@NEStalgia Regarding my point that they have their own platform. I understand they're a publisher on Steam. I just meant, because they have their own platform. They might have more incentive than other publishers to create a more seemless transition between PC and their own platform. That may be a reasoning of theirs. Just wanted to clarify my argument
Well, you make fair points, im not going to rebutall them. I will however, maybe dissapointingly, stick my feet in the ground and buckle down on my views. Althought you have convinced me a bit, i must say. I actually see the reasoning now. I will still say, i think most PC gamers dont even know their own reasoning and are overreacting a bit. End of the day, i together with all Playstation users have a PSN account. And while i acknowledge it may be a hassle for PC gamers, i would just say do it or dont, dont whine about it.
The whole fight against data collection i fully understand and would back up, however i would choose different enemies.
@NEStalgia Well i still dont see the comparison. Sony has to fix the games. Walmart may have to handle problems with the book(i errouneously thought u were talking about paper, must have watched too much of the office lately) if theres anything wrong with it.
However patches, fixes and updates wouldnt be done by Steam, but by Sony. So it doesnt really compare in the same way.
Regarding your bigger issues on data. I fully agree! However why Sony? Sony hardly seems like the big fish in the discussion of data collection. They're probably not even in the top 10. If you really want to target a company. Think Google, Microsoft etc.
Also, if you want anything done about it, not only targeting companies, but politicians. Government should legislate better privacy laws. I think we have better privacy laws in the EU than they have in the US. Thats why platform holders have to go through more loops and be more transparent about users' data than they do in the US. Not very knowledgeable about this though, so might be wrong here
@NEStalgia You have a point! But i think its hard to compare Sony to other publishers, first off they are not only publishers, they're platform holders. Also, they are the biggest publisher in the world(for the moment).
They have a large ecosystem that cant be compared to Bamco. To ensure things like crossplay and cross saves, creating a smooth transition and consistency between console and PC platforms might require sacrifice that other publishers dont care to do.
Sony might also feel that the IP are of high value and that they want to protects their IP more with digital rights managements. Some of these games have big budgets behind them. Im only speculating ofcourse, but i can imagine.
They also have their own ecosystem of trophies and the like, which other publishers maybe not have.
It might also be a cost thing for other publishers. Meaning that if they could do it, they might have done it as well.
And im assuming the biggest reason is piracy. It is ofcourse a big problem in the PC gaming world that games are pirated. High profile games, such as Playstation games are especially gonna be targeted for piracy. This seems to be a way to try to mitigate that, so that people atleast have to sign in to PSN. That way illegal pirated versions cant be used.
I mean you might not agree with it, but from a business standpoint you could probably see the logic in some of these reasonings
@NEStalgia Yes, but in the example you made. The company who creates the paper isnt responsible for fixing the paper, or creating a better experience after you bought the paper from Walmart.
Since Sony is responsible for their games getting patches, updates and fixes. It is in their interest and maybe in the users interest as well, for them to be able to have some insight in certain things after you have bought it from Steam.
I get what your point was though, however the example didnt really click with me.
Also there many settings, that you can turn off in your PSN account. Sony still has to operate within privacy laws. They have to clarify which data is used and what its used for. And you can opt out of certain things if you so choose.
@Ralizah I think most people wether they're PS users or not, just find it a bit of a silly overreaction to be honest. They dont really care if PC gamers do or dont sign up for PSN. Some might think that giving a critically acclaimed game, a GOTY contender, a userscore of 1 out of 10 is a bit dramatic.
Again ure asking me why it bothers me. It doesnt. PC gamers are bothered, and im very interested in why? So far ive heard, data, hassle and your argument is extra layer of DRM. Considering every publishers asks you to do so, is it safe to place your argument under the tab 'hassle' as well?
Literally everything i use needs me to sign up for it. Whether thats an app or a service. So if publishers do this in order to track gaming data and provide extra service. Then thats really not a big issue with me. If data is such a big concern, there are bigger fish to fry. And with 123million or so PSN users im guessing lots of people have no issue with signing up for it.
If PC users find it such a hassle. I'd recommend them to just not buy the game. Now if i was a corporate shill, i would suggest people buy the game. However, personally, i really couldnt care less
Btw, this may come as a surprise to you. But i also do not care that they have circumvented the PSN login with a mod. Trust me, us "fanboys" care a lot less about this than you PC guys think. Most just think u're overreacting
Are you serious? It doesnt bother me. PC users are the ones bothered. So much so that there are multiple sites making articles about it. Even this site, so yeah. I think u got it backwards.
I have given arguments in favour of why i think a publisher might do this in a previous post. If u want u can read it, not gonna repeat everything here again.
A possible explanation might be that we as PS users have all needed to make a PSN account to play Playstation games at some point. Was hardly any trouble for most, so i think most dont see what the big deal is. And that has nothing to do with licking Sonys boots, as you so eloquently keep describing
@Ralizah I dont think PS users are whining. We have a PSN account, i think most dont really think creating one was such a big deal. PC users are the ones whining about it.
I have no problem with PC gamers not wanting to sign up for a PSN account. I honestly couldnt care less. They do, cause a lot are commenting here showing their discontent. I am just sharing my opinion on the matter.
I have given arguments as to why i think its not such a big deal. That is just my opinion. Im not a corporate shill. When you discuss something, you give arguments. Thats what im doing, but im always open to hear other peoples opinion. Thats how a discussion works.
However, if you dont have any arguments. People usually resort to namecalling
I wonder why people come to a PS centric website to complain about PSN data collection. We're probably not the right crowd to complain to. Dont they realize most people here probably have a PSN account. Although unfortunate, data collecting happens everywhere you make an account. Its not a Sony thing. PC gamers coming here to "enlighten" us about data collection is so pointless. If you care that much, probably a good idea to delete all your email accounts, microsoft os, google, apple, valve or whatever else service you use.
