@themightyant so that's not quite right... only 19% said they'd buy it, another 23% said they were waiting to see. I do agree that 19% is most probably enough of a potential pool (assuming that PushSquare in any way reflects the gaming gene pool) that for the outlay, it's most probably worth doing. However, no one would have an issue with remasters if they had a decent cadence of first party releases.
@MrPeanutbutterz they also made it part of a console pack, and gave it away for free during the pandemic (which I suspect may actually be bolstering those numbers). And I'm someone that has perhaps put in similar hours to yourself... but to be honest, that's more likely an OCD indicator rather than because I love the game (I actually really fell off the the hype train with HFW)
I think the idea to use remasters as an 'intern' project seemed like a great idea... apart from the fact that you actually need to release new games in addition. So I'm not convinced this isn't about milking it's consumer base for low-cost/low-risk remasters. Sony doing Nintendo.
@OldGamer999 I''m sure that COVID had a lot to do with delays; and I suspect that Sony Mgt thought the remake/remaster route was a low-risk (even if low pay-off) path to keep games coming out, so that the 'silence' didn't become deafening. The counter that has emerged is that Sony doesn't need first party when they can just buy timed exclusivity... and I think that's another list for another day. Either way - timed exclusives might be 'marketable' but the Sony badge of quality was what people were dedicated to.
I think this need to meet Sony standards has been their rod, because it also has meant they're (IMO) too frightened to release something that isn't polished to the nth degree; where every edge is now rounded, where (IMO again) they've started to lose the forest for the trees in terms of quality and fun experiences. That's why people have gravitated so much to AstroBot (I hope Sony doesn't get the message that we all just need more nostalgia.... when the message should be more focused and fun gaming experiences).
Sony may "win the console war" (which doesn't really exist) - but it HAS also lost it's identity as a producer of great gaming (in lieu of impressively made games). And producing one "tentpole" game a year (as they recently stated was their goal), and filling the rest with remasters/live-service was never the right direction. The hardest part of the list for me was the fact that all the games barring Returnal (which was bought) are sequels/remasters. I hope Sony hasn't forgotten how to make new games.
Just something to think about - First Party PS5 Exclusives (not including PSVR2 - of which there is 1):
2020:
PC Horizon Zero Dawn (PORT) PS5 Astro's Playroom (pack-in)
PS5 Demon Souls (REMAKE?) * (2nd party at release)
PS5 Spider-Man REMASTERED PS4/PS5 Miles Morales
2021: PS5 Returnal * (2nd party at release) PS5 Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart
PC Days Gone (PORT)
PS4/5 Ghost of Tsushima DC (REMASTERED)
PS5 Death Stranding REMASTERED (strictly 2nd party)
2022:
PC God of War (2018) (PORT)
PS5 Uncharted Legacy of Thieves (REMASTERED) PS4/5 Horizon Forbidden West
PC Spider-Man REMASTERED (PORT)
PC Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves (REMASTERED/PORT) PS4/5 Gran Turismo 7
PS5 The Last of Us Part 1 (REMAKE)
PC Miles Morales (PORT) PS4/5 God of War Ragnarok
2023:
PC Returnal (PORT)
PC The Last of Us Part 1 (PORT)
PC Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart (PORT) PS5 Spider-Man 2
2024:
PS5 The Last of Us Part 2 (REMASTERED)
PC Ghost of Tsushima DC (PORT) PS5 Concord (REMOVED) PS5 Astro Bot
Summary of First Party Output over approx 4 years of PS5: 4 PS4/5 originals 4 PS5 originals (1 deleted from existence and not counted; though Playroom most probably could count as the 5th game) 7 Remakes/Remasters (note: 6 if you exclude DS) 10 PC Ports of older PS4/5 games
Note: At least 2 more remakes/remasters to be released imminently. AND OF COURSE - this doesn't include the many more 2nd party exclusives.... which seems to be Sony's approach now. It also doesn't include MLB The Show, as these are cross-platform. It also doesn't include where 2nd party studios have worked on Sony IP (like Sack Boy / Helldivers). I also didn't include DLC (eg Burning Shores, or the Valhalla DLC)
The scary thing - in the last 4 years, PlayStation has added only a single new IP (Returnal) which was acquired... and the game that shall now never be mentioned again. I also remain unconvinced that the push to remaster/remake/port has not impacted original game releases.
@dark_knightmare2 how can this remaster be "necessary" to anyone though? Once again - it's a remaster of a perfectly good game when played at 60FPS on a PS5 patched game. I get the 'people don't need to buy it' argument; but when Sony are putting out only 1 first party game a year... but seemingly handfuls of remasters.... I think THAT's the reason why people are upset or annoyed.
@MFTWrecks thank you... my sentiment exactly. Though I think the trajectory for HZD3 is pretty well locked in, and incoming. I'm not sure if it's Hermen's influence or not, but I'm sure that Sony will just double, then triple down on the HZD and it's current bloated (and bland) direction.
@mariomaster96 well with Sony, you can never tell if they're going to remaster the game after 12 days, or remove it from ever existing. Then again... I just read a new rumour. Concord Remastered in-coming!
@get2sammyb ok - so there's 2 main games, 2 DLC's (the second was treated like a half game... given that it was PS5 only), a VR game, a lego game (about to be released), a lego set, a Multiplayer game (imminent... maybe), a mobile game (supposedly)... a netflix series (recently canned)... and god knows what else (edit: of course - I forgot the PC version). I think it's fair to say that Sony is milking the franchise for all its worth. The funny thing is - at least IMHO - the game has been steadily going downhill in terms of quality of story writing; and Aloy would have to be one of the most characterless and bland protagonists of any Sony game. AND I DID REALLY LIKE THE FIRST GAME... just it started to feel like they had ... well... jumped the shark. It is however built from one of their most amazingly good engines.
I think your voting options are a bit silly - what about people that like the game, but don't need a re-master. I would have thought that was the most obvious option (given the constant comments on HZD remasters).
@get2sammyb I think the issue with Sony is more that they don't telegraph departures that well - sometimes with less than a month's notice. It's hard to plan your games when you don't know what's going.
@Titntin no probs - and I think while I was pretty well dismissive of the Pro (at that price, without a drive - because I do collect and have a lot of legacy games on disc), I think one of the problems is that the marketing (the 9 min NOT-technical presentation) was horribly bad... and to be honest, I've felt that all PlayStation marketing has gone down the tubes since the PS5 released. There's enough information out there to suggest the advantages are much more complex than presented, but I don't expect Sony to put any effort into selling it further.
