It really needs better marketing videos by Sony. We dont even have confirmed specs....
(I have pre ordered, but did so after watching the DF video - i was on the fence before this. Surely they cant be relying on DF to sell their console?)
@jrt87 Almost the exact same here, except i didnt have it preordered so had nothing to cancel.... Maybe Pro can fix it - it didnt seem like the CPU was that strained... then again it didnt look like the GPU was strained much either.
You could say that it 'failed to meet expectations' lol
I dont agree with the Account requirement practice on single player games (I do with multiplayer), but they must have known modding a game like this was illegal.
I originally thought this was just a complete accident after levels were 'left on the cutting room floor' during QA testing, but now I have no idea what SE are up to....
Maybe they were just too embarrassed when they realised Astro ran at locked 60fps and with an image quality that didnt look like vaseline!
@NEStalgia The PSSR does sound 1 of the more interesting upgrades - particularly given the quality of FSR.... but no, nothing will help with optimisation so ridiculously bad.
Given devs recent odd habit to favour developing for rare super powerful PCs, i wonder if the Pro's mere existance will make optimisation on base console much worse though.
In terms of Series consoles, i would say that Devs do already need to optimise for 2 consoles, so Sony could specify this as well, but also the S (while im pleased it exists to keep devs in check a bit) appears to require quite a lot of effort given its low RAM, GPU spec.
The 3/4 surprised me a little, but not much, as I think a lot of even 'casual' players have moved to performance modes, partially due to the smooth motion but maybe more because of the reaction / lag benefits it gives, thus aiding their ability to perform at a higher level. Dont know, but its a theory.
@Northern_munkey Thank you, i know it was long, but i had read a lot of comments and wanted to explain a viewpoint properly - and I quite agree about Needs over wants, and priorities - we all need them!
@NEStalgia Yeah, Sony has done their research and have set their Pro 'bar" of performance modes being better - in fact I even saw Mark Cerny's bit about 3/4 of all PS players prefer Performance etc as a firm nudge at devs. I also read your comments on Pro being in part a bandaid for devs not doing their jobs properly. Though i might be tempted to say publishers may be equally to blame, I dont disagree with your point, and i am sure i will be whinging more than a few times about 3rd party devs not following this!
I think that Sony now need to deliver this, and have a real opportunity to show they mean it this time - and there are methods i can see: Setting a standard of 60fps at say 97% of the time with no drops whatsoever below 50fps. Stuttering / frame pacing controlled too. Allowing their "pro enhanced" label only on games which fit this. Then doing more states of play (eg 1 per month minimum) which include only games that sign up for this standard giving these devs a bit of free coverage, and never covering games that dont. Cover the games coming up for launch in the next month as well as those further out. Finally, only permitting (in all areas they control like storefronts and SoP) footage/images of the modes that meet this standard - no footage of better looking quality modes used to entice players.
Maybe this will also drive how they design PS6, or yes, I may well be here begging for a PC parts shopping list in a few years time!
@xxdavidxcx87 @Ajbr8687 @NEStalgia @Northern_munkey I was reading through a lot of comments regarding PC / PS5 Pro and I thought I would post in as Im one of those people that has genuinely considered PC, but has bought (pre-ordered) PS5 Pro, and am very happy with that decision.
1) £700 is a bit more than i would like to have paid, but I do not see the price as a scam etc nor do i see it as a really good price, just a reasonable enough price that I can afford. If i wanted to go down the PC route, I could afford the outlay of a very decent machine, but would stop where value (including future proofing) diminished as the price went up.
2) Framerate is very important to me. More or less locked 60fps is a minimum, and I can see the benefit all the way up to 120fps, but anything above 90fps is really diminishing returns. If games on Pro start failing at 60fps or the PS6 isnt designed suitably - I am not returning to 30fps (or 40), and I will be done with console.
3) I really like Sony exclusive 1st party single player games - I went from Xbox360 to PS4 because of these games, and stuck with Sony for PS5 as well (though part of this was my dislike of Xboxs strategy as well). Sony putting their games on PC, and even worse their Live Service push, both push me significantly towards PC (both strategies from Sony are very dangerous to their LONG term health imo).
4) I do have a large back catalogue of games with Sony, and if I went PC, I would need to keep a PS console just to play my back catalogue. In fact, this coming year is likely going to be quite cheap for me, as i will be tempted to replay a good number of Pro enhanced games. I could not just simply escape to PC without re buying a number of games.
5) I am intelligent (not intended as bragging), and know a fair amount, but I would find putting together a gaming PC for the 1st time to be fairly daunting, at least at first. I think PC is getting better on the 'plug and play' front, but it is still a long, long way off console for now. I would still want to play through my main 120hz 4k TV, and play games via controller (not mouse/keyboard).
6) To get a new PC up and running at the level to out perform games running on PS5 Pro would have cost a lot more than the Pro. Just because I could afford it, doesnt mean i want to.
Optimisation on PS5 from 3rd party devs is an issue at the moment, but not to the same degree as PC where devs have to account for lots of different CPUs, GPUs, and set ups. Therefore I would need to account for this (and performance loss from operating systems etc), when deciding on parts to buy.
I also dont see any cost benefit in going PC and upgrading, as opposed to buying the next console every 4 years, as it isnt just the GPU i would need to upgrade, when looking long term, and potentially i could end up spending more.
