exclusives" was basically losing money on some prestige games to get people to commit their whole library to your publishing arm. Once they started spending $200M+ on these games, they're just another 3rd party publisher, the whole losing on exclusives thing doesn't work. Especially when most of their platform customers aren't even interested.
Re: The Novelty of PlayStation's PC Ports Does Appear to Be Dampening
Others have already said it, but the PC market is a bit different. It mostly doesn't react to the FOMO aspect that Sony has cultivated on its own platforms, and is generally patient to wait for deep sales. PC doesn't so much do the blockbuster day 1 launch weekend sale thing and relies more on long tail steady sales over time with discounts. Games don't sell all at once as easily (outside a few franchises) but sell much longer term.
The other factor here is of course it's a sequel and despite the PS praise heaped over GoW18, I've always felt that praise has been way overhyped. It's a decent game but it's not this second coming people make it out to be. More of the same outside the PS fanfare machine, isn't going to be as popular on a sequel especially years after the hype wears down. And finally, yeah, the PSN logins removed it from chunks of market it had before.
Re: Rumour: Concord Cost $400 Million, Sony Believed It Was the 'Future of PlayStation'
Hooolyyy fuuudge. They bet the bank on a game that didn't survive 2 weeks. No wonder they're nickel and doming everyone, they lost their shirts on the worst gamble ever. This makes Redfall look good.
What's even more troubling is hearing they have games that cost more than this in the works. $300M on Spiderman was too much. $400M on this was beyond belief. They should not be spending more than that, and should be spending less than that on video game production. What is WRONG with them spending that kind of money on volatile products that can sink or swim? Do they not have any kind of grounding on what acceptable risk is for these investments? Do they believe themself above failure? That is not at all how Sony used to make games and hit the top. That's how Activision made games, and all that got them was bought out.
More and more I feel like Sony Pictures took over SIE at some point and they're running their games division like their film studio. Only even more expensively.
I'm not sure why people are skeptical the game would have cost and been managed this way though. These guys are Bungie spinoffs. This is the exact SAME hot water Bungie is in.
I said in the beginning Hulst needed to go with Ryan, and I'm now starting to wonder if Hulst needed to go BEFORE Ryan rather than just take up his seat.
Re: Reaction: Why There Are So Many Unnecessary PS5 Remasters for Games That Don't Need Them
@Titntin "indeed you wear you team green credentials with pride and defend almost anything they do."
Uh, no, clearly you haven't been reading PX enough and have missed my pillorying them continuously as well. I'm fed up with both of them. At one point I was ready to go back to being 100% pure pony, until I realized what Sony is going to become, as they always do, without competition, and decided to rinse my hands of both of them and go back to PC. The Xbox is now sitting in a pile in the corner with other obsolete consoles. But I do still use some of their PC services as I do already have an investment in software with them and would still recommend XBs for some players. Keeping the PS hooked up for now, but whether I continue with their hardware ecosystem depends on how their PC support fleshes out. Nintendo's Nintendo. It's like buying heroin. It costs too much and you hate what it does to you, but once you're in you don't have a choice.
But you're also right that I'm clearly not Sony's market if this is what their market eats up. I still find the TLOU2 remake disgraceful but I do question its sales. I.E. If they had never made a "remakester" and simply ADVERTISED the existing remake that was already on the market in conjunction with the TV show, would it have sold just as well? I.E. did the "remakester" cause it to sell, or did putting a spotlight on the game, whichever version along with the show generate those sales and it just so happened the "newest version" is the one they put the spotlight on?
I.E. if I put New Coke on the shelves and run a big marketing campaign around New Coke, and New Coke happens to sell well during that time, do I celebrate how much more popular New Coke is?
If the masses that make up PS's market want to be sold old things in new packages at higher prices, then yes, I'm clearly not PS's market. There's a certain point where celebrating these game companies clever profit angles should be taken over to finance and investment forums instead of gaming forums.
"In a world where new IP's are often culled before they are even launched, your successful IP's must be leveraged to make as much as possible or there will be nothing."
I do agree with that being the way it is, but it doesn't mean we should ever be celebrating that. That's what became of Hollywood and it's endless regurgitation of the same thing. Maybe gaming is doomed to the same path, but I surely won't celebrate it.
What I find most depressing about it all is the masses seem to shovel money into endlessly recycled media products. The media consumer is clearly not an educated consumer (as if reality TV didn't tell us that) but video game consumers used to be a more thoughtful lot. It seems that era is now over, and game consumers are the same mindless drones as the rest of media consumers these days.
Re: Reaction: Why There Are So Many Unnecessary PS5 Remasters for Games That Don't Need Them
@Matroska well I still didn't trust the "it was more expensive" fallacy because it included hardware including its own storage so it's like getting an SSD etc the game. BUT even today that way Mario 1, 2, 3, lost levels all together, so for 4 games of era relevant games for $100 checks out still.
Lool the amount of time I spent on the nes versions of those games was more than I spent getting the hzd platinum! Replays of course but that was the era. Especially 3, still one of the greatest games of all time.
Yeah, I see that you mean. I definitely feel the speeding of time horribly but I think In this case it's just that tech so rapidly changed back then so 3 years was a new world and today we get more reflection on water in 10. We're not used to graphics tech being mature.
