According to almost every developer interviewed when asked about how easy is it developing Games for the PS5, the comments are typically that its already the easiest Console to develop for this GEN, so it should be even easier than Last GEN's PS4 PRO mainly with the Added help coming from the PS5 PRO's New (Hardware Dedicated) Ray Tracing and Machine Learning...aka PSSR baked right into it, so it should make it easier to implement most of the Added Feature Set of the PS5 PRO.
The Gaming Economy Bubble Starts to Pop, with layoffs everywhere and the Industry's Answer is to Over Price Games like this to try to make up for its losses, which Only Further Shows why the Gaming Industry is continuing to stay so out of Wack and Can't find it's equilibrium with its own customer base.
It's like watching an Airplane going into a Faster and Faster Graveyard spiral, they keep Whining and Doubling Down on Prices to make up for it, all the while not realizing that Our Wallets can't take it either, because they're Emptied out from this Economy too, and so the Gaming Airplane keeps accelerating towards the ground at ever higher speeds, and something's got to give, so unless they reevaluate and change their course with this "Current Inflated Price Per Value mindset", to a Model that Favors their Customer Base more, this Gaming Bubble is Not Shockingly, going to Quickly Crash to the Ground, just like it did in the 1980's.
Then your going to see Publishers and Developers Faces with the look of "Who Pumped the Puppy" on it, and guaranteed no one's going to take any kind of responsibility for it.
People are tired of (every company out there) making excuses for trying to Fish for more money out of their wallets, when were already over fished as it is.
I mean my wallet barely even has any water in it at this point, let alone fish in it, h*ll it's almost Puffing Dust Out at this point.
They need to do something constructive on their end, and quit trying to constantly pass the buck onto their customers.
@ChrisDeku -(Statement): "mean it’s basically a scientific fact that the dangerous radiation from a Nuclear bomb will have decayed before 4 weeks are up."
I've read it takes 4 to 5 weeks for harshest levels to drop, but it doesn't go away completely and make it safe for humans without a Rad Suit, so what your saying is partially true...aka...a half truth, but it's much more nuanced than that.
Look at this link and you'll see all kinds of different situations and mitigating circumstances, that show how you can't just use one simple methodology, and cut and paste it to every physical substance around us, as an example: Underground aquifers well be one of the last things to be irradiated, but if radiation eventually makes it down to the underground aquifers, it could take thousands of years before their free of radiation.
By the way, this is a separate issue, but linked nonetheless, I want you to picture all of the nuclear power plants that exist in the entire world (currently at 436), that would most likely be active (in a 6 minute decided) full scale nuclear war, and picture the amounts of constant persistent radiation they would produce and release around the world with their runaway nuclear meltdowns happening all at once, with no one to stop or mitigate any of their constant radiation releases. https://www.statista.com/statistics/267158/number-of-nuclear-reactors-in-operation-by-country/
You can't look at one piece of information and make a simple conclusion, you have to put the whole picture with all of its elements and differing situations into proper perspective. Because each one element feeds into the other.
Again no worries, it's been fun.
@NattyKing
I'm definitely getting one, and
I think you're right on the money, for Sony's pricing zone.
I've been saying the same thing, and yet I still don't understand why all the negativity about the PS5 Pro?
If you don't like it, don't buy it, if it's too much money then don't buy it, but why be a wet blanket for everyone else that's excited about getting one?
Gaming is supposed to be about having fun, not complaining about something that you're evidently not going to even buy, or think should even exist.
@ChrisDeku - (Statement): "because in reality Nuclear Fallout only remains highly dangerous for like a month after detonation" (and) "You understand a nuclear winter is actually nothing to do with radiation right?"
(Answer): You keep taking us deeper down the rabbit hole, when it's completely not necessary.
You keep intertwining the 2 Different scenarios and acting like your educating me on this subject matter, and that in doing so, it'll somehow make you right about it, or your original statement that I commented on.
You're using the commonalities "of the winter effect" between two "different Causal scenarios", all the while ignoring what caused them to begin with, and therefore completely ignoring the important leftover byproduct (aka..Radiation) that you get from the (Nuclear Cause) versus the (Impact Cause), and so you ending up saying they're exactly the same in every way, and so you're right?
I'm sorry but your evaluating the information Wrongly.
One uses a (Dirty) Radioactive delivery system to create the winter effect..aka Nuclear War, and the other one does not..aka Impact Winter via asteroid or comet, and as a result, it doesn't leave behind the SAME prolonged radioactive signature that the nuclear war scenario does. Here are the 2 Different Definitions.
(An impact winter): is a hypothesized period of prolonged cold weather due to the impact of a large asteroid or comet on the Earth's surface. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/impact_winter
(Nuclear winter): the chilling of climate that is hypothesized to be a consequence of nuclear war and to result from the prolonged blockage of sunlight by high-altitude dust clouds produced by nuclear explosions. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nuclear%20winter
And just so you know, after the War, the U.S and Japan used methods to mitigate the exposure to radiation to make the area more habitable after the the bombs were dropped, via scraping and removing several feet of the topsoil off, as well as removing any radioactive debris and then storing all of it at a proper nuclear dump site, just like they more recently did, when the Fukushima Nuclear Reactors melted down in Japan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_disaster_cleanup
And as far as Chernobyl, the exclusion Zone is massive, so naturally as you get further out from the reactor site itself, you have lower radiation levels equivalent to being exposed to 40 bananas in a day, so life has had a chance to surprisingly flourish, but even then, if you compare it to the same species not living in those same radioactive zones, there's still differences in their health and longevity.
Also some food for thought, after a Full Scale Nuclear War, there won't be anyone really left to try to mitigate Fallout radiation like in these examples we've used, like dumping billions of metric tons of concrete on top of Runaway Nuclear Reactors, or Digging Up Topsoil three to six feet down and dumping it at proper waste sites to make things more habitable.
So the habitability of the environment 1 month out as you originally suggested, is simply not feasible, no matter how you want to try to use mental gymnastics to frame it.
Again, if you don't agree with facts that I presented, then we're going to have to agree to disagree, but no worries, it's been fun!
Definitely excited for it, It's a Day One Purchase for Me!
I know some people think it's too soon, so their Ok to wait to upgrade to a PS6 in Another 4 YEARS from now in 2028.
But some of us are not willing to wait that long, so the PS5 PRO is a Good fit for us.
But what I Don't Get, is all the needless negative banter about the PS5 PRO, and the pointless reason for it's Existence?
If you don't like it, you simply don't have to buy one, so what point is there to truly be made for feeling so Negative about the very existence of the PS5 PRO?
Again, if you can wait till the Next Generation that's coming out in 2028, more power to you, but why Rain on everyone else's parade with all the Pointless Negativity.
After all, isn't Gaming supposed to be about having Fun, no matter which system your doing it on?
@ChrisDeku -"because in reality Nuclear Fallout only remains highly dangerous for like a month after detonation"
I looked it up myself and made sure my facts were accurate before I commented.
So we're gonna have to agree to disagree, especially if your saying that your facts are more accurate, because you're original comment that it would last like a month long is ridiculous, but now you're trying to bring other things into the conversation that weren't brought up?
And as far as comparing it to the dinosaurs and what they went through, I wasn't making any comparisons so I don't know why you're mentioning that at all, besides your example uses 2 different types of radiation.
I'm pretty sure that the comet or meteor that struck the Earth wasn't made out of highly Radioactive Plutonium, and so I don't need a physics lesson with you quoting the half-life of the radioactive isotopes as being the equivalent is ridiculous, also don't need a lesson in the difference in Megaton yields because everyone knows the meteor was much worse, and that's because it's an Apple's to Watermelon comparison, we're just applying plutonium based Radioactive radiation from nuclear weapons to this conversation.
In the Game/Show they did Lob everything they had at each other, and so again nuclear winter alone would last like 10 years, which is (longer than the month long time span that you originally said it would be".
@ChrisDeku -(Question): "because in reality Nuclear Fallout only remains highly dangerous for like a month after detonation"
We all wish...Lol.
Because with the current Megaton payloads that thermonuclear minute missiles carry, the Planet would have nuclear winter for about 10 years after they hit, and during that time all the vegetation on the surface would freeze and die, and soon after all the animals would follow, and even if you're lucky enough to be in a bunker, you would want to wait much much longer than the 10 year nuclear winter to poke your head out, because the radiation would still be at extremely unbearable levels... people seem to have no idea how bad this would actually be in real life...its Crazy.
So actually the game paints a prettier picture than what reality really would be, but if you look at the movie and the game, they seem to use smaller lower yield nukes, kind of like the ones that the U.S used on Japan-(55 kilotons range) but just more of them to the same effect.
Again in reality, it would be way worse than most people think, not like the fantasy Universe in this game or movie.
But if you don't believe me, just store up on some Rad-Away and then everything should be fine...Lol
I too buy Disc Based Games, and Your Totally Right about (most) Disc based Games being playable offline, whether it's the EULA their Quoting or First Edition buggy versions or Non-Buggy (GOTY) Editions, in ALL Forms, there ALL still Playable Offline, with the obvious Exception of Online Only Games.
These people unwittingly or not, are going to keep trying to take you "Down a Rabbit Hole" of technicalities to convince you or themselves their right, when actually on the (subject as a whole), they aren't.
Ignore them, it's no big deal because obviously this Forum is supposed to be about having fun talking about Games, not doing pointless mental gymnastics with people like these, that are always going to try to stick their landing, to make themselves right.
He might not be consciously putting on a "Black Hat and Twisting his Mustache", but
"The Road to H*LL is constantly being Paved with these Investment Groups Good Intentions", and it seems like it's Always the people and their Jobs that get Paved Over, regardless of intentions.
The Problem with People like him and other's inside these Massive Investment Groups, is they don't seem to understand that the Gaming Industry is a more nuanced investment opportunity, they need to treat Video Games as an "Art Form" First, and then as a (longer term) Investment opportunity secondly, in order to truly squeeze the utmost Potential and Profit out of the Game Development Process.
In other words they tend to break it down to basic Bean Counting, and so I don't think they understand the "Weird Formalic Balancing Act" that an Art Form like this requires them to do, to get the most out of the Game Development Process and it's Massive Profits potential.
Things desperately need to happen to change this Mindset, otherwise it's going to keep pulling down the whole Gaming Industry..
No Matter how they Package it, it's like "putting Lipstick on a Pig", because it's a sad attempt at creating a Dressed up Excuse, for charging More for something that shouldn't be this expensive.
Should they charge more than just the Base Game, of course they should, but with it costing close to 2 Independently Fully Developed Games...Nope...Definitely too much.
I remember way back, when you would get everything this Ultimate package includes (Plus) Physical Memorabilia Gear...E.G...6 can mini Fridge...RC Car...ect... with Prices close to this.
