Art_Vandelay

I'm very excited to see how Polyphony will support the Pro, especially in VR.

The game already has a 1080p 120 fps VRR mode (flat), which suggests it's mostly GPU bound. So I'm hoping for a native 90 fps VR mode, which would be fantastic.

This game has fallen victim to the same problem as Concord: long development cycles. Both were designed inside a certain cultural context, but the culture is shifting as they come out.

@naruball That's absolutely not the reason why console prices aren't coming down. There are two factors at play here: firstly, the pandemic caused both a massive increase in demand for integrated circuits (ICs) and a total meltdown of the global economy.

While demand has receded somewhat, large language models training has kept it in a much higher water mark when compared to the last decade. And as for the global economy, the structural damage caused by covid (or by the response to it) was ultimately somewhat permanent (or very long term).

But the real reason is, funnily enough: physics. Transistor sizes have just got to a point where we're actually approaching the limits of the atom. Granted, we're not there yet, but the closer we get to it, the harder it becomes to shrink it further. And by "harder", I also mean "more expensive".

In other words: die shrinks (e.g. the SoC in the PS3 fat to the PS3 slim) used to make ICs cheaper, but now they get more expensive with each new node. That's the current reality, and there's no escaping from it. For now.

No matter how much you twist and turn it, this game is as DOA as DOA can be.

And the matter of fact is, it doesn't matter how well it plays. This game is the quintessential victim of long development cycles and trend chasing, as it looks horribly outdated even before it comes out.

Firstly, it relies on a totally saturated business model. And secondly, it falls victim to an ongoing cultural shift that makes it immediately unattractive to a now sizeable demographic. Without going into the merits of it, whether one likes it or not, that's just the reality of the situation.

DOA. I just hope Sony learns a lesson or two.

@NEStalgia "the average gamer does not buy more than a few games a year and not a ton during an entire generation. The total spend by a game pass subscriber is GREATER than the average player. That's an INCREASE in per customer sales dollars for average customers."

Bingo! That's exactly why the subscription model has hit a plateau. People eventually realize they're wasting money, so they leave. And that's especially true in the games industry. GP would never hit the necessary subscribers base to be profitable in its old form.

But anyway, we're running in circles at this point. The fact is that Microsoft is finally pivoting, thankfully. And I feel vindicated.

Quality discussion, btw. Even if I don't agree, you raise some thoughtful arguments.

@NEStalgia That’s not the way you do this kind of math. The sum of budgets for all games in production does not equal the overall cost of running the platform. There's so much more to it you're ignoring. Again, Laiden would know. Straus Zelnick would too. And they've warned about subscription models not working with games.

You're conflating another point Shaun made regarding budgets, which is related but different. Actually, the budgets issue only makes GP worse from a business perspective. Yes, costs need to come down across the board, but day one releases on GP won't become a good strategy even if they do.

Here's another data point: according to the Insomniac leak, Sony estimates a loss of around $90 million for putting Forbidden West on PS+, and that is a full year after release. Now look at Sony's own margins and tell me PlayStation would be profitable if first-party games were released day one on the service. You know, it's still profitable doing it (mostly) the old ways, even if the retail model itself needs some course correction as you rightly mentioned.

Again, you're doing napkin math and failing to see the reality, which we can only infer from gathering all these tidbits that offer some insight into the whole picture when combined. I insist: why would Microsoft intentionally hide profitability numbers from the Xbox division in their earnings reports? Sony doesn't…

And about ABK, here's the conundrum that Microsoft has put itself into, which actually explains all that recent pivoting: COD might just be the missing piece to fully realize the GP vision if you only look at subscriber's numbers. But to realize that potential, they had to increase the cost of operation to a level of unsustainability that is unacceptable even to the almighty Microsoft.

Look, the problem is not the subscription model per se. It's day one releases on those services. And Microsoft knows that, so they've begun backtracking.