The one thing I'd say - I definitely support your stand on GP... my view is that it devalues games. You can of course argue without an (extra) barrier to entry, a lot of smaller games get much more visibility. I'm sure that's true... but I also think, even for the indie market, it then becomes a patronage system in terms of MS. I think for bigger tent-pole releases, the idea of considering them almost like F2P is quite risky for the gaming business - because at some point, people may just stop paying for the games, and then we're totally at the whim of the platform holders. Of course- everyone still keeps up the best deal in gaming mantra - whilst so many decent to good games are kinda struggling. For me - the games I've played the most this year have all been ones that I've bought outright, and not through a subscription. It's the wrong way of looking at it, but for me subscription games tend to be 'win me over in 1-2 hours, or uninstalled'; because it doesn't cost me any more other than temporary storage and time to sample. I know I just don't value those 'free' games as much as ones that I've purchased myself.
@kevinm360 It's crazy - and my heart goes out to everyone in the UK... which I had thought was a really good market for Sony. Seems like it's good, but not for the reasons I thought.
@kevinm360 how about they show us.... for a full experience of the advantage. At the moment, there's just not enough info to make real judgements - but I can judge that AUD1400 IS A LOT OF MONEY.
Try AUD1199 in Australian dollars (not sure what the conversion rate to dollarydoos are). The AUD 1035 is if you're doing a straight conversion from USD... Playstation then adds and additional 16% (ok - being generous 10% of that is GST).
If you want to buy it all - console+stand+drive = AUD1410 (tax inclusive) which is about USD953.... so not as bad as some (is that good?.....)
@ZeD I saw the times (which don't mean much this side of the international... being half a day ahead of most of Europe). I meant, it just seems like extra hassle that most players don't need. A wholly first world problem.
@Titntin not quite the right comparison - the usd600 'Galaxy Black' XB also comes with a drive.... and doesn't need a stand. So the fair comparison is $600 vs about $800... (edit - and don't get me started on Aussie prices) and yes, even at that, it might be reasonable depending on how the performance translates to actual gameplay improvements - when you filter it by cost-to-developer and whether they think an extra mode is worth it (for a small install base). Jury's out I think as to the ultimate value.
@Rob3008 given that seemingly about half of PS4 owners haven't even bothered to buy a PS5 (almost 4 years in), I don't think we need worry about PS6 anytime soon. The fact that you can count "first party" PS5 exclusives almost on one hand halfway through the generation, a little more concerning... (edit - not including remakes/remasters)
So why isn't Plucky Squire available with the others? To make sure it's not lost in the other games - if so, I think it's not a good idea. Wouldn't it be better to release it as a whole, otherwise people (like me) will be jumping on to get it with the rest of the games, and be confused as to why it's nowhere to be seen.
I guess I'm missing the date/time of release? I'm in Australia btw.
Isn't there clearly a disconnect when the major (critic) metacritic scores are by the same outlets that then comment on the metacritic score; thus reinforcing whatever narrative is being built within the games journalism clique.
My speculation is that they will focus on 3rd party (AC Shadows) and Death Stranding 2 including PS5Pro enhancements; some re-hashes (Silent Hill 2 (last trailer); Alien Rogue Incursion; Slitterhead). I know people want GoT2; and you'd think if it's coming they'd be aiming for a March release (for FY reasons)... fingers crossed, I know they're not really hiring anymore so they're likely in the clean-up phase. I think 50-50 on whether FairGame$ gets a showing (I think Sony marketing is s**ting bricks about that game now).... and they have a mountain of fundamental programmer positions going, suggesting they're still in the build phase. I do think it's possible we'll get a sneak peak at an Atreus GoW half-game... that needs to be close. Other than that... I don't see a lot to expect. Hope I'm wrong..
@Rob_230 the worrying thing is that Sony announced in their last investor call that they were aiming for (at best) 1 major tentpole game per year.... I think the idea of multiple games being worked on in any of these studios (other than Insomniac) is gone... my guess is that they have 70% of their teams working on their single super-sized major releases, and 10% doing remasters and 20% doing concept design for new IP (yes - of course these are all out my whazoo). The problem is that their major releases are taking up increasingly more effort to achieve even 5-6 year turn-arounds. I also suspect that they've thrown away more concept games than what we can imagine. I think the problem is that they're losing the culture of coming up with new IP.
Yep - I'm always framerate first myself (assuming it's not a broken mode that can happen)... the truth is that for most games, once you've decided which way you want to play, you just accept it and don't think about it again.
@Rich33 to be honest, I think for me personally I was more miffed at how poor the presentation was, and how insulting it was to call this a "technical presentation". I mean, they can and should do a high-level pitch-reel (but even then, this did such a poor job of selling it IMO); but they missed the opportunity to give the "enthusiasts" a real look at the tech...which I think was a mistake to dumb down things for what is going to be a very niche product.
I suspect the problem is, once you scratch below the "no more modes" pitch, and actually think about how it will work in reality, it gets complicated. My guess is there will end up being more modes (Performance 120FPS (PSSR+); Performance 40K60FPS (PSSRlite); Fidelity (60FPS+RTGI); Fidelity+ (30FPS; ALL RayTrace/PathTrace) etc; ie more like PC. Though it will ultimately depend on whether devs want to do anything more than the easiest option; so enhancements might be really limited.
edit - and yes, the 75% preferring performance mode was really interesting... but my impression on that is that for 75% of people, the graphics of a PS5Pro aren't that interesting... so at best they are targeting the 25% (it might only be 5-10% that actually really care enough to pay 700USD for both... sort of... kind of... if the devs support it.... and it's not CPU bound etc.
And thanks for the effort to read to the bottom - again.
@Rich33 I understand that sentiment - and it worries me that having the PS5Pro takes pressure off devs to actually optimize. I think however, giving in and signalling to Sony (and MS) that they can just create the FOMO culture is going to end badly for what used to be an affordable hobby for all people. Sigh.
@Korgon I do think it should be supported - however, I also believe that you shouldn't support poor pricing... but to be real, I just don't need to play it now... it's not going anywhere.
@NEStalgia so I totally agree there's some cognitive dissonance going on in Sony (and the rest of the gaming industry). As someone that values physical releases however, I would point out that PS5(disc) is still outselling PS5(digital) 9:2 in Japan. Which says something - at least in terms of legacy games.
I personally think that the sales in Japan most likely represents a lack of real interest or poor pricing (or perceived value)... looking at FF16, that sold about 340,000 physical copies in Japan in the first week, so sales are there for the right game, and sufficient interest - though this is about half previous entries, which likely points to changing tastes and increasing digital sales proportions.