Those Days might be gone, but these Pricing pushes are still starting to get seriously out of hand.
And Publishers and Developers Wonder why there's a slowing down turn in this industry with People buying less New games... it's absolutely Crazy.
Game Development & Production Costs could easily go down on AAA Games in the Future, especially with New Technologies like "Fully Developed A.I", along side other Developmental tools that don't currently exist, that will help to Develop Games Easier and Faster and Cheaper than today.
And If you couple that New Tech with the complete absence of Physical Media in the future, it will also drive Production costs down even Further.
But the real issue is, when all of that cost reduction becomes a reality, will it actually change the Current Corporate Climate, that tends to Aggressively Over Price it's products at the expense of their Customer Base, or will they actually pass on those savings to their customers and start charging less money for Games?
I Personally think that they'll charge more until the Pricing Bubble POP's, and only then will they start dropping Prices.
I totally agree, it's a more nuanced situation, much more than most people might think.
All of the nuances that you mentioned, Plus all the Hiring that was going on with Publishers and their Software Divisions during the Pandemic Gaming Boom.
They had games launching understandably later, due to developers staying at home to finish games at their own pace, so publishers started hiring more developers to help compensate, and so now you have too much employee bloat, that needs to be adjusted for, along with that left over slower paced attitude towards developing games and getting releases out, then couple that with an actual slowdown in the market itself, and there's bound to be Layoffs.
Lol...this Article is Embarrassingly Hilarious, because as an American it's Sadly True, that IF you go to a Waffle House in the "After Club/Bar Hours" your chance of Seeing or Getting into some kind of Fisticuffs or Worse, exponentially goes Up in conjunction with the Amount of people's Blood Alcohol Content... It makes me think of the (Metallica song)- "Sad But True"... Good Food, Bad Situation...but Excellent Song!
@Pranwell - "Hoping for the Pro announcement, but I feel it could be a couple of months too early for that. Sooner or later though!"
(ANSWER)- You might be right, but a Person can Dream...Lol
I know Everything points to a November Release Date, Buuut👈(Very big But) there are a Few outliers in the Industry that think the PS5 PRO could be Released as Early as September.....Probably not, Buuut👈 a Person can Dream...Lol
(After Thought): I guess that I'm hoping with Sony getting all "Corporate Lawsuit Serious" with their Investigation into "Who Leaked all the PS5 PRO Information Early on", and with Sony being so P.O'd about it, that they'll go ahead & make the PS5 PRO Announcement Early in May's showing, with them being of the Mindset, that it's Better to be in Front of any more Leaked Information, so as to Take Back Contol of the Narrative going Forward until the PS5 PRO Actually Launch's.
Besides Obviously Games, I'm Excited to see IF they Officially announce the PS5 PRO with a Complete list of it's Specs, and then thoroughly Go through it's Complete Hardware Architecture.
I'm still gonna get the PS5 PRO, but I'm with you, because joking aside, I would Definitely Pay a Higher Premium to have Sony throw PS3 Backwards Capability in it too....an almost all in 1 console...3,..4, and 5... Woohoo!🤣
For me, it seems your over complicating the issue, the Article is just basically saying:
Less CPU Used in PS5 PRO in RT Mode vs. Base PS5 RT Mode = Less CPU Load for applying Higher Frame Counts in RT Mode on the PS5 PRO versus the Higher CPU Load and Lower Frame Rate Counts used in the Base PS5 when using its RT Mode.
Just as a (simple) example, like if you Turn Off RT Mode in the Base PS5 which in turn lessens the CPU Load to achieve higher Frame Rate Counts, no one is suggesting Any SPECIFIC performance number gains, (that's you doing that) because again this is all speculation until Full Custom GPU Specs are revealed by Sony, and when you talk about Frame Times it only seems applicable in the situation where maybe there's the implementation of PS5 PRO's PSSR A.I and Maybe when using it's upscaling capabilities through Different Frame Time allotments for Different Frame Speed Targets, and the Specific Talking Point I'm talking about in the Article isn't applying PSSR to the Conversation, and if you aren't referencing PSSR, and just Frame Time differences themselves between 30 & 60 FPS, then again we Truly don't know how Efficiently the PS5 PRO's Custom SoC GPU Hardware solution is, when it applys it's Ray tracing Mode, and until we get those Specs straight from Sony, We Can't know how it Truly affects Frame Rates in Any Way.
But again, the end result seems apparent if the PS5 PRO Uses LESS CPU in RT Mode than Base PS5 does in RT Mode, then you get Less CPU Load that translates to a Lighter CPU Load, then use that Performance Gain to apply to Higher Frame Counts in RT Mode on the PS5 PRO, over what the Base PS5 can do in its RT Mode.
Which by the way still doesn't Factor in the Extra 350 MHz or 10% CPU Speed increase and ALL of the other Upgrades that the PS5 PRO has to apply more Frames to the mix, but if you asked me about how many Frames Total with Everything taken into account?
I Can't Know and Wouldn't Pretend to know, but again, until Sony releases those Complete GPU Specs and addresses how the Complete Architecture will all work in unison together, Nobody can Truly Know what the difference is, and so Everything's a Blind Guess.
But like I've said before, it's Exciting and Fun to Speculate about it.
By the way, sorry for all the EDIT's, it's Early in the morning, so I have Extreme Brain Fog, so I keep having to edit it, to prevent it from being one giant unintelligible Run On Sentence and I'm not Fully convinced that I've achieved that yet...😂
I Aready said it wasn't Magic, which would include your sarcastic "Pixie Dust" Comment...
The Article isn't talking about using PSSR A.I to get the Extra CPU Gains, which would definitely Use the Tensor Cores, aka...300TOPS or 300 Trillion Operations Per Second inside of the GPU.
My Understanding is that there speculating about other Custom Aspects of Sony's 45% Faster GPU that's inside of the PS5 PRO, that are Custom Built Strickly for RT handling only(2x to 3x better), which then Lowers Demand on the CPU, and they Not once alluded to using the separate Custom Block set aside inside the GPU, that's strickly dedicated to the A.I Tensor Cores...aka...PSSR.
Maybe we're crossing wires somewhere, but it seems to me that the talking point was about getting that Extra CPU Headroom via Differences in the way the PS5 PRO GPU handles RT, versus the Base PS5 GPU's handling of RT with its More Demanding Work Load on its CPU when implementing its RT Method.
And Again, Not Once Referencing Using PS5 PRO's PSSR A.I to do it, there wasn't even an inference made about using PSSR anywhere inside the GPU to achieve the Higher CPU Headroom to address the Bottleneck issue, and I'm pretty sure they'd mention PSSR or A.I in that Quoted talking point in their Article, if that's what they ment.
Again, maybe one of us misinterpreting the other one, but No Worries, Nobody here believes in Fairies or Unicorns🦄, it's all about trying to have fun!
I have Nothing New to Add about GamePass Feasibility, Except to say, I New this Day was Coming the Very First time that Micro$oft talked about Launching the X-Box One, with the Power of X-Cloud....🌧
With all things being equal, and an Apple's to Apple's comparison, Same Resolution to Same Resolution, Same Frame Rate to Same Frame Rate, and with Ray tracing added across both PS5 and PS5 PRO systems, and (NO PSSR 300 TOPS applied, so No Tensor cores applied).
If it means that the PS5 PRO's Custom GPU lifts a much Heavier Load by implementing Ray Tracing through its Custom SoC GPU Hardware, much Differently than what the Base PS5 GPU can do, and it's doing it with much Less demand on the PS5 PRO's CPU Load, versus the Base PS5's CPU Load, so that Freed Up CPU Overhead Gained strictly from Ray Tracing is still a major Gain for the PS5 PRO, and for its Frame Rate Generation in RT Mode, and Again that's only when Comparing both Base PS5 and PS5 PRO Ray Traced Games only, and then when you Add the additional 10% OverClock, with 28% Faster Ram, and 1.2GB more Memory available, I think it Loosens that CPU Bottleneck a lot more than just with the 10% Overclocked CPU(at least for Ray Traced Games), and again that's without Factoring in PSSR at all.
P.S- A Decreased CPU Load through an Upgraded SoC GPU is still a major Gain, as long as you like RT Mode turned on and with more capable Frame Rates than the Base PS5, and that's all I'm pointing out, so no one here is saying that it's magically adding Cores to the CPU itself, and No Major Overclocking, because after all its only Overclocked 10%, we're just talking about better GPU optimized RT loading here, with less CPU load because of it, and all because of the PS5 PRO's SoC GPU Upgrade versus the Base PS5's GPU, and so I thought the Article was interesting.
What?....I know that your not ruling out 60FPS on the PRO, and I also don't know where you're getting that the Article's Quote (that I Posted to you) is saying to drop to 1080p and then upscale then get 60 FPS...ect.....again What?
I was asking for your DIRECT Opinion, to the (Exact Quote) from the Article that I Posted to you...what happened?
What I gleaned from the Article myself is, that the Base PS5 typically uses CPU Processing as well as GPU Processing when doing Ray tracing, and that Sony's new GPU in the PS5 PRO (Unlike Base PS5) maybe using a Hardware Based SoC Solution to Apply Ray Tracing through the actual Custom GPU, that then directly applies Ray Tracing without using as much CPU Processing as the Base PS5 when doing it, so it's Freeing Up Even MORE CPU Processing in the PS5 PRO over what the BASE PS5 CPU can do, and that it will Further Reduce the Bottleneck to help Gain towards (a Natural) 60 FPS along with (and not including) the 10% Overclocked CPU and other upgrades in the PS5 PRO.
Again until Sony Addresses PS5 PRO and it's Full Specs, this is fun Speculation, but I thought the Article was very interesting, and brought up a valid point, a way for the PS5 PRO to Squeeze out more CPU over the Base PS5 for faster Frame Rates, by utilizing the Custom GPU Hardware in the PS5 PRO.
Like I said before, we both know where we stand, what I was curious about was your take on this part of the Article:
"On base PS5 and in PC games, real-time ray-tracing is also incredibly CPU-intensive, not simply GPU-intensive. However, console games can be optimized at an SoC level, and it seems as if the PS5 Pro's GPU may be tailor-made to offset those CPU bottlenecks otherwise introduced by real-time ray tracing on the console.
Considering the nature of these "PS5 Pro Enhanced" performance targets and the existing leaked specs, it may be too soon to rule out 60 FPS for PS5 Pro games."
Yoshida-san is correct in giving Jim Ryan kudos for how he and Sony handled the Launch of the PS5 during the Dog days of Covid, thats with barring ALL of the Scummy Scalpers out there!
But I still don't completely agree with Hiroki Totoki's overly aggressive approach (that Push Square mentioned before) to having more simultaneous Launches of PS First Party titles on both PS Hardware and PC for more profit, (especially if they do it early on) in a New Hardware Generation's Life Cycle, because it could easily slow down (some people) from adopting Sony's Newer Hardware with them just sticking with their PC Hardware, and playing Sony's Games on it instead.