PS: sorry if I sound a little blunt, but I'm trying to be objective. You know, George is getting upset! 😁

Here's a prediction that bears no wishful thinking whatsoever: Bloodborne remake will be announced at the PS5 Pro reveal event that's coming up. "Running at 4K60 by the power of the Pro".

@NEStalgia Sorry to disagree buddy, but you're way off the mark here. You say GP is profitable and, to prove your point, goes straight on to revenue. Just like Microsoft, but there's a reason they obfuscate the profitability numbers of the Xbox division: because they don't look good.

Sure, there might a profit there, because they own Minecraft and COD, and they do sell a la carte. But GP alone is utterly unprofitable when you consider the cost of maintaining all those studios. And the proof is in the pudding: they've just tacitly admitted that by making all those seismic changes.

But hey, don't listen to me. Listen to someone who has maximum visibility into how this kind of business operates: Shaun Laiden once said that, to be profitable, the GP subscribers base should be in hundreds of millions. 500 million was the number he threw, to be accurate.

And lastly, Phill Spencer has never said that GP was profitable. He actually used the word sustainable, which is totally different. It implies profitability in the long term, which would make sense if you looked at the leaked documents from the ABK court case. It just so happens that those numbers were way off as we now know.

I'm not really into this new title's aesthetic but damn, Synapse was the game that proved the power of eye tracking beyond DFR. Using telekinesis for the first time was one of those rare moments when technology genuinely feels like magic.

@NEStalgia Surely this failed strategy derives from the mismanagement you're referring to. So yes, Xbox leadership is the root of the issue, but that doesn't make the Game Pass model a non-issue. It's a spectacular failure, made more catastrophic by the fact that thousands of random internet users with one millionth of the data Phill Spencer has access to, have been sounding the alarm from the very beginning. The whole story is truly baffling and quite educational.

It's awesome that another PSVR2 game has made it into Premium, so I won't complain it's Job Simulator.

If they keep adding VR games monthly, they'll have me captive. PS+ is the perfect vessel for VR titles, since they're harder to assess without trying.

And the proof is I've just become addicted to Walkabout, a game I had never considered buying.

"proving Sony’s porting strategy is sound"

It proves this is a sound near-term tactic to increase revenue. But I'm still convinced it's a bad long-term strategy as it weakens the platform's appeal.

@Andee Sure, and I'm right there with you: single player from stem to stern. And I do feel like the old man yelling at clouds sometimes.

What I'm trying to convey though, is that relaxing our stance a little can be beneficial to our own selves. Especially in the case of GT7 as, some have pointed out, is "live service done right".

@Andee I second @Critonic. Are you really that worried about protecting your $70 investment? I get the sentiment, but it makes no sense when you think objectively.

There will be a much better iteration of Gran Turismo years before the GT7 servers go down. Then again, I get the retro/nostalgia kick people get from playing old games, but that really shouldn't stop you from enjoying one of the best titles on the PS5.

This might be very unrealistic, but the main feature I'd like to see in GT7 at this point is the complete replacement of the regular AI with Sophy.

@Vault_Mcfly Exactly. A PC version is an unnecessary distraction both for Polyphony and for PC gamers who have far superior options, right? Right?

@Andee The MTs are only an issue if you don't like racing. Which is another way of saying that it's a non-isue that's been widely overblown when the game came out. If you just boot up the game and play, you'll soon find yourself with plenty of money to buy whatever car you want.

As for the online requirement... is you ISP really that unreliable? What's your worry, specifically?

@DonkeyFantasy Dude... Do both. GT7 + PSVR2 + decent racing rig is the most magical combination I've experienced in gaming since I started back in the early 80s. And I'm not exaggerating in the slightest. Maybe find a way to try it?...

@thefourfoldroot1 Agreed. MR is in the same spot VR was back in 2014: a cool novelty that is years away from being great.

@Sanquine I guess Xbox users do not qualify into the "everyone" category. Which, to be fair, could actually sound quite prophetic in a few years. 😏

@Ergoshotz Except that Game Pass will probably implode somewhere along the way. Not saying that Microsoft will eventually kill it, but it will morph into a very different proposition compared to what it is today.