I know I haven't bought AstroBot - because in my case I don't feel a rush to buy it, and I think the digital price on the storefront (110 AUD / 74 USD) is too high in Australia (even though I could buy at a cheaper 90AUD / 60 USD) price physically. I want it to succeed - but I've just spent too much money in the last 6 months on games I've yet to play. I also think that this points to a possible disconnect between people in comment sections, and the general population (as you were alluding to).
@Korgon or it means that people felt it wasn't priced right... just because you (or let's say everyone on the PushSquare comment section) thought it brilliant - I've not played it, but happy to assume it is - maybe this is saying that people are holding off because there's no need to rush to purchase. Especially at full price.
For me, and this is just my personal position, I have a crap-tonne of new-ish games in my backlog that I've already bought, and in Australia AstroBot retails physically and digitally at 110AUD (or USD74) - including on PlayStation's digital shopfront. You can get it down as low as 90AUD physically (60USD) - assuming you aren't digital only. So for me - $110 is WAY TOO MUCH TO PAY. But that's just me. I feel no FOMO to wait until it gets cheaper.
So the PS5 Pro is very divisive; and the responses seem to fit two basic modes: (1) it's offensively expensive and Sony are crazy; and (2) I can afford to buy the best, and all the poor people can just suck it. If we're being objective; you get an axtra1.2ish TB of internal storage (which is not essential), and the "opportunity" to improve frame-rates... and the expense of an addition USD200 and the loss of a drive (which is essential to play owned physical media).
It's impossible to know the real value however at the moment, because (a) the technical details are so 'poorly articulated' (even though there's plenty of leaks); (b) the 'game boost' is so vaguely described and might be very inconsequential; (c) it's unknown if you can access the raw GPU power AND additional RT AND upscaling all simultaneously, or whether this is a zero sum game; (d) the game can't do anything with a capped framerate game other than stabilize it; (e) a CPU capped game will likely not have framerates improved; (f) it's impossible to know at this stage whether developers will retro-fit enhanced modes (or to what extent they will); it's impossible to know how much third party devs will support additional features in the end, or how much it will be used to just paste over non-optimisation gaps.
If the pro can reliably make most of your existing uncapped games (that aren't capped at 30FPS) run at a smooth 60 at fidelity settings; or is able to keep resolutions high without dynamic dips (vaseline lens style) then it might be worth it; and provide substantially improved visuals for games moving forward. If you have the spare money to spend on something unnecessary. That's a value decision that only individuals can make; and if Sony sells Boxes A and B, and someone wants to pay $300 more for box B+drive then that's totally fine.
I think the real question however - is not really about whether it's too expensive; or whether it's still good value... it's whether this was a business strategy that makes sense for Sony. For the PS4 Pro it did, because Sony didn't have a 4K viable box, and the competition did; in this case, it feels very questionable to me because there's no new consumer-facing feature obvious in the PS5Pro. Saying more money = better performance is obvious (but it's also a PC argument; and will lead to people inevitably realising that paying for performance is better in the PC world). Should Sony have spent the R&D money on something that (IMO) only 5% of people will take up; but create a two tiered performance split? For me personally, until they reveal more (and let people do actual real world tests) I don't think it's worth it from a gaming perspective, or from a corporate perspective (especially when the AUD price with drive is converted to USD914; and I know that in other parts it's even worse). We'll see more once it hits reviewers/analysts and we get to see real performance benefits.
And if you read down this far - well done... but remember, the concept of console gaming was always about trying to have a good value gaming experience. I don't personally want the mobile phone mentality to sneak into consoles. That's how we get new consoles coming out every year for that 5-10% additional boost.
@nedbvai so let me get this right... you want Sony to force developers to support a console that hardly anyone will buy, just because you seem to have too much money to waste on tech-bling to make you feel good about yourself? Yes - if you don't have the money don't buy it... that's an easy statement. The real question is - why should Sony spend money developing a system for the 5% of people that actually might buy it? Rather than say, developing games that actually work well on the PS5?
@get2sammyb and then at the same time you publish a shill-piece saying how it's almost like seeing for the first time... and the point I believe was - the image used looks like it was modified to make it look much more meaningful. A lot of people skim these pieces, and the less astute might actually come out of this believing these images were real.
@Elodin they can't afford to make GTA6 run crap, because next to no-one will own a PS5 Pro... they would literally be shooting themselves in the foot. Even as it is - this console is requiring developers to spend time and effort to develop for a console that almost no one will own. Questionable how much impact it really has in the third-party world.
So the point is - this 9m teaser didn't provide ANY reason to buy a PS5 Pro - especially at USD200 mark up (admittedly you're swapping a disc drive for an extra 1.2 GB SSD). The comparisons they showed were meaningless in a gaming context... and worryingly, don't even go so far as to say you can achieve 60FPS on the games that they mentioned. And seriously - after all this, such a pitiful selection of games... no Elden Ring, no Cyberpunk, no Baldurs Gate 3... (perhaps because these might be CPU limited?). This just sounds to me like whale-hunting for all the people who just want to advertise their over-monetized stupidity and vanity. Show some real value, and it might be a conversation... at the moment, this just feels half-baked. I just can't believe they don't sell a boxed disc-version... that's just insane in my opinion, if they're selling to the niche gamer enthusiast market.
So I'm just curious if any of you have actually read the blog-post... and if anyone else finds it incredibly cringe to have Hermen interviewing Nicolas Doucet (the studio director of Team Asobi) - actually it was an "invisible" un-attributed interviewer, but it felt more like a Hermen PR piece. I totally believe Sony should take the claps when they do well, as well as the criticism when they do poorly... but how about get someone out of the bunker for real, rather than have bots writing fluff pieces.
@Sequel You do realize that AstroBot (beyond VR) came out of Jim's time at PS... the problem is, everyone is happy to blame him for everything that went wrong, but then totally disown any involvement in anything that went right. The truth is - he most likely had only a direct responsibility for both good and bad. Especially when it came to specific games.
@ATaco to be fair... I think there's a real risk of it. Sony aren't the company to care about what customers think... Concord being canned isn't about us, it's purely financial reasoning.
@ZeD Yep - that slow tempo of games (and the astronomical budgets) make me very worried for the sustainability of Sony. And now, they seem to be flitting all over the place, trying to just throw S**t at the wall to see what sticks. Which is fine, I guess... if you've got plenty of wall (which they don't). Their current tempo means we'll be lucky to get a major game each year...
Edit - and no, other than the 'likely' Ghost 2 and eventually Wolverine.... nothing. Death Stranding is all well and good, but it's second party, and well, just Kojima. At the end of the day, Sony has long ago lost any interest in actually making it's customers excited... because advertising costs money; and they thought we'd just buy whatever was put in front of us.
