Comments 375

Re: What Is PSSR for PS5 Pro?

LogicStrikesAgain

@Coffeeglitch Well isn't he right about game design being hard? I so often hear people call devs lazy and incompetent. But i always have the feeling that it comes from people who know nothing of game development. Now if thats not the case ill take my words back.

Look im far from knowledgeable on this subject.
But developing a game is one of the hardest things to do.
Creating a game takes a lot of highly skilled people. People with a very diverse range of skillsets, from programmers to artists, sound engineers, AI, testers, writers, you name it. Who need to create something cohesive together. Which takes hundreds of people years to accomplish. Its the most technically complicated form of media to create. And it takes the longest. Even smaller AA or indie titles might take years to develop.
Plus lots of devs have to crunch or work overtime and in this industry, a lot of them are constantly stressed about deadlines, game failures and job losses.

Re: In the UK, You Can't Buy a PS5 Pro Disc Drive without Paying a Premium

LogicStrikesAgain

@Old-Red Is it really Sony thats forcing the move to digital though? Of all media types, gaming is probably the last that even uses physical discs. Films and music are mostly streamed. And in the gaming space there are two platforms namely PC and Xbox who are already almost or entirely digital.

Seems like Sony isn't really forcing the move to digital, its just the way its been going.
Even though some here want a disc drive, i really dont think its indicative of the larger userbase. We’re a bit of a niche group anyway.

Atleast Sony is still releasing consoles with the option to attach disc drives. Xbox already releasing their adorably all digital consoles. Im very curious to see what Nintendo does with the Switch 2. If that console is all digital. Sony will be the last in the gaming space that hasn’t gone full digital, in a space where gaming is already the last of all media types to havent gone mostly digital.

Re: In the UK, You Can't Buy a PS5 Pro Disc Drive without Paying a Premium

LogicStrikesAgain

@siofwolves I think Linus posted a video comparing (in real depth) digital and physical. Apparently, the difference in prices is not that big at all, small even. The only way physical came out on top in the comparison is if you buy and sell every game. That might be an inconvenience and you don't really build a collection, but its one of the cheapest way to game.

Re: PS5 Pro was a '5-Year Project', In Development Before PS5's Launch

LogicStrikesAgain

@Whately86 Oh if business was only as simple. No its not just a matter of subsidizing prices and it will be a success. First they do extensive market research. For the PS5 they probably predicted that it will sell in large volumes, around 100 million or more. For the Pro, being a niche product and having the experience with the PS4 Pro and how much that sold. They may have decided to not subsidize it, because if it sells low as they expect it will be a huge loss for them. Obviously this is all speculation.

You make a lot of assumptions about me and seem to think u know how i think about things. But you dont. 😉

Re: Sony Says the Best Time to Get a PS5 Is Now

LogicStrikesAgain

Older than the console generations you just mentioned.

Do you mean they are not technically possible?
Cause there are many games that are technically possible on older generations. Many games can be designed for PS5 that can technically be made possible for older hardware. Again, look at my previous post for the PC example. In the PC space its very usual for a current gen game to be playable on a very wide range of hardware, including very weak hardware.

Nope, the PS5 version of Miles Morales wasnt made for PS4, it has ray tracing and ssd loading which isnt possible on that system.

Take Starfield, a current gen game. Technically its not a generational leap over last gen. It has last gen mechanics, last gen loading, outdated graphics and facial animations. Definitely a game that would be feasible on last gen, albeit with less graphical fidelity. But still considered a current gen game.

Games can be intentionally made smaller like indie games, AA games or retro inspired games like TMNT. All current gen, but because of their game design, all tecnically possible to be played on last gen.

Games like Returnal and Demon Souls could definitely be feasible on last gen. They just didnt happen to make a PS4 version. But just like you said about Miles Morales, those worlds would be perfectly suitable for weak 2013 hardware. However even though those games have game designs that make it suitable for weak 2013 hardware, doesnt make them last gen games.

Last gen game designs and mechanics dont make a game last gen. Many current gen games use last gen game designs.

You think Dave the diver would be possible on last gen? If you think it would, do you also consider that a last gen game? And if not, what if they ported it to last gen? Would it then become last gen?