I will add though that unlike some have mentioned, i cant justifiably negate part of the cost due to a work/ non work PC that is also needed in the family for another purpose that needs to be kept up to date to a suitable standard (we would still need a 2nd "boring" PC seperately).
So I will buy the Pro which unlike some I think has very good potential, hopefully stay happy with it, and take another decision come PS6 - which will mostly be based on how well Sony do on single player exclusive games, and how well they push 60fps framerates vs the price difference / personal inconvenience of moving to PC.
@EfYI Re your question about your TV, and seeing the difference.
I suppose this will come down to whether you can see the issues at present - im not trying to be rude, just practical.
Not having VRR means you are more susceptible to framerate drops sub 60fps down to 48fps (where VRR stops working anyway), the question is do you see them now? Peoples sensitivity to sub 60 varies - i cannot tolerate framerate issues, or much lower than 60 (40fps looks like an unplayable slideshow to me), but others can tolerate 30fps quality modes. If you see performance mode framerate drops in games now, and it troubles you, then the Pro should help, providing the issue isnt CPU based (and even then it may help a little bit based on rumoured specs). I suspect that games on base console will start to be less well optimised here, but this is guesswork - eg devs may start to take the line that those who care the most, will have bought Pros, or start to target pro more (some already appear to be targetting top spec PC eg BMWukon).
If you only want 30fps, then i would go with the DF advice of dont bother with Pro.
In terms of image quality, I suppose the question is do you see performance mode image quality as poor or blurry (when compared with quality modes). If so, then you will likely see a difference. As i have said, i need 60fps, so always play performance modes (and own a 120hz TV to get the extra fps where available). No solid 60fps mode means I dont buy no matter how good the game. But, i usually see a decent difference in visual quality between the 2 modes when i look out of interest, and think it would be much better if the performance mode retained its framerate and smootheness but looked like the quality mode - Pro when implemented should close or significantly improve that gap.
Ray tracing - not even going to attempt this one, as it will vary between games. Some will add to 60fps modes with varying success, others will improve quality modes (so pointless for me).
There is some decent footage on DF - the hour long video they posted midweek. I thought the footage they showed of Horizon and FF7 Rebirth to be quite telling, among others.
If people are disappointed with the graphical upgrade / price for Pro, they may well be far more disappointed with PS6's graphical upgrade and/or price - well, unless we are looking at 2029
@Member_the_game I cant really add very much as I agree with you, and its probably a very good thing that Sony seem to have considered PS5 / PS6 Back compatability as a key requirement so gone with AMD again (and created PSSR to negate the disadvantage with this choice). But I will say thank you, and I hope you enjoy your next purchase.
3rd party games I will wait for a performance review. If all good and i like what i read in normal reviews then i will pre order (if the performance reviews are out in time) / buy. Any major issues with framerate (but the game is good otherwise), and I will wait for it to be patched, then if properly patched I will wait for the next sale. If not properly patched i will skip.
@TheElectroFunky Thank you, i hope you enjoy yours too.
Im in the 'I know more than some, but less than others' category. I understood most of what he said on the 20min PS5 presentation, and looked up what I didnt! It was a big disappointment he didnt even detail CPU/GPU clock speeds, or even mention GPU Tflops (i know we have rumours) - i dont even think they included the 2TB SSD on the video! I think it was made all the worse considering the Pro's target audience.
Thank goodness for the DF video, which i thought was very good given as you say the guesswork involved.
@Member_the_game I agree with a lot of what you have said, but i also think that we are now seeing prices not coming down with time like they used to - which has nothing to do with Sony as you see it across the board.
In regards to PS6, I have read a lot of 'wait for PS6' comments (im not talking about what you have said as i found that very sensible). I think some will be very disappointed when it either launches a lot later than people expect it to, in order to get it low enough in manufacture price, or it launches in say 3yrs time but is either a) not much more powerful than PS5 Pro or b) costs about the same. Im not really sure there is a right answer for Sony here that wont annoy a large number of people.
I also wonder if part of the price is that with less profit from games, we are not seeing the start of an end to heavily subsidised hardware, but time will tell.
@Medic_alert I think the problem is how its been presented so far. The 9mins from Cerny was OK but was very short and didnt give much detail on specs (I really thought it was a waste of his time given how good his longer and more detailed PS5 20 min video was), and the games showreel was very underwhelming on this and the SoP.
I have also seen a number of comparisons of PS5 graphics modes with PRO Performance modes, which is obviously not the (best) way to sell its ability.
I watched the DF hour long video the other night and on the occasions they compared the PRO performance modes with PS5 performance modes (they also did various other comparisons) the difference was very noticeable - like seeing Series S and X side by side.
There was also an interesting piece on playstation.com blog which game some details for certain devs/games, which tells a slightly different story than the graphics mode at 60fps in some cases (eg 1 game was having a >60fps mode added, 80 i think but i cant remember all the details). Unfortunately, this should really have been presented on Video by Sony.
When you find decent footage, the Pro is certainly impressive to very impressive, even on early games which have just had Pro modes patched in, but Sony really have been bad at marketing it. PSSR may be only in its infancy, but DF also seemed very impressed by it.
I will just say though (in addition to poor marketing) that I also think we are getting some (not much, but loud) negative feedback from a small minority of people who are either Xbox fanboys, or cant/dont want to spend the money on a Pro.