End of the day, its fairly stated in the terms and policies what data is being used and what for. Like every other company has to do by the way. If you dont want it, then dont do it. But dont come here and lecture PS users about data collection as if its just a Sony thing.
And if its not about that, but just that you find it a hassle to take 2 mins to fill something out. Which means you will not have to do it for any other future releases. Well then, i dont know what to tell ya. Probably just dont buy the game then
@Psofo Why not ignore the "fanboys" and react by giving ur own arguments to the people who are making fair arguments. Ironic how some of you comment here without giving any arguments, just to say people are blind fanboys. Making you seem like the fanboys yourselves.
@naruball I hear you man, good to see a voice of reason
@Rhaoulos @LifeGirl Funny how you say people are fanboys or corporate shills, when i see a lot of people here giving fair arguments to their points. You two however seem to just be here to call people names
Here are some additional reasons for why a PSN might be useful (probably with overlap cause i didnt read all the comments):
Cross platform carryover . What if you do decide to buy in to the Playstation ecosystem as a PC gamer. Well then all the PS games that you played carry over their game data and their achievements like trophies. Some people might like that.
Linking to an account can make it easier for publishers to track data in real time, like game performance, bugs and crashes. Which they can use to create a better experience with fewer bugs. (This is btw probably the most obvious reason data is being used. They really dont care that much about ur personal information otherwise. And as some have pointed out, you can just fake it apparently. Just put in a different date of birth and name if you prefer.)
Maybe it can help with an extra layer of security against piracy, which is ofcourse a big problem in the PC world.
Data collection might benefit future game development. All publishers do this to see how people play the game. What they seem to striggle with. Which sections they may enjoy. Information that can be used to enhance sequels or other games in development.
What about if you get another PC. All achievements and game data is lost? Arguably a minor point for some, but some people might care if theyve completed all the single player games from Playstation and have lots of progess in MP games like Helldivers 2 and they lost their progress because of a new PC. Or maybe because they had to uninstall some games on their PC, or had hardware issues.
Also see a lot of people saying they understand it if it was for multiplayer. Well this account can be used for all past and future multiplayer games from Playstation. Its not like you will have to make it again for every other game. And to add to that. If its multiplayer, you dont care about your data then?
This site is naturally going to be majority console players. Who probably have no affinity with PC gaming. So it might be that some dont really see this as a big issue, seeing as most of us probably have a PSN account. That doesnt mean were corporate shills. I would critizice Sony for things i see are stupid or wrong. But in this case, i have to agree that i dont really see the big problem. I can understand people are wary about their data. But if thats the problem. Thats not really a Sony thing, cause every company and even every website collects your data.
Also like to point out, whatever side you seem to be on. Please give arguments, dont just call people names.
Damn! I just cant believe this game cost that much, it really doesnt show. Come to think of it, they probably already created a lot of the weekly cgi scenes. Which probably had a fair bit amount of motion capture in it. Still think it could've done better if they just said from the start what type of game it was, not shroud it in mystery and make it seem like it had some kind of singleplayer narrative or cool co op multiplayer.
Sony should really stop it with the silence and playing cool and just come out with a banging showcase.
@LifeGirl Seems to me that what u explained "the agenda" was, is considered "woke" by many. But hey i dont even know what woke really is. Everybody seems to define it differently.
@LifeGirl This makes no sense to me. Is this a joke? Anti traditional beauty standards? Thats the "woke" part? They didnt include beefcakes in it. Thats a big Lol for me, but hey to each its own
@2here2there Funny, i'm probably one of very few. Im not saying they're stellar, far from it. But i have no big problems with the character designs. Its been a while, and ive only played a bit of the beta. But i dont really remember a character which i disliked.
Except for the generic soldier with the assault rifle and the red Drax knockoff with the weirdly shaped head.
I must say though, i dont really care about the characters with these games. Its team deatchmatch. Closest ive played to this was CoD in the original Modern Warfare era. Didnt care what my character looked like then either
Edit: Im going to add something very controversial possibly. I just looked up the character roster of Overwatch on google images for the first time. And i think i like the Concord design better, LoL
[Pre-emptively opens umbrella for incoming sh*tstorm]
@PuppetMaster I appreciate the points given. I think @NEStalgia made a good point though. Im really not familiar with hero shooters, so i guess i really didnt compare it with any of those games. I still think the hate is disproportional though, i played the beta. Its a solid game. Again, lots of titles a lot worse have come out the past few years.
I must say though, having never played Overwatch and Apex legends, but obviously seen it around since you come across it everywhere. If character design is supposed to be so good or important in hero shooters, well colour me dumbfounded. All those free to play games including fortnite etc. have all the same cartoony unmemorable characters ever. Maybe im too old, i dunno, not gen Z over here
@OthmaneAD I hear many people saying they wanted the Factions multiplayer that was cancelled. Also hear a lot of people telling Sony that if they wanna do multiplayer they should revive IPs like Killzone.
Look i get what ure saying. But you have to realize there are many people that would like to have multiplayer on PS. Having only single player would be very boring, atleast in my opinion.
People just didnt want Concord, and hey thats fine. Again, im not particulary a fan of it either. But i just find the amount of hate it gets so weird and disproportional. Thats all
@Fishmasterflex96 I agree. It just interests me from a sociologic standpoint where all the hate comes from. Its seems like a solid game, nothing special or anything. But it has become the most hated on game on the internet it seems. And frankly, i dont really get why. But hey, thats just me
@OthmaneAD You say we. But ive also heard many people ask Sony to come up with new IPs. Also heard people asking for something else than only single player narrative games because they were getting tired of sad dad walking sims
@nessisonett What do you mean? Am i missing something? What does politics have to do with it? Is it because of the pronouns? Are you telling me thats really the biggest reason a solid game got hated on this much? Ive never seen a game hated on this much. Because of pronouns?