End of the day, you dont have to listen to me. I just think its easiest to define games by their console generation. You dont. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Re: Sony Says the Best Time to Get a PS5 Is Now

LogicStrikesAgain

@TrickyDicky99 Think of it as Alan wake 2 for PC. Its a current gen game right? But you can play it on older hardware, like a GTX 1070. It’ll be the same current gen game, you wouldn't call it last gen all of a sudden even though you’re playing with lower quality.

Thats the same with these PS5 games, they're current gen games, which you can play with older hardware and lower quality. But they remain current gen games.

Re: Sony Says the Best Time to Get a PS5 Is Now

LogicStrikesAgain

@TrickyDicky99 I might not completely understand your point.

Games can be designed around PS5, but still be technically capable of being played on a PS4 by lowering the graphical fidelity. Like what happens with many of these cross gen games. Miles morales was designed for PS5, but to also make it work for PS4 they had to cut resolution, graphical fidelity, ray tracing, fast ssd loading times, lighting, shadows, lod distance etc.
There are many games on current gen that are technically possible to be handled by last gen consoles.

Astro bot, i hope you agree is a current gen game. And while its designed around PS5, it is technically possible on a PS4. Again ofcourse, with less graphical fidelity.
So, what if they made a port of that game. Would you then also call it a last gen game all of a sudden, only because its now playable on the PS4?

You see there’s just too many caveats with your definition of generation. If you just look at which generation of consoles the games is released in, it would make things way easier and less confusing.

Re: Sony Says the Best Time to Get a PS5 Is Now

LogicStrikesAgain

@TrickyDicky99 “Release date has no bearing on what gen a game is”

Yeah i might not have explained myself thoroughly there. What i mean by release date. Is that by its date we can determine to which hardware generation it belongs to. So if it came out in the PS5 generation, also known as the ninth console generation. Or current generation. Then i consider it a game of that gen.
To totally clarify, anything that released after November 2020, to me, is classified as current gen. Also known as, the ninth console generation.

“Whatever the hardware that the game is designed around is”

By that logic, why call it last gen? Since those games are also designed around PS5

“So using your logic, PS4 Pro was a different gen to PS4 because PS4 Pro was doing stuff PS4 couldn't.
Nonsense”

This i really don't understand. You will have to enlighten me on this one.

And if i may be so bold as to answer your 3 questions to Rich33 about those games being last gen or not?

Yes, they are all last gen games. Cause they all came out in the eighth console generation. Except for Skyrim, which is an even older gen game.

Re: PS5 Pro was a '5-Year Project', In Development Before PS5's Launch

LogicStrikesAgain

@Porco Im just a bit confused by some of ur reasoning. I feel like you make a lot of assumptions about things. Im not gonna react to everything but only to some things that stand out to me.

You’re reasons about why studios and publishers will not care about optimizing for the base console i just dont buy. It might happen here and there. But i think it doesn't make financial sense for a studio to purposely put less focus on the version that has the most potential for sale. A game that is very unoptimized can get a lot of negative attention, which can be very damaging to its sales. So seems very counterproductive.

Like the Square enix example you gave, about purposefully creating a lesser version of FF Rebirth because they knew there would be a Pro. Why would it be in their interest to have all that negative focus on their game? It has only negatively impacted peoples perception of it. And if i understand u correctly, they do that cause they want to put their focus on the Pro, while theres not even a userbase for that console.

You compare game development to the PS1 to PS3 era. Saying games looked better at the end of that era and therefore thats proof that developers arent maximizing the power of the PS5. Ignoring the fact that systems were very different back then and they really needed years to figure it out. While systems now are more PC like, so less figuring out.

Also you call studios and developers lazy and again compare to previous eras. But fail to understand that game development has increased in complexity and takes almost double or triple the amount of time than in those days.

Then you say i give a free pass to cdpr for cyberpunk. Why?
I just said that your comparison wasnt accurate. Cause you were arguing that studios focused on Pro instead base PS4. I was merely saying that in that specific example it wasnt accurate, cause both PS4 and PS4 Pro versions werd inadequate.