But if done right, with a slower (Ramped Up Release Date approach) for First Party PS to PC Game release Dates, you can increasingly get them closer to that Near Parity Game Release date state, without Sony unintentionally cannibalizing some of their Hardware Sales in doing it.
For Example, At the Beginning of a New Generation with Brand New Hardware, you start by simply tapering First Party PS to PC Games Release Dates, starting from a Semi-Far Off Release Date, then through time gradually edging Game Releases into that Closer PS to PC Release Date Territory.
But again, only closing the Game Release Date Gap between PS and PC in a slow Methodical way as to Sync the PC Release Dates in time with the Increasing Age of the Newer PS Hardware, so that it doesn't Cannibalize too much of its own Hardware Sales from the start, and in turn it would Maximize Profits between both of Sony's Hardware and Software Divisions going Forward.
Hello BAM, we both know where each other stands on the PSSR tech, but I came across this Link for TomsHardware that seems interesting, let me know what you think.
Has anyone ever considered that Maybe Devs will have to do a better job to Optimize Base PS5 Games the way they should be, but seemingly aren't, because it'll be the only way to use the Exra Power of the PRO (effectively) to get these upgraded FPS Speeds their touting.
I Don't Understand all the Negativity about a simple Mid-Gen Refresh, and especially with it coming in at a (Full Extra Year Later at 4yrs), which is actually Longer than the PS4 PRO did at 3 yrs after the PS4 Launched, so it shows that Sony's acutely aware of the Lag and Backlog that the Pandemic caused, and so their responding with a 1 year Delay with the PS5 PRO Launch in November 2024.
So again, why all the Negativity for it's Very Existence?
I mean it comes down to such a simple prospect...if you don't want it, simply don't buy it?
I'm Personally Excited, So I know I'LL get it Day 1, just like I Did with the PS4 PRO!
(I think there might be something to what you said in your Post)- "If Sony said they would exchange your standard 5 for a Pro, no-one would complain or have issue... So it basically comes down to defending your investment."
With a lot of people getting a PS5's late in this GEN's Console Cycle, you might be right, but still why so much hate?
After all isn't Gaming supposed to be about having Fun?
@Aggirivator -(Question): "There's already dissatisfaction in the Xbox world about having to develop for Series X and Series S...is PS5 going down that same road?"
(ANSWER): Yeah I've seen other people trying to throw that monkey wrench into the Discussions, But It's simply not the Same with the PS5 to PS5 PRO.
I suspect Development will be pretty much the same way it was with Last GEN's PS4 to PS4 PRO, with the exception of the addition of PSSR Machine Learning in this GEN's PS5 PRO Model, which should make a lot of things even easier to achieve.
Developers typically work to Optimize the Weakest Console First to get the most out of it, then move on to the more Powerful Console to Upgrade, but the Difference in Hardware with "Series S" versus "Series X" has to do with them having "Less Parity" than Sony's Machines will have, so it takes MORE EFFORT from Developers to Upgrade and Optimize the Game going from the much weaker "S Model" to the "X Model", so just as an example, the "Series S has its Hardware Limited to only 10GB RAM" vs. a Massive "16GB RAM in Series X", and there other differences, too many to list, but you get the idea.
Where as the PS5 and PS5 PRO are "Closer in Parity" than the "S" is to "X" Model, just as an example PS5 and PS5 PRO Both have the SAME amount of 16GB RAM, the only difference being the PRO's RAM is Faster, same as with the PRO having the SAME CPU, it's just overclocked 10%, but you get the Idea, so the Developers will take the Already Optimized Base PS5 Games, and then simply Punch them up with the Faster Upgraded CPU,GPU, and RAM Hardware that's available in the PS5 PRO. So Simply Conversion with No major Development Fragmentation.
I'm Excited, and so I'm Definitely going to Buy the PS5 PRO Day 1, just like I bought the PS4 PRO Day 1!
But I Also Managed to get the Launch PS5 on Day 1, so I think a lot of people taking the Poll weren't as lucky, with some maybe only getting a PS5 Recently, so I can see it from their perspective, in that it feels like a PS5 PRO is coming Market too quickly, and that's not even factoring in that more Games have been Cross Gen going from the PS4 to the PS5 than Any other Generation in History, so it only makes them lock down harder on that Prospective.
But those same people need to at least consider, that Sony Actually waited a Full Extra Year Longer at 4 Years, to Release the PS5 PRO version, Versus only 3 Years after the Base PS4 Launch, for the PS4 PRO to come out, so it makes a lot more Sense for People like myself, who've actually had the Base PS5 since or close to Launch Day, to want to upgrade and buy one.
Gaming is supposed to be about having Fun, So what I don't understand is all the Negativity about the Release or even Existence of a PS5 PRO Model?
I mean it doesn't Hinder anything for the Base PS5 Games in any way, and anyone thinking it does, only needs to look at the effect of the Last Gen PS4 PRO to Base PS4 Games, to see that it didn't change the Quality of the Games for the Base PS4 in any way.
It should be Simple for Everyone, If you don't like it, Don't buy it, but please don't be a Hater for those of us that are pumped up and excited about getting one.
I do think it's true that we haven't seen the Full Power or Full Optimization of the PS5, and it's obviously do to the Wacky Chain Reaction of Game Development Delays, due to the Interruption of the Crazy World Pandemic.
But I think People need to Keep in Mind that Sony IS Releasing the PS5 Pro (One Full Year Later) than the shorter 3-year Mark that the PS4 Pro was launched at, and again it's most likely because of the Pandemic slowing things down, and when you Factor in that this Generation for Sony is probably going to last "maybe 8 years", and not just the 7 years that the PS4 did, then releasing the PS5 Pro in November of this year makes a whole lot More Sense, but that's only if you take Everything into account, and so if you look at the full scheme of things, and it still doesn't move the Bar for you on the reason for the PS5 PRO's existence, then it's simple, just don't Buy one, and be content with the Standard PS5 for the Next 4 years, and do so without complaining about people WHO ARE Excited about buying one, because in the End we're All Gamers looking to have Fun!
I agree that they aren't (immediately) leaving the Hardware side of things, and their on record as stating that their Proper Next Gen Console will be the Largest Technical Leap seen in a Generation, so people need to curb Microsoft's Immediate Doom.
But what their doing by allowing ANY of their First Party Software on a Direct Competitor's Console is unprecedented, and does throw a Major Flag up to a possible Future with them focusing on what they've always stated their future vision has always been, "A Future where Your Able to Play(Stream) Games Anywhere and Everywhere through the Power of X-Cloud" aka...AZURE, and you Don't need any Specific Hardware to do that...aka Game Pass Everywhere, and Now they make this unprecedented move, so you've got to admit, it does legitimately make people (at the very least) concerned about Microsoft's Future in the "Classic Home Console Hardware Business" that Directly Competes with Sony's Consoles, and that's with you even taking into account that it's not necessarily the Immediate future, but it may well be off into their near Future.
So it is Scary for people to think about a Future where Sonys not being kept in check by ANY Real Competition.
I Totally agree with you, I've had every PlayStation Console, but I also had the 360, and Microsoft went downhill from there, and I was always hoping that they would get their Act together, but if they EVER actually leave the "Classic Home Console Hardware" side of things, and Mainly focus on Software only, we're ALL going to suffer from the Void left behind from the Lack of Competition, and I think Sony's going to get Medevil with ALL their Pricing, from Consoles to Software....Not Good...in Fact it's Pretty Scary Prospect.
Like so many people, I'm not surprised that Microsoft has Failed so badly on the Hardware side of things, and now is Turning to Software to try and turn things around.
The Beginning of the End Started after the Great success of the Popular 360, and then they mucked things up with Xbox one, with it Being Always connected, and the constant praising of the Power of X-Cloud, and it went straight downhill from there, because Microsoft went and tried to Force the Far Out Future of Digital Game Downloads and Game Streaming, Into the then "Current World of Gaming", which had much Slower Download Speeds, along with more unstable connections and they somehow thought it was a good idea to pursue?
Why did they go for it, especially since Internet Connections and Speeds were so much Poorer back then? (I then had only 12Mbs downloading speed, which in my area was Fast at the time, versus 1,200Mbs now...What a difference!)
One word, shortsighted (Greed), they strictly did it because it would be a much more Profitable Future for them to reach for, if it worked, even though its totally contrary to what the actual Gamers wanted, and to what the actual Technology and Average Internet speeds could support at that time.
Again, I can see it in my mind, after what I can only assume at the time was thought to be a Magnificent Brainstorming Session in the Microsoft Boardroom about the future of Xbox and All the Money they could make with a little less physical media in the wild and everyone forced to be tied into their ecosystem through X-Cloud, and then the next thing you know, what can only be called an abysmal Xbox One Launch happens, and so that's when essentially Sony quickly Ate there Lunch, as quickly as Sony Reps handed over that PS4 Game to Share onstage at E3, and the Xbox Brand has been going Downhill ever since, all because they tend to Force their Own Vision above and Over their customers own Ideas of what they Really Want things to be like in gaming (and tried to force a drastic market change, instead of reading the direction of the "then current market Pre-2013"), and here we are talking about their demise as Hardware makers...
It's a shame that they were so short sighted, because competition benifits everyone...
I Personally don't see it as a throw away culture, at least not yet, (even though too many things these day's are), I say that because it's not like Sony's going to quit making Games for the Standardard PS5 that has the Larger Installed Base, the PS5 PRO is just an OPTION, it's not actually the Next Gen PS6, that'll most likely come out in 2027 to 2028.
Plus we're talking November 2024 for the PS5 PRO, which is a Full 4 Years after the Original PS5, in comparison to the PS4 PRO Launching only 3 Years after the Original PS4, and look at how that went, the Sky didn't Fall and yet they Kept Chugging out PS4 Software in mass and in fact they still are...Lol.
Again it's a choice, not mandatory or Next Gen, and so nothing has to be thrown away.
Edit: I'm only Applying my thoughts to the PS5 PRO that easily Piggybacks All of PS5's Software, now I Feel for you with the PSVR 2, that's a tougher sell, because if they don't do more Software for the PSVR 2, then that throw away culture comment you made, may WELL Apply to PSVR 2.
Happy Gaming ✌!
I Feel where your coming from, but my Half Full outlook is, as Hardware Continues to Advance and it becomes More Easily Capable of Showing Higher Native Resolutions, Machine Learning needs to also be Advancing along side it, and while you might not think that it's a good thing at first, and it feels like their back sliding, and like their some how cheating us out of True Resolutions and True Hardware Based Frame Rates, and doing it by Artificially applying them through Machine Learning, I'm not worried about that, because I see a Future where Hardware Resolutions will Max out at 10K (the most definition the human eye can perceive) and Wicked Smooth High Frame Rates, but Machine learning will still be there to increase our Gaming Experience in so many other ways, in ways that we can't even imagine now, but we can't get to that Future if we don't embrace Machine Learning Now, even if for some people, it "At First" feels like a cheat, and that we're taking a hit, it still needed to happen, the sooner the better!