Im not playing stupid btw, im not from the US. I know "woke" is very big there. But if its not about the pronouns. What is so woke about the game? And if it is just about the pronouns, then wow. Harsh crowd
From someone who has never played a hero shooter before, i played the beta and i dont really understand whats so wrong with the game? Played good, was polished, graphics seemed good, satisfying gunplay. Was it really all down to character design? Because that seems highly subjective, i didnt really have any big problems with the character design really. To be honest, with these types of games, i really dont care that much about character design. I mean, its rounds of team deathmatch, who cares about the characters? I guess a lot of people, but this much... i dont know, it all seemed a bit out of proportion.
My view on it, people dogpiled on it. It got bad publicity, and people who havent played it or havent even seen it just layed it on it with negativity. Thereby creating a whole air of negativity around it. The amount of hate it got was totally disproportional. I mean remember Gollum? Now thats a bad game. This must be the most polished and solid "bad" game in history. Cause there are some real sh*tgames out there. Remember the last of us clone on switch, or the god of war clone on xbox? Those were sh*tgames
Lots of people also commenting about people hating the "wokeness" of it all. What exactly in it do they dislike? If someone would care to explain. Is it the variety of ethnicities? Or that they listed the pronouns?
Also, a point about the game costing $40. The whole purpose was that the game wouldnt have any battle passes and everything would be added for free. Isnt that what everyone wanted? Like i saw people complaining all the time about these free to play games ruining the industry. Now someone tries it this way and they get sh*t on. I guess people want free games full of paid battle passes and microtransactions then, right? Dont complain if thats going to be the future then
Ps. I dont particulary care for the game, but i do find if very weird how things transpired and this became probably the most hated on and the worst launch of any game ever. Just dont get it, its a solid game. And if it really comes down to something subjective as so called "woke character design" than that to me is very worrying
@tangyzesty I dont get what ure saying. The PS5 Pro is meant to play those games better. The upgrade isnt necessary, its for people who want to play with better settings and visuals. Like all PC games can be played on a RTX2070, but you can also play it on a RTX4070. Is it necessary? No ofcourse not, itll just give u better visuals and fps. None of it is necessary, its just an extra option.
Also, you do realize there are like 4 more years of games coming out before next gen hits. Maybe its also meant for those games?
I dont think Sony forgot how to make cheap consoles. They just dont target the same market as Nintendo does. Sony wants to give you triple AAA gaming with reasonably high specs but with the ease of use of a console. Nintendo caters to a different demographic which doesnt really care for high end graphics. Thats why they created the Pro, which can give you reasonably high settings for a console price, meaning a price that u cant get on PC if you build it yourself.
Im just gonna go with what u said about the servers things, cause im not too knowledgeable on that subject. All i can say is, Valve probably makes enough money with the 30% cut, that they get to run and maintain it, thats all. If they didnt they would have to find other ways to pay for it as well.
Also, Sony makes cheap consoles as well. The PS5 digital released for $399 if im not mistaken. In contrast to the series S, since you mentioned it, which cost $299 at release. Look at the difference in price and the difference in specs and be honest. Does Playstation sell cheap consoles? Yes, just not the Pro, because its not subsidized as explained earlier
@NEStalgia These are complex topics and the replies are getting longer and longer. I appreciate it though. Heres my rebutall if you will.
You're right about Valve being a privately owned company. Sony and Xbox arent, but yeah, not gonna be able to change anything there. Sony can not go back to being a private company.
Sony started the subsidized model because creating a console that was profitable and still cheap was getting harder to do. Saying Nintendo and Sega did it means nothing. It just means it was possible at that time with those certain economic conditions, things changed after that. They started selling consoles with a loss, almost every console manufacturer did.
Also, didnt Xbox start asking people to pay for online with Xbox Live? It certainly wasnt Playstation
Regarding Valve, they have a whole other business model in that they can seemingly get enough profit from their 30% cut to run and maintain their online network. The PC market is just a far larger pool with many more paying costumers than the console arena. If they didnt get enough out of the cuts that theyre getting, they would have to ask for payment for online as well. Because again running and maintaining it isnt free, not even for Valve.
Also, im no expert, but arent servers on Steam usually run by developers themselves? Correct me if im wrong, but that would definitely take the financial strain off Valve, which could explain a lot of why they dont need to charge for online.
Also, PS plus basic is $80/year, around $7 a month. But it doesnt only include online gaming, it also gives 36 games a year, with other additional benefits like discounts on dlc and such. People think its only about online gaming
I dont know all the ins and outs but comparing it to Valve with a whole other business operation is very hard to do.
So to conclude, i dont think the 30% cut is so unreasonable. I dont think them wanting to sell the PS5 Pro with a profit margin instead of subsidizing it and selling it with a loss is so unreasonable, because its not a mass seller. That would be a wrong strategy that will lose them money. You only subsidize consoles that sell like a 100million in lifetime sales, cause then you can guarantee that you will have a large enough paying playerbase to offset the loss you made by selling a console at a loss. This is not the case for the PS5 Pro which will maybe only sell around 10-12 million
@NEStalgia Hehe i know they dont lose $300 on each console. It was more meant as a thought exercise for people to realize the price isnt that extortionate, cause you cant build that for the same price. Im not expecting they subsidize all their products if it doesnt make sense. This isnt gonna sell in large volumes so that strategy isnt gonna work well. But are you saying you find it unreasonable that they sell a product with a profit margin? Or do you just think the profit margins are too large for this console?
Regarding your comments on PSN costs and their 30% cut on games selling through their platform.
Im confused, do you find it unreasonable that they get a cut from games sold on their platform? That happens on every platform including steam.
And also, the whole paying for online. Isnt that how they maintain PSN? If PSN was maintained by extra and premium alone, whole of Playstation Network will probably need to be shutdown. I mean, running and maintaining PSN probably costs a lot of money. Everybody seems to be wanting everything for free these days.