I think the gaming industry especially consoles didn't have a plan for tech plateauing and were seeing them panic in real time now that it hit them. Yokoi at Nintendo knew. But the rest of the industry just planned on astronomical enhancement forever.
Ironically they could still have that golden goose. VR is still right there. But nobody's been able to get public buy in.
Re: Reaction: Why There Are So Many Unnecessary PS5 Remasters for Games That Don't Need Them
@Matroska The time between sequels isn't the same thing as the time between reselling the exact same game with adjustments. I mean hzd remastered is a longer period of time vs hfw, but the difference is they didn't actually look that different, especially if you compare the PC version enhancements most of which would work on PS5 and, like the PC version shouldn't need a different license to do so.
It feels like gaming has learned the Disney Vault trick. Why make new games when you can rerelease the old one with cleaned up video and audio? Now I'm STEREO!
The real issue is a PS4 game and a PS5 game are the same thing. There's no great leap making a game feel dated. PS2 games look and handle terribly compared to modern. but a PS4 game and PS5 game are the same thing. Heck the better looking sequel was built for PS4 too.
And super Mario all stars was a collection of ALL the games remastered, plus the new lost levels all for one price.
When we get hzd, hfw, Lego horizon, horizon 3, and horizon online, all remastered all for $70, then we can compare it to all stars.
Or they can add Funky Aloy and we can compare it to something else 😂
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
@LogicStrikesAgain "hero shooter before, i played the beta and i dont really understand whats so wrong with the game?"
I think that's the point. Everyone else who was the market already have played other hero shooters that were better, more unique, more interesting, more free, or all of the above and have played them since 2016, and either burned or long ago or is still playing one of those. This offered no compelling reason to play it instead of what is potential players were already invested in. Doesn't matter if it's good or bad. It was a prawn diving head first into a crimson red ocean.
Re: Jaw-Dropping 30th Anniversary PS5 Pro Console and Accessories Will Bankrupt You
@curriemonster Funny, I always associate Clippy with Xbox.
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
Absolutely amazing. Buy Bungie. Buy doomed spinoff from Bungie 1 year before they release a game obvious to all to be doomed. Kill game in 2 weeks. Kill studio. Kill half of Bungie too.
Jim and Herman somehow took a monopoly and managed to put it in danger. I think the average middle schooler would have run this video game company to greater success. They at least understand the product and the market.
@get2sammyb " He's currently CEO..."
Today.
Totoki didn't appoint himself chairman for courtside seats and free popcorn.
Re: Reaction: Why There Are So Many Unnecessary PS5 Remasters for Games That Don't Need Them
There's a difference between remastering old unavailable games, or games that are classic but feel too dated and would benefit from QoL or visual updates, vs games that are literally new games already, that feel no different than any current game releasing today, that already run on the platform, while the company asks you to Pony up to buy the "current" version of an already pretty new game that already runs fine. it's literally selling the same product in new packaging for triple the price and asking the consumer to politely not notice.
These companies need to start looking at the CONSUMER rather than their internal goals as they get forever more out of touch with their own market. If they want to use a 5 year old game and have trainees rebuild it, that's fine. Don't sell it like a new product. Don't ask customers to pay more to crowdfund your employee training, don't have marketing pretend you're selling something new when you're not, and maybe, just maybe, don't fire the people that already knew WTF they were doing so you don't have to onboard hundreds of wet behind the ears just out of school "cheap" trainees every other year and figure out how to pay for it? Just a thought.
Re: Rumour: Days Gone PS5 Remaster Speculation Starts to Spread
PS4: God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted 4, Days Gone.
PS5: God of War (remaster), Horizon Zero Dawn (remastered) Uncharted 4 (remastered), Days Gone, (remastered)
PS6 :God of war (remaster (new ver 2028 Edition))) Horizon Zero Dawn (remastered (3rd gen)), Uncharted 4 (remastered) (newst, updated ver)), Days Gone (remastered (2029 update 3 gen newest ver))
Re: Jaw-Dropping 30th Anniversary PS5 Pro Console and Accessories Will Bankrupt You
Ok, got to admit, that's kinda awseome. To bad it'll be scalped. Too bad I already have an edge controller, and I don't love it enough to buy a second. I was tempted for a moment, but I just don't see me using it that often in PC land. Tempting though. It really was. If they had that Edge at launch I'd have bought it for sure though.
Funny that the slim fits the theme more than the Pro lol.
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
@The_ghostmen I've bought it twice, once on PS5, once on PC, and still haven't played it yet! I've heard from a lot of people that it's beautiful but a worse game than the first, so even though I love the original enough that it's one of my only platinums, I keep putting off playing hfw.
That said, I intend to play at least part of it modded for VR on PC so I think seeing the world in full 3d might bias me to like it more than I might have when I do
Re: Sony Priming 'Even Less Exciting' PS5 Remaster for State of Play
@Markatron84 that one needs a remake on a new engine. Look at the lack of ray tracing, I can still tell the difference between photos of real Legos. I'm not sure a remaster is enough
Re: Dragon Age: Inquisition Massively Oversold Projections, Remains BioWare's Biggest Game
That's surprising. It's not a bad game at all but I can't comprehend it outselling all of ME. It never seemed to make it that big.
Re: Fresh Marathon Details Cover Heroes, Pricing, and Bungie's Silence
Need to sprint through Marathon before they delete it.