Heck Nvidia only started it in 2018 and now instead of 2ms latency like Sony, theirs is only at 0.5ms latency which is wicked fast, so Now Sony is following suit, and like I've mentioned many times before it's their I.P, so they may catch up fast to Nvidia and may even surpass them in short order, who knows, but I find it very exciting to see what they'll do with it! Exciting Times!
So besides Sony themselves, selling between 23 & 24 million PS4 PRO Consoles to date, In what sense did DF think of it as an after thought?
Because that's a Loaded self justifying statement without you giving the addition of a specific video reference from DF, and even if you could, it would also depend on the Context of the DF conversation, and on the Specific Subject Matter at that moment in time in the Video, to know what there actually making reference to, or are you trying to say that Every DF Video about the PS4 PRO was them typically Treating the PS4 PRO as an Afterthought to the Base PS4, and that there weren't enough improvements to justify its existence, because I've never heard them say that in any sort of way, in any of their Videos...so I'm confused...
I know that I Definitely Saw the Difference, and Played the difference on my 4K TV, so again I don't know what your talking about?
I totally agree and understand your concerns and I'm attaching a link below that demonstrates the very thing that you're trying to point out, and have been pointing out, that's why I keep telling you that we're more alike than you think. Only difference is I'm still Excited about buying this Generation Mid-Console refresh.
But as far as Sony, they Have Been Up-Selling the Base PS5 and it's capabilities from the start, and their doing the same thing for PS5 PRO, and "Technically" their not lying, so I know that you already know, that Most Games and there Resolutions and Frame Rates are all different from the Go, so as an example, a Simple game can run Wicked High Frame rates and Higher Native Resolutions like 4K, do to the Minimal Load Across the Board, so specifically for that Game it is actually 4K 60FPS, so Sony's "Technically not Lying", and now the numbers that Sony's throwing around with the PS5 Pro, they're stating that it "Not Only" can achieve 4K at 60 FPS, that it'll be able to achieve 4K at 120FPS, but can that it also at some point be able to do 8K at 60FPS...Crazy?
So the Question is How are they going to pull that Rabbit out of the Hat?...because you and I know unless somethings missing, your especially not going to get the "Monster Numbers" that I was referencing of say 4K at 120FPS and 8K at 30FPS, I mean we have to be missing some kind Outside the Box thinking, like maybe some Sony Trick architecture or Software, that works along with PSSR or some kind of Other Spec information that's possibly missing, who knows?
But I'm Excited to see, because personally, I'm already sold on the PSSR Machine Learning aspect, along with All of the other Leaked Specs so far for the PS5 PRO, let alone any New Info that Sony's going to spill in the near future on the PS5 PRO.
By the way, so that you can see that I understand what your talking about and your concerns with Games and Machine Learning, here's that link that I mentioned earlier.
Simple,Right!
If they don't like the Idea for what ever reason they have, then don't buy one!
I especially love the people comparing Virtual Reality Gaming to Mainstream Gaming, and then say that the PS5 PRO is going to be a "Niche Product" just like the PSVR 2 Headsets collecting Dust in Sony's Warehouse...What?...Lol
The only reason it'll be slower in sales than the PS4 PRO (besides obviously this crummy economy), is if Sony releases the PS5 PRO at some CRAZY Price Point, or Low Balls us by selling it Stripped Down without the Disc Drive as an example, at $549.99 U.S and then makes everyone Buy the Disc Drive Separately for $79.99 U.S for a Total of $629.98 U.S, because I think it should be at a Max Total of $100.00 more than what ever the Base Disk PS5 is at the time of Lauch.
It can't be Back Ported to the Standard PS5, the PSSR Machine Learning is Hardware Built into the New PS5 PRO's Custom Graphics Chip, which is vastly Superior than any Software solution could ever be.
It's along the lines of Nvidia's version of Machine Learning with DLSS built into their Graphics Cards, which is Waaay Superior versus AMD's Sub Par FSR Software Upscaling Tech.
That's when Sony added 4K Checkerboarding to the PRO 4, just like their Now adding Machine Learning PSSR to the PRO 5, which is Waaay Better upscaling technology, so much better it's almost not even in the same Sport!
Mind you it was late in last Gen's Life Cycle, but how can anyone forget the CyberPunk debacle with them showing only the PRO 4 version, because the Base 4 was atrocious, and then say the PS4 PRO didn't offer much?
I disagree, I had a PRO 4 day 1, and the Resolution and Especially the Frame Rates Greatly improved over the Base 4 on a lot of Games.
Don't take my word for it, All you need to do is look at Past Videos on Digital Foundry comparing the 2 with the same games to see the difference between them.
@BAMozzy
I agree mostly with what your saying, except that I also think, just like Richard at DF, that there's some information about the PS5 PRO that WE Don't have(Maybe Better Compression Program...ect) we don't know, so we'll have to wait and see.
I'm a Optimistically Pessimistic person, "The Glass is Half Full, but I Still want to Know Where the other Half Is".
So I'm going to give them a Chance to tell me, and then see where were at with their supposed massive FPS Increase, and if it turns out to be BS, then I'LL Strip them Down with You, No Problem.
By the way I think we're more alike than we are different, we just differ on our approach to this News.
With Sony being the No.1 Selling Console Manufacturer this GEN, Sony's Definitely NOT going to push out Next Gen until 2027 or 2028, but with Microsoft's current GEN Sales, that's a completely different situation, so they MIGHT push their Next GEN Console sooner, but either way I think Sony's PS5 PRO will help to Shape and Fine Tune (PSSR) Machine Learning for their Truly Next Gen PS6 Console.
I think the PS5 PRO is still going to sell at least as well as the PS4 PRO in the end, but maybe at a slower pace at the beginning when considering the current economy, but people putting it in the SAME Niche Category as the PSVR 2 is ridiculous.
"PS4 Pro effectively doubled the size of the GPU and doubled compute unit count, while PS5 Pro 'only' increases the size by 67 percent. However, thanks to machine learning-based upscaling, I believe that PS5 Pro should be able to deliver a Far Higher perceptual increase in Resolution vs PS5 than the PS4 Pro did against its junior variant"(PS4).
You do realize that we're both still saying the same thing...yet again, but the difference is you're taking us into the Woods and Circling the Trees and then ending back up at the exact same point that I made in the first place, but to further simplify it, let's start off with a base PS5 running "the same exact game" at some unspecified "but a higher native resolution" than 1080p as an example, but it's only running it at 30 FPS because of the base ps5's limitations, and because of the limited 10% CPU increase on PS5 Pro, you can't run or boost the "same exact game" to 60 FPS in a native 4K resolution because of it's limitations, you would then take the PS5 Pro, and "run the same game" at a "lower native tested resolution", for only as an example 1080p, and then crank the frame rate up to get the 60 FPS, and then apply PSSR to upscale the 1080p resolution up to an A.I generated 4K image!
That's exactly in condensed form, what I was saying from the go, but here we are, with you saying the same thing and telling me that I got something wrong...?
First of all you're the one that replied to my posting first, and not the other way around, and then you proceeded to throw the "Your Wrong Message" at me, yet I said hey no problem, no worries, we're good, and yet you continue to throw the "your wrong and don't understand me message" at me, if you don't agree with anything that I stated up in this posting, let's just agree to disagree, and move on.
Because gaming is about having fun, and I joined this forum to have fun and get excited speculating about the next bump up in Hardware power, I didn't know that someone would come at me Fast and Hard, and then proceed to club me like a baby seal, and or that I was going to be critiqued to death like its a job interview, and that you were going to militantly make sure that I actually know how to use C++, otherwise my opinions are completely invalid?
I'll say it again, have a good day, we're good, no worries, and happy gaming✌!
Comments 255
Re: Fresh PS5 Pro Report Reiterates Sony Demands for Upgraded Games
According to almost every developer interviewed when asked about how easy is it developing Games for the PS5, the comments are typically that its already the easiest Console to develop for this GEN, so it should be even easier than Last GEN's PS4 PRO mainly with the Added help coming from the PS5 PRO's New (Hardware Dedicated) Ray Tracing and Machine Learning...aka PSSR baked right into it, so it should make it easier to implement most of the Added Feature Set of the PS5 PRO.
Day 1 Purchase for Me!
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Ubisoft Responds to Star Wars Outlaws Exclusive Jabba the Hutt Boondoggle
The Gaming Economy Bubble Starts to Pop, with layoffs everywhere and the Industry's Answer is to Over Price Games like this to try to make up for its losses, which Only Further Shows why the Gaming Industry is continuing to stay so out of Wack and Can't find it's equilibrium with its own customer base.
It's like watching an Airplane going into a Faster and Faster Graveyard spiral, they keep Whining and Doubling Down on Prices to make up for it, all the while not realizing that Our Wallets can't take it either, because they're Emptied out from this Economy too, and so the Gaming Airplane keeps accelerating towards the ground at ever higher speeds, and something's got to give, so unless they reevaluate and change their course with this "Current Inflated Price Per Value mindset", to a Model that Favors their Customer Base more, this Gaming Bubble is Not Shockingly, going to Quickly Crash to the Ground, just like it did in the 1980's.
Then your going to see Publishers and Developers Faces with the look of "Who Pumped the Puppy" on it, and guaranteed no one's going to take any kind of responsibility for it.
People are tired of (every company out there) making excuses for trying to Fish for more money out of their wallets, when were already over fished as it is.
I mean my wallet barely even has any water in it at this point, let alone fish in it, h*ll it's almost Puffing Dust Out at this point.
They need to do something constructive on their end, and quit trying to constantly pass the buck onto their customers.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Sony Takes Down PS5 Pro YouTube Leak, Suggesting It's All Legit
I'm getting a PRO Model no matter what, even if I have to physically SCALP a Scalper to do it...😈
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Amazon's Fallout Adaptation Seemingly Retcons Climactic Events of Fan-Favourite Game
@ChrisDeku -(Statement): "mean it’s basically a scientific fact that the dangerous radiation from a Nuclear bomb will have decayed before 4 weeks are up."
I've read it takes 4 to 5 weeks for harshest levels to drop, but it doesn't go away completely and make it safe for humans without a Rad Suit, so what your saying is partially true...aka...a half truth, but it's much more nuanced than that.