@GamingFan4Lyf You know, i forget about that boost mode sometimes - must be a sign of me getting older, or it not really having been discussed in any real detail yet.
I have pre ordered a Pro, but Sony's own marketing & presentation of it has been crap! (Their marketing this whole gen has been bad - apart from a few standout game trailers like Astro bot and GOWR - but imo this is a new low).
@Nem "Dont spread false stuff" Just because it doesnt write "to be continued" on the screen, doesnt mean that my opinion is wrong, let alone "spread(ing) false stuff". My opinion has always been that SR2 was mearly a somewhat large opening chapter / prologue of LOKD. SR1 felt like a complete game that told the 1st part of a much larger story. SR2 on the other hand always felt to me (and a lot of people I discussed it with at the time, and over the years), like it ended very abruptly. A game which only really set up the main story of defiance, but was seperated from defiance because they needed Raziel to take the lead for a bit before they started jumping between the 2 in defiance. Pity we never got the end to the larger story, but maybe if the remaster goes well they may think about a sequel to defiance, but that may well depend on a remaster of defiance doing well.
@Rich86 Dont take this as gospel, but im sure i read that disk drive covers come with all versions of pro, due to size difference - same drive, different size cover.
Soul Reaver 1 & 2 remastered - I played these back when they were first released! Pity its not a full remake though (+ SR2 ends on a To be Continued). Dynasty Warriors Origins looks very interesting providing solid 60fps. Astro bot - cant get enough (more levels please).
As a few have said Pros are back in stock in the UK.
They were definitely out of stock earlier, so maybe they have released extra stock for 5pm work finish, or they are cancelling suspect scalper orders (eg if 2 or more from same address like they said not to try).
I believe how it worked is that you could join a holding 'room' "queue paused" from when they turned it on at 8.05am. Then at a few minutes past 10am (no idea why the delay), every one holding got a random place in the queue (i know it was random as the device i used got access within a minute of the queue opening, but I was not on the site that long before 10am) - once it got to your place in the queue, you could enter the site.
The 30th Pro sold out very fast. Sometime before 1.30pm they had disabled the queue, and there were still Pros showing as available, but sold out very soon after.
Within about 1 min of the queue opening I was in, could of theoretically got a 30th version but didnt really want all the extra stuff, but by the time my order was complete the 30th version was sold out - quite a scalper lure given the very limited numbers.
@GamingFan4Lyf Good points on PSSR - ever since it was leaked, i have thought this was the most exiting thing about Pro, and yes, clearly a trial run ready for an upgraded system in PS6. Recently, due to many factors including PS5 pro price, I have started thinking that PS6 may well not have a 'normal' console generation upgrade in its GPU, with PSSR(+) used to bridge that gap, and with most of the upgrades being much better CPU, RAM.
I too am very disappointed in the level of detail so far given about Pro and its games. I mentioned on another article there is some further info on various games on playstation.com blog, giving some basics on individual games and their upgrades (sometimes to multiple graphics modes), but i really want a fair bit more detail.
@liathach Yeah, its not the console i have a problem with (which i will likely get), its the information - the 9min Cerny reveal was no where near long enough and a waste of his time - he should have had much longer just to detail specs, let alone games. I liked his 20min ish PS5 video much better. The info on games so far has been more or less pointless (and doesnt help sell it), and they either need to run through each game showing improvements to give us a real taste of what it can / will do (including info on fps, and resolution parameters), or ask DF to do it - im sure they would jump at the chance. Looking at the blog i mentioned, some devs are upgrading multiple modes including 30fps modes as far as i can see, so the reality is not simply quality modes at performance mode fps.
Their marketing team seem way off here as their main target audience probably watches DF or similar videos very regularly like i do! (In fact I wont buy a game these days before a performance review unless its Sony 1st party).
Fidelity mode at performance framerate is their marketing line, but this is not even the story for 'launch' titles. If you read through the PS blog some devs detail multiple modes being updated for Pro eg both Fidelity mode with extra resolution and/or raytracing but still 30fps, alongside Performance mode with extra resolution; others detail the addition of a higher framerate mode for 120hz screens.
The console is targetted towards the sort of people who, like myself, often watch DF (etc) reviews, so needs a bit more detail. I will likely get one, but i want to know what im actually getting.
@Zemo55 No, that was just a very basic 9 min top line (unless you have seen something i havent), where they gave very little actual detail.
I would have liked to see Cerny do a full presentation of the specs, a bit more in depth than the original 20 min one he did for PS5.
When it comes to games with 'pro modes', i want them to detail what is the resolution and framerates we are going from and to, and are there any other bonuses eg draw distance, and show these differences (as best you can) on screen.
This console is being targetted mainly at enthusiasts, and i am likely going to buy one, but i wish their marketing team would take a few ideas from places like DF.
Once again, and im really going to sound like a broken record soon, but this is out for pre order in 1 day and we still dont have confirmed specs from Sony.
Though i have just read some of the enhancements planned for various games on playstation.com 's blog - it would have been much better to have had an hour long presentation on the specs and the real details of the upgrades. Considering the target market and price, this should have been seen at Sony as an obvious necessity.
Cant complain as its free, but it would be nice to get a bunch of regular levels rather than just speedruns - would love another level with the shrinking (mouse) ability.