@crossbit what un-written law are you talking about (in terms of sequels)? The problem is either they intentionally created barriers (by thinking their art was more important than sales), or didn't innovate (eg SM2 was literally more of the same, but with worse writing), or just become boring (I liked HZD, but HFW was just a junk story and intentionally made Aloy even MORE ANNOYING). Ragnarok was ok... but also suffered from no innovation, and a pretty boring story/cringe writing).
PS4 was the peak for PlayStation in recent times... and to be honest, I have no interesting in re-playing any of my Sony PS5 games. There's something off about the entire management team IMO. And that's a real worrying sign for Sony (who is paying 100's of millions for games that they are just bloating beyond all belief to make them feel worth the price), and just not selling copies.
@AdamNovice I totally agree that Sony needs to diversify it's game's portfolio - hell, a year ago everyone was criticizing Sony for only putting out the sad Dad third person games now... and the reality is, if they lose the monopoly of their store front, they might actually be in some serious financial problems without live service bucks (which might be sold on their own store-fronts). The problem is - they seemingly don't have the sense of a 10 year old in terms of knowing what makes a fun and engaging game these days. I don't know if it's a generational shift, but even their 'tried and true' SP experiences are starting to go south very quickly, buried under their own huge budgets, poor writing/concepting, and political messaging. As much as I don't like the MS model (and in particular GP), I think they might be making an astute move... and they certainly seem to get multi-player and live service.
@DualWielding you can bet that Sony invested a lot of money on the Amazon show... I mean, why else would ANYONE make a show about Concord? Because it was being funded by Sony is why. This is yet another example of the current management team thinking that they are cross-media moguls, just because of TLOU... and all the other focus on TV and films. Problem is - the wake up call won't be heard, under the chorus of "toxic fan-base"
I'm glad that people are finally realising that they can't put all the blame on Jim Ryan... and give Hermen a pass. I have to say, his record is not looking great, and I think the problem is he was seen as a Sony- Phil Spencer... but, he's not engaging the customer base, nor are his decisions seemingly that sound (and I suspect he's a little too 'politically oriented' as well based on the sudden shift in vibe since 2019; and a little Hollywood star-struck to put it politely).
@ATaco So while you might feel great about "sending a message" - not sure you'll feel so great if they hike the price of PS+ again to compensate. I think Sony's been making too many mistakes of late, and I think there's a deeper organisational/management problem than just live service here. There's some fragility in the whole gaming industry, and I'm not sure any of us should be gloating (or that Sony shouldn't be listening, rather than just wishing this away)
Can people stop throwing numbers around (first it was 100 million, then it was 200 million, and now it's 300 million - literally more than was spent on Spider-Man 2). Just everyone take a chill pill... it was a series of errors and mis-judgements that ended up with a middling game. Anyone would think they're stealing children with all the fuss that's being made. Companies spend money on all sorts of things, many of which don't work out; the challenge for Sony is just that these mistakes are coming at a very unfortunate time, and they are seemingly all culminating at once.
@DDDD just because you would be all over the games doesn't mean there's enough people that would. Sony first party games aren't selling like they used to anymore, and especially compared to the cost of the production. Also, the number of customers that still remember Twisted Metal, SOCOM etc etc are dwindling (and getting older)... the reality is just that the games environment has changed. Sony just hasn't worked out into what - or how to adapt with the games industry.
@DennisReynolds possibly the worst flop in the last 20 years I suspect.... and I think the saddest part is, this was a like watching a runaway train (where we all knew what was going to happen), but there was no one with enough courage to make necessary changes to prevent the crash that was inevitable. Doesn't bode well for future games if this is the culture.
@DDDD Sorry - why hope for games to be a disaster? If they're successful, that means there was an audience... If it bombs, it's because they didn't match the game to the audience... but these games are notoriously difficult to get get right. You shouldn't be "hoping" that they get it wrong, waste money, or people's creative efforts. But plenty of live service games ARE popular.
Also remember, those devs are people - and while I agree in this case, huge mistakes have been made - I don't think it's just because it was live service. I think the problems were at a deeper level, and most likely would have been there even if Concord was a SP game.
Live Service games are the most profitable and played on PS consoles... The issue is whether it's meant single player games are not coming. The industry just has a problem with trying to put all their eggs (money and time) into too few baskets. They keep trying to make their single games more "big" - but generally make them more bloated and cringe (because their filling content with the writings of near-teenagers and chat-bots seemingly). IMO the issue people should be complaining about is the lack of quality SP games, not that there are MP GaaS games being developed as well.
Comments 324
Re: Sony Priming 'Even Less Exciting' PS5 Remaster for State of Play
@themightyant so that's not quite right... only 19% said they'd buy it, another 23% said they were waiting to see. I do agree that 19% is most probably enough of a potential pool (assuming that PushSquare in any way reflects the gaming gene pool) that for the outlay, it's most probably worth doing. However, no one would have an issue with remasters if they had a decent cadence of first party releases.
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
What outrage are you talking about?
Re: Sony Priming 'Even Less Exciting' PS5 Remaster for State of Play
@MrPeanutbutterz they also made it part of a console pack, and gave it away for free during the pandemic (which I suspect may actually be bolstering those numbers). And I'm someone that has perhaps put in similar hours to yourself... but to be honest, that's more likely an OCD indicator rather than because I love the game (I actually really fell off the the hype train with HFW)
Re: Sony Priming 'Even Less Exciting' PS5 Remaster for State of Play
I think the idea to use remasters as an 'intern' project seemed like a great idea... apart from the fact that you actually need to release new games in addition. So I'm not convinced this isn't about milking it's consumer base for low-cost/low-risk remasters. Sony doing Nintendo.
Re: Sony Priming 'Even Less Exciting' PS5 Remaster for State of Play
@SolarSailor that is so true... HZD can't even win the bad-news competition.
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
@OldGamer999 I''m sure that COVID had a lot to do with delays; and I suspect that Sony Mgt thought the remake/remaster route was a low-risk (even if low pay-off) path to keep games coming out, so that the 'silence' didn't become deafening. The counter that has emerged is that Sony doesn't need first party when they can just buy timed exclusivity... and I think that's another list for another day. Either way - timed exclusives might be 'marketable' but the Sony badge of quality was what people were dedicated to.
I think this need to meet Sony standards has been their rod, because it also has meant they're (IMO) too frightened to release something that isn't polished to the nth degree; where every edge is now rounded, where (IMO again) they've started to lose the forest for the trees in terms of quality and fun experiences. That's why people have gravitated so much to AstroBot (I hope Sony doesn't get the message that we all just need more nostalgia.... when the message should be more focused and fun gaming experiences).