Again im no expert in the financials, im just guessing its not cheap to maintain. I have no idea how steam does it
@ZeroSum You said u understood that production costs were increasing, because of inflation, therefore games were more expensive to make. Then u proceeded to say that studio heads increase prices to cushion their company. Afterwards u said your own employer didnt cushion u from inflation. U might not have said my exact words, but it sure seemed as if you implied what i said in my post. But i may have inferred wrong, in that case i take it back
Just out of curiousity, if you wanna tell me, if you were a business owner? If cost of production rose, would you cushion your company by increasing prices? Or cushion all your employees as you said you would have wanted your employer to do?
@ZeroSum Wait, are u saying if you were a business owner and costs of production rose. You would not increase the price of your product? But rather make sure all of your employees are cushioned against inflation?
Thats noble and all, but really doesnt make business sense. You would lose money on your products because of rising production costs and you would increase employee salaries, losing even more money. How would you break even? Or better yet, make profit to continue ur business
@RubyCarbuncle Lots of armchair CEOs around, thats why u have so many opinions, but most dont really have experience with running billion dollar companies.
Maybe people should start building their PS5 Pro equivalent PCs for $1000 and sell them for $700. See how much profit they can make, seeing as they think $700 is an extortionate amount of money for it.
@RubyCarbuncle I just find it funny that people get so upset about console prices rising. Compared to other products. Like everything has risen these last years and decades, how could inflation not be an argument? Im not saying im happy with it.
But damn have you seen smartphone prices lately? Iphone pro max going for $1600. How about gpu cards, top Nvidia cards used to be what $1000 10 years ago, its now $1600. Houses? Seen those prices lately? I bet you guys seen your grocery prices going up? How much do you think dev salaries cost nowadays? Im guessing that has gone up as well.
Prices of everything have gone up through the years, in some markets, like smartphones it goes up incrementally every year. But somehow in the console space nothing is supposed to go up or else everyone gets in a frenzy. I can honestly say, that i thought console prices would have risen a while ago, we were just lucky they kept subsidizing it. Seeing how much the components cost in these consoles if you make it yourself, its a fair price.
Again, not saying im happy with the price from a consumer standpoint. But the outrage, i really dont understand, but hey thats just me
@NEStalgia Well you're right, prices are indeed lowering very slowly nowadays. But that only reinforces my thoughts that a 2026 release of the next Xbox isnt a good idea. Even if they go with Nvidia, they would probably be deep in development by now, they must have chosen their GPU already if it launches in 2 years? I mean, the RTX4090 costs like $1600. Can you imagine that thats the card thats going to be in the next Xbox? As of the now, i really cant. To be truly next gen, i would advise Xbox to wait atleast another year till 2027
@NEStalgia Also, if Xbox releases a new console in 2026, i dont think the difference in specs compared to the Pro would be all that mindblowing. Severely dampening the true next gen claims from Xbox. I mean what could they achieve by then? An equivalent of a rtx4090? If thats even possible? It would be amazing, but considering the PS5 Pro is around 4070 level, than that isnt really the big leap people would be expecting i think.
But yeah strategically speaking, it might be the better move for Xbox. Instead of taking Sony head on again with a simultaneous next gen release in 2028. Still think 2026 is too early, maybe 2027 would be better. They would still have a one year headstart. And have a much larger increase in tech available to them. Will be very interesting to see what these companies will do.
@NEStalgia Well even if the jump of architecture slows down. If the rtx5090 releases next year in 2025, it must have atleast come down in price 3 years later. For an equivalent, or maybe a bit under, to be used in the PS6. It might not tho, but one can hope hehe
@NEStalgia According to rumours Xbox is gonna come with a console in 2 years. Sony i hope, will wait till end of 2028.
They couldnt change too much for the Pro, cause they have to use the same architecture for compatibility issues.
End of 2028, AMD Zen 6 with a RTX5090 equivalent card -which will probably be around midrange by end of 2028- will be a significant step up from the Pro. Coupled with a DLSS4+ equivalent (PSSR 3.0)
I dont know man, it might be. I just cant see it happening right now, but hope to be surprised. If i had to guess it will be around $399. At its cheapest $349
Edit: But hey i was way off with the Pro, so what do i know
@simondud1 You say those are the best looking next gen games, but you forgot a couple. I'll help you out:
Demon souls, Spiderman miles morales, Spiderman 2, Resident evil village, Returnal, Ratchet and clank rift apart, Horizon forbidden west, Gran turismo 7, God of war Ragnarok, Callisto protocol, Final fantasy 16, Robocop rogue city, Resident evil 4, Alan wake 2, Avatar frontiers of pandora, Black myth: wukong
Dont worry, lots of people seem to keep forgetting there are lots of good looking games this gen. Or they just choose to not acknowledge them
Comments 375
Re: Poll: What Did You Think of Sony's State of Play for September 2024?
Ghost of Yotei trailer was a thing of beauty!
Re: Poll: What Did You Think of Sony's State of Play for September 2024?
Pretty good overall!
Pleasant surprise, much better than expected!
And damn....
GHOST!
Was fun hanging out with you guys in the chat as well
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
@NEStalgia Regarding my point that they have their own platform. I understand they're a publisher on Steam. I just meant, because they have their own platform. They might have more incentive than other publishers to create a more seemless transition between PC and their own platform. That may be a reasoning of theirs. Just wanted to clarify my argument
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
Well, you make fair points, im not going to rebutall them. I will however, maybe dissapointingly, stick my feet in the ground and buckle down on my views. Althought you have convinced me a bit, i must say. I actually see the reasoning now. I will still say, i think most PC gamers dont even know their own reasoning and are overreacting a bit. End of the day, i together with all Playstation users have a PSN account. And while i acknowledge it may be a hassle for PC gamers, i would just say do it or dont, dont whine about it.
The whole fight against data collection i fully understand and would back up, however i would choose different enemies.
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
@NEStalgia Well i still dont see the comparison. Sony has to fix the games. Walmart may have to handle problems with the book(i errouneously thought u were talking about paper, must have watched too much of the office lately) if theres anything wrong with it.
However patches, fixes and updates wouldnt be done by Steam, but by Sony. So it doesnt really compare in the same way.