Look at this link and you'll see all kinds of different situations and mitigating circumstances, that show how you can't just use one simple methodology, and cut and paste it to every physical substance around us, as an example: Underground aquifers well be one of the last things to be irradiated, but if radiation eventually makes it down to the underground aquifers, it could take thousands of years before their free of radiation.
https://www.atomicarchive.com/resources/documents/effects/wenw/chapter-2.html
By the way, this is a separate issue, but linked nonetheless, I want you to picture all of the nuclear power plants that exist in the entire world (currently at 436), that would most likely be active (in a 6 minute decided) full scale nuclear war, and picture the amounts of constant persistent radiation they would produce and release around the world with their runaway nuclear meltdowns happening all at once, with no one to stop or mitigate any of their constant radiation releases.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/267158/number-of-nuclear-reactors-in-operation-by-country/
You can't look at one piece of information and make a simple conclusion, you have to put the whole picture with all of its elements and differing situations into proper perspective. Because each one element feeds into the other.
Again no worries, it's been fun.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: New PS5 Pro Leak Points to Significant Graphics Push from Sony
@NattyKing
I'm definitely getting one, and
I think you're right on the money, for Sony's pricing zone.
I've been saying the same thing, and yet I still don't understand why all the negativity about the PS5 Pro?
If you don't like it, don't buy it, if it's too much money then don't buy it, but why be a wet blanket for everyone else that's excited about getting one?
Gaming is supposed to be about having fun, not complaining about something that you're evidently not going to even buy, or think should even exist.
More power to the PRO people!
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Amazon's Fallout Adaptation Seemingly Retcons Climactic Events of Fan-Favourite Game
@ChrisDeku - (Statement): "because in reality Nuclear Fallout only remains highly dangerous for like a month after detonation" (and) "You understand a nuclear winter is actually nothing to do with radiation right?"
(Answer): You keep taking us deeper down the rabbit hole, when it's completely not necessary.
You keep intertwining the 2 Different scenarios and acting like your educating me on this subject matter, and that in doing so, it'll somehow make you right about it, or your original statement that I commented on.
You're using the commonalities "of the winter effect" between two "different Causal scenarios", all the while ignoring what caused them to begin with, and therefore completely ignoring the important leftover byproduct (aka..Radiation) that you get from the (Nuclear Cause) versus the (Impact Cause), and so you ending up saying they're exactly the same in every way, and so you're right?
I'm sorry but your evaluating the information Wrongly.
One uses a (Dirty) Radioactive delivery system to create the winter effect..aka Nuclear War, and the other one does not..aka Impact Winter via asteroid or comet, and as a result, it doesn't leave behind the SAME prolonged radioactive signature that the nuclear war scenario does. Here are the 2 Different Definitions.
(An impact winter): is a hypothesized period of prolonged cold weather due to the impact of a large asteroid or comet on the Earth's surface.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/impact_winter
(Nuclear winter): the chilling of climate that is hypothesized to be a consequence of nuclear war and to result from the prolonged blockage of sunlight by high-altitude dust clouds produced by nuclear explosions.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nuclear%20winter
And just so you know, after the War, the U.S and Japan used methods to mitigate the exposure to radiation to make the area more habitable after the the bombs were dropped, via scraping and removing several feet of the topsoil off, as well as removing any radioactive debris and then storing all of it at a proper nuclear dump site, just like they more recently did, when the Fukushima Nuclear Reactors melted down in Japan.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_disaster_cleanup
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191212081926.htm
And as far as Chernobyl, the exclusion Zone is massive, so naturally as you get further out from the reactor site itself, you have lower radiation levels equivalent to being exposed to 40 bananas in a day, so life has had a chance to surprisingly flourish, but even then, if you compare it to the same species not living in those same radioactive zones, there's still differences in their health and longevity.
Also some food for thought, after a Full Scale Nuclear War, there won't be anyone really left to try to mitigate Fallout radiation like in these examples we've used, like dumping billions of metric tons of concrete on top of Runaway Nuclear Reactors, or Digging Up Topsoil three to six feet down and dumping it at proper waste sites to make things more habitable.
So the habitability of the environment 1 month out as you originally suggested, is simply not feasible, no matter how you want to try to use mental gymnastics to frame it.
Again, if you don't agree with facts that I presented, then we're going to have to agree to disagree, but no worries, it's been fun!
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: New PS5 Pro Leak Points to Significant Graphics Push from Sony
Definitely excited for it, It's a Day One Purchase for Me!
I know some people think it's too soon, so their Ok to wait to upgrade to a PS6 in Another 4 YEARS from now in 2028.
But some of us are not willing to wait that long, so the PS5 PRO is a Good fit for us.
But what I Don't Get, is all the needless negative banter about the PS5 PRO, and the pointless reason for it's Existence?
If you don't like it, you simply don't have to buy one, so what point is there to truly be made for feeling so Negative about the very existence of the PS5 PRO?
Again, if you can wait till the Next Generation that's coming out in 2028, more power to you, but why Rain on everyone else's parade with all the Pointless Negativity.
After all, isn't Gaming supposed to be about having Fun, no matter which system your doing it on?
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Amazon's Fallout Adaptation Seemingly Retcons Climactic Events of Fan-Favourite Game
@ChrisDeku -"because in reality Nuclear Fallout only remains highly dangerous for like a month after detonation"
I looked it up myself and made sure my facts were accurate before I commented.
So we're gonna have to agree to disagree, especially if your saying that your facts are more accurate, because you're original comment that it would last like a month long is ridiculous, but now you're trying to bring other things into the conversation that weren't brought up?
And as far as comparing it to the dinosaurs and what they went through, I wasn't making any comparisons so I don't know why you're mentioning that at all, besides your example uses 2 different types of radiation.
I'm pretty sure that the comet or meteor that struck the Earth wasn't made out of highly Radioactive Plutonium, and so I don't need a physics lesson with you quoting the half-life of the radioactive isotopes as being the equivalent is ridiculous, also don't need a lesson in the difference in Megaton yields because everyone knows the meteor was much worse, and that's because it's an Apple's to Watermelon comparison, we're just applying plutonium based Radioactive radiation from nuclear weapons to this conversation.
In the Game/Show they did Lob everything they had at each other, and so again nuclear winter alone would last like 10 years, which is (longer than the month long time span that you originally said it would be".
But again, No worries, agree to disagree.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Amazon's Fallout Adaptation Seemingly Retcons Climactic Events of Fan-Favourite Game
@ChrisDeku -(Question): "because in reality Nuclear Fallout only remains highly dangerous for like a month after detonation"
We all wish...Lol.
Because with the current Megaton payloads that thermonuclear minute missiles carry, the Planet would have nuclear winter for about 10 years after they hit, and during that time all the vegetation on the surface would freeze and die, and soon after all the animals would follow, and even if you're lucky enough to be in a bunker, you would want to wait much much longer than the 10 year nuclear winter to poke your head out, because the radiation would still be at extremely unbearable levels... people seem to have no idea how bad this would actually be in real life...its Crazy.
So actually the game paints a prettier picture than what reality really would be, but if you look at the movie and the game, they seem to use smaller lower yield nukes, kind of like the ones that the U.S used on Japan-(55 kilotons range) but just more of them to the same effect.
Again in reality, it would be way worse than most people think, not like the fantasy Universe in this game or movie.
But if you don't believe me, just store up on some Rad-Away and then everything should be fine...Lol
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Physical Backers of Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes Hit with Unexpected Shipping Costs
@dskatter
I too buy Disc Based Games, and Your Totally Right about (most) Disc based Games being playable offline, whether it's the EULA their Quoting or First Edition buggy versions or Non-Buggy (GOTY) Editions, in ALL Forms, there ALL still Playable Offline, with the obvious Exception of Online Only Games.
These people unwittingly or not, are going to keep trying to take you "Down a Rabbit Hole" of technicalities to convince you or themselves their right, when actually on the (subject as a whole), they aren't.
Ignore them, it's no big deal because obviously this Forum is supposed to be about having fun talking about Games, not doing pointless mental gymnastics with people like these, that are always going to try to stick their landing, to make themselves right.
Happy Gaming dskatter✌!
Re: Saber Interactive CEO Defends Embracer Group's Controversial Acquisition Strategy
Is He a Bad Guy?
He might not be consciously putting on a "Black Hat and Twisting his Mustache", but
"The Road to H*LL is constantly being Paved with these Investment Groups Good Intentions", and it seems like it's Always the people and their Jobs that get Paved Over, regardless of intentions.
The Problem with People like him and other's inside these Massive Investment Groups, is they don't seem to understand that the Gaming Industry is a more nuanced investment opportunity, they need to treat Video Games as an "Art Form" First, and then as a (longer term) Investment opportunity secondly, in order to truly squeeze the utmost Potential and Profit out of the Game Development Process.
In other words they tend to break it down to basic Bean Counting, and so I don't think they understand the "Weird Formalic Balancing Act" that an Art Form like this requires them to do, to get the most out of the Game Development Process and it's Massive Profits potential.
Things desperately need to happen to change this Mindset, otherwise it's going to keep pulling down the whole Gaming Industry..
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: $130 Version of Star Wars Outlaws Under Fire as Ubisoft Prices Increase
No Matter how they Package it, it's like "putting Lipstick on a Pig", because it's a sad attempt at creating a Dressed up Excuse, for charging More for something that shouldn't be this expensive.
Should they charge more than just the Base Game, of course they should, but with it costing close to 2 Independently Fully Developed Games...Nope...Definitely too much.
I remember way back, when you would get everything this Ultimate package includes (Plus) Physical Memorabilia Gear...E.G...6 can mini Fridge...RC Car...ect... with Prices close to this.
Those Days might be gone, but these Pricing pushes are still starting to get seriously out of hand.
And Publishers and Developers Wonder why there's a slowing down turn in this industry with People buying less New games... it's absolutely Crazy.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: $70 Games Are Just a Phase, Believes Saber Interactive CEO
Game Development & Production Costs could easily go down on AAA Games in the Future, especially with New Technologies like "Fully Developed A.I", along side other Developmental tools that don't currently exist, that will help to Develop Games Easier and Faster and Cheaper than today.
And If you couple that New Tech with the complete absence of Physical Media in the future, it will also drive Production costs down even Further.
But the real issue is, when all of that cost reduction becomes a reality, will it actually change the Current Corporate Climate, that tends to Aggressively Over Price it's products at the expense of their Customer Base, or will they actually pass on those savings to their customers and start charging less money for Games?
I Personally think that they'll charge more until the Pricing Bubble POP's, and only then will they start dropping Prices.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Games Industry Mass Layoffs an 'Avoidable F*ck Up', Says Larian Studios Publishing Director
@GuttyYZ
I totally agree, it's a more nuanced situation, much more than most people might think.
All of the nuances that you mentioned, Plus all the Hiring that was going on with Publishers and their Software Divisions during the Pandemic Gaming Boom.