Easily one of the best games last year. Dont know about the merchandise - I rarely bother with this sort of thing, but the game was very high quality and had some well done characters.
If they are doing this though, it seems the game was a success, which is good.
I never played the original - what i saw of the characters and story, just didnt get my interest up (/ bored me).
But, if the original on PS5 ran at 60fps, and at 4k, i just see no reason whatsoever for this unless there were problems with gross pop in, textures, or loading.
60fps locked, at 1440 upscaled well to 4k, is a luxury these days.
@UltimateOtaku91 Agree with Sony sticking to PvE, but i believe they also need to think about:
1. Quality over quantity - its what Sony does best normally and Concord wasnt helped by its averageness, but LS game push and quantity of studios taken up by it is what caused a lot of the issues imo. Maybe keep LS to a couple of specialised studios, with experienced hands, more geared towards making quality ones. Are there any old IPs they could use that wouldnt cause an outrage?
2. Leading on from that, make sure any future LS game is released in a period when at least 2 single player games are releasing. This period could be 9 months or so but they need at least trailers and firm release dates before the LS games launch - that way the LS games arent seen as a threat.
@UltimateOtaku91 Truth be told, i dont know - maybe it was the type of game ie PvP instead of PvE (tho why that should make a difference), or maybe that Helldivers 2 was a sequel to a previous game so didnt embody Jim Ryans / Sonys Live service push (or HD2 was merely announced before the Live Service push became a thing).
I just know that a lot of people saw concord as the game to 'make an example of' to send Sony a message on its Live service push, and lack of single player games. That focus now seems to have shifted to Fairgame$ (i think thats the correct spelling).
This didnt fail just because of character design etc - it could have fantastic and still failed - it failed because nobody wanted a live service game from Sony.
GOWR is easily one of the best games this generation, however most (not all) of the people who wanted to play it have done so on PS5.
All this being on PC does is keep sending the message that the current PS console is not essential - we are not quite in Xbox console marketing strategy realms yet, but we are getting close.
This is what happens when you dont have enough excludives people want to play, then you go put the ones you do have onto other systems, all while chasing subscription models....
Why cant they keep the engine and some of what is there like shooting mechanics (after all, it ran well didnt it), and use what they keep to create a decent single player shooter?
They could do the old marketing line of "we've learned from our mistakes".
Comments 795
Re: Bickering Begins Over PS5 Pro's Inability to Sell Out
It really needs better marketing videos by Sony.
We dont even have confirmed specs....
(I have pre ordered, but did so after watching the DF video - i was on the fence before this. Surely they cant be relying on DF to sell their console?)
Re: Final Fantasy 16 Receives Permanent Price Cut on PS5 as Complete Edition Launches
@jrt87
Almost the exact same here, except i didnt have it preordered so had nothing to cancel....
Maybe Pro can fix it - it didnt seem like the CPU was that strained... then again it didnt look like the GPU was strained much either.
You could say that it 'failed to meet expectations' lol
Re: Final Fantasy 16 Receives Permanent Price Cut on PS5 as Complete Edition Launches
Have they fixed that awful framerate during exploration yet?
(I know the battles were ok)
Re: Author Pulls PC God of War Ragnarok PSN Mod, Fearful of Sony's Wrath
I dont agree with the Account requirement practice on single player games (I do with multiplayer), but they must have known modding a game like this was illegal.
Re: PS5 Firmware Update Annoys with Unwanted Deluge of Ads, News Feed
RE game cards/pages - Im sure this has been the same for ages now.... like, years....
Re: 'Difficult to Comment' on Astro Bot's Square Enix Snub, Says Team Asobi
I originally thought this was just a complete accident after levels were 'left on the cutting room floor' during QA testing, but now I have no idea what SE are up to....
Maybe they were just too embarrassed when they realised Astro ran at locked 60fps and with an image quality that didnt look like vaseline!
Re: Fans Appear to Be Coming Around to PS5 Pro
@NEStalgia
The PSSR does sound 1 of the more interesting upgrades - particularly given the quality of FSR.... but no, nothing will help with optimisation so ridiculously bad.
Given devs recent odd habit to favour developing for rare super powerful PCs, i wonder if the Pro's mere existance will make optimisation on base console much worse though.
In terms of Series consoles, i would say that Devs do already need to optimise for 2 consoles, so Sony could specify this as well, but also the S (while im pleased it exists to keep devs in check a bit) appears to require quite a lot of effort given its low RAM, GPU spec.
The 3/4 surprised me a little, but not much, as I think a lot of even 'casual' players have moved to performance modes, partially due to the smooth motion but maybe more because of the reaction / lag benefits it gives, thus aiding their ability to perform at a higher level. Dont know, but its a theory.
Re: Fans Appear to Be Coming Around to PS5 Pro
@Northern_munkey
Thank you, i know it was long, but i had read a lot of comments and wanted to explain a viewpoint properly - and I quite agree about Needs over wants, and priorities - we all need them!
Re: Fans Appear to Be Coming Around to PS5 Pro
@NEStalgia
Yeah, Sony has done their research and have set their Pro 'bar" of performance modes being better - in fact I even saw Mark Cerny's bit about 3/4 of all PS players prefer Performance etc as a firm nudge at devs.
I also read your comments on Pro being in part a bandaid for devs not doing their jobs properly. Though i might be tempted to say publishers may be equally to blame, I dont disagree with your point, and i am sure i will be whinging more than a few times about 3rd party devs not following this!