End of the day, if you think studios will focus more on Pro versions and neglect the base version, thats fine. You decide how you act with that knowledge. I’d advise you to see if its true first before making judgements.

Re: More People Are Playing the Original Horizon Zero Dawn Than Its Remaster on PC

LogicStrikesAgain

@Keyblade-Dan Im also not a big fan of remasters and would like to see more new first party titles.
But we cant forget that these are just placeholders. As in, they’re here to cover the fact that there havent been many first party releases. Now if these remasters and remakes, which dont take much time and resources anyway, didn't happen. I bet you lots of people would be complaining even more about the lack of first party output. This way they atleast tried to mitigate it.

I just hope that whatever the reason for the lack of large output, probably just increased development time, will be done soon.

Re: More People Are Playing the Original Horizon Zero Dawn Than Its Remaster on PC

LogicStrikesAgain

@WizzNL Fair enough. Again i wasn't implying that the game isn't broken. It was just that I've never heard anything like it till now.
Same thing happened with Spiderman 2. I had zero bugs or technical issues on my whole playthrough, while some did encounter these. Im not very knowledgeable on the technical side. Im honestly curious about it.
So i wonder if anyone here knows how things like this can happen? How can different people download the same game code, but have different experiences?

Re: More People Are Playing the Original Horizon Zero Dawn Than Its Remaster on PC

LogicStrikesAgain

@Cerny You’re free to do so, but claiming “Nixxes did a REALLY bad job with this” seems a bit premature. None of the reviews mentioned anything like this. And it had 42 critic reviews on Metacritic. Maybe theres something wrong with ur version 🤔

@nessisonett Nope, not suggesting it didn't happen. Just saying it maybe has something to do with his version. Its just that this is the first time im reading of such gamebreaking bugs, similar to cyberpunk, especially having 40 in a few hours. If its that unplayable for everyone im sure we would have read it everywhere by now right?

Re: More People Are Playing the Original Horizon Zero Dawn Than Its Remaster on PC

LogicStrikesAgain

@EfYI I may not agree with the admittedly creative phrasing lol, but i do agree with the sentiment. If having to log in with a launcher can maybe verify users using a legitimate version, especially in the PC world where piracy is a big issue, im all for it.

If PC users just took the two mins of time that it took all Playstation users to sign up, they wouldn't be ‘inconvenienced’ again for all future Playstation releases on PC

Re: PS5 Pro was a '5-Year Project', In Development Before PS5's Launch

LogicStrikesAgain

@Whately86 It feels like you’re yelling at me with all the caps lol. Try and relax. You don't have to buy the Pro if you don't want to. You’re fine with a base console.
Look i know you want consoles to remain cheap, perpetually hovering around the $500 mark, but that isn't how inflation works unfortunately. This console isnt being subsidized by Sony like previous consoles. Cause that strategy only works if you expect a console to sell in very large volumes, making the loss worth it.

They are actually selling it now for what its worth, with a little bit of profit on it. The way most products and services are sold. Thats basically how business works. Buy and sell at a profit. Im not saying i like it, but thats the way it is. Now if you don't think its worth your money, i would seriously suggest moving on.

Re: PS5 Pro was a '5-Year Project', In Development Before PS5's Launch

LogicStrikesAgain

@Porco PS5 Pro is expected to sell only around 10 to 15 million in lifetime sales. Base PS5 already sold around 65 million. Probably selling more than 100 million in lifetime sales. Why do you think publishers wouldn't put their time and resources in optimizing games for the base?
Ofcourse they would do their best for that version, publishers want to make money on it. They cannot cater only to the Pro version which can only be sold to a very small market.

Problem is, by the time this gen probably ends (end of 2028?), the base PS5 will still be equipped with an equivalent of an RTX2070. So naturally as game engines and ambitions progress, the base is not going to be able to play the games as well. Were already seeing the start of it now with games not capable of handling these next gen engines and technology. Heck, even some higher end PCs might be struggling with Epic coming out with tech after tech that improves realism and graphics.

At the end of this gen, you might even be happy that there is anything like the Pro in the console space, cause base consoles with their specs are hardly going to keep up with some of the games. Imagine how demanding some of these games will be in 3 to 4 years. Obviously depends on what type of games, you will always have plenty of more stylized, AA, indie or less demanding games that will still look and play good on the base.