Regarding your bigger issues on data. I fully agree! However why Sony? Sony hardly seems like the big fish in the discussion of data collection. They're probably not even in the top 10. If you really want to target a company. Think Google, Microsoft etc.
Also, if you want anything done about it, not only targeting companies, but politicians. Government should legislate better privacy laws. I think we have better privacy laws in the EU than they have in the US. Thats why platform holders have to go through more loops and be more transparent about users' data than they do in the US. Not very knowledgeable about this though, so might be wrong here
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
@NEStalgia You have a point! But i think its hard to compare Sony to other publishers, first off they are not only publishers, they're platform holders. Also, they are the biggest publisher in the world(for the moment).
They have a large ecosystem that cant be compared to Bamco. To ensure things like crossplay and cross saves, creating a smooth transition and consistency between console and PC platforms might require sacrifice that other publishers dont care to do.
Sony might also feel that the IP are of high value and that they want to protects their IP more with digital rights managements. Some of these games have big budgets behind them. Im only speculating ofcourse, but i can imagine.
They also have their own ecosystem of trophies and the like, which other publishers maybe not have.
It might also be a cost thing for other publishers. Meaning that if they could do it, they might have done it as well.
And im assuming the biggest reason is piracy. It is ofcourse a big problem in the PC gaming world that games are pirated. High profile games, such as Playstation games are especially gonna be targeted for piracy. This seems to be a way to try to mitigate that, so that people atleast have to sign in to PSN. That way illegal pirated versions cant be used.
I mean you might not agree with it, but from a business standpoint you could probably see the logic in some of these reasonings
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
@NEStalgia Yes, but in the example you made. The company who creates the paper isnt responsible for fixing the paper, or creating a better experience after you bought the paper from Walmart.
Since Sony is responsible for their games getting patches, updates and fixes. It is in their interest and maybe in the users interest as well, for them to be able to have some insight in certain things after you have bought it from Steam.
I get what your point was though, however the example didnt really click with me.
Also there many settings, that you can turn off in your PSN account. Sony still has to operate within privacy laws. They have to clarify which data is used and what its used for. And you can opt out of certain things if you so choose.
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
@Ralizah I think most people wether they're PS users or not, just find it a bit of a silly overreaction to be honest. They dont really care if PC gamers do or dont sign up for PSN. Some might think that giving a critically acclaimed game, a GOTY contender, a userscore of 1 out of 10 is a bit dramatic.
Again ure asking me why it bothers me. It doesnt. PC gamers are bothered, and im very interested in why? So far ive heard, data, hassle and your argument is extra layer of DRM. Considering every publishers asks you to do so, is it safe to place your argument under the tab 'hassle' as well?
Literally everything i use needs me to sign up for it. Whether thats an app or a service. So if publishers do this in order to track gaming data and provide extra service. Then thats really not a big issue with me. If data is such a big concern, there are bigger fish to fry. And with 123million or so PSN users im guessing lots of people have no issue with signing up for it.
If PC users find it such a hassle. I'd recommend them to just not buy the game. Now if i was a corporate shill, i would suggest people buy the game. However, personally, i really couldnt care less
Btw, this may come as a surprise to you. But i also do not care that they have circumvented the PSN login with a mod. Trust me, us "fanboys" care a lot less about this than you PC guys think. Most just think u're overreacting
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
Are you serious? It doesnt bother me. PC users are the ones bothered. So much so that there are multiple sites making articles about it. Even this site, so yeah. I think u got it backwards.
I have given arguments in favour of why i think a publisher might do this in a previous post. If u want u can read it, not gonna repeat everything here again.
A possible explanation might be that we as PS users have all needed to make a PSN account to play Playstation games at some point. Was hardly any trouble for most, so i think most dont see what the big deal is. And that has nothing to do with licking Sonys boots, as you so eloquently keep describing
Re: Sony Appears to Leak Many Games from State of Play
If this is it, then thats a bigass MEH for me. Sony needs to step up and come with a banging showcase. This is just lame
Lets hope they surprise us with the 5 remaining games
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
@Ralizah I dont think PS users are whining. We have a PSN account, i think most dont really think creating one was such a big deal. PC users are the ones whining about it.
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
@Ralizah Deflection, and still no arguments.
I have no problem with PC gamers not wanting to sign up for a PSN account. I honestly couldnt care less. They do, cause a lot are commenting here showing their discontent. I am just sharing my opinion on the matter.
I have given arguments as to why i think its not such a big deal. That is just my opinion. Im not a corporate shill. When you discuss something, you give arguments. Thats what im doing, but im always open to hear other peoples opinion. Thats how a discussion works.
However, if you dont have any arguments. People usually resort to namecalling
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
@Ralizah And yet another post, that doesnt give arguments. But just came here to comment about people here being corporate shills.
How about adressing some of the points given?
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
I wonder why people come to a PS centric website to complain about PSN data collection. We're probably not the right crowd to complain to. Dont they realize most people here probably have a PSN account. Although unfortunate, data collecting happens everywhere you make an account. Its not a Sony thing. PC gamers coming here to "enlighten" us about data collection is so pointless. If you care that much, probably a good idea to delete all your email accounts, microsoft os, google, apple, valve or whatever else service you use.
End of the day, its fairly stated in the terms and policies what data is being used and what for. Like every other company has to do by the way. If you dont want it, then dont do it. But dont come here and lecture PS users about data collection as if its just a Sony thing.
And if its not about that, but just that you find it a hassle to take 2 mins to fill something out. Which means you will not have to do it for any other future releases. Well then, i dont know what to tell ya. Probably just dont buy the game then
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
@Psofo Why not ignore the "fanboys" and react by giving ur own arguments to the people who are making fair arguments. Ironic how some of you comment here without giving any arguments, just to say people are blind fanboys. Making you seem like the fanboys yourselves.
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
@naruball I hear you man, good to see a voice of reason
@Rhaoulos @LifeGirl Funny how you say people are fanboys or corporate shills, when i see a lot of people here giving fair arguments to their points. You two however seem to just be here to call people names
Here are some additional reasons for why a PSN might be useful (probably with overlap cause i didnt read all the comments):
This site is naturally going to be majority console players. Who probably have no affinity with PC gaming. So it might be that some dont really see this as a big issue, seeing as most of us probably have a PSN account. That doesnt mean were corporate shills. I would critizice Sony for things i see are stupid or wrong. But in this case, i have to agree that i dont really see the big problem. I can understand people are wary about their data. But if thats the problem. Thats not really a Sony thing, cause every company and even every website collects your data.
Also like to point out, whatever side you seem to be on. Please give arguments, dont just call people names.
Re: State of Play Confirmed for Tomorrow, 20+ PS5, PSVR2 Games Included
Hm, always nice to have updates from Playstation. But its looking like this is not gonna be what i hope it will be. Or what it needs to be
Re: How To Pre-Order PlayStation 30th Anniversary Collection
Why go through all that effort when you can pay scalpers to buy it for you, and for the bargain price of 10k
Jokes aside, im not getting one day 1, am gonna wait a bit for a sale or something. Maybe next year.
Good luck to those who plan to buy day one, hope Sony got it figured out so you wont have any problems obtaining one.
Re: Retro PS2 TimeSplitters Titles Outperform PS5, PC Flop Concord in UK Charts
Lol
Facepalm
Re: Rumour: Concord Cost $400 Million, Sony Believed It Was the 'Future of PlayStation'
Damn!
I just cant believe this game cost that much, it really doesnt show.
Come to think of it, they probably already created a lot of the weekly cgi scenes. Which probably had a fair bit amount of motion capture in it.
Still think it could've done better if they just said from the start what type of game it was, not shroud it in mystery and make it seem like it had some kind of singleplayer narrative or cool co op multiplayer.
Sony should really stop it with the silence and playing cool and just come out with a banging showcase.
Re: Concord Dev Could Close After Director of PS5, PC Disaster Steps Down
@LifeGirl Seems to me that what u explained "the agenda" was, is considered "woke" by many. But hey i dont even know what woke really is. Everybody seems to define it differently.
Re: Concord Dev Could Close After Director of PS5, PC Disaster Steps Down
@LifeGirl This makes no sense to me. Is this a joke? Anti traditional beauty standards? Thats the "woke" part? They didnt include beefcakes in it. Thats a big Lol for me, but hey to each its own
Edit: Temu Drax was a bit of a beefcake
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
@2here2there Funny, i'm probably one of very few. Im not saying they're stellar, far from it. But i have no big problems with the character designs. Its been a while, and ive only played a bit of the beta. But i dont really remember a character which i disliked.
Except for the generic soldier with the assault rifle and the red Drax knockoff with the weirdly shaped head.
I must say though, i dont really care about the characters with these games. Its team deatchmatch. Closest ive played to this was CoD in the original Modern Warfare era. Didnt care what my character looked like then either
Edit: Im going to add something very controversial possibly. I just looked up the character roster of Overwatch on google images for the first time. And i think i like the Concord design better, LoL
[Pre-emptively opens umbrella for incoming sh*tstorm]
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
@Fishmasterflex96 Fair points, i agree with all of it!
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
@PuppetMaster I appreciate the points given. I think @NEStalgia made a good point though. Im really not familiar with hero shooters, so i guess i really didnt compare it with any of those games. I still think the hate is disproportional though, i played the beta. Its a solid game. Again, lots of titles a lot worse have come out the past few years.
I must say though, having never played Overwatch and Apex legends, but obviously seen it around since you come across it everywhere. If character design is supposed to be so good or important in hero shooters, well colour me dumbfounded. All those free to play games including fortnite etc. have all the same cartoony unmemorable characters ever. Maybe im too old, i dunno, not gen Z over here
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
@NEStalgia Honestly, thats a good point! I might just really not see the big deal, cause its not a world im familiar with
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
@OthmaneAD I hear many people saying they wanted the Factions multiplayer that was cancelled. Also hear a lot of people telling Sony that if they wanna do multiplayer they should revive IPs like Killzone.
Look i get what ure saying. But you have to realize there are many people that would like to have multiplayer on PS. Having only single player would be very boring, atleast in my opinion.
People just didnt want Concord, and hey thats fine. Again, im not particulary a fan of it either. But i just find the amount of hate it gets so weird and disproportional. Thats all
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
@Fishmasterflex96 I agree. It just interests me from a sociologic standpoint where all the hate comes from. Its seems like a solid game, nothing special or anything. But it has become the most hated on game on the internet it seems. And frankly, i dont really get why. But hey, thats just me
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
@tameshiyaku You think the game has gotten to be one of the, if not, the most hated game on the internet because its just generic?
Nah, people forget about generic games. The hate for this game is on a whole other level
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
@OthmaneAD You say we. But ive also heard many people ask Sony to come up with new IPs. Also heard people asking for something else than only single player narrative games because they were getting tired of sad dad walking sims
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
@nessisonett What do you mean? Am i missing something? What does politics have to do with it? Is it because of the pronouns? Are you telling me thats really the biggest reason a solid game got hated on this much? Ive never seen a game hated on this much. Because of pronouns?
Im not playing stupid btw, im not from the US. I know "woke" is very big there. But if its not about the pronouns. What is so woke about the game? And if it is just about the pronouns, then wow. Harsh crowd
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
From someone who has never played a hero shooter before, i played the beta and i dont really understand whats so wrong with the game? Played good, was polished, graphics seemed good, satisfying gunplay. Was it really all down to character design? Because that seems highly subjective, i didnt really have any big problems with the character design really. To be honest, with these types of games, i really dont care that much about character design. I mean, its rounds of team deathmatch, who cares about the characters? I guess a lot of people, but this much... i dont know, it all seemed a bit out of proportion.