@__jamiie "Bespoke consoles don't have a bright future for anyone, including Sony. Next gen is the last."

That rings a bell... 🤔

I was actually surprised when he says that there's room for improvement for players that want to play From's games more organically. I always thought that those games were designed around 'water cooler' moments, which goes in line with Miyazaki's initial statement.

@Malaise Honestly, I'm not upset at all. PSVR2 has completely killed my interest for flat games, and I still have a backlog that could last for a lifetime.

Getting VR games on PS+ and PC compatibility are just the icing on the cake.

And btw, I'd be happy with GT7 alone. As a fan of the series from the very first iteration, GT7 VR is a dream come true.

The doom and gloom out there just seem to completely miss the point of this accessory. People need to understand that this is a niche product for ultra enthusiasts, and the fact that Sony would cater at all to the relatively few of us calls for celebration, not hate.

As a PSVR2 enthusiast, I'm disappointed but I get the decision. Sony clearly wants to make Astrobot its next mascot, and limiting the next game's audience to VR would just not cut it.

Regarding a Rescue Mission port, people seem to miss a key point. That game is designed around a feature that PSVR2 doesn't have: gamepad tracking.

Yes, they could compromise and either rely on the DualSense gyros or remake the whole thing to use the VR Sense controllers. But both of these options are half measures that don't seem to be up to Team Asobi's standards.

And btw, those same standards were the reason a hybrid was discarded as an option, as they alluded to.

At least one of those 10 million was solely because of PSVR2 support.

I'm really glad that Sony has finally started to put PSVR2 games on PS+. I was a little disappointed that they restricted it to Premium, but it's understandable. VR is for enthusiasts, and so is Premium. And the VR games also add to this tier's value, which has been a little iffy.

Kayak is the perfect Plus title, and it seems the VR game addition may become a regular thing. I was about to downgrade from Extra to Essential, but ended up going the opposite way and now they have me by the balls.

Yeah, the diversity is great and all, but the real reason Sony is tapping into those markets is simply because labor cost is way cheaper. Which is totally fine, but let's not pretend.

The PS5 APU's frame buffer is probably capable of pushing 8K, but the truth is that the feature never really caught on. So why bother implementing it on the firmware?

It's a simple market thing and a curiosity at best, but nothing to see here.

@EnragedGibbon I actually agree. It's great that Push Square is one of the few traditional vg media outlets that has consistently covered VR, but there are definitely a few standout titles that have been missed.

@NEStalgia Three wires: USB-A, DisplayPort and power.

The power provided by USB ports on PC vary widely between setups, and PSVR2 was never designed to work on that. So, having power coming from an outlet was the most reliable and compatible way to design this thing.

Funny how this adapter totally gives me PSVR1 breakout box vibes. Full circle, I guess.

This one seems to be following on the footsteps of Suicide Squad...

+1 this is easily the most exciting game from the show.

I've been playing Synapse over the last few days, and it clearly highlights how much of a difference there is between watching gameplay on a 2D screen and playing it in VR. I remember seeing it on a previous State of Play and thinking "this looks fine". But as soon as you do the Jedi thing in the game for the first time, it's like "holy fff***, this is AMAZING!".

Maybe my brain is already doing the translation, but I'm looking at this Behemoth trailer and actually thinking "wow", so...

@NEStalgia My exact thoughts about Polyphony. I'm not sure about what "evolving" means, and I kinda don't like the sound of it. Because the last term that would define that studio is "multi-genre".

But maybe that is just a generic/wildcard category, as GT has single player, multiplayer and even live service components.

This story and overall conversation around the topic just go to show how the number one thing missing on the internet discourse is nuance.

No, the gaming industry is not desperately struggling. And no, it's not living through its most prosperous years either.

The most common mistake people do in financial investments is making decisions based solely on historic data. And this article makes that exact mistake. Sure, the last paragraph sort of mitigates that error, but not sufficiently.