They had games launching understandably later, due to developers staying at home to finish games at their own pace, so publishers started hiring more developers to help compensate, and so now you have too much employee bloat, that needs to be adjusted for, along with that left over slower paced attitude towards developing games and getting releases out, then couple that with an actual slowdown in the market itself, and there's bound to be Layoffs.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: 'Smaller' PS5 Exclusives Still Reportedly Coming Later This Year
Astrobot would definitely be Cool!
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Tekken 8 Director Responds to Legions of Fans Requesting Waffle House Level
Lol...this Article is Embarrassingly Hilarious, because as an American it's Sadly True, that IF you go to a Waffle House in the "After Club/Bar Hours" your chance of Seeing or Getting into some kind of Fisticuffs or Worse, exponentially goes Up in conjunction with the Amount of people's Blood Alcohol Content... It makes me think of the (Metallica song)- "Sad But True"... Good Food, Bad Situation...but Excellent Song!
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Random: Seven Years Later, No Man's Sky's Reputation Is Slowly Improving
They Already Redeemed themselves YEARS AGO in my Eyes, definitely can't complain.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Rumour: Sony to Host Big PlayStation Event Next Month
@Pranwell - "Hoping for the Pro announcement, but I feel it could be a couple of months too early for that. Sooner or later though!"
(ANSWER)- You might be right, but a Person can Dream...Lol
I know Everything points to a November Release Date, Buuut👈(Very big But) there are a Few outliers in the Industry that think the PS5 PRO could be Released as Early as September.....Probably not, Buuut👈 a Person can Dream...Lol
(After Thought): I guess that I'm hoping with Sony getting all "Corporate Lawsuit Serious" with their Investigation into "Who Leaked all the PS5 PRO Information Early on", and with Sony being so P.O'd about it, that they'll go ahead & make the PS5 PRO Announcement Early in May's showing, with them being of the Mindset, that it's Better to be in Front of any more Leaked Information, so as to Take Back Contol of the Narrative going Forward until the PS5 PRO Actually Launch's.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Rumour: Sony to Host Big PlayStation Event Next Month
Besides Obviously Games, I'm Excited to see IF they Officially announce the PS5 PRO with a Complete list of it's Specs, and then thoroughly Go through it's Complete Hardware Architecture.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Rumour: PS5 Pro's 'Enhanced' Label Covers Resolution, Frame Rate, Ray Tracing Upgrades
@Robinsad
Lol...😂
I'm still gonna get the PS5 PRO, but I'm with you, because joking aside, I would Definitely Pay a Higher Premium to have Sony throw PS3 Backwards Capability in it too....an almost all in 1 console...3,..4, and 5... Woohoo!🤣
Re: Rumour: PS5 Pro's 'Enhanced' Label Covers Resolution, Frame Rate, Ray Tracing Upgrades
@BAMozzy
For me, it seems your over complicating the issue, the Article is just basically saying:
Less CPU Used in PS5 PRO in RT Mode vs. Base PS5 RT Mode = Less CPU Load for applying Higher Frame Counts in RT Mode on the PS5 PRO versus the Higher CPU Load and Lower Frame Rate Counts used in the Base PS5 when using its RT Mode.
Just as a (simple) example, like if you Turn Off RT Mode in the Base PS5 which in turn lessens the CPU Load to achieve higher Frame Rate Counts, no one is suggesting Any SPECIFIC performance number gains, (that's you doing that) because again this is all speculation until Full Custom GPU Specs are revealed by Sony, and when you talk about Frame Times it only seems applicable in the situation where maybe there's the implementation of PS5 PRO's PSSR A.I and Maybe when using it's upscaling capabilities through Different Frame Time allotments for Different Frame Speed Targets, and the Specific Talking Point I'm talking about in the Article isn't applying PSSR to the Conversation, and if you aren't referencing PSSR, and just Frame Time differences themselves between 30 & 60 FPS, then again we Truly don't know how Efficiently the PS5 PRO's Custom SoC GPU Hardware solution is, when it applys it's Ray tracing Mode, and until we get those Specs straight from Sony, We Can't know how it Truly affects Frame Rates in Any Way.
But again, the end result seems apparent if the PS5 PRO Uses LESS CPU in RT Mode than Base PS5 does in RT Mode, then you get Less CPU Load that translates to a Lighter CPU Load, then use that Performance Gain to apply to Higher Frame Counts in RT Mode on the PS5 PRO, over what the Base PS5 can do in its RT Mode.
Which by the way still doesn't Factor in the Extra 350 MHz or 10% CPU Speed increase and ALL of the other Upgrades that the PS5 PRO has to apply more Frames to the mix, but if you asked me about how many Frames Total with Everything taken into account?
I Can't Know and Wouldn't Pretend to know, but again, until Sony releases those Complete GPU Specs and addresses how the Complete Architecture will all work in unison together, Nobody can Truly Know what the difference is, and so Everything's a Blind Guess.
But like I've said before, it's Exciting and Fun to Speculate about it.
By the way, sorry for all the EDIT's, it's Early in the morning, so I have Extreme Brain Fog, so I keep having to edit it, to prevent it from being one giant unintelligible Run On Sentence and I'm not Fully convinced that I've achieved that yet...😂
Happy Gaming BAM✌!
Re: Rumour: PS5 Pro's 'Enhanced' Label Covers Resolution, Frame Rate, Ray Tracing Upgrades
@BAMozzy
I Aready said it wasn't Magic, which would include your sarcastic "Pixie Dust" Comment...
The Article isn't talking about using PSSR A.I to get the Extra CPU Gains, which would definitely Use the Tensor Cores, aka...300TOPS or 300 Trillion Operations Per Second inside of the GPU.
My Understanding is that there speculating about other Custom Aspects of Sony's 45% Faster GPU that's inside of the PS5 PRO, that are Custom Built Strickly for RT handling only(2x to 3x better), which then Lowers Demand on the CPU, and they Not once alluded to using the separate Custom Block set aside inside the GPU, that's strickly dedicated to the A.I Tensor Cores...aka...PSSR.
Maybe we're crossing wires somewhere, but it seems to me that the talking point was about getting that Extra CPU Headroom via Differences in the way the PS5 PRO GPU handles RT, versus the Base PS5 GPU's handling of RT with its More Demanding Work Load on its CPU when implementing its RT Method.
And Again, Not Once Referencing Using PS5 PRO's PSSR A.I to do it, there wasn't even an inference made about using PSSR anywhere inside the GPU to achieve the Higher CPU Headroom to address the Bottleneck issue, and I'm pretty sure they'd mention PSSR or A.I in that Quoted talking point in their Article, if that's what they ment.
Again, maybe one of us misinterpreting the other one, but No Worries, Nobody here believes in Fairies or Unicorns🦄, it's all about trying to have fun!
Happy Gaming BAM✌!
Re: Game Pass Woes for Indie Devs as Microsoft, Epic Funding Reportedly Drying Up
I have Nothing New to Add about GamePass Feasibility, Except to say, I New this Day was Coming the Very First time that Micro$oft talked about Launching the X-Box One, with the Power of X-Cloud....🌧
Re: Rumour: PS5 Pro's 'Enhanced' Label Covers Resolution, Frame Rate, Ray Tracing Upgrades
@BAMozzy
With all things being equal, and an Apple's to Apple's comparison, Same Resolution to Same Resolution, Same Frame Rate to Same Frame Rate, and with Ray tracing added across both PS5 and PS5 PRO systems, and (NO PSSR 300 TOPS applied, so No Tensor cores applied).
If it means that the PS5 PRO's Custom GPU lifts a much Heavier Load by implementing Ray Tracing through its Custom SoC GPU Hardware, much Differently than what the Base PS5 GPU can do, and it's doing it with much Less demand on the PS5 PRO's CPU Load, versus the Base PS5's CPU Load, so that Freed Up CPU Overhead Gained strictly from Ray Tracing is still a major Gain for the PS5 PRO, and for its Frame Rate Generation in RT Mode, and Again that's only when Comparing both Base PS5 and PS5 PRO Ray Traced Games only, and then when you Add the additional 10% OverClock, with 28% Faster Ram, and 1.2GB more Memory available, I think it Loosens that CPU Bottleneck a lot more than just with the 10% Overclocked CPU(at least for Ray Traced Games), and again that's without Factoring in PSSR at all.
P.S- A Decreased CPU Load through an Upgraded SoC GPU is still a major Gain, as long as you like RT Mode turned on and with more capable Frame Rates than the Base PS5, and that's all I'm pointing out, so no one here is saying that it's magically adding Cores to the CPU itself, and No Major Overclocking, because after all its only Overclocked 10%, we're just talking about better GPU optimized RT loading here, with less CPU load because of it, and all because of the PS5 PRO's SoC GPU Upgrade versus the Base PS5's GPU, and so I thought the Article was interesting.
Happy Gaming Bam✌!
Re: Rumour: PS5 Pro's 'Enhanced' Label Covers Resolution, Frame Rate, Ray Tracing Upgrades
@BAMozzy
What?....I know that your not ruling out 60FPS on the PRO, and I also don't know where you're getting that the Article's Quote (that I Posted to you) is saying to drop to 1080p and then upscale then get 60 FPS...ect.....again What?
I was asking for your DIRECT Opinion, to the (Exact Quote) from the Article that I Posted to you...what happened?
What I gleaned from the Article myself is, that the Base PS5 typically uses CPU Processing as well as GPU Processing when doing Ray tracing, and that Sony's new GPU in the PS5 PRO (Unlike Base PS5) maybe using a Hardware Based SoC Solution to Apply Ray Tracing through the actual Custom GPU, that then directly applies Ray Tracing without using as much CPU Processing as the Base PS5 when doing it, so it's Freeing Up Even MORE CPU Processing in the PS5 PRO over what the BASE PS5 CPU can do, and that it will Further Reduce the Bottleneck to help Gain towards (a Natural) 60 FPS along with (and not including) the 10% Overclocked CPU and other upgrades in the PS5 PRO.
Again until Sony Addresses PS5 PRO and it's Full Specs, this is fun Speculation, but I thought the Article was very interesting, and brought up a valid point, a way for the PS5 PRO to Squeeze out more CPU over the Base PS5 for faster Frame Rates, by utilizing the Custom GPU Hardware in the PS5 PRO.
Happy Gaming Bam✌!
Re: Rumour: PS5 Pro's 'Enhanced' Label Covers Resolution, Frame Rate, Ray Tracing Upgrades
@BAMozzy
Like I said before, we both know where we stand, what I was curious about was your take on this part of the Article:
"On base PS5 and in PC games, real-time ray-tracing is also incredibly CPU-intensive, not simply GPU-intensive. However, console games can be optimized at an SoC level, and it seems as if the PS5 Pro's GPU may be tailor-made to offset those CPU bottlenecks otherwise introduced by real-time ray tracing on the console.
Considering the nature of these "PS5 Pro Enhanced" performance targets and the existing leaked specs, it may be too soon to rule out 60 FPS for PS5 Pro games."