I think that Sony now need to deliver this, and have a real opportunity to show they mean it this time - and there are methods i can see:
Setting a standard of 60fps at say 97% of the time with no drops whatsoever below 50fps. Stuttering / frame pacing controlled too.
Allowing their "pro enhanced" label only on games which fit this.
Then doing more states of play (eg 1 per month minimum) which include only games that sign up for this standard giving these devs a bit of free coverage, and never covering games that dont. Cover the games coming up for launch in the next month as well as those further out.
Finally, only permitting (in all areas they control like storefronts and SoP) footage/images of the modes that meet this standard - no footage of better looking quality modes used to entice players.
Maybe this will also drive how they design PS6, or yes, I may well be here begging for a PC parts shopping list in a few years time!
Re: Fans Appear to Be Coming Around to PS5 Pro
@xxdavidxcx87 @Ajbr8687 @NEStalgia @Northern_munkey
I was reading through a lot of comments regarding PC / PS5 Pro and I thought I would post in as Im one of those people that has genuinely considered PC, but has bought (pre-ordered) PS5 Pro, and am very happy with that decision.
1) £700 is a bit more than i would like to have paid, but I do not see the price as a scam etc nor do i see it as a really good price, just a reasonable enough price that I can afford. If i wanted to go down the PC route, I could afford the outlay of a very decent machine, but would stop where value (including future proofing) diminished as the price went up.
2) Framerate is very important to me. More or less locked 60fps is a minimum, and I can see the benefit all the way up to 120fps, but anything above 90fps is really diminishing returns. If games on Pro start failing at 60fps or the PS6 isnt designed suitably - I am not returning to 30fps (or 40), and I will be done with console.
3) I really like Sony exclusive 1st party single player games - I went from Xbox360 to PS4 because of these games, and stuck with Sony for PS5 as well (though part of this was my dislike of Xboxs strategy as well). Sony putting their games on PC, and even worse their Live Service push, both push me significantly towards PC (both strategies from Sony are very dangerous to their LONG term health imo).
4) I do have a large back catalogue of games with Sony, and if I went PC, I would need to keep a PS console just to play my back catalogue. In fact, this coming year is likely going to be quite cheap for me, as i will be tempted to replay a good number of Pro enhanced games. I could not just simply escape to PC without re buying a number of games.
5) I am intelligent (not intended as bragging), and know a fair amount, but I would find putting together a gaming PC for the 1st time to be fairly daunting, at least at first. I think PC is getting better on the 'plug and play' front, but it is still a long, long way off console for now. I would still want to play through my main 120hz 4k TV, and play games via controller (not mouse/keyboard).
6) To get a new PC up and running at the level to out perform games running on PS5 Pro would have cost a lot more than the Pro. Just because I could afford it, doesnt mean i want to.
Optimisation on PS5 from 3rd party devs is an issue at the moment, but not to the same degree as PC where devs have to account for lots of different CPUs, GPUs, and set ups. Therefore I would need to account for this (and performance loss from operating systems etc), when deciding on parts to buy.
I also dont see any cost benefit in going PC and upgrading, as opposed to buying the next console every 4 years, as it isnt just the GPU i would need to upgrade, when looking long term, and potentially i could end up spending more.
I will add though that unlike some have mentioned, i cant justifiably negate part of the cost due to a work/ non work PC that is also needed in the family for another purpose that needs to be kept up to date to a suitable standard (we would still need a 2nd "boring" PC seperately).
So I will buy the Pro which unlike some I think has very good potential, hopefully stay happy with it, and take another decision come PS6 - which will mostly be based on how well Sony do on single player exclusive games, and how well they push 60fps framerates vs the price difference / personal inconvenience of moving to PC.
Re: Fans Appear to Be Coming Around to PS5 Pro
@Ravix
Fantastic - i could almost hear him saying it!
Re: Fans Appear to Be Coming Around to PS5 Pro
@EfYI
No problem. Happy gaming on Pro or base PS5, whichever fits you best.
Re: Fans Appear to Be Coming Around to PS5 Pro
@EfYI
Re your question about your TV, and seeing the difference.
I suppose this will come down to whether you can see the issues at present - im not trying to be rude, just practical.
Not having VRR means you are more susceptible to framerate drops sub 60fps down to 48fps (where VRR stops working anyway), the question is do you see them now? Peoples sensitivity to sub 60 varies - i cannot tolerate framerate issues, or much lower than 60 (40fps looks like an unplayable slideshow to me), but others can tolerate 30fps quality modes.
If you see performance mode framerate drops in games now, and it troubles you, then the Pro should help, providing the issue isnt CPU based (and even then it may help a little bit based on rumoured specs).
I suspect that games on base console will start to be less well optimised here, but this is guesswork - eg devs may start to take the line that those who care the most, will have bought Pros, or start to target pro more (some already appear to be targetting top spec PC eg BMWukon).
If you only want 30fps, then i would go with the DF advice of dont bother with Pro.
In terms of image quality, I suppose the question is do you see performance mode image quality as poor or blurry (when compared with quality modes). If so, then you will likely see a difference.
As i have said, i need 60fps, so always play performance modes (and own a 120hz TV to get the extra fps where available). No solid 60fps mode means I dont buy no matter how good the game. But, i usually see a decent difference in visual quality between the 2 modes when i look out of interest, and think it would be much better if the performance mode retained its framerate and smootheness but looked like the quality mode - Pro when implemented should close or significantly improve that gap.
Ray tracing - not even going to attempt this one, as it will vary between games. Some will add to 60fps modes with varying success, others will improve quality modes (so pointless for me).
There is some decent footage on DF - the hour long video they posted midweek. I thought the footage they showed of Horizon and FF7 Rebirth to be quite telling, among others.
Hope this helped in some way.
Re: Fans Appear to Be Coming Around to PS5 Pro
If people are disappointed with the graphical upgrade / price for Pro, they may well be far more disappointed with PS6's graphical upgrade and/or price - well, unless we are looking at 2029
Re: Poll: Did You Pre-Order a PS5 Pro?
@Member_the_game
I cant really add very much as I agree with you, and its probably a very good thing that Sony seem to have considered PS5 / PS6 Back compatability as a key requirement so gone with AMD again (and created PSSR to negate the disadvantage with this choice).
But I will say thank you, and I hope you enjoy your next purchase.
Re: Star Wars Outlaws' Rescue Roadmap Provides a Snapshot of Modern PS5 Gaming
I usually pre order Sony games I want to play.
3rd party games I will wait for a performance review.
If all good and i like what i read in normal reviews then i will pre order (if the performance reviews are out in time) / buy.
Any major issues with framerate (but the game is good otherwise), and I will wait for it to be patched, then if properly patched I will wait for the next sale. If not properly patched i will skip.
Re: Poll: Did You Pre-Order a PS5 Pro?
@TheElectroFunky
Thank you, i hope you enjoy yours too.
Im in the 'I know more than some, but less than others' category. I understood most of what he said on the 20min PS5 presentation, and looked up what I didnt! It was a big disappointment he didnt even detail CPU/GPU clock speeds, or even mention GPU Tflops (i know we have rumours) - i dont even think they included the 2TB SSD on the video! I think it was made all the worse considering the Pro's target audience.
Thank goodness for the DF video, which i thought was very good given as you say the guesswork involved.
Re: Poll: Did You Pre-Order a PS5 Pro?
@Member_the_game
I agree with a lot of what you have said, but i also think that we are now seeing prices not coming down with time like they used to - which has nothing to do with Sony as you see it across the board.
In regards to PS6, I have read a lot of 'wait for PS6' comments (im not talking about what you have said as i found that very sensible). I think some will be very disappointed when it either launches a lot later than people expect it to, in order to get it low enough in manufacture price, or it launches in say 3yrs time but is either a) not much more powerful than PS5 Pro or b) costs about the same.
Im not really sure there is a right answer for Sony here that wont annoy a large number of people.
I also wonder if part of the price is that with less profit from games, we are not seeing the start of an end to heavily subsidised hardware, but time will tell.
Re: Poll: Did You Pre-Order a PS5 Pro?
@Medic_alert
I think the problem is how its been presented so far. The 9mins from Cerny was OK but was very short and didnt give much detail on specs (I really thought it was a waste of his time given how good his longer and more detailed PS5 20 min video was), and the games showreel was very underwhelming on this and the SoP.
I have also seen a number of comparisons of PS5 graphics modes with PRO Performance modes, which is obviously not the (best) way to sell its ability.
I watched the DF hour long video the other night and on the occasions they compared the PRO performance modes with PS5 performance modes (they also did various other comparisons) the difference was very noticeable - like seeing Series S and X side by side.
There was also an interesting piece on playstation.com blog which game some details for certain devs/games, which tells a slightly different story than the graphics mode at 60fps in some cases (eg 1 game was having a >60fps mode added, 80 i think but i cant remember all the details). Unfortunately, this should really have been presented on Video by Sony.
When you find decent footage, the Pro is certainly impressive to very impressive, even on early games which have just had Pro modes patched in, but Sony really have been bad at marketing it.
PSSR may be only in its infancy, but DF also seemed very impressed by it.
I will just say though (in addition to poor marketing) that I also think we are getting some (not much, but loud) negative feedback from a small minority of people who are either Xbox fanboys, or cant/dont want to spend the money on a Pro.
I pre ordered mine yesterday.
Re: PS Store Confirms Lots More PS5 Pro Enhanced Games with New Tag
@GamingFan4Lyf
You know, i forget about that boost mode sometimes - must be a sign of me getting older, or it not really having been discussed in any real detail yet.
I have pre ordered a Pro, but Sony's own marketing & presentation of it has been crap! (Their marketing this whole gen has been bad - apart from a few standout game trailers like Astro bot and GOWR - but imo this is a new low).
Re: PS Store Confirms Lots More PS5 Pro Enhanced Games with New Tag
Might need another playthrough of the fantastic Lies of P then.
Shocked that Elden Ring hasnt been confirmed considering how bad the game runs at times.
Also surprised the already amazing looking and performing GOW Ragnarok isnt on the list as its a major Sony 1st party.
Re: Talking Point: What Was Your Favourite PS5 Game from State of Play September 2024?
@Nem
"Dont spread false stuff"
Just because it doesnt write "to be continued" on the screen, doesnt mean that my opinion is wrong, let alone "spread(ing) false stuff".
My opinion has always been that SR2 was mearly a somewhat large opening chapter / prologue of LOKD.
SR1 felt like a complete game that told the 1st part of a much larger story.
SR2 on the other hand always felt to me (and a lot of people I discussed it with at the time, and over the years), like it ended very abruptly. A game which only really set up the main story of defiance, but was seperated from defiance because they needed Raziel to take the lead for a bit before they started jumping between the 2 in defiance.
Pity we never got the end to the larger story, but maybe if the remaster goes well they may think about a sequel to defiance, but that may well depend on a remaster of defiance doing well.
Re: 'PS5 Pro Is a Really Good Investment,' Argue Tech Experts After Hands-On
@Rich86
Dont take this as gospel, but im sure i read that disk drive covers come with all versions of pro, due to size difference - same drive, different size cover.
Re: Talking Point: What Was Your Favourite PS5 Game from State of Play September 2024?
Soul Reaver 1 & 2 remastered - I played these back when they were first released! Pity its not a full remake though (+ SR2 ends on a To be Continued).
Dynasty Warriors Origins looks very interesting providing solid 60fps.
Astro bot - cant get enough (more levels please).
Re: In the UK, PS5 Pro Has Already Completely Sold Out
As a few have said Pros are back in stock in the UK.
They were definitely out of stock earlier, so maybe they have released extra stock for 5pm work finish, or they are cancelling suspect scalper orders (eg if 2 or more from same address like they said not to try).
Re: In the UK, PS5 Pro Has Already Completely Sold Out
I believe how it worked is that you could join a holding 'room' "queue paused" from when they turned it on at 8.05am. Then at a few minutes past 10am (no idea why the delay), every one holding got a random place in the queue (i know it was random as the device i used got access within a minute of the queue opening, but I was not on the site that long before 10am) - once it got to your place in the queue, you could enter the site.
The 30th Pro sold out very fast.
Sometime before 1.30pm they had disabled the queue, and there were still Pros showing as available, but sold out very soon after.
Re: In the UK, PS5 Pro Has Already Completely Sold Out
Got my normal Pro this morning.
Within about 1 min of the queue opening I was in, could of theoretically got a 30th version but didnt really want all the extra stuff, but by the time my order was complete the 30th version was sold out - quite a scalper lure given the very limited numbers.
Re: All PS5 Pro Enhanced Games
@GamingFan4Lyf
Good points on PSSR - ever since it was leaked, i have thought this was the most exiting thing about Pro, and yes, clearly a trial run ready for an upgraded system in PS6.
Recently, due to many factors including PS5 pro price, I have started thinking that PS6 may well not have a 'normal' console generation upgrade in its GPU, with PSSR(+) used to bridge that gap, and with most of the upgrades being much better CPU, RAM.
I too am very disappointed in the level of detail so far given about Pro and its games.
I mentioned on another article there is some further info on various games on playstation.com blog, giving some basics on individual games and their upgrades (sometimes to multiple graphics modes), but i really want a fair bit more detail.
Re: PS5 Pro Flexes Its Muscle in Montage Trailer
@liathach
Yeah, its not the console i have a problem with (which i will likely get), its the information - the 9min Cerny reveal was no where near long enough and a waste of his time - he should have had much longer just to detail specs, let alone games. I liked his 20min ish PS5 video much better.
The info on games so far has been more or less pointless (and doesnt help sell it), and they either need to run through each game showing improvements to give us a real taste of what it can / will do (including info on fps, and resolution parameters), or ask DF to do it - im sure they would jump at the chance.
Looking at the blog i mentioned, some devs are upgrading multiple modes including 30fps modes as far as i can see, so the reality is not simply quality modes at performance mode fps.
Their marketing team seem way off here as their main target audience probably watches DF or similar videos very regularly like i do! (In fact I wont buy a game these days before a performance review unless its Sony 1st party).
Re: PS5 Pro Flexes Its Muscle in Montage Trailer
@Secryt
Fidelity mode at performance framerate is their marketing line, but this is not even the story for 'launch' titles.
If you read through the PS blog some devs detail multiple modes being updated for Pro eg both Fidelity mode with extra resolution and/or raytracing but still 30fps, alongside Performance mode with extra resolution; others detail the addition of a higher framerate mode for 120hz screens.
The console is targetted towards the sort of people who, like myself, often watch DF (etc) reviews, so needs a bit more detail. I will likely get one, but i want to know what im actually getting.
Re: PS5 Pro Flexes Its Muscle in Montage Trailer
@Zemo55
No, that was just a very basic 9 min top line (unless you have seen something i havent), where they gave very little actual detail.
I would have liked to see Cerny do a full presentation of the specs, a bit more in depth than the original 20 min one he did for PS5.
When it comes to games with 'pro modes', i want them to detail what is the resolution and framerates we are going from and to, and are there any other bonuses eg draw distance, and show these differences (as best you can) on screen.
This console is being targetted mainly at enthusiasts, and i am likely going to buy one, but i wish their marketing team would take a few ideas from places like DF.
Re: PS5 Pro Flexes Its Muscle in Montage Trailer
Once again, and im really going to sound like a broken record soon, but this is out for pre order in 1 day and we still dont have confirmed specs from Sony.
Though i have just read some of the enhancements planned for various games on playstation.com 's blog - it would have been much better to have had an hour long presentation on the specs and the real details of the upgrades.
Considering the target market and price, this should have been seen at Sony as an obvious necessity.
Re: Astro Bot's Free DLC Adds Speedrun Levels, New VIP Bots in Fall 2024
Cant complain as its free, but it would be nice to get a bunch of regular levels rather than just speedruns - would love another level with the shrinking (mouse) ability.
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Mod Removes PSN Login Requirement
A mod like this will definitely be illegal, and I imagine could potentially be somewhat dangerous.
Couldnt Sony just patch the game to break the mod?
I dont really agree with sign ins for single player (multiplayer i do), but then I dont think Sony should be porting major exclusives to PC either.
Re: State of Play Confirmed for Tomorrow, 20+ PS5, PSVR2 Games Included
Maybe actual PS5 Pro Specs.....
Re: Big Tech Cuts Made to Get Star Wars Jedi: Survivor Running on PS4
Wow, 864p!
Im sure a number of PS4 Pro games ran (much) higher than 1080p in their 30fps quality modes - im sure i remember a few around 1600p.
Re: A Massive 75% of UK Game Sales Were Digital Last Month
Is Game a 'high street presence' anymore?
My local Game shut a year or more ago, and they opened a counter in a Sports Direct store.
Re: God of War Ragnarok PC Review Bombed Over PSN Requirement
Multiplayer should have PSN requirement to allow Sony to suspend and ban cheats and toxic players, single player games should not.
That said, i played it where it should have stayed... on PS5.
Re: Become Geppetto's Puppet with Official Lies of P Merchandise
Easily one of the best games last year. Dont know about the merchandise - I rarely bother with this sort of thing, but the game was very high quality and had some well done characters.
If they are doing this though, it seems the game was a success, which is good.
Re: Days Gone PS5 Remaster Rumours Start to Snowball
I never played the original - what i saw of the characters and story, just didnt get my interest up (/ bored me).
But, if the original on PS5 ran at 60fps, and at 4k, i just see no reason whatsoever for this unless there were problems with gross pop in, textures, or loading.
60fps locked, at 1440 upscaled well to 4k, is a luxury these days.
Re: Rumour: Concord Cost $400 Million, Sony Believed It Was the 'Future of PlayStation'
@UltimateOtaku91
Agree with Sony sticking to PvE, but i believe they also need to think about:
1. Quality over quantity - its what Sony does best normally and Concord wasnt helped by its averageness, but LS game push and quantity of studios taken up by it is what caused a lot of the issues imo.
Maybe keep LS to a couple of specialised studios, with experienced hands, more geared towards making quality ones. Are there any old IPs they could use that wouldnt cause an outrage?
2. Leading on from that, make sure any future LS game is released in a period when at least 2 single player games are releasing. This period could be 9 months or so but they need at least trailers and firm release dates before the LS games launch - that way the LS games arent seen as a threat.
Just my thoughts.
Re: Rumour: Concord Cost $400 Million, Sony Believed It Was the 'Future of PlayStation'
@UltimateOtaku91
Truth be told, i dont know - maybe it was the type of game ie PvP instead of PvE (tho why that should make a difference), or maybe that Helldivers 2 was a sequel to a previous game so didnt embody Jim Ryans / Sonys Live service push (or HD2 was merely announced before the Live Service push became a thing).
I just know that a lot of people saw concord as the game to 'make an example of' to send Sony a message on its Live service push, and lack of single player games. That focus now seems to have shifted to Fairgame$ (i think thats the correct spelling).
Re: Rumour: Concord Cost $400 Million, Sony Believed It Was the 'Future of PlayStation'
This didnt fail just because of character design etc - it could have fantastic and still failed - it failed because nobody wanted a live service game from Sony.
Re: PS5 Pro Playable at Tokyo Game Show as Sony Announces Full Lineup
Dynasty warriors origins has my interest, as long as its technically competent!
Re: The Novelty of PlayStation's PC Ports Does Appear to Be Dampening
GOWR is easily one of the best games this generation, however most (not all) of the people who wanted to play it have done so on PS5.
All this being on PC does is keep sending the message that the current PS console is not essential - we are not quite in Xbox console marketing strategy realms yet, but we are getting close.
Re: Krafton Doesn't Expect Hi-Fi Rush 2 to Turn a Profit
A good news story!
(This is not a sarcastic comment on Pushsquares reporting but on the state of the industry in this area)
Re: PS5's Commanding Console Position Is Seemingly Insurmountable
This is what happens when you dont have enough excludives people want to play, then you go put the ones you do have onto other systems, all while chasing subscription models....
Sony take note.....
Re: Dev Behind PS5, PC Flop Concord Could Close as Director Steps Down
Why cant they keep the engine and some of what is there like shooting mechanics (after all, it ran well didnt it), and use what they keep to create a decent single player shooter?
They could do the old marketing line of "we've learned from our mistakes".
Re: Minecraft Is Dropping PSVR Support Early Next Year
I dont own a PSVR or 2, so dont have a horse in the race so to say, but this is a really sh#tty thing to do - and quite concerning too.
Removing functionality out of a game that people have spent money on is not good, and even low use numbers cannot justify it.
Re: Sony Priming 'Even Less Exciting' PS5 Remaster for State of Play
I was talking with someone yesterday about Knack and Knack 2 (remembering previous Sony 'Mascots'). A remake bundle wouldnt be unwelcome.