Cyberpunk is not a good example btw, cause that launched poorly on both PS4 and PS4 Pro. Why? Cause they obviously switched their target to being a current gen game, therefore all last gen versions weren't given that much attention.

Re: PS5 Pro was a '5-Year Project', In Development Before PS5's Launch

LogicStrikesAgain

@B0udoir Really? May i ask why you think that and may i point you to my post above while you contemplate it?
I dont think you have so much to fear. The PS4 Pro didnt cause studios to suddenly make poor versions for the base PS4.

And i hope you see the irony in your mention of Xbox. Cause they have been forcing studios from the start to make crappier versions of their games for their weaker console since launch.

Re: Sony Says the Best Time to Get a PS5 Is Now

LogicStrikesAgain

@TrickyDicky99 The most logical way to define games as being last gen or current is their release date. Anything other than that gets unclear and confusing.

Graphics, technical and hardware utilization and aesthetics dont classify a game to be last or current gen.

Current gen games can utilize non of the current hardware capabilities like ray tracing and still be considered current gen. And last gen might look prettier and use more innovative gameplay mechanics and designs than current gen games, but still wont be considered current gen.

You cant tell me Gran Turismo 7 isn't a current gen game, while it has ray tracing which is not supported on last gen consoles.
All those games are basically current games, with last gen versions. But they're still current gen.

The time at which a game is released determines the generation it belongs to, that is the most logical way to classify last or current gen in my opinion.

Edit: Those games are definitely not the exact same, as already explained by the previous post. They look and play worse on last gen consoles and don't use next gen technology such as ssd loading and ray tracing. Because they are specifically developed, released and marketed as current gen games.

Re: Sony Says the Best Time to Get a PS5 Is Now

LogicStrikesAgain

@Rich33 Yeah i have to agree with this sentiment. I find it weird when people call these games last gen games. They are definitely current gen. Why? Because they released in current gen. That they're playable on older consoles doesn't make them last gen. Many cross gen games even have ray tracing features not possible on older consoles.

Re: Sony Says the Best Time to Get a PS5 Is Now

LogicStrikesAgain

@Porco Wow, a lot to unpack there. Im not gonna be able to answer everything but ill try to share some of my thoughts.

“yea, elden ring is also on ps4 so no loss there”

I need some clarification first though. In the discussion ‘the PS5 has no games’. Does a game that came out during this gen not count, because its playable on older hardware? Its still a game playable on PS5 right? Was cyberpunk not a next gen game, because it too was playable with worse graphics on an RTX 10 series? Or for example does Mario Kart not count as a game for the Switch because its playable on last gen?
Its hard to have a discussion about these topics, cause everybody seems to have different goalposts.

As an example. Can i regard Gran Turismo 7 as a PS5 game? Because its also playable on the PS4.
To me, it would be weird if i cannot count that game as a game for PS5. You see, it can get very murky if we dont have the same ground rules of what is considered a PS5 game in this discussion.

Basically, when i argue that the PS5 has many games. I also count multiplatform and cross gen games.

“i don't think there is any way to defend the current state of playstation by dismissing the importance of exclusives like that”

I dont dismiss it at all, it was you who said that Playstation has only 1 true exclusive this year because FF and SH2 might be going to PC after a year. So im trying to find what the goalposts are for calling something exclusive, in order to know how to argue my point. I’d say PS has many console exclusives, but if i have to take out games ported to PC. Then they have less. But still more than most platforms.

“the ps5 to this point has been stuck in cross gen territory for many of its 1st party titles.”

Nope, actually 1st party started with current gen titles straight from launch with titles like demon souls, ratchet and clank rift apart, destruction allstars, godfall and returnal, some of them highly acclaimed titles. But they really went full current gen last year starting with spiderman 2 onwards. Third party started even before that with big titles like Final Fantasy 16. I’d say most notable titles that came out the last year were already current gen only.
Also, cross gen isnt a factor of whether a game is innovative or next gen. Look at a game like Starfield, which is current gen only, but has the underlying mechanics of a last gen game. Also cross gen games can get enhanced with features not available to past gen consoles like ray tracing and fast ssd loading, think Resident evil village or Spiderman miles morales.