Sony may "win the console war" (which doesn't really exist) - but it HAS also lost it's identity as a producer of great gaming (in lieu of impressively made games). And producing one "tentpole" game a year (as they recently stated was their goal), and filling the rest with remasters/live-service was never the right direction. The hardest part of the list for me was the fact that all the games barring Returnal (which was bought) are sequels/remasters. I hope Sony hasn't forgotten how to make new games.
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
@Flaming_Kaiser not worried about PC specific ports (ACTUALLY... I most probably should adjust... hold on)
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
Just something to think about - First Party PS5 Exclusives (not including PSVR2 - of which there is 1):
2020:
PC Horizon Zero Dawn (PORT)
PS5 Astro's Playroom (pack-in)
PS5 Demon Souls (REMAKE?) * (2nd party at release)
PS5 Spider-Man REMASTERED
PS4/PS5 Miles Morales
2021:
PS5 Returnal * (2nd party at release)
PS5 Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart
PC Days Gone (PORT)
PS4/5 Ghost of Tsushima DC (REMASTERED)
PS5 Death Stranding REMASTERED (strictly 2nd party)
2022:
PC God of War (2018) (PORT)
PS5 Uncharted Legacy of Thieves (REMASTERED)
PS4/5 Horizon Forbidden West
PC Spider-Man REMASTERED (PORT)
PC Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves (REMASTERED/PORT)
PS4/5 Gran Turismo 7
PS5 The Last of Us Part 1 (REMAKE)
PC Miles Morales (PORT)
PS4/5 God of War Ragnarok
2023:
PC Returnal (PORT)
PC The Last of Us Part 1 (PORT)
PC Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart (PORT)
PS5 Spider-Man 2
2024:
PS5 The Last of Us Part 2 (REMASTERED)
PC Ghost of Tsushima DC (PORT)
PS5 Concord (REMOVED)PS5 Astro Bot
Summary of First Party Output over approx 4 years of PS5:
4 PS4/5 originals
4 PS5 originals (1 deleted from existence and not counted; though Playroom most probably could count as the 5th game)
7 Remakes/Remasters (note: 6 if you exclude DS)
10 PC Ports of older PS4/5 games
Note: At least 2 more remakes/remasters to be released imminently. AND OF COURSE - this doesn't include the many more 2nd party exclusives.... which seems to be Sony's approach now. It also doesn't include MLB The Show, as these are cross-platform. It also doesn't include where 2nd party studios have worked on Sony IP (like Sack Boy / Helldivers). I also didn't include DLC (eg Burning Shores, or the Valhalla DLC)
The scary thing - in the last 4 years, PlayStation has added only a single new IP (Returnal) which was acquired... and the game that shall now never be mentioned again. I also remain unconvinced that the push to remaster/remake/port has not impacted original game releases.
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
@dark_knightmare2 how can this remaster be "necessary" to anyone though? Once again - it's a remaster of a perfectly good game when played at 60FPS on a PS5 patched game. I get the 'people don't need to buy it' argument; but when Sony are putting out only 1 first party game a year... but seemingly handfuls of remasters.... I think THAT's the reason why people are upset or annoyed.
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
@MFTWrecks thank you... my sentiment exactly. Though I think the trajectory for HZD3 is pretty well locked in, and incoming. I'm not sure if it's Hermen's influence or not, but I'm sure that Sony will just double, then triple down on the HZD and it's current bloated (and bland) direction.
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
@mariomaster96 well with Sony, you can never tell if they're going to remaster the game after 12 days, or remove it from ever existing. Then again... I just read a new rumour. Concord Remastered in-coming!
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
@get2sammyb ok - so there's 2 main games, 2 DLC's (the second was treated like a half game... given that it was PS5 only), a VR game, a lego game (about to be released), a lego set, a Multiplayer game (imminent... maybe), a mobile game (supposedly)... a netflix series (recently canned)... and god knows what else (edit: of course - I forgot the PC version). I think it's fair to say that Sony is milking the franchise for all its worth. The funny thing is - at least IMHO - the game has been steadily going downhill in terms of quality of story writing; and Aloy would have to be one of the most characterless and bland protagonists of any Sony game. AND I DID REALLY LIKE THE FIRST GAME... just it started to feel like they had ... well... jumped the shark. It is however built from one of their most amazingly good engines.
Re: Horizon Zero Dawn's PS5, PC Remaster Is Very Much the Real Deal
I think your voting options are a bit silly - what about people that like the game, but don't need a re-master. I would have thought that was the most obvious option (given the constant comments on HZD remasters).
Re: 10 Major PS5, PS4 Games Are Getting Axed from PS Plus Extra, Including LittleBigPlanet 3
@get2sammyb I think the issue with Sony is more that they don't telegraph departures that well - sometimes with less than a month's notice. It's hard to plan your games when you don't know what's going.
Re: PS6 Is Already Deep in Development, Backwards Compatibility of High Importance
@Titntin no probs - and I think while I was pretty well dismissive of the Pro (at that price, without a drive - because I do collect and have a lot of legacy games on disc), I think one of the problems is that the marketing (the 9 min NOT-technical presentation) was horribly bad... and to be honest, I've felt that all PlayStation marketing has gone down the tubes since the PS5 released. There's enough information out there to suggest the advantages are much more complex than presented, but I don't expect Sony to put any effort into selling it further.
The one thing I'd say - I definitely support your stand on GP... my view is that it devalues games. You can of course argue without an (extra) barrier to entry, a lot of smaller games get much more visibility. I'm sure that's true... but I also think, even for the indie market, it then becomes a patronage system in terms of MS. I think for bigger tent-pole releases, the idea of considering them almost like F2P is quite risky for the gaming business - because at some point, people may just stop paying for the games, and then we're totally at the whim of the platform holders. Of course- everyone still keeps up the best deal in gaming mantra - whilst so many decent to good games are kinda struggling. For me - the games I've played the most this year have all been ones that I've bought outright, and not through a subscription. It's the wrong way of looking at it, but for me subscription games tend to be 'win me over in 1-2 hours, or uninstalled'; because it doesn't cost me any more other than temporary storage and time to sample. I know I just don't value those 'free' games as much as ones that I've purchased myself.
Re: Vince Zampella Defends PS5 Pro Price, Says 'It's Actually Not That Bad'
@kevinm360 It's crazy - and my heart goes out to everyone in the UK... which I had thought was a really good market for Sony. Seems like it's good, but not for the reasons I thought.
Re: Vince Zampella Defends PS5 Pro Price, Says 'It's Actually Not That Bad'
@kevinm360 how about they show us.... for a full experience of the advantage. At the moment, there's just not enough info to make real judgements - but I can judge that AUD1400 IS A LOT OF MONEY.