My view on it, people dogpiled on it. It got bad publicity, and people who havent played it or havent even seen it just layed it on it with negativity. Thereby creating a whole air of negativity around it. The amount of hate it got was totally disproportional. I mean remember Gollum? Now thats a bad game. This must be the most polished and solid "bad" game in history. Cause there are some real sh*tgames out there. Remember the last of us clone on switch, or the god of war clone on xbox? Those were sh*tgames
Lots of people also commenting about people hating the "wokeness" of it all. What exactly in it do they dislike? If someone would care to explain. Is it the variety of ethnicities? Or that they listed the pronouns?
Also, a point about the game costing $40. The whole purpose was that the game wouldnt have any battle passes and everything would be added for free. Isnt that what everyone wanted? Like i saw people complaining all the time about these free to play games ruining the industry. Now someone tries it this way and they get sh*t on. I guess people want free games full of paid battle passes and microtransactions then, right? Dont complain if thats going to be the future then
Ps. I dont particulary care for the game, but i do find if very weird how things transpired and this became probably the most hated on and the worst launch of any game ever. Just dont get it, its a solid game. And if it really comes down to something subjective as so called "woke character design" than that to me is very worrying
Re: Rumour: Days Gone PS5 Remaster Speculation Starts to Spread
@RubyCarbuncle Would you be interested otherwise?
Re: Rumour: Days Gone PS5 Remaster Speculation Starts to Spread
@TomasVrboda Playstation had new IPs this year. Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade, or do 3rd party games not count? In that case, Concord
Re: Jaw-Dropping 30th Anniversary PS5 Pro Console and Accessories Will Bankrupt You
Damn, that does look very nice!
Re: Vince Zampella Defends PS5 Pro Price, Says 'It's Actually Not That Bad'
@tangyzesty I dont get what ure saying. The PS5 Pro is meant to play those games better. The upgrade isnt necessary, its for people who want to play with better settings and visuals. Like all PC games can be played on a RTX2070, but you can also play it on a RTX4070. Is it necessary? No ofcourse not, itll just give u better visuals and fps. None of it is necessary, its just an extra option.
Also, you do realize there are like 4 more years of games coming out before next gen hits. Maybe its also meant for those games?
Re: Vince Zampella Defends PS5 Pro Price, Says 'It's Actually Not That Bad'
I dont think Sony forgot how to make cheap consoles. They just dont target the same market as Nintendo does. Sony wants to give you triple AAA gaming with reasonably high specs but with the ease of use of a console. Nintendo caters to a different demographic which doesnt really care for high end graphics. Thats why they created the Pro, which can give you reasonably high settings for a console price, meaning a price that u cant get on PC if you build it yourself.
Im just gonna go with what u said about the servers things, cause im not too knowledgeable on that subject. All i can say is, Valve probably makes enough money with the 30% cut, that they get to run and maintain it, thats all. If they didnt they would have to find other ways to pay for it as well.
Also, Sony makes cheap consoles as well. The PS5 digital released for $399 if im not mistaken. In contrast to the series S, since you mentioned it, which cost $299 at release. Look at the difference in price and the difference in specs and be honest. Does Playstation sell cheap consoles? Yes, just not the Pro, because its not subsidized as explained earlier
Re: Vince Zampella Defends PS5 Pro Price, Says 'It's Actually Not That Bad'
@NEStalgia These are complex topics and the replies are getting longer and longer. I appreciate it though. Heres my rebutall if you will.
You're right about Valve being a privately owned company. Sony and Xbox arent, but yeah, not gonna be able to change anything there. Sony can not go back to being a private company.
Sony started the subsidized model because creating a console that was profitable and still cheap was getting harder to do. Saying Nintendo and Sega did it means nothing. It just means it was possible at that time with those certain economic conditions, things changed after that. They started selling consoles with a loss, almost every console manufacturer did.
Also, didnt Xbox start asking people to pay for online with Xbox Live? It certainly wasnt Playstation
Regarding Valve, they have a whole other business model in that they can seemingly get enough profit from their 30% cut to run and maintain their online network. The PC market is just a far larger pool with many more paying costumers than the console arena. If they didnt get enough out of the cuts that theyre getting, they would have to ask for payment for online as well. Because again running and maintaining it isnt free, not even for Valve.
Also, im no expert, but arent servers on Steam usually run by developers themselves? Correct me if im wrong, but that would definitely take the financial strain off Valve, which could explain a lot of why they dont need to charge for online.
Also, PS plus basic is $80/year, around $7 a month. But it doesnt only include online gaming, it also gives 36 games a year, with other additional benefits like discounts on dlc and such. People think its only about online gaming
I dont know all the ins and outs but comparing it to Valve with a whole other business operation is very hard to do.
So to conclude, i dont think the 30% cut is so unreasonable. I dont think them wanting to sell the PS5 Pro with a profit margin instead of subsidizing it and selling it with a loss is so unreasonable, because its not a mass seller. That would be a wrong strategy that will lose them money. You only subsidize consoles that sell like a 100million in lifetime sales, cause then you can guarantee that you will have a large enough paying playerbase to offset the loss you made by selling a console at a loss. This is not the case for the PS5 Pro which will maybe only sell around 10-12 million
Re: Vince Zampella Defends PS5 Pro Price, Says 'It's Actually Not That Bad'
@NEStalgia Hehe i know they dont lose $300 on each console. It was more meant as a thought exercise for people to realize the price isnt that extortionate, cause you cant build that for the same price. Im not expecting they subsidize all their products if it doesnt make sense. This isnt gonna sell in large volumes so that strategy isnt gonna work well. But are you saying you find it unreasonable that they sell a product with a profit margin? Or do you just think the profit margins are too large for this console?
Regarding your comments on PSN costs and their 30% cut on games selling through their platform.
Im confused, do you find it unreasonable that they get a cut from games sold on their platform? That happens on every platform including steam.
And also, the whole paying for online. Isnt that how they maintain PSN? If PSN was maintained by extra and premium alone, whole of Playstation Network will probably need to be shutdown. I mean, running and maintaining PSN probably costs a lot of money. Everybody seems to be wanting everything for free these days.