Look i get where you’re coming from. I think the debate you’re having is if the jump from PS4 to PS5 is warranted. And that discussion might indeed go a different way. Im also not ranking this gen to other gens, cause that too is a different discussion. Only thing im arguing against is the statement “PS5 has no games”

Re: PS5 Pro was a '5-Year Project', In Development Before PS5's Launch

LogicStrikesAgain

@nessisonett No games compared to what though? It has all the multiplatform games every other platform has, except for Nintendo. And even has console exclusives. PC doesn't have notable exclusives games to their platform, that could be called system sellers, as far as i know. Playstation atleast has noteworthy exclusives. Even if some of them might end up on PC years later.

Regarding last gen, i just talked about this in another post. But a lot of the critically acclaimed games from last gen were also sequels or games from existing franchises.
Examples: Tlou2, Red dead 2, Persona 5, God of war, Metal gear 5, Uncharted 4, Monster hunter world, The witcher 3.
Also remakes/remasters like: Resident Evil 2, Shadow of the Colossus, GTA5, Journey.

But im curious, since you say theres just no games. Don't you count multiplatform games? Or do you not play/enjoy those games?

Even if you only play exclusives, i’d still rank Playstation only second to Nintendo. With PC third and Xbox last for obvious reasons.

It just seems likea stretch to say theres no games for the PS5, when there are so many good games coming out every year. And yes, also new ips etc.

You say factually it has games, but public perception says it doesnt. Well i guess i’ll go with the facts then

Re: PS5 Pro was a '5-Year Project', In Development Before PS5's Launch

LogicStrikesAgain

@nessisonett “yet the games just aren't there”

Do you only play exclusives? Cause there are hundreds of games to play on the PS5.

On metacritic, last gen had 33 90+ rated games for the whole PS4 generation.
PS5 already has 22 in the middle of this gen. And we’re not even in the last third of the gen, where most of the exceptional games tend to be released.

Now idk what games you like, maybe you're a picky gamer. Thats why i just went with the highest rated. They’re atleast critically acclaimed games.

Going by that, this gen might even end up having more high quality games than last gen. Still everybody saying theres no games. Meanwhile im here in backlog hell, every year, getting bigger and bigger

Re: PS5 Pro was a '5-Year Project', In Development Before PS5's Launch

LogicStrikesAgain

@Whately86 I am able to buy a Pro and in no way have i ever thought that people with less means than me aren't entitled to complain or differ in opinion. My reasonings have nothing to do with being rich or poor. I take each product and service and decide with a bit of research if i find prices are reasonable or not. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. And so am i.

I see some of these prices as justified. Thats why i accept them. Has nothing to do with being poor or not. There can be products that are way over my budget. But i can still reason if i find those prices justified or not. Does not matter whether im able to buy it to have an opinion on it.

The Pro is priced a bit too high for my taste. But knowing a bit about component pricing, inflation, a non-subsidized pricing strategy by Sony for the Pro and seeing as i cannot find anything with those specs anywhere else for the same price or cheaper. I have decided that i find the price reasonable.

Re: Sony Says the Best Time to Get a PS5 Is Now

LogicStrikesAgain

@Porco Nope, i just created my own train of thought. Im reacting specifically to people commenting here and other articles that this gen sucks software wise.

I argue this gen has lots of games to play. Most of the games i listed were atleast rated an 85 on metacritic. With some in the 90s. And that is just one year of the current gen. This gen has seen games that rival the best of last gen. Games like Baldurs gate 3 and Elden Ring to name just a few. And we’re still only halfway current gen.

Some of the best games last gen also were sequels in existing franchises, not everything were new ips.
Examples: Tlou2, Red dead 2, Persona 5, God of war, Metal gear 5, Uncharted 4, Monster hunter world, The witcher 3.

Now if people cant enjoy games because they're also available on other consoles, PC or even last gen consoles. Well thats their prerogative. But that leads to a narrow path of fulfilment. And hardly warrants a “this gen has no games” comment.