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: New PlayStation CEO Hiroki Totoki Starts Temporary Role Today
Yoshida-san is correct in giving Jim Ryan kudos for how he and Sony handled the Launch of the PS5 during the Dog days of Covid, thats with barring ALL of the Scummy Scalpers out there!
But I still don't completely agree with Hiroki Totoki's overly aggressive approach (that Push Square mentioned before) to having more simultaneous Launches of PS First Party titles on both PS Hardware and PC for more profit, (especially if they do it early on) in a New Hardware Generation's Life Cycle, because it could easily slow down (some people) from adopting Sony's Newer Hardware with them just sticking with their PC Hardware, and playing Sony's Games on it instead.
But if done right, with a slower (Ramped Up Release Date approach) for First Party PS to PC Game release Dates, you can increasingly get them closer to that Near Parity Game Release date state, without Sony unintentionally cannibalizing some of their Hardware Sales in doing it.
For Example, At the Beginning of a New Generation with Brand New Hardware, you start by simply tapering First Party PS to PC Games Release Dates, starting from a Semi-Far Off Release Date, then through time gradually edging Game Releases into that Closer PS to PC Release Date Territory.
But again, only closing the Game Release Date Gap between PS and PC in a slow Methodical way as to Sync the PC Release Dates in time with the Increasing Age of the Newer PS Hardware, so that it doesn't Cannibalize too much of its own Hardware Sales from the start, and in turn it would Maximize Profits between both of Sony's Hardware and Software Divisions going Forward.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Rumour: PS5 Pro's 'Enhanced' Label Covers Resolution, Frame Rate, Ray Tracing Upgrades
@BAMozzy
Hello BAM, we both know where each other stands on the PSSR tech, but I came across this Link for TomsHardware that seems interesting, let me know what you think.
https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/console-gaming/playstation-5-pro-enhanced-requirements-allegedly-leaked
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Rumour: PS5 Pro's 'Enhanced' Label Covers Resolution, Frame Rate, Ray Tracing Upgrades
I'm Excited, I'LL be getting the PS5 PRO Day 1!
Has anyone ever considered that Maybe Devs will have to do a better job to Optimize Base PS5 Games the way they should be, but seemingly aren't, because it'll be the only way to use the Exra Power of the PRO (effectively) to get these upgraded FPS Speeds their touting.
Either way, I'm definitely getting one!
Re: Talking Point: How Do You Feel About the PS5 Pro?
@Shwing
Yeah Right!
I Don't Understand all the Negativity about a simple Mid-Gen Refresh, and especially with it coming in at a (Full Extra Year Later at 4yrs), which is actually Longer than the PS4 PRO did at 3 yrs after the PS4 Launched, so it shows that Sony's acutely aware of the Lag and Backlog that the Pandemic caused, and so their responding with a 1 year Delay with the PS5 PRO Launch in November 2024.
So again, why all the Negativity for it's Very Existence?
I mean it comes down to such a simple prospect...if you don't want it, simply don't buy it?
I'm Personally Excited, So I know I'LL get it Day 1, just like I Did with the PS4 PRO!
(I think there might be something to what you said in your Post)- "If Sony said they would exchange your standard 5 for a Pro, no-one would complain or have issue... So it basically comes down to defending your investment."
With a lot of people getting a PS5's late in this GEN's Console Cycle, you might be right, but still why so much hate?
After all isn't Gaming supposed to be about having Fun?
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: PlayStation Fans Torn on Prospect of PS5 Pro
@Aggirivator -(Question): "There's already dissatisfaction in the Xbox world about having to develop for Series X and Series S...is PS5 going down that same road?"
(ANSWER): Yeah I've seen other people trying to throw that monkey wrench into the Discussions, But It's simply not the Same with the PS5 to PS5 PRO.
I suspect Development will be pretty much the same way it was with Last GEN's PS4 to PS4 PRO, with the exception of the addition of PSSR Machine Learning in this GEN's PS5 PRO Model, which should make a lot of things even easier to achieve.
Developers typically work to Optimize the Weakest Console First to get the most out of it, then move on to the more Powerful Console to Upgrade, but the Difference in Hardware with "Series S" versus "Series X" has to do with them having "Less Parity" than Sony's Machines will have, so it takes MORE EFFORT from Developers to Upgrade and Optimize the Game going from the much weaker "S Model" to the "X Model", so just as an example, the "Series S has its Hardware Limited to only 10GB RAM" vs. a Massive "16GB RAM in Series X", and there other differences, too many to list, but you get the idea.
Where as the PS5 and PS5 PRO are "Closer in Parity" than the "S" is to "X" Model, just as an example PS5 and PS5 PRO Both have the SAME amount of 16GB RAM, the only difference being the PRO's RAM is Faster, same as with the PRO having the SAME CPU, it's just overclocked 10%, but you get the Idea, so the Developers will take the Already Optimized Base PS5 Games, and then simply Punch them up with the Faster Upgraded CPU,GPU, and RAM Hardware that's available in the PS5 PRO. So Simply Conversion with No major Development Fragmentation.
I'm Excited, and so I'm Definitely going to Buy the PS5 PRO Day 1, just like I bought the PS4 PRO Day 1!
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: PlayStation Fans Torn on Prospect of PS5 Pro
PS5 PRO will be a Day 1 Purchase for Me!
But I Also Managed to get the Launch PS5 on Day 1, so I think a lot of people taking the Poll weren't as lucky, with some maybe only getting a PS5 Recently, so I can see it from their perspective, in that it feels like a PS5 PRO is coming Market too quickly, and that's not even factoring in that more Games have been Cross Gen going from the PS4 to the PS5 than Any other Generation in History, so it only makes them lock down harder on that Prospective.
But those same people need to at least consider, that Sony Actually waited a Full Extra Year Longer at 4 Years, to Release the PS5 PRO version, Versus only 3 Years after the Base PS4 Launch, for the PS4 PRO to come out, so it makes a lot more Sense for People like myself, who've actually had the Base PS5 since or close to Launch Day, to want to upgrade and buy one.
Gaming is supposed to be about having Fun, So what I don't understand is all the Negativity about the Release or even Existence of a PS5 PRO Model?
I mean it doesn't Hinder anything for the Base PS5 Games in any way, and anyone thinking it does, only needs to look at the effect of the Last Gen PS4 PRO to Base PS4 Games, to see that it didn't change the Quality of the Games for the Base PS4 in any way.
It should be Simple for Everyone, If you don't like it, Don't buy it, but please don't be a Hater for those of us that are pumped up and excited about getting one.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
I do think it's true that we haven't seen the Full Power or Full Optimization of the PS5, and it's obviously do to the Wacky Chain Reaction of Game Development Delays, due to the Interruption of the Crazy World Pandemic.
But I think People need to Keep in Mind that Sony IS Releasing the PS5 Pro (One Full Year Later) than the shorter 3-year Mark that the PS4 Pro was launched at, and again it's most likely because of the Pandemic slowing things down, and when you Factor in that this Generation for Sony is probably going to last "maybe 8 years", and not just the 7 years that the PS4 did, then releasing the PS5 Pro in November of this year makes a whole lot More Sense, but that's only if you take Everything into account, and so if you look at the full scheme of things, and it still doesn't move the Bar for you on the reason for the PS5 PRO's existence, then it's simple, just don't Buy one, and be content with the Standard PS5 for the Next 4 years, and do so without complaining about people WHO ARE Excited about buying one, because in the End we're All Gamers looking to have Fun!
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Xbox Planning to Release the 'Majority' of Its Exclusives on PS5
@Scrubchub
I agree that they aren't (immediately) leaving the Hardware side of things, and their on record as stating that their Proper Next Gen Console will be the Largest Technical Leap seen in a Generation, so people need to curb Microsoft's Immediate Doom.
But what their doing by allowing ANY of their First Party Software on a Direct Competitor's Console is unprecedented, and does throw a Major Flag up to a possible Future with them focusing on what they've always stated their future vision has always been, "A Future where Your Able to Play(Stream) Games Anywhere and Everywhere through the Power of X-Cloud" aka...AZURE, and you Don't need any Specific Hardware to do that...aka Game Pass Everywhere, and Now they make this unprecedented move, so you've got to admit, it does legitimately make people (at the very least) concerned about Microsoft's Future in the "Classic Home Console Hardware Business" that Directly Competes with Sony's Consoles, and that's with you even taking into account that it's not necessarily the Immediate future, but it may well be off into their near Future.
So it is Scary for people to think about a Future where Sonys not being kept in check by ANY Real Competition.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Xbox Planning to Release the 'Majority' of Its Exclusives on PS5
@armondo36
I Totally agree with you, I've had every PlayStation Console, but I also had the 360, and Microsoft went downhill from there, and I was always hoping that they would get their Act together, but if they EVER actually leave the "Classic Home Console Hardware" side of things, and Mainly focus on Software only, we're ALL going to suffer from the Void left behind from the Lack of Competition, and I think Sony's going to get Medevil with ALL their Pricing, from Consoles to Software....Not Good...in Fact it's Pretty Scary Prospect.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Xbox Planning to Release the 'Majority' of Its Exclusives on PS5
Like so many people, I'm not surprised that Microsoft has Failed so badly on the Hardware side of things, and now is Turning to Software to try and turn things around.
The Beginning of the End Started after the Great success of the Popular 360, and then they mucked things up with Xbox one, with it Being Always connected, and the constant praising of the Power of X-Cloud, and it went straight downhill from there, because Microsoft went and tried to Force the Far Out Future of Digital Game Downloads and Game Streaming, Into the then "Current World of Gaming", which had much Slower Download Speeds, along with more unstable connections and they somehow thought it was a good idea to pursue?
Why did they go for it, especially since Internet Connections and Speeds were so much Poorer back then? (I then had only 12Mbs downloading speed, which in my area was Fast at the time, versus 1,200Mbs now...What a difference!)
One word, shortsighted (Greed), they strictly did it because it would be a much more Profitable Future for them to reach for, if it worked, even though its totally contrary to what the actual Gamers wanted, and to what the actual Technology and Average Internet speeds could support at that time.
Again, I can see it in my mind, after what I can only assume at the time was thought to be a Magnificent Brainstorming Session in the Microsoft Boardroom about the future of Xbox and All the Money they could make with a little less physical media in the wild and everyone forced to be tied into their ecosystem through X-Cloud, and then the next thing you know, what can only be called an abysmal Xbox One Launch happens, and so that's when essentially Sony quickly Ate there Lunch, as quickly as Sony Reps handed over that PS4 Game to Share onstage at E3, and the Xbox Brand has been going Downhill ever since, all because they tend to Force their Own Vision above and Over their customers own Ideas of what they Really Want things to be like in gaming (and tried to force a drastic market change, instead of reading the direction of the "then current market Pre-2013"), and here we are talking about their demise as Hardware makers...