Re: Vince Zampella Defends PS5 Pro Price, Says 'It's Actually Not That Bad'
Try AUD1199 in Australian dollars (not sure what the conversion rate to dollarydoos are). The AUD 1035 is if you're doing a straight conversion from USD... Playstation then adds and additional 16% (ok - being generous 10% of that is GST).
If you want to buy it all - console+stand+drive = AUD1410 (tax inclusive) which is about USD953.... so not as bad as some (is that good?.....)
Re: 13 New PS Plus Extra, Premium Games Available to Download Now on PS5, PS4
@ZeD I saw the times (which don't mean much this side of the international... being half a day ahead of most of Europe). I meant, it just seems like extra hassle that most players don't need. A wholly first world problem.
Re: PS6 Is Already Deep in Development, Backwards Compatibility of High Importance
@Titntin not quite the right comparison - the usd600 'Galaxy Black' XB also comes with a drive.... and doesn't need a stand. So the fair comparison is $600 vs about $800... (edit - and don't get me started on Aussie prices) and yes, even at that, it might be reasonable depending on how the performance translates to actual gameplay improvements - when you filter it by cost-to-developer and whether they think an extra mode is worth it (for a small install base). Jury's out I think as to the ultimate value.
Re: PS6 Is Already Deep in Development, Backwards Compatibility of High Importance
@Rob3008 given that seemingly about half of PS4 owners haven't even bothered to buy a PS5 (almost 4 years in), I don't think we need worry about PS6 anytime soon. The fact that you can count "first party" PS5 exclusives almost on one hand halfway through the generation, a little more concerning... (edit - not including remakes/remasters)
Re: 13 New PS Plus Extra, Premium Games Available to Download Now on PS5, PS4
So why isn't Plucky Squire available with the others? To make sure it's not lost in the other games - if so, I think it's not a good idea. Wouldn't it be better to release it as a whole, otherwise people (like me) will be jumping on to get it with the rest of the games, and be confused as to why it's nowhere to be seen.
I guess I'm missing the date/time of release? I'm in Australia btw.
Re: Suda 51 Says 'Everyone Cares Too Much About Metacritic Scores'
Isn't there clearly a disconnect when the major (critic) metacritic scores are by the same outlets that then comment on the metacritic score; thus reinforcing whatever narrative is being built within the games journalism clique.
Re: State of Play Rumoured for This Month As Sony Looks Set to Skip PS Showcase in 2024
My speculation is that they will focus on 3rd party (AC Shadows) and Death Stranding 2 including PS5Pro enhancements; some re-hashes (Silent Hill 2 (last trailer); Alien Rogue Incursion; Slitterhead). I know people want GoT2; and you'd think if it's coming they'd be aiming for a March release (for FY reasons)... fingers crossed, I know they're not really hiring anymore so they're likely in the clean-up phase. I think 50-50 on whether FairGame$ gets a showing (I think Sony marketing is s**ting bricks about that game now).... and they have a mountain of fundamental programmer positions going, suggesting they're still in the build phase. I do think it's possible we'll get a sneak peak at an Atreus GoW half-game... that needs to be close. Other than that... I don't see a lot to expect. Hope I'm wrong..
Re: State of Play Rumoured for This Month As Sony Looks Set to Skip PS Showcase in 2024
@Rob_230 the worrying thing is that Sony announced in their last investor call that they were aiming for (at best) 1 major tentpole game per year.... I think the idea of multiple games being worked on in any of these studios (other than Insomniac) is gone... my guess is that they have 70% of their teams working on their single super-sized major releases, and 10% doing remasters and 20% doing concept design for new IP (yes - of course these are all out my whazoo). The problem is that their major releases are taking up increasingly more effort to achieve even 5-6 year turn-arounds. I also suspect that they've thrown away more concept games than what we can imagine. I think the problem is that they're losing the culture of coming up with new IP.
Re: Feature: PS5 Pro's Been Clowned on By the Entire Internet, and the Memes Will Make You Laugh
Yep - I'm always framerate first myself (assuming it's not a broken mode that can happen)... the truth is that for most games, once you've decided which way you want to play, you just accept it and don't think about it again.
Re: Feature: PS5 Pro's Been Clowned on By the Entire Internet, and the Memes Will Make You Laugh
@Rich33 to be honest, I think for me personally I was more miffed at how poor the presentation was, and how insulting it was to call this a "technical presentation". I mean, they can and should do a high-level pitch-reel (but even then, this did such a poor job of selling it IMO); but they missed the opportunity to give the "enthusiasts" a real look at the tech...which I think was a mistake to dumb down things for what is going to be a very niche product.
I suspect the problem is, once you scratch below the "no more modes" pitch, and actually think about how it will work in reality, it gets complicated. My guess is there will end up being more modes (Performance 120FPS (PSSR+); Performance 40K60FPS (PSSRlite); Fidelity (60FPS+RTGI); Fidelity+ (30FPS; ALL RayTrace/PathTrace) etc; ie more like PC. Though it will ultimately depend on whether devs want to do anything more than the easiest option; so enhancements might be really limited.
edit - and yes, the 75% preferring performance mode was really interesting... but my impression on that is that for 75% of people, the graphics of a PS5Pro aren't that interesting... so at best they are targeting the 25% (it might only be 5-10% that actually really care enough to pay 700USD for both... sort of... kind of... if the devs support it.... and it's not CPU bound etc.
And thanks for the effort to read to the bottom - again.
Re: Feature: PS5 Pro's Been Clowned on By the Entire Internet, and the Memes Will Make You Laugh
@Rich33 I understand that sentiment - and it worries me that having the PS5Pro takes pressure off devs to actually optimize. I think however, giving in and signalling to Sony (and MS) that they can just create the FOMO culture is going to end badly for what used to be an affordable hobby for all people. Sigh.
Re: Japan Sales Charts: Astro Bot Barely Registers at Retail, PS5 Numbers Plummet After Price Hike
@Korgon I do think it should be supported - however, I also believe that you shouldn't support poor pricing... but to be real, I just don't need to play it now... it's not going anywhere.
Re: Japan Sales Charts: Astro Bot Barely Registers at Retail, PS5 Numbers Plummet After Price Hike
@NEStalgia so I totally agree there's some cognitive dissonance going on in Sony (and the rest of the gaming industry). As someone that values physical releases however, I would point out that PS5(disc) is still outselling PS5(digital) 9:2 in Japan. Which says something - at least in terms of legacy games.
I personally think that the sales in Japan most likely represents a lack of real interest or poor pricing (or perceived value)... looking at FF16, that sold about 340,000 physical copies in Japan in the first week, so sales are there for the right game, and sufficient interest - though this is about half previous entries, which likely points to changing tastes and increasing digital sales proportions.
I know I haven't bought AstroBot - because in my case I don't feel a rush to buy it, and I think the digital price on the storefront (110 AUD / 74 USD) is too high in Australia (even though I could buy at a cheaper 90AUD / 60 USD) price physically. I want it to succeed - but I've just spent too much money in the last 6 months on games I've yet to play. I also think that this points to a possible disconnect between people in comment sections, and the general population (as you were alluding to).
(https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-16-sales-numbers-drop/#:~:text=In%20its%20first%20week%20on,other%20entries%20in%20the%20franchise.)
Re: Japan Sales Charts: Astro Bot Barely Registers at Retail, PS5 Numbers Plummet After Price Hike
@Korgon or it means that people felt it wasn't priced right... just because you (or let's say everyone on the PushSquare comment section) thought it brilliant - I've not played it, but happy to assume it is - maybe this is saying that people are holding off because there's no need to rush to purchase. Especially at full price.
For me, and this is just my personal position, I have a crap-tonne of new-ish games in my backlog that I've already bought, and in Australia AstroBot retails physically and digitally at 110AUD (or USD74) - including on PlayStation's digital shopfront. You can get it down as low as 90AUD physically (60USD) - assuming you aren't digital only. So for me - $110 is WAY TOO MUCH TO PAY. But that's just me. I feel no FOMO to wait until it gets cheaper.
Re: Feature: PS5 Pro's Been Clowned on By the Entire Internet, and the Memes Will Make You Laugh
So the PS5 Pro is very divisive; and the responses seem to fit two basic modes: (1) it's offensively expensive and Sony are crazy; and (2) I can afford to buy the best, and all the poor people can just suck it. If we're being objective; you get an axtra1.2ish TB of internal storage (which is not essential), and the "opportunity" to improve frame-rates... and the expense of an addition USD200 and the loss of a drive (which is essential to play owned physical media).
It's impossible to know the real value however at the moment, because (a) the technical details are so 'poorly articulated' (even though there's plenty of leaks); (b) the 'game boost' is so vaguely described and might be very inconsequential; (c) it's unknown if you can access the raw GPU power AND additional RT AND upscaling all simultaneously, or whether this is a zero sum game; (d) the game can't do anything with a capped framerate game other than stabilize it; (e) a CPU capped game will likely not have framerates improved; (f) it's impossible to know at this stage whether developers will retro-fit enhanced modes (or to what extent they will); it's impossible to know how much third party devs will support additional features in the end, or how much it will be used to just paste over non-optimisation gaps.
If the pro can reliably make most of your existing uncapped games (that aren't capped at 30FPS) run at a smooth 60 at fidelity settings; or is able to keep resolutions high without dynamic dips (vaseline lens style) then it might be worth it; and provide substantially improved visuals for games moving forward. If you have the spare money to spend on something unnecessary. That's a value decision that only individuals can make; and if Sony sells Boxes A and B, and someone wants to pay $300 more for box B+drive then that's totally fine.
I think the real question however - is not really about whether it's too expensive; or whether it's still good value... it's whether this was a business strategy that makes sense for Sony. For the PS4 Pro it did, because Sony didn't have a 4K viable box, and the competition did; in this case, it feels very questionable to me because there's no new consumer-facing feature obvious in the PS5Pro. Saying more money = better performance is obvious (but it's also a PC argument; and will lead to people inevitably realising that paying for performance is better in the PC world). Should Sony have spent the R&D money on something that (IMO) only 5% of people will take up; but create a two tiered performance split? For me personally, until they reveal more (and let people do actual real world tests) I don't think it's worth it from a gaming perspective, or from a corporate perspective (especially when the AUD price with drive is converted to USD914; and I know that in other parts it's even worse). We'll see more once it hits reviewers/analysts and we get to see real performance benefits.
And if you read down this far - well done... but remember, the concept of console gaming was always about trying to have a good value gaming experience. I don't personally want the mobile phone mentality to sneak into consoles. That's how we get new consoles coming out every year for that 5-10% additional boost.
Re: PS5 Pro Announced, Costs $700 and Out in November
@nedbvai so let me get this right... you want Sony to force developers to support a console that hardly anyone will buy, just because you seem to have too much money to waste on tech-bling to make you feel good about yourself? Yes - if you don't have the money don't buy it... that's an easy statement. The real question is - why should Sony spend money developing a system for the 5% of people that actually might buy it? Rather than say, developing games that actually work well on the PS5?
Re: 'It Felt Like Putting New Glasses On,' Claims First PS5 Pro Hands On
@get2sammyb and then at the same time you publish a shill-piece saying how it's almost like seeing for the first time... and the point I believe was - the image used looks like it was modified to make it look much more meaningful. A lot of people skim these pieces, and the less astute might actually come out of this believing these images were real.
Re: Poll: Are You Sold on PS5 Pro?
@Elodin they can't afford to make GTA6 run crap, because next to no-one will own a PS5 Pro... they would literally be shooting themselves in the foot. Even as it is - this console is requiring developers to spend time and effort to develop for a console that almost no one will own. Questionable how much impact it really has in the third-party world.
Re: Poll: Are You Sold on PS5 Pro?
So the point is - this 9m teaser didn't provide ANY reason to buy a PS5 Pro - especially at USD200 mark up (admittedly you're swapping a disc drive for an extra 1.2 GB SSD). The comparisons they showed were meaningless in a gaming context... and worryingly, don't even go so far as to say you can achieve 60FPS on the games that they mentioned. And seriously - after all this, such a pitiful selection of games... no Elden Ring, no Cyberpunk, no Baldurs Gate 3... (perhaps because these might be CPU limited?). This just sounds to me like whale-hunting for all the people who just want to advertise their over-monetized stupidity and vanity. Show some real value, and it might be a conversation... at the moment, this just feels half-baked. I just can't believe they don't sell a boxed disc-version... that's just insane in my opinion, if they're selling to the niche gamer enthusiast market.
Re: Sony: It's Massively Important PS Studios Develops Games in Various Genres
So I'm just curious if any of you have actually read the blog-post... and if anyone else finds it incredibly cringe to have Hermen interviewing Nicolas Doucet (the studio director of Team Asobi) - actually it was an "invisible" un-attributed interviewer, but it felt more like a Hermen PR piece. I totally believe Sony should take the claps when they do well, as well as the criticism when they do poorly... but how about get someone out of the bunker for real, rather than have bots writing fluff pieces.