If your definition of true exclusives means not having any PC ports. That would mean Nintendo is the only one that has true exclusives, still followed by Playstation. Does the PC have any notable games or “system sellers” that are true exclusives to that platform?

Also, i dont get the ‘doesn't take full advantage of PS5 hardware if its cross gen’ argument. Cross gen games obviously run and look much better on PS5 because they use the extra power of the console.

Re: PS5 Pro was a '5-Year Project', In Development Before PS5's Launch

LogicStrikesAgain

@Member_the_game I think thats fair. I dont suppose Sony targets these mid gen refresh to everybody who already owns a base console anyway.
New costumers might still be upgrading from a PS4 or PS4 Pro.
I know i went from a PS3 to a PS4 Pro.
People are getting way too upset about a additional console that they don't intend to buy anyway.

Also, people who complain about new consoles not immediately having a lot of next gen only games probably don't get how expensive it is to make games now. This isnt the PS1-2 or N64 era. A typical game then took around 1 to 5 million $ to develop. So naturally they started developing next gen games earlier in the console life cycle than now. Its in no way comparable and people should really stop comparing those eras to present day.

Re: PS5 Pro was a '5-Year Project', In Development Before PS5's Launch

LogicStrikesAgain

Im not even gonna read all these comments, cause most already sound very unreasonable.

News flash, a lot of products begin years prior to release. And no, it couldn't have came out instead of the Ps5, cause then it would have needed to start production 5 years earlier than it had. And then the technology wouldn't even have existed.
And yes people forget, the PS5 was actually a good machine for the time and that price.

And for people saying PS5 came too early. No, it would be stupid to wait a year to release the PS5, because Xbox released theirs and that would have really taken a hit on their market share.

Re: Sony Says the Best Time to Get a PS5 Is Now

LogicStrikesAgain

@B_Lindz True. But what im wondering is why some are saying this gen sucks software wise? Do they only mean in terms of exclusive games? And if so, im just wondering if they do not play and enjoy 3rd party multiplatform games.
There are thousands of games out if you own a PS5, i’d argue we’re spoilt for choice, rather than theres no games.

And even if its pure exclusives people are after, Playstation probably still has the most notable exclusives for their system after Nintendo.

Re: Sony Says the Best Time to Get a PS5 Is Now

LogicStrikesAgain

To follow up on my post. This is just a few of the games that came out this year, or are still gonna come out. In no way is this a comprehensive list, just a glimpse of what a typical year in gaming delivers

Astro bot
Elden ring shadow of the erdtree
Metaphor refantazio
Final fantasy rebirth
Dave the diver
Destiny the final shape
Balatro
Last of us 2 extra mode
Tekken 8
Like a dragon
Animal well
Hi fi rush
Unicorn overlord
Prince of persia the lost crown
Silent hill 2
Dragons dogma 2
Call of duty black ops 6
Thank goodness youre here
Dragon age: the veilguard
Neva
Helldivers 2
Rise of the ronin
Stellar blade
Ultros
Pacific drive
Granblue fantasy relink
Zenless zone zero
Sea of thieves
Mlb the show
Fc 25
F1
NBA 2k
Slitterhead
Lego horizons adventure

Obviously theres so much more, but these are the more notable ones. Thats almost 3 games coming out each month. Some critically acclaimed. Both from existing franchises and new ip. From all types of genres and from AAA to indie. Some of these take 50+ hrs to complete.

Really, i cant find the time, i automatically have a backlog. And that is just this year. I still have a backlog from the last 3 years. It seems to me that whatever console you have, but in this case if you have a PS5, you're eating good. So how does it suck?

Re: Sony Says the Best Time to Get a PS5 Is Now

LogicStrikesAgain

Why is this such a bad gen software wise according to so many? So many games have come out these past few years, its almost an accomplishment to not have a backlog by now.
Or do people here only play exclusives?
In that case, this year Playstation has 9 exclusives. Is that really so bad?
Or is it that you only play first party games?

The way i see it, there have been games coming out yearly in a staggering pace, that i can hardly keep up with. My backlog is immense, i cannot play all these games that are coming out. It seems like there are hundreds of games coming out each year.
I guess you guys either have way more free time than me and can play all these games. Or y’all standards are super high in what ure looking for in gaming.