The truth is the future does look a little bleak, and the industry needs to course correct. And in fact, this is already underway, but we've only seen the early beginnings.

I'm hopeful that there will finally be a proper push for PSVR2:

• $100 off the headset.
• 4 games included in the Premium PS+ tier.
• PC adapter just approved by regulators in Korea.

Now, the icing on the cake would be the announcement that the new Astro game would be fully playable in VR. At this point it's fair to assume it will be a hybrid, but still...

I've been playing Synapse over the last few days and, man! When a VR game hits, it's something truly special. It's such a shame that Sony hasn't fully committed to the platform. But hey, maybe it was Jim Ryan's fault all along. It kinda feels like Sony has suddenly woken up to PSVR2. Better late than never?

@themightyant Well, we can already moan that it's just a State of Play and not a proper Showcase, as was previously rumored.

@LordAinsley The fact that I don't know if you're being sarcastic or careful when referring to the pandemic as "a certain global event" is a pretty good indication that the skeptics have been right all along.

And yes, separating the art from the artist can be liberating. The Witness was a bit much for me, but Braid is right up there with Journey in the pantheon of the GOAT non-AAA titles.

I'm not a big indie guy, and I feel I've done my share of 2D platformers during the 8 and 16-bit era. But man oh man, is this game something special. It took me completely by surprise when it originally came to PlayStation, and I still occasionally think about it to this very day.

@LordAinsley Why?

To me, he's a beacon of reason in a sea of lunacy.

Yeah, there is no major catastrophe in sight, but the future does look very challenging for Sony.

Hardware production costs are not falling at the pace that they did in previous generations. That means it is very unlikely that the PS5 will sell nearly as well as the PS4 at the end of the generation.

At the same time, software production costs have increased dramatically.

Now, the PC expansion strategy may be a saving grace in the short to mid-term, but it obviously has an impact on the console's appeal, further contributing to poorer sales in the long term.

And last but not least, the upcoming generation is just not as into consoles as previous generations. Kids love their phones and tablets and Roblox and so on. At that age, I was glued to my sweet Master System controller.

@Godot25 In sum, the PS5 is slightly less successful than the massively successful PS4.

Here's the irony: remember the "spend Sony out of business" quote? Well, now they'll think twice before executing on that intention, since they largely depend on PlayStation to sell their own titles.

The "flew too close to the sun" saying will never get old in this context.

@MidnightDragonDX Exactly. I guess those morons flew a little too close to the sun.

At this point, it is mind boggling that Phill Spencer is still running this ***** show. He made all the wrong bets, from Game Pass to the ABK deal. How come Satya is still buying his excuses?

I know it's kind of implied in the article, but I feel it should be made clearer: the problem is not lack of growth per se. It's lack of growth at a point where the subscribers base is much lower than it needs to be for the service to be profitable.

Game Pass is stuck at thirty something million users, whereas it must get to the hundreds of millions to become the money-making machine Microsoft envisioned.

Now, they're really between a rock and a hard place, especially after the ABK deal.

"Lock everything down, we'll deal with the economy later" - 2020.

Later is here.

This is the typical strategy of announcing something controversial, letting it fester for a while and then backtracking, only to propose it again down the road when people have acclimated to the new reality.

Not that this was Sony's original intention, but the backtracking will be valid for Helldivers 2 alone. Future games will definitely require the PSN login.

This is very similar to how Microsoft is conducting their multiplatform strategy: leak that Halo, Gears and Forza are coming to PlayStation, let the uproar take over the internet and then say "no no no, only these four". Yeah, right.

@LiamOliver Yep, PSVR2 support for RE4 came out last December. If you have the game, just download the free VR DLC. If you don't, it's 50% off right now. 😉

BTW, I should add that yes, as far as PSVR2 is concerned, nothing comes close to GT7, specially with a good racing rig. Proper next-gen stuff.

@thepaulcutts Exactly. That is, by far, the main reason.

I think gaming media is still in denial regarding how brutal the industry crash has been, and I think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg.