LogicStrikesAgain

@get2sammyb Yeah, actually that’s exactly what i was worried about. Like i have no idea how to even approach it at this point. Well, we’ll see, i might check it out one day. Funnily enough, i actually had it downloaded once, but deleted it before i ever played it

I’ve never played a Bungie game, well, literally a half hour of Halo, but never Destiny. Never even felt compelled to watch footage of the game. But i decided to check this out. And i must say, this kinda looks awesome!

Never realized the art and world design, characters and lore looked so cool. So this is like an expansion right? I’m totally new to this, but this really intrigued me

Edit: Never mind, it’s in the title 😅

@RudeAnimat0r I agree with the rest of your message, but diminishing returns? Come on now, Ratchet & Clank: Rift apart was up there with some of the best of the series 🙀

@Dalamar

Sony western studios are stuck making nothing but "deep cinematic experience". Crash, Spyro, Jak, Ratchet, Sly - all dead.

Fortunately eastern studios still make games like Astrobot.

But just wanted to say, Sony doesn’t own the Crash and Spyro IP. Microsoft does, and if rumours are to be believed there might be a Spyro revival.

Oh, and a new Ratchet & Clank game released 4 years ago

Very excited to see what they’ve been cooking

Great games, but a bit depressing to still see GTA5 make it in the top 10 consistently. I’m surprised by the Spiderman games making it in the all time top 20 though 🤯

Especially Spider man being the #6 in most units sold, that’s kind of amazing i would not have guessed to be honest, it sold even better than all but 1 Call of Duty game

Fair enough. But maybe Sony could let an external studio take a shot at the IP?

The art design is just beautiful! 😍 But some of those textures do still bug me, couldn’t they put some better looking textures on some of those assets?!

@KundaliniRising333 Fair enough.

I’m no fan of modern day capitalism myself, and even though i see gaming companies as a bit of a lesser evil than other companies i can totally get where you’re coming from

@KundaliniRising333 Actually, i was reffering to how companies look at competitors when setting the prices for their products. Seeing as Xbox is their main competitor and has similar specs, it’s not strange to compare them in the context of pricing. Setting prices based on competitors pricing happens in every industry.

Many people want Sony to lower the price on the ps5 but overlook the fact that it’s already cheaper than their main competitor which has similar specs. So no “console war jargon” here, just looking realistically at the strategies used by these companies when determining their prices.

I see “console warring” gets thrown around a lot lately whenever someone compares companies and produtcs. Probably says more about what people are preocuppied with 😇

@KundaliniRising333 I’m convinced at this point that whatever the PS6 will eventually cost, even if its cheaper than Xbox (which it already is), and considering how everything has skyrocketed in price lately, you will still be here saying its too expensive 😜

@Ricky-Spanish For what it’s worth, i apologize if i came on too strong with reacting to your comment. I didn’t expect it to have such a long tail. Sometimes i just call things as i see them, but i didn’t intend to turn this into a whole saga 😆

At the end of the day we all share the same hobby, so peace brother ✌🏼✌🏼😉

@RoomWithaMoose

No one is saying "bashing" besides you

Literally the first comment.

I don't want to break down the whole article again

I wouldnt call that a breakdown, it actually reads more like a bashing, or perhaps a ”heavily obviously biased” breakdown? 😜

Yes that helps 😁 @Ricky-Spanish

Good day gentlemen 🎩

@RoomWithaMoose

I mean, if your claim is that this is impartial reporting of a thing someone in the industry said, it's not

I never claimed they were impartial. Neither Pure Xbox not Push Square are impartial. This site has a bias, it’s a Playstation-centric website. Pure Xbox also has a bias. No need to explain that to me, i’m pretty sure everyone here understand that. When i say this article isnt bashing, doesnt mean i think this article isnt biased.

The title references 'tension' without context, already disparaging Game Pass

The title of the article actually refers to Pete Hines own words describing the tension between the creators and the lack of value and reward they get. It’s just highlighting whats being said in the quotes 🤷🏻‍♂️

we immediately double down on the anti-Game Pass narrative with the most sensationalist phrase

I didn’t double down on anything. Someone said it was bashing, and i reacted to them. You don’t even know my stance on Gamepass.
Perhaps you should reply to those people who are making anti-Gamepass claims?

And we end with an editorialized summary of the topic. Which is fine, but anything but impartial.

It’s an opinion of the writer, he’s allowed to share his views on the matter. But is it bashing though? I don’t think so. People cant have opinions anymore? He even calls Gamepass great value 🤦🏻‍♂️

I do recognize bias. But bias does not equal bashing. In this case it’s just the writers own perspective.

Which ignores that PS+ is just a worse (for the consumer) version of Game Pass

It doesnt ignore it. It just isnt whats being discussed here. The lack of value and reward from MS towards developers is what these ex-Microsoft executives are bringing up, not the consumer experience.

A tangent about how daddy Sony is better than Game Pass

You mean this?

PlayStation, to its credit, has consistently said it believes the Xbox Game Pass model is unsustainable. Earlier in the generation, the organisation was put under a lot of pressure to copy the business model.

It eventually introduced multiple tiers of PS Plus, which provide a rolling catalogue of releases, including some day one games. However, it’s always resisted the temptation to devalue its own software in the service upon release.

I wouldn’t call this bashing. I’d call this providing context. It’s giving a little backstory for the people who might not know how both companies hve approached their subscription services. They can’t assume everyone already knows the context. Not all people are gaming nerds like us 😉

A whole paragraph dedicated to saying Microsoft is full of s***

You mean this?

Despite a ton of discussion on the topic, Microsoft has always insisted that its subscription is profitable. Although it’s gone through various price increases and adjustments over the past few years, and the company obfuscates its actual profits.

Isnt it widely reported that Microsoft obfuscates it’s actual profits? I feel like these are just facts, not bashing Microsoft.

Again, being biased doesnt mean bashing. You can critique things without bashing it. Ironically, your breakdown of the article reads more like a bashing than a fair critique

@Briarback

You mean like how Sammy is implying stuff at the end of the article, after he just "posted quotes" — ”Ultimately, we think it’s probably safe to say that while Xbox Game Pass does represent great value, it’s not the future of gaming, as was hypothesised at the start of the generation."

Are you also saying that this quote, where he even acknowledges the fact that Game Pass does represent great value, somehow implies that he’s bashing Xbox/Gamepass?

Come on now, if the sensitivity is that high, then no one can ever give an opinion and nothing can ever be discussed without people yelling that it’s “bashing”.

That quote just seems like a summary of his views on the matter: Great service, but not necessarily the future of gaming. I dont know if i agree with that take, but it seems like a reasonable one don’t you think?

If this is him bashing then this might go down as the weakest bashing recorded in history

@TruestoryYep

Truth is, the games that fail on Game Pass just weren't good anyway and if not for Game Pass, nobody would be playing them anyway. There's plenty of success stories like with Clair Obscur.

He’s not talking about games failing or being successful on Game Pass though. He’s talking about creators not being valued and rewarded properly.

Pete Hines had nothing to say about Bethesda being the first company to add microtranscations to a single player game.

I don’t quite understand what this has to do with anything thoug. He was asked about subscriptions, so he’s gonna talk about Game Pass. What does this have to do with it? Do those decisions Bethesda made in the past somehow discount his opinion on Game Pass today?

And both Shawn and Sony wouldn't know if Game Pass is sustainable since they're basing their logic on PlayStation itself failing in terms of its subscription service.

Shawn Laden was CEO of Playstation. I think both him and Sony know much better than you and i how much a service like thats costs to maintain and develop and if it’s sustainable long term

@UltimateOtaku91 @lazarus11 True!

There seems to be a bit of a bubble on Pure Xbox, where most agree with everything Xbox does and few criticize them. Probably because of the smaller userbase the site has, so mostly die hard fans are active i guess.

Push Square on the other hand, has way more users, so higher chances of many people that dislike Sony. So i feel like Sony also gets way more hate and criticism on here, which is good overall, keeps things balanced.

But it’s also the reason i’ve mostly stopped commenting on Pure Xbox, as personally i find it harder to find unbiased/nuanced opinions there

@Ravix

and you think people talking objectively about the negatives are an attack on this dear company that you love, for some reason

Exactly right, it’s like we can’t even discuss things objectively about the gaming industry anymore, without people saying its about bashing other companies or services.

I don’t care if people prefer Playstation or Xbox. I just don’t understand why people can’t discuss things nuanced and objectively anymore. The amount of deflection, cognitive bias and dissonance in discussions online can be staggering sometimes

@Ricky-Spanish

Pure square isn't playstation I can be critical of this site and it has nothing to do with playstation the console or Sony!

just like I can give an opinion on it aswell works both ways.
Especially with a comments section on the story they are looking for peoples opinions on the subject I gave mine.✌️

For the record, you’re totally allowed to have an opinion. I’m just reacting to your opinion. That’s what happens in public discourse, maybe get used to it in stead of saying you can’t critize Push Square or Playstation 🤷🏻‍♂️

You can totally criticize Playstation btw, most here do that constantly, so be my guest ✌🏼✌🏼✌🏼

@Ricky-Spanish

Ok??
But at the same time isn't I story like this stocking a console war??

Reporting on quotes from people in the gaming industry who have insight in these things is important, it can give better insight than most of us discussing these things we hardly know about.

Funny how you say Hine’s quotes can be considere fueling a console war, but i’d say, your quotes about PS “bashing Game Pass/Xbox” can be considered stocking a console war way more than reporting on his quotes 🤷🏻‍♂️

@Dalamar

I'm not a developer, shareholder or CEO. I'm not even a fanboy. I simply play games. And for me being able to play Doom Dark Ages, Clair Obscur, Wuchang and Ninja Gaiden 4 day one for a price of game pass sub is very beneficial. Throw feces at me if it will help you to sleep at night.

No feces will be hurled at you my friend. If someone in the industry says content creators aren’t properly valued and rewarded, and you don’t care, then feel free to sleep sound at night, fecesless 😆

@Ricky-Spanish You imply it though, by immediately turning to saying things like: they’re bashing Xbox/Game Pass etc.

Maybe you’re not into console wars, but lets just say this, people who immediately turn to saying those things usually are ✌🏼

so I won't be tracking down this dude to give him telling off it's not that important really

“take it up with the ex Bethesda chief” is just a figure of speech, you don’t really have to track him down 😉

What i mean by it, is that Push Square is only reporting on his quotes. It’s not like Push Square is bashing any service or platform as you said in your original comment.

These are pretty important quotes from someone who has insight in the industry and Game Pass.

So if he says, with caveats, that content creators aren’t properly valued and rewarded then that should be listened to, in stead of immediately telling for a gaming news site that they’re “bashing” your favorite service or platform. Not everyone is preoccupied with console wars as some of you guys are

@Ricky-Spanish @Darkri74345

Nothing like a good old gamepass/Xbox bashing to start the weekend guys!!

Push Square is the worst about this. They’re purely negative about almost everything

You do realize these quotes come from someone else right? Push Square is just reporting on it. If you think this is biased, take it up with the ex Bethesda chief.

Push Square on the other hand, is even saying Game Pass “does represent good value”

If anything, Push Square seems to be negative about everything, even Playstation half of the time i feel

@Nyne11Tyme

Saros, Marathon, Yotei, Wolverine, Venom, Galactic....all need to BANG

Not judging, but i think you’re on the wrong website, my friend 😏

I’d watch that crossover though 👀😆

I am not the target audience for this IP, and the first showing of this game did not appeal to me at all, so i decided not to watch this live.

But now that i’ve watched it, i must say it does look good. Combat looks good, shooting as well, graphics are nice, love these big crowds, nice gameplay, only the driving looks a bit weird and floaty.

But all in all, it impressed me, good SoP. Now on to the next one! 😉

Seriously?! Let’s goooooo 😎

@Ainu20

You would price the non-digital PS5 at $380 in 2025, so $70 cheaper than the Switch 2 which offers significantly less performance, and $220 cheaper than a non-digital Series X which offers equivalent performance.

Playstation does not exist in a vacuum.

I was literally gonna reply that same exact thing, almost word for word, except for the last sentence. Already had it typed out, but I was just kind of stunned by that whole response that i just didnt know how to react to it further. But yeah, well said lol 👍🏼

@BAMozzy If cost of entry to an ecosystem is the issue, there are many options to circumvent that. You could buy a second hand PS5 for example, and i’ve seen them go for as low as $150.

But that’s not the main issue people are discussing here. People are claiming the PS5 is too expensive. But in reality, the PS5 is the cheapest high end console on the market.

There aren’t any high end consoles that are cheaper than a PS5. It’s $50 cheaper than an Xbox and $50 more than the new Switch 2. I think thats a totally fair price. I think it’s unreasonable for people to expect Sony to make the PS5 cheaper than a Switch, especially since the PS5 has higher end hardware.

And as many have pointed out already, that baseline price point of $300 you mentioned, if you account for inflation, would still be between $500-$600 in todays money. So the pricing doesnt really seem out of line.

Unfortunately, due to inflation, the affordability of these consoles might start pricing people out. I’m not saying i agree with it, but that’s what he current situation is

@Porco

the ps5 pricing model is an absolute disaster!

Current prices:

• Xbox series X - $600
• Xbox series X Digital - $550
• Nintendo Switch 2 - $450
• PS5 - $550
• PS5 Digital - $ 500

Before the Switch 2 released the PS5 Digital was also at $450, but i can definitely understand that they couldn’t keep those prices, especially since the PS5 is a more powerful machine.

Even after the recent increase, i think Sony has priced their console competitively and fair compared to their competition in the console space. How would you price the PS5?

Actually, for everyone here saying the PS5 is priced too expensive. What do you think they should price it at? And should they totally ignore competitors pricing when determining that?

@Balosi You’re right! So they will really have to think carefully about how they’re going to approach next gen.

Next gen consoles will either be very expensive, and thereby alienating a large part of the userbase. Or they could go back to a loss leading strategy by heavily subsidizing the cost of their console, and having to rely on software sales to make up for those losses.

But component prices do go down eventually, but maybe not in the same way as in the past. So comparing console price decreases to previous generations is futile.

Just as we can’t compare high end smartphone prices of today to what they were 15-20 years ago, we also can’t compare console prices or decreases of today to what they were n the past.

Economic conditions change, technology sometimes reaches plateaus, which affects pricing. Things might change again in the future though, i’m not saying it will always stay like this

The real reason is that the industry is too bloated. Too many games constantly releasing, and they can’t all expect that their games will sell over 10M. There’s just not enough free time for people, and money to be spend for all these games releasing. The market is saturated

Just to clarify, consoles in the past used to lower their prices during a console generation because the cost of the components went down. Now that component prices didn’t really go down, and in some cases went up, how do people expect them to lower their prices?

Not only did their main competitor increase the pricing on their consoles, almost all consumer electronics that uses these parts have increased in price. Actually , consoles hardly even increased in price relative to other consumer electronics such as phones, pc parts etc.

I think people often reason too much with how they feel things should cost rather than understanding why they’re priced that way. Why should consoles be the only product immune to rising costs and inflation? (Which affect all industries today)

All this talk about PS5 being too expensive, i bet building a PC with the same specs still comes pretty close to the same costs as the PS5. Shouldnt console prices also be based on manufacturing costs?

Why is Sony criticized for their pricing, while again, they have the cheapest high end consoles on the market. If high end consoles could be made that much cheaper, then why aren’t competitors lowering their consoles prices?

It already only costs $50 more than the new Switch 2. Are people suggesting it should be priced the same, especially since the PS5 has better hardware?

Meanwhile PS5 is the cheapest high end console on the market 🤷🏻‍♂️

Didn’t MH:Worlds reach 10M sales already in march this year? Probably sold even more now. How high were their expectations in the first place?

Can’t really blame a platform for your games not selling up to your standard though. Why not lower the pricing of your own games in stead of complaining to other companies that they should lower theirs. When some of these CEO’s talk they make it seem like i can be a CEO 🤦🏻‍♂️

I think i’m one of a few who didnt think the trailer was appealing at all, but hey maybe this’ll change my mind, wont be watching it live though, just not interested. Hope they still do a proper SoP near Tokyo Game Show

They should just be upfront, show what build they currently have to the world, and ask people if its interesting enough or not? If not, just cancel it, many people will understand and already expect it at this moment

Combat looks sick! But i have to say, those ground textures are buggin me. How can they make the decision to leave it like that?

Serious respect to these guys! I havent been gaming a lot lately, but i am gonna pick this game up eventually! It just keeps getting better and better and this just looks frickin awesome! Good job HelloGames 👍🏼

@Andy22385

Look at the piss poor performance we're getting in some games already and theres still a few years of the gen left. This gen was touted as 4K/60

What do you mean? Plenty of games run at 4k60, especially in the beginning of the consoles life cycle, but that can’t always be the case.

Graphics and engines keep progressing, engines are capable of more things and technologies emerge that require more and more graphics power. Do you expect games to not progress in fidelity? Games become more sophisticated, bigger, better textures, more complex AI and higher fidelity. Thats why new PC graphics cards keep releasing every year.

So ofcourse a ps5, with a graphics card equivalent of a rtx 2070, isnt going to be able to hit targets like 4k60 forever, because games get more demanding to run.

Heck, even a PC with a 4000 series rtx card can’t even play some of these new games on 4K60 anymore, and thats a newer card than what’s in a ps5.

It’s called progression, that’s just how technology works. We can’t expect the ps5 to just keep up indefinitely with increasingly demanding games

To all the people waiting for ps5 to be pushed to its limits: The limit has been reached a while ago. Right now we have 1440p60 with a little bit of ray tracing, 4k30 with full ray tracing or even 4k60 without ray tracing. Not really sure what some of you guys are waiting for.

Games like Death Stranding 2, Hellblade 2, Indiana Jones, GoW: Ragnarok, Horizon FW, Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora, Wukong, Alan Wake 2 and even Astro Bot are some of the best looking games we’re gonna see this generation.

Sure there’ll probably be some even prettier graphics coming like GTA6, Intergalactic and Forza 6. But people here act like there’s so much horsepower being left on the table or something. There’s not gonna be some revolutionary graphics upgrade. Thats not how this works, we’re already approaching photo realism and there’s only so much current tech can do.

The ps5 has an equivalent of a rtx2070, so i dont know what more everyone expects from this machine

People here sound like grandpa’s talking about the good old days of past generations. Yeah houses used to cost a years salary. But times change. The world is changing fast. The PS6 generation might be even more different than any generation before it.

Heck, consoles might be a thing of the past sooner than we think. We might even have flying cars everywhere in a few decades. Things are progressing exponentially and people need to adjust to things changing faster than ever, and not compare everything to how things was done 15, 10 or even 5 years ago

I love the contrast of how some are complaining about new consoles coming up while others say ps5 already has old hardware.

I wonder if there’s another industry where it’s userbase constantly complain about new hardware being released? Do people get mad when new cars, laptops or furniture comes out? Probably they just let other people buy what they want and decide for themselves if they want to upgrade or not

@LifeGirl

That simply is not true. Consoles upon release are already old tech. That is how they (in theory) make them cheap. The PS5 is a dinosaur compared to even a basic gaming PC.

I was talking about PCs that match the specs of the console, because ofcourse you can buy PC’s with far better specs than the current generation consoles, but it’ll cost an appropriate amount more.

If you buy a PC thats similarly specced at the launch of a console it will cost you more. Yes maybe if you wait to buy it towards the end of a consoles life cycle it might be a different story, but that then begs the question, why would you even buy a PC with such old specs?

The reason console manufacturers can make them cheap is because they buy components in bulk, and they subsidize them in hopes of future software sales, thats why its usually a closed system. They do whats called loss leading.

Its not just because of older specs. Because even though consoles have older or mid range specs at the time of release, you still cant buy the same specced PC for the same price.

Many tried finding PCs with similar specs as the PS5 Pro when that launched and the cheapest was around $1000-$1200, while the PS5 Pro went for $699.

If the PS6 costs $799, i am a 100% certain that you won’t be able to build a PC for the same price. You know why? Because that would totally destroy Sony’s business model and make their product obsolete. No, PC will always be more expensive at the launch of a console. When that stops being true, it will probably be the end of consoles anyway, as one of their main reason for existince is their subsidized pricing

Personally i thought they’d extend it to end of 2028, and i would have preffered that. But hearing all this rumours of next gen Xbox i’m sure Playstation wouldnt want a repeat of x360 era where they released a year later.

I agree with the first post saying we don’t need yearly updates of phone and all types of electronics, but people like to have it.

And also saying it’ll be better to switch to PC if consoles get more expensive isn’t really accounting for the fact that same specced PC’s will always stay more expensive relative to consoles 👀

@MFTWrecks

”Consider" and "focus on" are two different things, though.

But there's obviously a wink wink nudge nudge "understanding" that if you're not considering cross-media potential, you're likely doomed these days.

Hate to be so pedantic, but now you’re using the word consider.

understanding how a new concept can turn into an iconic franchise for PlayStation that can then again become a franchise for people beyond gaming

Again, what i understand from that quote is just that they’re trying to understand how to turn concepts in to iconic franchises and those iconic franchises can then become franchises beyond gaming.

We already see that push beyong gaming through Playstation Productions like Twisted Metal and TLoU tv show, Uncharted, Gran Turismo, Until Dawn movies and the upcoming Helldivers movie, God of War tv show, Ghost of Thushima anime etc.

It’s something many other studios and publishers did as well, almost every publisher looked at which IP they can make a franchise of and expand beyond gaming like Devil May Cry anime, Witcher tv show, Borderlands movie, Minecraft movie, Halo tv show, Mario movie, Mortal Kombat movies, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Angry Bird, Street Fighter, Warcraft etc.

I’m aware that some of those were already established gaming franchises, but they still expanded it beyond gaming, which is something Sony wants to do as well to reach greater audiences.

And i’m very sure other studios and publishers are considering cross media potential when brainstorming new IP as well, and personally i don't think that necessarily has to be a bad thing. It could be though, i agree with you there

@RBMango This is going to be a brief response after such a well thoughout response, because i pretty much agree with everything you said. For the record, i also think their approach to live service was horrible. I also think their approach to Helldivers 2 and Marvel Tokon is more sustainable and more in line of what i expect and would like to see more of from Sony

@MFTWrecks

"Consider" and "focus on" are two different things, though. And they seem to want to REQUIRE most properties be cross-media capable. That just puts a ton of undue pressure on their developers.

I completely agree with you on that. But lets look at the quote Push Square highlighted:

“We take a very intentional approach to IP creation […] understanding how a new concept can turn into an iconic franchise for PlayStation that can then again become a franchise for people beyond gaming.”

It doesnt actually say that theres a requirement though, they’re just looking at understanding how new concept can be developed in to iconic franchises and reach audiences outside of gaming.

There also seems to be a part missing, where two different sentences seem to be placed after another. So we’re missing a bit of context, it seems. Sometimes these quotes are taken way out of context.

But hey, if there is such a requirement, yeah that would be pretty stupid

@TrollOfWar LOL! Sony’s diversification strategy is getting out of hand.

Wait you dont know about their service where you can hire someone to dress up as your favourite character and…. Never mind, i’d better stop before this joke gets flagged 😆

@MFTWrecks I do agree that typically you’d want a games success to organically grow to other media forms. And not every IP can be designed to be iconic from the get go. But i don’t think its that unrrasonable to consider cross media potential during the IP creation process