Re: Sony: It's Massively Important PS Studios Develops Games in Various Genres
@Sequel You do realize that AstroBot (beyond VR) came out of Jim's time at PS... the problem is, everyone is happy to blame him for everything that went wrong, but then totally disown any involvement in anything that went right. The truth is - he most likely had only a direct responsibility for both good and bad. Especially when it came to specific games.
Re: Sony Flop Concord Axed Two Weeks After PS5, PC Release
@ATaco to be fair... I think there's a real risk of it. Sony aren't the company to care about what customers think... Concord being canned isn't about us, it's purely financial reasoning.
Re: Reaction: PlayStation Needs to Take a Long, Hard Look at Itself
@ZeD Yep - that slow tempo of games (and the astronomical budgets) make me very worried for the sustainability of Sony. And now, they seem to be flitting all over the place, trying to just throw S**t at the wall to see what sticks. Which is fine, I guess... if you've got plenty of wall (which they don't). Their current tempo means we'll be lucky to get a major game each year...
Edit - and no, other than the 'likely' Ghost 2 and eventually Wolverine.... nothing. Death Stranding is all well and good, but it's second party, and well, just Kojima. At the end of the day, Sony has long ago lost any interest in actually making it's customers excited... because advertising costs money; and they thought we'd just buy whatever was put in front of us.
Re: Reaction: PlayStation Needs to Take a Long, Hard Look at Itself
@crossbit what un-written law are you talking about (in terms of sequels)? The problem is either they intentionally created barriers (by thinking their art was more important than sales), or didn't innovate (eg SM2 was literally more of the same, but with worse writing), or just become boring (I liked HZD, but HFW was just a junk story and intentionally made Aloy even MORE ANNOYING). Ragnarok was ok... but also suffered from no innovation, and a pretty boring story/cringe writing).
PS4 was the peak for PlayStation in recent times... and to be honest, I have no interesting in re-playing any of my Sony PS5 games. There's something off about the entire management team IMO. And that's a real worrying sign for Sony (who is paying 100's of millions for games that they are just bloating beyond all belief to make them feel worth the price), and just not selling copies.
Re: Reaction: PlayStation Needs to Take a Long, Hard Look at Itself
@AdamNovice I totally agree that Sony needs to diversify it's game's portfolio - hell, a year ago everyone was criticizing Sony for only putting out the sad Dad third person games now... and the reality is, if they lose the monopoly of their store front, they might actually be in some serious financial problems without live service bucks (which might be sold on their own store-fronts). The problem is - they seemingly don't have the sense of a 10 year old in terms of knowing what makes a fun and engaging game these days. I don't know if it's a generational shift, but even their 'tried and true' SP experiences are starting to go south very quickly, buried under their own huge budgets, poor writing/concepting, and political messaging. As much as I don't like the MS model (and in particular GP), I think they might be making an astute move... and they certainly seem to get multi-player and live service.
Re: Reaction: PlayStation Needs to Take a Long, Hard Look at Itself
@DualWielding you can bet that Sony invested a lot of money on the Amazon show... I mean, why else would ANYONE make a show about Concord? Because it was being funded by Sony is why. This is yet another example of the current management team thinking that they are cross-media moguls, just because of TLOU... and all the other focus on TV and films. Problem is - the wake up call won't be heard, under the chorus of "toxic fan-base"
Re: Reaction: PlayStation Needs to Take a Long, Hard Look at Itself
I'm glad that people are finally realising that they can't put all the blame on Jim Ryan... and give Hermen a pass. I have to say, his record is not looking great, and I think the problem is he was seen as a Sony- Phil Spencer... but, he's not engaging the customer base, nor are his decisions seemingly that sound (and I suspect he's a little too 'politically oriented' as well based on the sudden shift in vibe since 2019; and a little Hollywood star-struck to put it politely).
Re: Sony Flop Concord Axed Two Weeks After PS5, PC Release
@ATaco So while you might feel great about "sending a message" - not sure you'll feel so great if they hike the price of PS+ again to compensate. I think Sony's been making too many mistakes of late, and I think there's a deeper organisational/management problem than just live service here. There's some fragility in the whole gaming industry, and I'm not sure any of us should be gloating (or that Sony shouldn't be listening, rather than just wishing this away)
Re: Concord PS5, PC Sales Estimates Are Somehow Even Worse Than We Thought
Can people stop throwing numbers around (first it was 100 million, then it was 200 million, and now it's 300 million - literally more than was spent on Spider-Man 2). Just everyone take a chill pill... it was a series of errors and mis-judgements that ended up with a middling game. Anyone would think they're stealing children with all the fuss that's being made. Companies spend money on all sorts of things, many of which don't work out; the challenge for Sony is just that these mistakes are coming at a very unfortunate time, and they are seemingly all culminating at once.
Re: Concord PS5, PC Sales Estimates Are Somehow Even Worse Than We Thought
@DDDD just because you would be all over the games doesn't mean there's enough people that would. Sony first party games aren't selling like they used to anymore, and especially compared to the cost of the production. Also, the number of customers that still remember Twisted Metal, SOCOM etc etc are dwindling (and getting older)... the reality is just that the games environment has changed. Sony just hasn't worked out into what - or how to adapt with the games industry.
Re: Concord PS5, PC Sales Estimates Are Somehow Even Worse Than We Thought
@jrt87 you are joking, right (about IGN investigative journalists)? My sarcasm filter seems to be on the blink.
Re: Concord PS5, PC Sales Estimates Are Somehow Even Worse Than We Thought
@DennisReynolds possibly the worst flop in the last 20 years I suspect.... and I think the saddest part is, this was a like watching a runaway train (where we all knew what was going to happen), but there was no one with enough courage to make necessary changes to prevent the crash that was inevitable. Doesn't bode well for future games if this is the culture.
Re: Concord PS5, PC Sales Estimates Are Somehow Even Worse Than We Thought
@DDDD Sorry - why hope for games to be a disaster? If they're successful, that means there was an audience... If it bombs, it's because they didn't match the game to the audience... but these games are notoriously difficult to get get right. You shouldn't be "hoping" that they get it wrong, waste money, or people's creative efforts. But plenty of live service games ARE popular.
Also remember, those devs are people - and while I agree in this case, huge mistakes have been made - I don't think it's just because it was live service. I think the problems were at a deeper level, and most likely would have been there even if Concord was a SP game.
Live Service games are the most profitable and played on PS consoles... The issue is whether it's meant single player games are not coming. The industry just has a problem with trying to put all their eggs (money and time) into too few baskets. They keep trying to make their single games more "big" - but generally make them more bloated and cringe (because their filling content with the writings of near-teenagers and chat-bots seemingly). IMO the issue people should be complaining about is the lack of quality SP games, not that there are MP GaaS games being developed as well.