Again im no expert in the financials, im just guessing its not cheap to maintain. I have no idea how steam does it
Re: Vince Zampella Defends PS5 Pro Price, Says 'It's Actually Not That Bad'
@ZeroSum You said u understood that production costs were increasing, because of inflation, therefore games were more expensive to make. Then u proceeded to say that studio heads increase prices to cushion their company. Afterwards u said your own employer didnt cushion u from inflation. U might not have said my exact words, but it sure seemed as if you implied what i said in my post. But i may have inferred wrong, in that case i take it back
Just out of curiousity, if you wanna tell me, if you were a business owner? If cost of production rose, would you cushion your company by increasing prices? Or cushion all your employees as you said you would have wanted your employer to do?
Re: Vince Zampella Defends PS5 Pro Price, Says 'It's Actually Not That Bad'
@ZeroSum Wait, are u saying if you were a business owner and costs of production rose. You would not increase the price of your product? But rather make sure all of your employees are cushioned against inflation?
Thats noble and all, but really doesnt make business sense. You would lose money on your products because of rising production costs and you would increase employee salaries, losing even more money. How would you break even? Or better yet, make profit to continue ur business
Re: Vince Zampella Defends PS5 Pro Price, Says 'It's Actually Not That Bad'
@RubyCarbuncle Lots of armchair CEOs around, thats why u have so many opinions, but most dont really have experience with running billion dollar companies.
Maybe people should start building their PS5 Pro equivalent PCs for $1000 and sell them for $700. See how much profit they can make, seeing as they think $700 is an extortionate amount of money for it.
Re: Vince Zampella Defends PS5 Pro Price, Says 'It's Actually Not That Bad'
@RubyCarbuncle I just find it funny that people get so upset about console prices rising. Compared to other products. Like everything has risen these last years and decades, how could inflation not be an argument?
Im not saying im happy with it.
But damn have you seen smartphone prices lately? Iphone pro max going for $1600. How about gpu cards, top Nvidia cards used to be what $1000 10 years ago, its now $1600. Houses? Seen those prices lately? I bet you guys seen your grocery prices going up?
How much do you think dev salaries cost nowadays? Im guessing that has gone up as well.
Prices of everything have gone up through the years, in some markets, like smartphones it goes up incrementally every year. But somehow in the console space nothing is supposed to go up or else everyone gets in a frenzy.
I can honestly say, that i thought console prices would have risen a while ago, we were just lucky they kept subsidizing it. Seeing how much the components cost in these consoles if you make it yourself, its a fair price.
Again, not saying im happy with the price from a consumer standpoint. But the outrage, i really dont understand, but hey thats just me
Re: PS6 Is Already Deep in Development, Backwards Compatibility of High Importance
@NEStalgia Well you're right, prices are indeed lowering very slowly nowadays. But that only reinforces my thoughts that a 2026 release of the next Xbox isnt a good idea. Even if they go with Nvidia, they would probably be deep in development by now, they must have chosen their GPU already if it launches in 2 years? I mean, the RTX4090 costs like $1600. Can you imagine that thats the card thats going to be in the next Xbox? As of the now, i really cant. To be truly next gen, i would advise Xbox to wait atleast another year till 2027
Re: PS6 Is Already Deep in Development, Backwards Compatibility of High Importance
@NEStalgia Also, if Xbox releases a new console in 2026, i dont think the difference in specs compared to the Pro would be all that mindblowing. Severely dampening the true next gen claims from Xbox. I mean what could they achieve by then? An equivalent of a rtx4090? If thats even possible? It would be amazing, but considering the PS5 Pro is around 4070 level, than that isnt really the big leap people would be expecting i think.
But yeah strategically speaking, it might be the better move for Xbox. Instead of taking Sony head on again with a simultaneous next gen release in 2028. Still think 2026 is too early, maybe 2027 would be better. They would still have a one year headstart. And have a much larger increase in tech available to them. Will be very interesting to see what these companies will do.
Re: PS6 Is Already Deep in Development, Backwards Compatibility of High Importance
@NEStalgia Well even if the jump of architecture slows down. If the rtx5090 releases next year in 2025, it must have atleast come down in price 3 years later. For an equivalent, or maybe a bit under, to be used in the PS6. It might not tho, but one can hope hehe
Re: PS6 Is Already Deep in Development, Backwards Compatibility of High Importance
@NEStalgia According to rumours Xbox is gonna come with a console in 2 years. Sony i hope, will wait till end of 2028.
They couldnt change too much for the Pro, cause they have to use the same architecture for compatibility issues.
End of 2028, AMD Zen 6 with a RTX5090 equivalent card -which will probably be around midrange by end of 2028- will be a significant step up from the Pro. Coupled with a DLSS4+ equivalent (PSSR 3.0)
Re: PS6 Is Already Deep in Development, Backwards Compatibility of High Importance
I dont know man, it might be. I just cant see it happening right now, but hope to be surprised. If i had to guess it will be around $399. At its cheapest $349
Edit: But hey i was way off with the Pro, so what do i know
Re: PS6 Is Already Deep in Development, Backwards Compatibility of High Importance
@simondud1 You say those are the best looking next gen games, but you forgot a couple. I'll help you out:
Demon souls, Spiderman miles morales, Spiderman 2, Resident evil village, Returnal, Ratchet and clank rift apart, Horizon forbidden west, Gran turismo 7, God of war Ragnarok, Callisto protocol, Final fantasy 16, Robocop rogue city, Resident evil 4, Alan wake 2, Avatar frontiers of pandora, Black myth: wukong
Dont worry, lots of people seem to keep forgetting there are lots of good looking games this gen. Or they just choose to not acknowledge them
Re: PS6 Is Already Deep in Development, Backwards Compatibility of High Importance
@GamingFan4Lyf I just cant see the Switch 2 releasing for $299, but hey anything can happen