It's a shame that they were so short sighted, because competition benifits everyone...
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Talking Point: How Do You Feel About the PS5 Pro?
PS5 PRO= Day 1 Purchase for Me!
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
@AtlanteanMan
I Personally don't see it as a throw away culture, at least not yet, (even though too many things these day's are), I say that because it's not like Sony's going to quit making Games for the Standardard PS5 that has the Larger Installed Base, the PS5 PRO is just an OPTION, it's not actually the Next Gen PS6, that'll most likely come out in 2027 to 2028.
Plus we're talking November 2024 for the PS5 PRO, which is a Full 4 Years after the Original PS5, in comparison to the PS4 PRO Launching only 3 Years after the Original PS4, and look at how that went, the Sky didn't Fall and yet they Kept Chugging out PS4 Software in mass and in fact they still are...Lol.
Again it's a choice, not mandatory or Next Gen, and so nothing has to be thrown away.
Edit: I'm only Applying my thoughts to the PS5 PRO that easily Piggybacks All of PS5's Software, now I Feel for you with the PSVR 2, that's a tougher sell, because if they don't do more Software for the PSVR 2, then that throw away culture comment you made, may WELL Apply to PSVR 2.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
@mvhess
Yeah I think they ment the PS5 PRO will do 8K 60FPS in a Future update, heck Sony claimed 8K for the Original Launch PS5, it's right on the Box..Lol.
But Until they show me, it's all Hyperbole...Lol.
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
@BAMozzy
I Feel where your coming from, but my Half Full outlook is, as Hardware Continues to Advance and it becomes More Easily Capable of Showing Higher Native Resolutions, Machine Learning needs to also be Advancing along side it, and while you might not think that it's a good thing at first, and it feels like their back sliding, and like their some how cheating us out of True Resolutions and True Hardware Based Frame Rates, and doing it by Artificially applying them through Machine Learning, I'm not worried about that, because I see a Future where Hardware Resolutions will Max out at 10K (the most definition the human eye can perceive) and Wicked Smooth High Frame Rates, but Machine learning will still be there to increase our Gaming Experience in so many other ways, in ways that we can't even imagine now, but we can't get to that Future if we don't embrace Machine Learning Now, even if for some people, it "At First" feels like a cheat, and that we're taking a hit, it still needed to happen, the sooner the better!
Heck Nvidia only started it in 2018 and now instead of 2ms latency like Sony, theirs is only at 0.5ms latency which is wicked fast, so Now Sony is following suit, and like I've mentioned many times before it's their I.P, so they may catch up fast to Nvidia and may even surpass them in short order, who knows, but I find it very exciting to see what they'll do with it! Exciting Times!
Happy Gaming Bam✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
@DennisReynolds
So besides Sony themselves, selling between 23 & 24 million PS4 PRO Consoles to date, In what sense did DF think of it as an after thought?
Because that's a Loaded self justifying statement without you giving the addition of a specific video reference from DF, and even if you could, it would also depend on the Context of the DF conversation, and on the Specific Subject Matter at that moment in time in the Video, to know what there actually making reference to, or are you trying to say that Every DF Video about the PS4 PRO was them typically Treating the PS4 PRO as an Afterthought to the Base PS4, and that there weren't enough improvements to justify its existence, because I've never heard them say that in any sort of way, in any of their Videos...so I'm confused...
I know that I Definitely Saw the Difference, and Played the difference on my 4K TV, so again I don't know what your talking about?
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
@BAMozzy
I totally agree and understand your concerns and I'm attaching a link below that demonstrates the very thing that you're trying to point out, and have been pointing out, that's why I keep telling you that we're more alike than you think. Only difference is I'm still Excited about buying this Generation Mid-Console refresh.
But as far as Sony, they Have Been Up-Selling the Base PS5 and it's capabilities from the start, and their doing the same thing for PS5 PRO, and "Technically" their not lying, so I know that you already know, that Most Games and there Resolutions and Frame Rates are all different from the Go, so as an example, a Simple game can run Wicked High Frame rates and Higher Native Resolutions like 4K, do to the Minimal Load Across the Board, so specifically for that Game it is actually 4K 60FPS, so Sony's "Technically not Lying", and now the numbers that Sony's throwing around with the PS5 Pro, they're stating that it "Not Only" can achieve 4K at 60 FPS, that it'll be able to achieve 4K at 120FPS, but can that it also at some point be able to do 8K at 60FPS...Crazy?
So the Question is How are they going to pull that Rabbit out of the Hat?...because you and I know unless somethings missing, your especially not going to get the "Monster Numbers" that I was referencing of say 4K at 120FPS and 8K at 30FPS, I mean we have to be missing some kind Outside the Box thinking, like maybe some Sony Trick architecture or Software, that works along with PSSR or some kind of Other Spec information that's possibly missing, who knows?
But I'm Excited to see, because personally, I'm already sold on the PSSR Machine Learning aspect, along with All of the other Leaked Specs so far for the PS5 PRO, let alone any New Info that Sony's going to spill in the near future on the PS5 PRO.
By the way, so that you can see that I understand what your talking about and your concerns with Games and Machine Learning, here's that link that I mentioned earlier.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-dlss-35-tested-ai-powered-graphics-leaves-competitors-behind
Happy Gaming Bam✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
@MomsSpaghetti
Simple,Right!
If they don't like the Idea for what ever reason they have, then don't buy one!
I especially love the people comparing Virtual Reality Gaming to Mainstream Gaming, and then say that the PS5 PRO is going to be a "Niche Product" just like the PSVR 2 Headsets collecting Dust in Sony's Warehouse...What?...Lol
The only reason it'll be slower in sales than the PS4 PRO (besides obviously this crummy economy), is if Sony releases the PS5 PRO at some CRAZY Price Point, or Low Balls us by selling it Stripped Down without the Disc Drive as an example, at $549.99 U.S and then makes everyone Buy the Disc Drive Separately for $79.99 U.S for a Total of $629.98 U.S, because I think it should be at a Max Total of $100.00 more than what ever the Base Disk PS5 is at the time of Lauch.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
@CielloArc
It can't be Back Ported to the Standard PS5, the PSSR Machine Learning is Hardware Built into the New PS5 PRO's Custom Graphics Chip, which is vastly Superior than any Software solution could ever be.
It's along the lines of Nvidia's version of Machine Learning with DLSS built into their Graphics Cards, which is Waaay Superior versus AMD's Sub Par FSR Software Upscaling Tech.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
@MomsSpaghetti
Ditto, it looked better on my 4K Display as well.
That's when Sony added 4K Checkerboarding to the PRO 4, just like their Now adding Machine Learning PSSR to the PRO 5, which is Waaay Better upscaling technology, so much better it's almost not even in the same Sport!
Mind you it was late in last Gen's Life Cycle, but how can anyone forget the CyberPunk debacle with them showing only the PRO 4 version, because the Base 4 was atrocious, and then say the PS4 PRO didn't offer much?
Selective Memory?
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
@DennisReynolds
I disagree, I had a PRO 4 day 1, and the Resolution and Especially the Frame Rates Greatly improved over the Base 4 on a lot of Games.
Don't take my word for it, All you need to do is look at Past Videos on Digital Foundry comparing the 2 with the same games to see the difference between them.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
@BAMozzy
I agree mostly with what your saying, except that I also think, just like Richard at DF, that there's some information about the PS5 PRO that WE Don't have(Maybe Better Compression Program...ect) we don't know, so we'll have to wait and see.
I'm a Optimistically Pessimistic person, "The Glass is Half Full, but I Still want to Know Where the other Half Is".
So I'm going to give them a Chance to tell me, and then see where were at with their supposed massive FPS Increase, and if it turns out to be BS, then I'LL Strip them Down with You, No Problem.
By the way I think we're more alike than we are different, we just differ on our approach to this News.
Happy Gaming Bam✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
@Fyz306903
With Sony being the No.1 Selling Console Manufacturer this GEN, Sony's Definitely NOT going to push out Next Gen until 2027 or 2028, but with Microsoft's current GEN Sales, that's a completely different situation, so they MIGHT push their Next GEN Console sooner, but either way I think Sony's PS5 PRO will help to Shape and Fine Tune (PSSR) Machine Learning for their Truly Next Gen PS6 Console.
I'm Definitely getting One.
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade
I think the PS5 PRO is still going to sell at least as well as the PS4 PRO in the end, but maybe at a slower pace at the beginning when considering the current economy, but people putting it in the SAME Niche Category as the PSVR 2 is ridiculous.
This Link from EuroGamer says it all.
https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-spec-analysis-playstation-5-pro-the-most-powerful-console-yet
I particularly like this quote in it.
"PS4 Pro effectively doubled the size of the GPU and doubled compute unit count, while PS5 Pro 'only' increases the size by 67 percent. However, thanks to machine learning-based upscaling, I believe that PS5 Pro should be able to deliver a Far Higher perceptual increase in Resolution vs PS5 than the PS4 Pro did against its junior variant"(PS4).
Again, I'm definitely getting a PS5 PRO!
Happy Gaming ✌!
Re: PS5 Pro's Proprietary DLSS-Esque Upscaler Sounds Superb
@BAMozzy
You do realize that we're both still saying the same thing...yet again, but the difference is you're taking us into the Woods and Circling the Trees and then ending back up at the exact same point that I made in the first place, but to further simplify it, let's start off with a base PS5 running "the same exact game" at some unspecified "but a higher native resolution" than 1080p as an example, but it's only running it at 30 FPS because of the base ps5's limitations, and because of the limited 10% CPU increase on PS5 Pro, you can't run or boost the "same exact game" to 60 FPS in a native 4K resolution because of it's limitations, you would then take the PS5 Pro, and "run the same game" at a "lower native tested resolution", for only as an example 1080p, and then crank the frame rate up to get the 60 FPS, and then apply PSSR to upscale the 1080p resolution up to an A.I generated 4K image!
That's exactly in condensed form, what I was saying from the go, but here we are, with you saying the same thing and telling me that I got something wrong...?
First of all you're the one that replied to my posting first, and not the other way around, and then you proceeded to throw the "Your Wrong Message" at me, yet I said hey no problem, no worries, we're good, and yet you continue to throw the "your wrong and don't understand me message" at me, if you don't agree with anything that I stated up in this posting, let's just agree to disagree, and move on.
Because gaming is about having fun, and I joined this forum to have fun and get excited speculating about the next bump up in Hardware power, I didn't know that someone would come at me Fast and Hard, and then proceed to club me like a baby seal, and or that I was going to be critiqued to death like its a job interview, and that you were going to militantly make sure that I actually know how to use C++, otherwise my opinions are completely invalid?
I'll say it again, have a good day, we're good, no worries, and happy gaming✌!
"The PS5 PRO is going to Rock!"